Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]

[leetic]

My replacement phone just came in! It seems like this like the power outage was but a temporary setback. I should most likely be able to make EoD now, which is nice. Anyway, catching up again.

[leetic]

Yeah, WWA was quite quick to take Delta's offer of casing me without slowing down to also consider Delta. It looks like a wolf that wants to take the most convenient path to survival, so that's another point against them.

That's incorrect, I didn't comment on the falcon post because falcon had *no* interactions at all with Delta. Rico on the other hand mentioned Delta a couple of times, mainly in context of their wagon in the West. I'm trying to rewrite and requote what I had, but I'm on my phone so sorry for the slowness.

Fair enough, but that was more directed at this post:

it doesnt take into account everything, just to highlight a disparity

can both of you run through the flipped arbiters' posts here and try case the other off of them? I'll do so myself as well but I do want to focus on partner interactions since this was a team that came into the thread with every wolf alive, so there is more there

Yes sure
I believe leetic already cased me off the arbiter interactions today btw

The "yes sure" without considering falcon does read like you're more comfortable with just voting me and wanting to be done with it than you're letting on. With that said, I definitely did not expect you to take your vote off me here, so that is something that gets me to think twice.

[leetic]

Anyway, dumping the first batch.

Wagoners*

* given the VC at the time of submitting this
NB: not sure the poll reflects the vote chronology as well, but I'll just roll with the names as they appear

falcon

Monroe
-- seems to have parked on falcon just now, despite all their posts being bark back at Epignosis. I suppose it counts as self-pres?
-- just to add to their read, minus point for their recent post aimed at Epignosis, tone still aggro defensive and not the most respectable wording towards Epignosis, either

sig
pyxxy connection: labelled it as unlikely
much of what I've noted down from sig's activity is in fact case-making on falcon, arguments being that falcon is within wolf range and that the Western night kills could show pattern of clean-up in his aid. also admits mindmeld with leetic on the night kills angle. seems fine

Master Radishes
-- for someone from East, therefore info-less on falcon, vote drop was sudden, without hint of inquiry or reading into others' takes and a bit of "nuh-uh" retort to falcon calling it opportunistic (even prodding him to vote back). not ideal elements. later more elaborate, dismissing falcon's "exasperation" as outweighed by poor tone, something I do meld with.
-- had a good impression of him otherwise - active in developing reads and opinionated on enough players and events - but this on its own is a mixed bag

Windward
-- noted her more of a Lemon wagoner for much of D3; falcon switch comes down to disliking falcon's "opportunism" rebuttal at Radishes, it seems. bit cheeky to word it as "happy to join the opportunistic train". later camps reactive attitude, in principle, towards mafia lean. again, had more interest in others, but I can see how the view on falcon might have soured in time and treat the gameplay as wolf-likely
-- activity-wise, I'd rate Windward towny. ample material, not gonna develop full read at this time.

Long Con
pyxxy connection: labelled him sussworthy
-- it is accurate that LC has suss on falcon throughout West period
-- it is also accurate that his waffle on falcon came from trusting Abigail's tone/meta read, true both during West time and during D3 here
-- as far as coming back on falcon wagon, late on seems to make a read - not agreeing with his towning claim, finding his counter-suspicions omgusey. think it's adequate
-- didn't note down any pings from LC today tbh, though overall I find him a bit puzzling. his D3 is probably the better-looking phase of his activity thus far, engaged and opinionated more on the topics, but at times I also he's tagteaming others (much "starting to see this" responses), quite the buddy dynamic with Epignosis, lighthearted banter and focused replies in equal measures. ech, probably wouldn't focus on deciphering this for now

leetic
pyxxy connection: labeled him unlikely
-- pretty much wagons falcon for the nightkill angle; dismisses falcon's defense on that as wifom; don't recall him tackling any other point about falcon
-- really conflicted about leetic overall: was my topwolf pick and vote D1, the aggro-tone was prevalent; Abigail (in West) and Dizzy (in here) mentioned that this is normal leetic; then D2 he shifts into a Pyxxy Scientist (ISO'ing interactions), drop most of the prod and poke tone, a solving attitude I shared and in turned like;
-- now? I'm seeing way less of D2. announced ISOs from West D2, did not deliver; had to defend a bit re: gifting a player who flipped wolf, don't know if that's a topic of suss. informed the merged group of his Pyxxy Science findings, that's fair. couple more reads (Nanook for instance), no definitive wording. still, really slowed down performance. puzzling.

DrWilgy
-- seems to base and bank his falcon vote on lack of townspewing alone. I'd label this a tad narrowing
-- no developed read on his activity atm. word that came to mind, upon quick scroll, was "scrambled". perhaps within expectations.

Ok so here's the first thing. Rico hedged a LOT on leetic here, but in fairness, I don't know what happened in the West Facility so I'm missing a bit of context from earlier. His read on me is here too, if either of you want to look at it. He wrote no such readlist including Delta, but he wrote an earlier one before this including Lemon and falcon so I'm gonna compare it below.

Spoiler: show

So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Distanced/bussed falcon and hedged on Lemon. Note that it was probably easier for Rico to slip out of reading Lemon because they were split for two days. He did the same to DM, who was town in the other thread.

Epignosis wrt Delta pauses me a lot toDay.

He was chief detective on case-making Delta D2 wrt pyxxy interactions (lifelining him intermittently and starting what proved pyxxy's counterwagon chance). The thing about too many townreads was also a point.

Then the Delta wagon fizzled through.

And now Epignosis comes into the merge with just that one point about the townreads.

Rico has this side mentioning of Delta by way of focusing on Epi's treatment of them, and without directly giving a read on Delta here. It's like Rico is gearing to push Epi on the basis of not following through on Delta, which I kind of think could go either way on Delta. The next mention of Delta is more direct, though.

I'm le tired.

I didn't even process Delta toDay.
Only note I had was that they noted Davos's drive-by vote on Lemon. No input.

Delta was my main pyxxy teammate profile, though. In that regard, I melded with Epig's D2 case. Signs of lifelining pyxxy into playing better and creating a cushion for a feasible counterwagon, till it proved too late. Could be.

"I didn't even process Delta toDay" is a very odd thing to say about a teammate. I mean, yes, it can be faked, but the wording is more specific than that because Rico is saying he forgot about Delta, but still hedging on the slot. This comes more often from wolves on town, than wolves on their partners.

Spoiler: show

Delta - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

I read falcon entirely off vibes and D1 I hard town read how he was vibing lol

ah, got it

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

Emoji post ^
And interestingly enough, the first time Rico interacts directly with Delta in the thread is when he's (supposedly) under post restriction. I'm not going to try to make sense of it right this second because I have a headache and trying to decode emojis isn't really helping, but it's some food for thought.
How much did Rico interact with Delta in the West thread? It sounded like there was a push there, but what about direct interactions?

Spoiler: show

leetic - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

So Seanzie was mostly tunneling Porscha D2 but he also suspected falcon and Sig.

Looking at Caitlin's EoD, she was also suspecting falcon. When two nightkills in a row point to the same person, I simply can't ignore that. [VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Has nobody stopped to consider that scum falcon killing players who SR him is about as subtle as a brick?







Fur reelz, I have way more panache than that

WIFOM

Anyway, I'm fine with a falcon vote.

Sig was CW to Porscha. I'll have to reread everything though. I didn't expect the Seanzie NK, so might have to look over his reads.

Who did you think would be NK'd?

There's min 2 wolves on my wagon IMO, and it's between leetic/sig & MR/Abi







Apologies if you're all town, but I highly doubt it

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

And another emoji post, this time reactions to leetic. Again, it's the first time Rico has interacted with leetic directly in this thread. How did it look over in West? (I feel like a broken record, repeating questions like this, I'm sorry lmao)

Spoiler: show

WindwardAway - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

Wait, there's art






Imma check it out

The submissions are great

Of the voters on my wagon, Abi & MR look the most opportunistic









[VOTE: freon] aubergine

who's Freon?

Your vote on my wagon feels opportunistic.

No it doesn't.

I like MR's response here

"Opportunistic"
is such an overused word
never good reason

It's the cheapest and easiest go-to reason for a Wolf to use as (part of) a reason to cast a vote on someone.

Town probably use it sometimes as well, it's an understandable way to feel when you're feeling besieged.

But mostly wolfy.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine I do not feel like this is opportunistic, since I've made a case on you in the past, and have you in the red zone of my rainbow list.

I use the word more when I'm town, but regardless, I'm happy to join the "opportunism" :P

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

don't think falcon's doing himself any favors right now.

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

WindwardAway - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

These people could all be overestimating their own abilities.

I'd personally love to know who these people are

You're one of them.

I rescinded cause Caitlin than rescinded my rescind cause me again

Vote: DM

ah, I see it now (Abbi back to townreading falcon)
hmm

member of the Landlords

Man, this is so tedious
Here's Rico's emoji reactions to me in case you guys wanna see it. He did talk to me directly before the emojiposting, though, when I asked him to give reads and he spit out those readlists I quoted earlier.

I think from Ricochet's ISO I lean slightly more town on Delta, because of the way it seemed like Rico tried to keep suspicion on the slot more consistently than on leetic, but he didn't push to yeet Delta the way he openly advocated to kill falcon. That sort of backhanded pushing is more likely on town.

I want to contest the idea that Ricochet wanted to lynch falcon. To be fair, I made this mistake before, but Ricochet only voted falcon after there were like seven people on the wagon and he only did it after throwing shade at all the falcon voters. Sure, he had falcon as the wolfiest between them, DM, and Lemonfairy, but when you consider that Lemonfairy was also partnered it makes sense to put the townie in the middle. I believe Ricochet's falcon vote was a reluctant move.

[leetic]

I guess my biggest question is, how likely is it that all of the Arbiters decided to avoid interacting with their last partner?

If Delta is the last arbiter, falcon managed to spend the entirety of D3 not interacting with any of their partners. He did interact with Ricochet and Delta a little bit in the previous thread though

[leetic]

I'm sure the arbiters had to shift gears after falcon flipped, but the thing is that if they intended to send someone to go deep, it would likely have been Rico, who apparently went so deep that he got NK'd lol. Unless that was just a super good vig shot.
Cause I'm guessing they didn't really expect Rico to die before Lemon, and as I said earlier, I thought Rico was one of the most ignored players from the West Facility because almost nobody was talking about his slot. I feel like it would be weird to also have Delta in that position, where Rico was mostly townread and Delta was mostly scumread, but both were treated as if they were background characters in this thread.

I do find it interesting that Ricochet basically refused to push Lemonfairy. He even basically told everyone to ignore the Lemonfairy wagon, which I thought indicted NANOOK but actually indicted Lemonfairy lol. It seems that D3 at least, they considered falcon the weak link and Lemonfairy worth saving over them. Then again, maybe Lemonfairy just had a great ability, I don't know. If the arbiters killed nutella, maybe they just did it out of spite lol.

[leetic]

As for me, idk if I really have much of a defense, I can tell you that in East thread I mostly pushed Alison and Nutella at the start, then reversed my Nutella read, happily wagoned Brad, and misyeeted Alison.

I can't exactly take your word for it since nobody's around to fact-check, although if any past statements in this thread from dead townies corroborate your claims it would be helpful if you could quote them.

[leetic]

The more I think about it, the less likely a significant disparity of 3 vs 1 wolf in one thread seems. I'm glad Delta seems to be stepping up here, I was a bit worried the game might already be lost due to them not showing up.

;_; I do apologise, been a series of unfortunate events & other things that are my fault

this is the first f3 ive been part of and being handed hammer - its not really hammer but theres the cross there so it does feel like it comes down to me - is terrifying so I want to be thorough, both from a mech standpoint and a reads one

This is my second F3 as far as I can remember, though I have been in a few F4s. First time didn't go so well; I got the wolf correct but was unable to convince the other townie in time. It's definitely stressful, especially when you can't enter the thread for large stretches of time, but fortunately that should no longer be an issue for me.

[leetic]

I've been trying to read Wilgy's posts for whatever good that does.
Because I do believe he was genuinely hunting for the last wolf, but then again it wouldn't have mattered to him who got lunched as long as it wasn't him.
He put extremely heavy suspicion on leetic two days ago and said he'd bet the game on leetic being a wolf, but spent all of yesterday pushing back against my case that he had to be Davos's owner and that I had to specifically be an arbiter to think that, and didn't really revisit leetic at all but instead pointed a weak finger at Epi, who has since flipped town.
But like, no, that was a bogus counterargument and Wilgy knew it lol. Wilgy was the only other one besides me from East Facility. And Davos flipped landlord. So that's the thing that sealed the deal for me, Wilgy never truly scumhunted me, he pushed me for being a wolf on the basis that I was pushing that he was a landlord, which he was.
This came up cause I was looking through leetic's posts from the day we yeeted Davos, and it got me wondering, how close were we to a full solve that day, as compared to yesterday? There was more pushback then, while yesterday was considerably more quiet.

Wilgy's push on me was an OMGUS, after I concluded (at F9 I believe?) that Wilgy was the most likely wolf from your side. He did the exact same thing with nutella, but said feud conveniently ended with nutella's death (and his push on you may have been the same as well). This was actually one of the reasons I wolfread Wilgy: he pulled a similar OMGUS on me on the only other wolf game of his that I've seen, and while that was eight years ago I guess old habits die hard. I am certainly mystified why he gave up a push on me to go after his sock partner, but I guess that'll have to be something I'll ask him in postgame.

[leetic]

Anyway, I'll go over Delta's interactions in this thread with flipped wolves once more. I did it yesterday, but at LyLo it's best to leave no stone unturned and all that.

[leetic]

I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

This time around I am going to be thorough, and I'll start by actually looking at the previous thread to see what the context with Porscha is. In the other thread, Delta posted a townread on Porscha based on tone, and Porscha of course flipped town. Read in that context, this can be seen as an attempt to push Abby to make a defense of falcon, and if Delta is a wolf this would be a good way to try and get heat off of falcon without getting themselves too deeply involved.

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

This vote was posted at 6:43 PM (EST, all times going forward will be in EST for convenience), seventeen minutes before EoD, and this was Delta's first vote of the day. Looking forward, here are the votes:

6:49: Lemonfairy votes DM (I believe this was their first vote of the day)
6:57: Abby votes falcon (switching off of Lemonfairy)

Working backwards, the three main wagons just before Delta's vote were:

falcon: 7 (sig, WindwardAway, Ricochet, Long Con, leetic, DarlingMonroe, DrWilgy)
DM: 5 (falcon45ca, Master Radishes, TonyStarkPrime, Epignosis, Sloonei)
Lemonfairy: 3 (NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Davos, ☆Princess Abigail☆)

Now, the one thing you can say in favor here is that Delta and Lemonfairy could have both jumped on DM to tie with falcon, as they were both online at the same time, even if Abby's switch would've still ruined their plans. However, the one thing we have to consider is that Delta's first post that day was this:

hihi o/ will be around in a bit, have caught up but will share my thoughts once I'm free

could someone from the other thread run me through how Davos approached things while split? would kinda like to look into both the sock puppets here since the fact we have two is interesting

agreed with the general idea of voting within our facilities today & will follow suit \o/

They may have felt constrained by their pledge to vote someone from their own side. They had sig as an option, and even mentioned a suspicion of sig in post 449, but ultimately chose falcon who they had not posted a suspicion of (at least not in this thread). Granted, converging can be a good idea if you want to save the CW, and to be fair Delta did point out that the DM wagon was mostly composed of voters from my side, meaning from a town perspective they did have reason to be skeptical of the DM wagon, but their mention of DM in the quoted post is a little hedgy. And you also have to consider that Delta and Lemonfairy being on DM would have resulted in three arbiters being on the wagon in a w!Delta world, and they may have thought that it would look terrible for them if falcon did end up flipping, as even their best hope is a tie. I guess the one variable is if Delta is known for bold gambits like this as wolf, but from my experience, most (non-NSM) wolves don't do this kind of thing.

As for the other part of the post, Ricochet and falcon are on opposite ends of the list, making it balanced (see Ricochet listing falcon > DM > Lemonfairy in order from wolfiest to towniest of the three main wagons. He didn't mention Lemonfairy at all, which is interesting. (For the record, he also didn't list Sabiplz, Dyslexicon, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, and Davos. Most of these are understandable since they're slankers, but Lemonfairy's absense does stand out as they were working on their "legacy" when Delta wrote this.)

[leetic]

Alright, retry, now with 100% less fucked-up formatting!

I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

This time around I am going to be thorough, and I'll start by actually looking at the previous thread to see what the context with Porscha is. In the other thread, Delta posted a townread on Porscha based on tone, and Porscha of course flipped town. Read in that context, this can be seen as an attempt to push Abby to make a defense of falcon, and if Delta is a wolf this would be a good way to try and get heat off of falcon without getting themselves too deeply involved.

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

This vote was posted at 6:43 PM (EST, all times going forward will be in EST for convenience), seventeen minutes before EoD, and this was Delta's first vote of the day. Looking forward, here are the votes:

6:49: Lemonfairy votes DM (I believe this was their first vote of the day)
6:57: Abby votes falcon (switching off of Lemonfairy)

Working backwards, the three main wagons just before Delta's vote were:

falcon: 7 (sig, WindwardAway, Ricochet, Long Con, leetic, DarlingMonroe, DrWilgy)
DM: 5 (falcon45ca, Master Radishes, TonyStarkPrime, Epignosis, Sloonei)
Lemonfairy: 3 (NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Davos, ☆Princess Abigail☆)

Now, the one thing you can say in favor here is that Delta and Lemonfairy could have both jumped on DM to tie with falcon, as they were both online at the same time, even if Abby's switch would've still ruined their plans. However, the one thing we have to consider is that Delta's first post that day was this:

hihi o/ will be around in a bit, have caught up but will share my thoughts once I'm free

could someone from the other thread run me through how Davos approached things while split? would kinda like to look into both the sock puppets here since the fact we have two is interesting

agreed with the general idea of voting within our facilities today & will follow suit \o/

They may have felt constrained by their pledge to vote someone from their own side. They had sig as an option, and even mentioned a suspicion of sig in post 449, but ultimately chose falcon who they had not posted a suspicion of (at least not in this thread). Granted, converging can be a good idea if you want to save the CW, and to be fair Delta did point out that the DM wagon was mostly composed of voters from my side, meaning from a town perspective they did have reason to be skeptical of the DM wagon, but their mention of DM in the quoted post is a little hedgy. And you also have to consider that Delta and Lemonfairy being on DM would have resulted in three arbiters being on the wagon in a w!Delta world, and they may have thought that it would look terrible for them if falcon did end up flipping, as even their best hope is a tie. I guess the one variable is if Delta is known for bold gambits like this as wolf, but from my experience, most (non-NSM) wolves don't do this kind of thing.

As for the other part of the post, Ricochet and falcon are on opposite ends of the list, making it balanced (see Ricochet listing falcon > DM > Lemonfairy in order from wolfiest to towniest of the three main wagons. He didn't mention Lemonfairy at all, which is interesting. (For the record, he also didn't list Sabiplz, Dyslexicon, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, and Davos. Most of these are understandable since they're slankers, but Lemonfairy's absense does stand out as they were working on their "legacy" when Delta wrote this.)

[leetic]

No pre-flip interactions with Ricochet aside from the post I colored in, so I'll quote something post-flip to be different. (I just realized that Delta did next to nothing D4)

Assuming Ricochet was killed by the landlords, I doubt whoever doing so did so with the intent of shooting a wolf, as I don't think anyone expressed a strong wolfread of them as of late. I mean, it is possible they had mechanical evidence against Ricochet but never confronted them in-thread as they were afraid of crossfire, but that's pure speculation at this point. They may have been killed for their reads (or another standard reason like PR hunting, although I'm not sure how wolves would do this when claiming isn't allowed (again, discounting the possibility that they had mechanical evidence)) though unfortunately their D2 material is basically unreadable.

I do kinda think Rico was assumed to be town by landlords considering they were fairly townread, at least from what I remember?

And maybe a given since majority of wolves had come from our side at that point, but probably just reaffirms the idea that majority of the wolves sit in the other thread because if Rico was killed for being townread, it was probably under the assumption of 'this thread has much more town in the remaining numbers than ours did'

at least maybe? Like I said it's probably a given with the amount of flipped wolves from our thread vs the other but it's what came to mind regardless

I dont know if all wolves from ours are gone, unsure if there would be an even split? but eh

I mean, maybe I'm just quoting this just to find something to say. Ricochet was indeed widely townread, and there weren't many people who seriously pushed him, especially not in the merged thread. So I guess I can say that this reaction to the flip doesn't look unnatural, at least.

[leetic]

davos' vote popped up on lemonfairy, dont know if that was there before ?_?

This is Delta's only mention of Lemonfairy D3. Delta did express an interest in Davos in their opener, so it's not like this post came out of nowhere. But Lemonfairy was being voted by (at least) NANOOK and Dyslexicon at the time, so it is a little interesting that they had no further comment on the wagon. And as I said before, Lemonfairy's absence from the post where they vote falcon is noticeable.

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

Chooses to basically ignore the Lemon wagon, interesting. I would not be surprised if there was at least one Arbiter among them

Is there a record of what the wagon was like at that point?

I can go back and get a manually compiled version otherwise

I was about to say that was the only pre-flip Lemonfairy interaction, but then I noticed this post from D5, which doesn't really move the needle either way. I guess I'm a little late on this one, but the wagon was NANOOK and Davos (per the post), with maybe Abby on it at that point as well? All three flipped not arbiter. I don't think Delta ever got that "manually compiled version"?

[leetic]

I looked through falcon's ISO once again, post by post, to confirm that falcon indeed does not have any D3 interactions with Delta.

[leetic]

So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

I'll probably go through Rico's posts a bit more slowly, as there is a lot of stuff that I somehow missed. Notably, Delta gets mentioned twice in this post that has little to do with them (colored orange for visibility). Both of them are interesting; Delta gets mentioned alongside flipped town Porscha as a potential pyxxy partner, though this is used to mention that falcon was the same (which mostly aligns with what was said in the previous thread, although Ricochet's look at falcon was more "there is nothing I can say here"). In the second one, DM's reads on Delta and flipped arbiter Lemon are both called vague. This is in fact the second time that Delta is paired with a flipped arbiter in one of Ricochet's posts; the first was from the previous thread when they had Delta and falcon in the lowest tier besides me. Let's quote these "vague" reads, why not:

Epi is giving very much wolf. Delta also pings. Not sure how to feel about this lemon wagon. I'd rather no.

Could be down to vote Epi, though. Oh and Wilgy too.

Well, it's just one post? Although I don't think DM posted much at that point. DM's alleged "reads" on Lemonfairy and Delta that Ricochet called out were opposite, so maybe this isn't worth looking too deeply into, but it is interesting that Ricochet completely missed the mention of Wilgy.

[leetic]

Epignosis wrt Delta pauses me a lot toDay.

He was chief detective on case-making Delta D2 wrt pyxxy interactions (lifelining him intermittently and starting what proved pyxxy's counterwagon chance). The thing about too many townreads was also a point.

Then the Delta wagon fizzled through.

And now Epignosis comes into the merge with just that one point about the townreads.

Another time when I want to quote another post for context. I believe this is the Epi post that Ricochet is referring to:

One thing about Delta.

Delta has 900 people on the good list.

I mean, it looks like Ricochet is yelling at Epi for not pushing Delta harder. Thing is, this is an argument that Epi looks wolfy, not Delta.

I'm le tired.

I didn't even process Delta toDay.
Only note I had was that they noted Davos's drive-by vote on Lemon. No input.

Delta was my main pyxxy teammate profile, though. In that regard, I melded with Epig's D2 case. Signs of lifelining pyxxy into playing better and creating a cushion for a feasible counterwagon, till it proved too late. Could be.

Interesting that the only thing about Delta that Ricochet found noteworthy was Delta's interaction with another arbiter. This is another post that I'd find a bit weird if everyone involved is an arbiter. I'm not even sure what point this is supposed to make about Lemon. The rest is a bit of hedging, but Ricochet does seem insistent on giving Epi the credit for the read, which would make more sense if Delta is non-arbiter than arbiter, as Ricochet would want towncred for the bus. The one thing that doesn't add up about that, though, is that the case is about Delta being a pyxxy's partner (aka a landlord), and I'm not sure why Ricochet would be so quick to give all the credit to a potential landlord flip to Epi (unless they really wanted to lay low?). I think I found something that doesn't make sense regardless of how Delta flips!

[leetic]

falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

Epignosis - posts
sig - posts

leetic - posts
nutella - posts
WindwardAway - posts

( )

TonyStarkPrime - posts

DarlingMonroe - posts
Delta - posts
Dyslexicon - posts
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - posts
Lemonfairy - posts
Cape90 - posts

DrWilgy - posts
Long Con - posts

Master Radishes - posts
Sloonei - posts

Next come the smiley posts, and while I probably should go over them I still really don't want to. However, this appears to be Ricochet's list of players based on falcon interactions (which we know to be entirely faked) so that is something a lot more straightforward, and sure I'll talk about WWA here too since I haven't talked about this post before. But first, Delta is in the same middle category as Lemonfairy, which is the largest grouping to boot. (For some reason, TSP gets their own category.) Windward is in a higher category, and if Ricochet wanted to put their partners in different categories it would point to Windward, but that's not something I would hold to any degree of certainty. Interestingly, the bottom two categories are free of any of Ricochet's partners; this does not appear to be typical of them (remember that they put falcon in the second to bottom category D1) so it may suggest that the arbiters were extremely wary of bussing after falcon's death.

[leetic]

band

smoky smoky smoky

Delta - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

I read falcon entirely off vibes and D1 I hard town read how he was vibing lol

ah, got it

shrug

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

burp

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

burger burger

Ricochet's post on Delta. I removed the colons from the smileys in case it would make the post any more readable. I still got nothing.

[leetic]

Quick ISOs. This list is alphabetical btw.
Delta - Cheerful and cutesy first impression. Posts have mostly neutral/even tone. Will put them at mid now and change later after I've seen everyone. Could be scum.
Epignosis - Couple of takes. Feels alright.
falcon45ca - Couple of takes. Too many spaces. Feels alright.
leetic - Strong focus on pyxxy wagon and what happened. Feels alright/mid.
Long Con - Likes some posts. Probably first slot I feel OK putting in towns.
☆Princess Abigail☆ - Fighting for wolf pelt means this is probs town Abigail? Can see a few takes from rest of posts. Might be being a bit too generous.
Ricochet - Now that I've seen these wallposts, I've realized how obnoxious mine was. Sorry. ISO feels alright/pretty good.
sig - Not much there. Feels alight/mid.
Sloonei - It's kind of alright. Although the bar is set pretty low at this point. A bit wordy.
TonyStarkPrime - I remember Dyslexicon calling Tony town at least twice (not relevant but thought I'd mention it). After ISOing, feels mid.
Scrappy Doo - Definitely better than whatever Davos is doing. Towny tone. Feels alright.

Ordered list:
Long Con
Ricochet
Princess Abigail

Epignosis
falcon
Sloonei
Scrappy Doo

leetic
Tony
sig

Delta

Something like this.
I skimmed a lot so take it with salt.

I've went over this post like a million times, I'm not even sure why I'm quoting it again. You know what, I'm not even coloring it in this time, too much effort when you can just look in my ISO. Again, obviously Delta is at the very bottom in their own category. The only thing that makes it not a complete clear is that Ricochet is high and falcon is in the middle, meaning it would be balanced in terms of high, middle, low, but why separate Delta from the other three on the bottom? I remember that nutella I believe tried to start a Delta wagon near the end of the day, but Lemonfairy never seemed interested in joining it (in fact, this is the only D3 Delta mention), granted Lemonfairy was pretty insistent in only voting someone from their own side of the thread.

[leetic]

DarlingMonroe

I am not exactly sure why falcon has the votes he does, but I wanna keep playing and helping town/civilians

"I didn't try to find out."

going to falcon bc i dont feel safe with so many votes on me

im going to work so i wont be online for eod

love yall

[VOTE: vote:falcon ] aubergine really hope its mafia

DarlingMonroe is a highly compatible teammate with Falcon.

contrast above with:

Epi is giving very much wolf. Delta also pings. Not sure how to feel about this lemon wagon. I'd rather no.

Could be down to vote Epi, though. Oh and Wilgy too.

1. OMGUS wolfread on Epignosis
2. Delta pings but no explanation
3. Saw my wagon, said they would "rather not" but didn't explain (no commitment to read)

current Monroe:
1. OMGUS vote on me (I voted them D3)
2. Pinged by me and Radishes but no explanation
3. Keeps dropping names but doesn't explain/expand on reads

Lemonfairy seems to have the same reaction to the DM post as Ricochet did, right down to not noticing the Wilgy mention! It's such a minor reference to Delta in the grand scheme of things though

[leetic]

As for Monroe, I was gonna ask what the Lime connections might be, but nutella just covered it.

nutella, what are you seeing in just four bitter posts?

squinty squint at nutella (just a little)

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

what does this mean? like the people on my wagon are OK and don't need to be pursued?
but then Ricochet says there's "nothing good looking left in there"??

Davos is probably not controlled by Ricochet's teammates?
there's a little shade but no solid conclusion

Epignosis wrt Delta pauses me a lot toDay.

He was chief detective on case-making Delta D2 wrt pyxxy interactions (lifelining him intermittently and starting what proved pyxxy's counterwagon chance). The thing about too many townreads was also a point.

Then the Delta wagon fizzled through.

And now Epignosis comes into the merge with just that one point about the townreads.

this looks unaligned for Epignosis

good thing about Ricochet's posts is that unlike falcon, who probably knew they were going to die, Ricochet was probs not expecting to be NK'd so there's no extra WIFOM to think about

I'm le tired.

I didn't even process Delta toDay.
Only note I had was that they noted Davos's drive-by vote on Lemon. No input.

Delta was my main pyxxy teammate profile, though. In that regard, I melded with Epig's D2 case. Signs of lifelining pyxxy into playing better and creating a cushion for a feasible counterwagon, till it proved too late. Could be.

Davos pretty unaligned too

--
I'm not about to decipher these smileys
if someone else wants to, pls be my guest

Despite quoting multiple posts that mention Delta, Lemonfairy doesn't once talk about Delta's chances of being partnered with Ricochet. It is also mighty convenient that Delta completely drops any "suspicion" of Delta after D3 despite having them as the wolfiest person on my side. Granted, that "read" was probably poorly-thought out, but there is no real progression here.

[leetic]

And that's everything, and once again I feel split. If you consider only their interactions with wolves, WindwardAway at least has a few votes that would have been bold coming from an arbiter, even if they are not clearing, while Delta has pretty much nothing impressive in their entire ISO. But if you look at wolves' interactions with them, it's a lot easier to believe that WindwardAway is a wolf, but going over the full context even the interactions with Delta aren't as clearing as they seem. And that's not even getting into any mechanical stuff. I was going into this believing the last wolf was like 75% WWA 25% Delta, but now I'm like 55% WWA if that.

[leetic]

falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

Epignosis - posts
sig - posts

leetic - posts
nutella - posts
WindwardAway - posts

( )

TonyStarkPrime - posts

DarlingMonroe - posts
Delta - posts
Dyslexicon - posts
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - posts
Lemonfairy - posts
Cape90 - posts

DrWilgy - posts
Long Con - posts

Master Radishes - posts
Sloonei - posts

Next come the smiley posts, and while I probably should go over them I still really don't want to. However, this appears to be Ricochet's list of players based on falcon interactions (which we know to be entirely faked) so that is something a lot more straightforward, and sure I'll talk about WWA here too since I haven't talked about this post before. But first, Delta is in the same middle category as Lemonfairy, which is the largest grouping to boot. (For some reason, TSP gets their own category.) Windward is in a higher category, and if Ricochet wanted to put their partners in different categories it would point to Windward, but that's not something I would hold to any degree of certainty. Interestingly, the bottom two categories are free of any of Ricochet's partners; this does not appear to be typical of them (remember that they put falcon in the second to bottom category D1) so it may suggest that the arbiters were extremely wary of bussing after falcon's death.

I would like to return to this point. Remember how Lemonfairy never brought up their supposed suspicion on Delta again after falcon died? Or how despite pushing Delta quite a few times D3 Ricochet only put them in the middling category? I can easily see this being a shift in the wolves' strategy after their first domino fell.

[leetic]

Damn, I rarely ever do this, but [VOTE: unvote] aubergine. Yes, I'm now more unsure of who the final wolf is than ever. But more to the point, me voting WWA puts Delta into a very comfortable position for a wolf. I believe we can get better interactions out of Delta if they are in some sort of danger. And with my replacement phone in order, I should definitely be able to make it to EoD.

[leetic]

falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

Epignosis - posts
sig - posts

leetic - posts
nutella - posts
WindwardAway - posts

( )

TonyStarkPrime - posts

DarlingMonroe - posts
Delta - posts
Dyslexicon - posts
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - posts
Lemonfairy - posts
Cape90 - posts

DrWilgy - posts
Long Con - posts

Master Radishes - posts
Sloonei - posts

Next come the smiley posts, and while I probably should go over them I still really don't want to. However, this appears to be Ricochet's list of players based on falcon interactions (which we know to be entirely faked) so that is something a lot more straightforward, and sure I'll talk about WWA here too since I haven't talked about this post before. But first, Delta is in the same middle category as Lemonfairy, which is the largest grouping to boot. (For some reason, TSP gets their own category.) Windward is in a higher category, and if Ricochet wanted to put their partners in different categories it would point to Windward, but that's not something I would hold to any degree of certainty. Interestingly, the bottom two categories are free of any of Ricochet's partners; this does not appear to be typical of them (remember that they put falcon in the second to bottom category D1) so it may suggest that the arbiters were extremely wary of bussing after falcon's death.

I would like to return to this point. Remember how Lemonfairy never brought up their supposed suspicion on Delta again after falcon died? Or how despite pushing Delta quite a few times D3 Ricochet only put them in the middling category? I can easily see this being a shift in the wolves' strategy after their first domino fell.

I'll address a couple of potential counterarguments for Ricochet. Yes, they had a restriction (or were at least faking one) that made it difficult to communicate, and their push on Delta was mainly based on Delta potentially being pyxxy's partner. However, Ricochet knew who the arbiters were and could make the list anything they wanted. Furthermore, the smiley restriction would make people less likely to question where they put people, and it's not like you can't easily argue that Delta's falcon interactions are less than impressive. If Ricochet wanted to continue the push on Delta, they very easily could have.

[WindwardAway]

Anyway, dumping the first batch.

Wagoners*

* given the VC at the time of submitting this
NB: not sure the poll reflects the vote chronology as well, but I'll just roll with the names as they appear

falcon

Monroe
-- seems to have parked on falcon just now, despite all their posts being bark back at Epignosis. I suppose it counts as self-pres?
-- just to add to their read, minus point for their recent post aimed at Epignosis, tone still aggro defensive and not the most respectable wording towards Epignosis, either

sig
pyxxy connection: labelled it as unlikely
much of what I've noted down from sig's activity is in fact case-making on falcon, arguments being that falcon is within wolf range and that the Western night kills could show pattern of clean-up in his aid. also admits mindmeld with leetic on the night kills angle. seems fine

Master Radishes
-- for someone from East, therefore info-less on falcon, vote drop was sudden, without hint of inquiry or reading into others' takes and a bit of "nuh-uh" retort to falcon calling it opportunistic (even prodding him to vote back). not ideal elements. later more elaborate, dismissing falcon's "exasperation" as outweighed by poor tone, something I do meld with.
-- had a good impression of him otherwise - active in developing reads and opinionated on enough players and events - but this on its own is a mixed bag

Windward
-- noted her more of a Lemon wagoner for much of D3; falcon switch comes down to disliking falcon's "opportunism" rebuttal at Radishes, it seems. bit cheeky to word it as "happy to join the opportunistic train". later camps reactive attitude, in principle, towards mafia lean. again, had more interest in others, but I can see how the view on falcon might have soured in time and treat the gameplay as wolf-likely
-- activity-wise, I'd rate Windward towny. ample material, not gonna develop full read at this time.

Long Con
pyxxy connection: labelled him sussworthy
-- it is accurate that LC has suss on falcon throughout West period
-- it is also accurate that his waffle on falcon came from trusting Abigail's tone/meta read, true both during West time and during D3 here
-- as far as coming back on falcon wagon, late on seems to make a read - not agreeing with his towning claim, finding his counter-suspicions omgusey. think it's adequate
-- didn't note down any pings from LC today tbh, though overall I find him a bit puzzling. his D3 is probably the better-looking phase of his activity thus far, engaged and opinionated more on the topics, but at times I also he's tagteaming others (much "starting to see this" responses), quite the buddy dynamic with Epignosis, lighthearted banter and focused replies in equal measures. ech, probably wouldn't focus on deciphering this for now

leetic
pyxxy connection: labeled him unlikely
-- pretty much wagons falcon for the nightkill angle; dismisses falcon's defense on that as wifom; don't recall him tackling any other point about falcon
-- really conflicted about leetic overall: was my topwolf pick and vote D1, the aggro-tone was prevalent; Abigail (in West) and Dizzy (in here) mentioned that this is normal leetic; then D2 he shifts into a Pyxxy Scientist (ISO'ing interactions), drop most of the prod and poke tone, a solving attitude I shared and in turned like;
-- now? I'm seeing way less of D2. announced ISOs from West D2, did not deliver; had to defend a bit re: gifting a player who flipped wolf, don't know if that's a topic of suss. informed the merged group of his Pyxxy Science findings, that's fair. couple more reads (Nanook for instance), no definitive wording. still, really slowed down performance. puzzling.

DrWilgy
-- seems to base and bank his falcon vote on lack of townspewing alone. I'd label this a tad narrowing
-- no developed read on his activity atm. word that came to mind, upon quick scroll, was "scrambled". perhaps within expectations.

Ok so here's the first thing. Rico hedged a LOT on leetic here, but in fairness, I don't know what happened in the West Facility so I'm missing a bit of context from earlier. His read on me is here too, if either of you want to look at it. He wrote no such readlist including Delta, but he wrote an earlier one before this including Lemon and falcon so I'm gonna compare it below.

Spoiler: show

So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Distanced/bussed falcon and hedged on Lemon. Note that it was probably easier for Rico to slip out of reading Lemon because they were split for two days. He did the same to DM, who was town in the other thread.

Epignosis wrt Delta pauses me a lot toDay.

He was chief detective on case-making Delta D2 wrt pyxxy interactions (lifelining him intermittently and starting what proved pyxxy's counterwagon chance). The thing about too many townreads was also a point.

Then the Delta wagon fizzled through.

And now Epignosis comes into the merge with just that one point about the townreads.

Rico has this side mentioning of Delta by way of focusing on Epi's treatment of them, and without directly giving a read on Delta here. It's like Rico is gearing to push Epi on the basis of not following through on Delta, which I kind of think could go either way on Delta. The next mention of Delta is more direct, though.

I'm le tired.

I didn't even process Delta toDay.
Only note I had was that they noted Davos's drive-by vote on Lemon. No input.

Delta was my main pyxxy teammate profile, though. In that regard, I melded with Epig's D2 case. Signs of lifelining pyxxy into playing better and creating a cushion for a feasible counterwagon, till it proved too late. Could be.

"I didn't even process Delta toDay" is a very odd thing to say about a teammate. I mean, yes, it can be faked, but the wording is more specific than that because Rico is saying he forgot about Delta, but still hedging on the slot. This comes more often from wolves on town, than wolves on their partners.

Spoiler: show

Delta - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

I read falcon entirely off vibes and D1 I hard town read how he was vibing lol

ah, got it

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

Emoji post ^
And interestingly enough, the first time Rico interacts directly with Delta in the thread is when he's (supposedly) under post restriction. I'm not going to try to make sense of it right this second because I have a headache and trying to decode emojis isn't really helping, but it's some food for thought.
How much did Rico interact with Delta in the West thread? It sounded like there was a push there, but what about direct interactions?

Spoiler: show

leetic - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

So Seanzie was mostly tunneling Porscha D2 but he also suspected falcon and Sig.

Looking at Caitlin's EoD, she was also suspecting falcon. When two nightkills in a row point to the same person, I simply can't ignore that. [VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Has nobody stopped to consider that scum falcon killing players who SR him is about as subtle as a brick?







Fur reelz, I have way more panache than that

WIFOM

Anyway, I'm fine with a falcon vote.

Sig was CW to Porscha. I'll have to reread everything though. I didn't expect the Seanzie NK, so might have to look over his reads.

Who did you think would be NK'd?

There's min 2 wolves on my wagon IMO, and it's between leetic/sig & MR/Abi







Apologies if you're all town, but I highly doubt it

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

And another emoji post, this time reactions to leetic. Again, it's the first time Rico has interacted with leetic directly in this thread. How did it look over in West? (I feel like a broken record, repeating questions like this, I'm sorry lmao)

Spoiler: show

WindwardAway - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

Wait, there's art






Imma check it out

The submissions are great

Of the voters on my wagon, Abi & MR look the most opportunistic









[VOTE: freon] aubergine

who's Freon?

Your vote on my wagon feels opportunistic.

No it doesn't.

I like MR's response here

"Opportunistic"
is such an overused word
never good reason

It's the cheapest and easiest go-to reason for a Wolf to use as (part of) a reason to cast a vote on someone.

Town probably use it sometimes as well, it's an understandable way to feel when you're feeling besieged.

But mostly wolfy.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine I do not feel like this is opportunistic, since I've made a case on you in the past, and have you in the red zone of my rainbow list.

I use the word more when I'm town, but regardless, I'm happy to join the "opportunism" :P

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

don't think falcon's doing himself any favors right now.

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

WindwardAway - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

I'd personally love to know who these people are

You're one of them.

I rescinded cause Caitlin than rescinded my rescind cause me again

Vote: DM

ah, I see it now (Abbi back to townreading falcon)
hmm

member of the Landlords

Man, this is so tedious
Here's Rico's emoji reactions to me in case you guys wanna see it. He did talk to me directly before the emojiposting, though, when I asked him to give reads and he spit out those readlists I quoted earlier.

I think from Ricochet's ISO I lean slightly more town on Delta, because of the way it seemed like Rico tried to keep suspicion on the slot more consistently than on leetic, but he didn't push to yeet Delta the way he openly advocated to kill falcon. That sort of backhanded pushing is more likely on town.

I want to contest the idea that Ricochet wanted to lynch falcon. To be fair, I made this mistake before, but Ricochet only voted falcon after there were like seven people on the wagon and he only did it after throwing shade at all the falcon voters. Sure, he had falcon as the wolfiest between them, DM, and Lemonfairy, but when you consider that Lemonfairy was also partnered it makes sense to put the townie in the middle. I believe Ricochet's falcon vote was a reluctant move.

His vote may have been reluctant, but he distanced by saying he was pro-falcon-wagon. He was still vocal about it, even if he didn't actually move to bus falcon until it was close to a done deal. I see your point, though.

[WindwardAway]

I guess my biggest question is, how likely is it that all of the Arbiters decided to avoid interacting with their last partner?

If Delta is the last arbiter, falcon managed to spend the entirety of D3 not interacting with any of their partners. He did interact with Ricochet and Delta a little bit in the previous thread though

That's part of what baffles me, but also that ALL of the Arbiters had little to no interaction with Delta. It's not even just falcon. There are mentions of Delta but hardly any attempt to talk with them. And what I normally expect is that there are some wolves who will avoid interacting with partners but others who will make an effort in that department.

[WindwardAway]

As for me, idk if I really have much of a defense, I can tell you that in East thread I mostly pushed Alison and Nutella at the start, then reversed my Nutella read, happily wagoned Brad, and misyeeted Alison.

I can't exactly take your word for it since nobody's around to fact-check, although if any past statements in this thread from dead townies corroborate your claims it would be helpful if you could quote them.

I'm pretty sure Nutella and Wilgy both brought up my history of pushes but I'll have to dig for where they talked about it. I know Nutella brought up my pushes on Alison and her in context of voting me, and took the stance that I must've bussed Brad, while Wilgy took the opposite stance and said I definitely didn't bus Brad (which is funny, because he actually knew I didn't lol). So at least that much was mentioned here, somewhere on the day before Nutella got murked.

[WindwardAway]

The more I think about it, the less likely a significant disparity of 3 vs 1 wolf in one thread seems. I'm glad Delta seems to be stepping up here, I was a bit worried the game might already be lost due to them not showing up.

;_; I do apologise, been a series of unfortunate events & other things that are my fault

this is the first f3 ive been part of and being handed hammer - its not really hammer but theres the cross there so it does feel like it comes down to me - is terrifying so I want to be thorough, both from a mech standpoint and a reads one

This is my second F3 as far as I can remember, though I have been in a few F4s. First time didn't go so well; I got the wolf correct but was unable to convince the other townie in time. It's definitely stressful, especially when you can't enter the thread for large stretches of time, but fortunately that should no longer be an issue for me.

I don't think I've made it to F3 in a while. I've gotten misyeeted as town, hammered incorrectly as town, and won as a wolf in that FoL game I linked (the one with the poison, so essentially one IC plus a second townie and me). I won an F3 as town at some point like a year or more ago, lol.

Thing is that I lost the games where I rushed into drawing conclusions based on either a tunnel or hasty solving, and I won the games where I spent the full phase reasoning out who the last wolf was and talking to both of the others, and I don't really have the full phase to spend on it here, which is why I've been trying to get as much done as I could early in the day. But with a full-length day, at the very least, the other townie can make use of the extra time even if I can't. I'm still gonna try to make it for the last hour of the day.

[WindwardAway]

I've been trying to read Wilgy's posts for whatever good that does.
Because I do believe he was genuinely hunting for the last wolf, but then again it wouldn't have mattered to him who got lunched as long as it wasn't him.
He put extremely heavy suspicion on leetic two days ago and said he'd bet the game on leetic being a wolf, but spent all of yesterday pushing back against my case that he had to be Davos's owner and that I had to specifically be an arbiter to think that, and didn't really revisit leetic at all but instead pointed a weak finger at Epi, who has since flipped town.
But like, no, that was a bogus counterargument and Wilgy knew it lol. Wilgy was the only other one besides me from East Facility. And Davos flipped landlord. So that's the thing that sealed the deal for me, Wilgy never truly scumhunted me, he pushed me for being a wolf on the basis that I was pushing that he was a landlord, which he was.
This came up cause I was looking through leetic's posts from the day we yeeted Davos, and it got me wondering, how close were we to a full solve that day, as compared to yesterday? There was more pushback then, while yesterday was considerably more quiet.

Wilgy's push on me was an OMGUS, after I concluded (at F9 I believe?) that Wilgy was the most likely wolf from your side. He did the exact same thing with nutella, but said feud conveniently ended with nutella's death (and his push on you may have been the same as well). This was actually one of the reasons I wolfread Wilgy: he pulled a similar OMGUS on me on the only other wolf game of his that I've seen, and while that was eight years ago I guess old habits die hard. I am certainly mystified why he gave up a push on me to go after his sock partner, but I guess that'll have to be something I'll ask him in postgame.

Then I'll take a look at the previous day, too, when I get the chance. About the sock puppet, I'm guessing he just gave in to your pressure to do something about it, while also trying to distance himself from it in the hopes that he could get me to flip next. Considering not everyone agreed with me that the owner was still alive, maybe he would've been successful in convincing people not to yeet him after I flipped town, but I kinda think the Davos flip sealed his fate anyway and guaranteed that he wouldn't survive endgame.

[WindwardAway]

davos' vote popped up on lemonfairy, dont know if that was there before ?_?

This is Delta's only mention of Lemonfairy D3. Delta did express an interest in Davos in their opener, so it's not like this post came out of nowhere. But Lemonfairy was being voted by (at least) NANOOK and Dyslexicon at the time, so it is a little interesting that they had no further comment on the wagon. And as I said before, Lemonfairy's absence from the post where they vote falcon is noticeable.

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

Chooses to basically ignore the Lemon wagon, interesting. I would not be surprised if there was at least one Arbiter among them

Is there a record of what the wagon was like at that point?

I can go back and get a manually compiled version otherwise

I was about to say that was the only pre-flip Lemonfairy interaction, but then I noticed this post from D5, which doesn't really move the needle either way. I guess I'm a little late on this one, but the wagon was NANOOK and Davos (per the post), with maybe Abby on it at that point as well? All three flipped not arbiter. I don't think Delta ever got that "manually compiled version"?

Well, no, that's part of why I thought the last wolf was probably Delta yesterday. He promised to go through the West thread for interactions, but he kinda stopped after ISOing pyxxy and... that was it. Didn't touch Rico or falcon. Also didn't look through Abbi's ISO, but all the landlords are flipped now anyway. I thought it was suspicious that he never touched any of the arbiters' ISOs and I said as much.

[WindwardAway]

band

smoky smoky smoky

Delta - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

I read falcon entirely off vibes and D1 I hard town read how he was vibing lol

ah, got it

shrug

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

burp

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

burger burger

Ricochet's post on Delta. I removed the colons from the smileys in case it would make the post any more readable. I still got nothing.

On a side note, it's extremely funny to read the emojis as words xD

[WindwardAway]

falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

Epignosis - posts
sig - posts

leetic - posts
nutella - posts
WindwardAway - posts

( )

TonyStarkPrime - posts

DarlingMonroe - posts
Delta - posts
Dyslexicon - posts
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - posts
Lemonfairy - posts
Cape90 - posts

DrWilgy - posts
Long Con - posts

Master Radishes - posts
Sloonei - posts

Next come the smiley posts, and while I probably should go over them I still really don't want to. However, this appears to be Ricochet's list of players based on falcon interactions (which we know to be entirely faked) so that is something a lot more straightforward, and sure I'll talk about WWA here too since I haven't talked about this post before. But first, Delta is in the same middle category as Lemonfairy, which is the largest grouping to boot. (For some reason, TSP gets their own category.) Windward is in a higher category, and if Ricochet wanted to put their partners in different categories it would point to Windward, but that's not something I would hold to any degree of certainty. Interestingly, the bottom two categories are free of any of Ricochet's partners; this does not appear to be typical of them (remember that they put falcon in the second to bottom category D1) so it may suggest that the arbiters were extremely wary of bussing after falcon's death.

I would like to return to this point. Remember how Lemonfairy never brought up their supposed suspicion on Delta again after falcon died? Or how despite pushing Delta quite a few times D3 Ricochet only put them in the middling category? I can easily see this being a shift in the wolves' strategy after their first domino fell.

I'll address a couple of potential counterarguments for Ricochet. Yes, they had a restriction (or were at least faking one) that made it difficult to communicate, and their push on Delta was mainly based on Delta potentially being pyxxy's partner. However, Ricochet knew who the arbiters were and could make the list anything they wanted. Furthermore, the smiley restriction would make people less likely to question where they put people, and it's not like you can't easily argue that Delta's falcon interactions are less than impressive. If Ricochet wanted to continue the push on Delta, they very easily could have.

Honestly, Rico posting in emojis kind of secured that people would not look too closely at his posts more than once so he could've said anything at all, to or about a partner, and I don't think it would be scrutinized as highly as it would on a day where he actually wrote with words and not emojis.

[WindwardAway]

Look, in theory (a very questionable theory) we should just shoot into the East and have a 50% chance of hitting correctly.

But if we hit a town (and I can't help but feel we will) then the survivors need to abandon the idea of wolves only being there.

This is what I'm talking about playing against the hosts.

This is a gamblers fallacy.

Maybe they split shit up evenly.

Maybe they didn't.

You don't know.

Unless you do know.

Fuck the camps and get to work on who is bad.

Actually, I think this is probably why Epi got killed last night.
He never focused on whether the wolves would be evenly split between the threads, over who he thought was actually wolfiest.

Im looking through some stuff while I have a couple minutes free

[WindwardAway]

I mean, I do think he would've been likely to reconsider his reads today, but he would not necessarily have taken the angle that I'm more likely to be a wolf because of the thread split. And whichever of you two is a wolf, likely knew he'd be harder to convince to vote me just on that premise.

[WindwardAway]

The only players who'd kill Nutella are Epi/Leetic. Leetic has been pretty much the most vocal on both chain yeeting WWA and I, and that Davos should be ignored.

Davos - Leetic aligned. Leetic keeps suggesting we take alternative routes to solving this and keeps treating this slot with confidence that it can be solved this way.

Delta - would be incriminated, much more likely to make a kill on west that removes detractors.

Epi - COULD make the kill, but killing Nutella and then not focusing on WWA doesn't make sense. W Epi could in fact choose to not take the path of least resistance, but I probably just lose to that. (also took the lingerie, I wanted that.)

Leetic - WOULD have made the kill. Went from suspecting MR as remaining arbiter, to voting me in contrary to suspicion on MR, and only really moving back to MR on the justification of self voting. Nutella and MR both were the east side players that were vocal on that the PoE being east was incorrect. Leetic's play keeps us constrained to the East PoE and has consistently ignored/minimized Davos. (also they grabbed the weapon option provided today, which is probably minor but i don't like it anyways.)

Sig - Has no reason to make the kill. Was already advocating suspicion on both threads, so hitting Nutella doesn't really advance that at all and removes someone who never really advocated against them.

WWA - would be incriminated, can still be wolf but didn't make the Nutella kill.

Went back to actually look at this, and yeah, leetic is right, Wilgy did a very elaborate OMGUS. He voted leetic pretty much right after leetic said Wilgy and I had to be the last wolves and made this post.

[leetic]

Look, in theory (a very questionable theory) we should just shoot into the East and have a 50% chance of hitting correctly.

But if we hit a town (and I can't help but feel we will) then the survivors need to abandon the idea of wolves only being there.

This is what I'm talking about playing against the hosts.

This is a gamblers fallacy.

Maybe they split shit up evenly.

Maybe they didn't.

You don't know.

Unless you do know.

Fuck the camps and get to work on who is bad.

Actually, I think this is probably why Epi got killed last night.
He never focused on whether the wolves would be evenly split between the threads, over who he thought was actually wolfiest.

Im looking through some stuff while I have a couple minutes free

Hmm, maybe. If Delta is the arbiter, maybe they came into this expecting me to vote you. I'm not sure how w!WWA would even want to approach this after killing Epi. The most likely scenario would be an attempted frame up on Delta, but eh.

[leetic]

Actually uhhh 360 no scope [VOTE: windwardaway] aubergine

I just got bored enough to finally go back to reading some east facility isos and I feel better about wilgy and worse about wind again

Think wilgy posts dont quite make sense with either team but wind fits as landlord (and radish could still be the arbiter)

Wilgy did basically just never interact with brad yeah but idk just a vibe that i could easily see him as just uninformed while i could see your brad comments as a light bus

Read Brad's response to me, though
He didn't even reply directly to me and just went like, oh man, I thought you were town as soon as I voted him

You are the only non-flipped (non-me) name in his town list and I think it's decently likely he included his teammate actually. Put you second. I mean either way that gets read is just gonna be confbiased but I don't see why his response to you can't be a teammate interaction

i feel decently confident it's just wilgy and radishes

What makes you think WWA is least likely? I think it's obvious they aren't an arbiter but nothing I've seen clears them from being a landlord

Wind is possible, I just think she's been the towniest. I did scumread her at the beginning of the game in her back and forth with Alison, so it's in the back of my mind that it's possible she bounced back from that and has been fooling me since

Here are nutella's posts on WWA's activity in the previous thread I could find. The idea that WWA was paired with Brad turned out to be false, but there's still the other point, but it's not elaborated much so I'm not sure how much I can get from it

[leetic]

I swear, Delta better show up for EoD.

[Delta]

I swear, Delta better show up for EoD.

IM HERE ;O;

here from now until EOD

[leetic]

I swear, Delta better show up for EoD.

IM HERE ;O;

here from now until EOD

Are you going to be doing any of the analysis that you said you'd do?

[Delta]

Yeah, this is bad. "If Davos flips town [...] one of these names is mafia."

Because mafia would want a day wasted.
My point is, we CAN get the mafia that way, but we have to take the risk.
It's fine though, I'll flip today.

Legacy is sig and Epi are town, I believe mafia are within Wilgy/Delta/leetic and Davos if it's a separate slot, less likely Delta than the others.

Thanks for a great game, and I hope you guys pull through

I keep coming back to this because it's like
It was so close to deadline, you had the extra vote on you, you didnt self pres etc so its like
I dont know what to make of it because when I say you towntold hard, I mean this

I dunno it's such a trivial thing to be weighing on my mind but it's still like
eh

It's stuck with me a lil I guess

I need to double check something though since you had the extra vote on you from the event and I cant remember if it's something Davos took part in or not

[Delta]

I swear, Delta better show up for EoD.

IM HERE ;O;

here from now until EOD

Are you going to be doing any of the analysis that you said you'd do?

yepyep, rereading both of you

[Delta]

nevermind no one picked food

helpful x_x

[leetic]

Yeah, this is bad. "If Davos flips town [...] one of these names is mafia."

Because mafia would want a day wasted.
My point is, we CAN get the mafia that way, but we have to take the risk.
It's fine though, I'll flip today.

Legacy is sig and Epi are town, I believe mafia are within Wilgy/Delta/leetic and Davos if it's a separate slot, less likely Delta than the others.

Thanks for a great game, and I hope you guys pull through

I keep coming back to this because it's like
It was so close to deadline, you had the extra vote on you, you didnt self pres etc so its like
I dont know what to make of it because when I say you towntold hard, I mean this

I dunno it's such a trivial thing to be weighing on my mind but it's still like
eh

It's stuck with me a lil I guess

I need to double check something though since you had the extra vote on you from the event and I cant remember if it's something Davos took part in or not

WWA and Davos crossvoted and were the main wagons, so it's not really a matter of refusing to self-pres

[Delta]

For full transparency, I'm leaning voting WWA about 70:30

I wanna get a full writeup of my thoughts for about 2 hours to hammer to allow time for it to process but that's where my head is at
I just want to be sure and things like that quote give me pause about that but I'm tallying pros/cons as I go

[Delta]

Yeah, this is bad. "If Davos flips town [...] one of these names is mafia."

Because mafia would want a day wasted.
My point is, we CAN get the mafia that way, but we have to take the risk.
It's fine though, I'll flip today.

Legacy is sig and Epi are town, I believe mafia are within Wilgy/Delta/leetic and Davos if it's a separate slot, less likely Delta than the others.

Thanks for a great game, and I hope you guys pull through

I keep coming back to this because it's like
It was so close to deadline, you had the extra vote on you, you didnt self pres etc so its like
I dont know what to make of it because when I say you towntold hard, I mean this

I dunno it's such a trivial thing to be weighing on my mind but it's still like
eh

It's stuck with me a lil I guess

I need to double check something though since you had the extra vote on you from the event and I cant remember if it's something Davos took part in or not

WWA and Davos crossvoted and were the main wagons, so it's not really a matter of refusing to self-pres

They unvoted the post after which put them back into the rand

I know people, myself included, had talked about the puppet having no weighting to their vote though, so it couldve been risk/reward kind of thing but eh

[leetic]

Yeah, this is bad. "If Davos flips town [...] one of these names is mafia."

Because mafia would want a day wasted.
My point is, we CAN get the mafia that way, but we have to take the risk.
It's fine though, I'll flip today.

Legacy is sig and Epi are town, I believe mafia are within Wilgy/Delta/leetic and Davos if it's a separate slot, less likely Delta than the others.

Thanks for a great game, and I hope you guys pull through

I keep coming back to this because it's like
It was so close to deadline, you had the extra vote on you, you didnt self pres etc so its like
I dont know what to make of it because when I say you towntold hard, I mean this

I dunno it's such a trivial thing to be weighing on my mind but it's still like
eh

It's stuck with me a lil I guess

I need to double check something though since you had the extra vote on you from the event and I cant remember if it's something Davos took part in or not

WWA and Davos crossvoted and were the main wagons, so it's not really a matter of refusing to self-pres

They unvoted the post after which put them back into the rand

I know people, myself included, had talked about the puppet having no weighting to their vote though, so it couldve been risk/reward kind of thing but eh

Hmm. That is similar to WWA unvoting in the crossvote earlier this phase. If WWA is a wolf, they've definitely taken some risks to get this far. Although in this case, WWA could have just thought they'd have a better shot of surviving a crossvote with Delta than with me and knew they could always put their vote back anyway with little risk, but it is still worth keeping in mind.

[Delta]

Yeah, this is bad. "If Davos flips town [...] one of these names is mafia."

Because mafia would want a day wasted.
My point is, we CAN get the mafia that way, but we have to take the risk.
It's fine though, I'll flip today.

Legacy is sig and Epi are town, I believe mafia are within Wilgy/Delta/leetic and Davos if it's a separate slot, less likely Delta than the others.

Thanks for a great game, and I hope you guys pull through

I keep coming back to this because it's like
It was so close to deadline, you had the extra vote on you, you didnt self pres etc so its like
I dont know what to make of it because when I say you towntold hard, I mean this

I dunno it's such a trivial thing to be weighing on my mind but it's still like
eh

It's stuck with me a lil I guess

I need to double check something though since you had the extra vote on you from the event and I cant remember if it's something Davos took part in or not

WWA and Davos crossvoted and were the main wagons, so it's not really a matter of refusing to self-pres

They unvoted the post after which put them back into the rand

I know people, myself included, had talked about the puppet having no weighting to their vote though, so it couldve been risk/reward kind of thing but eh

Hmm. That is similar to WWA unvoting in the crossvote earlier this phase. If WWA is a wolf, they've definitely taken some risks to get this far. Although in this case, WWA could have just thought they'd have a better shot of surviving a crossvote with Delta than with me and knew they could always put their vote back anyway with little risk, but it is still worth keeping in mind.

I think the approach both of you have taken is part of why I'm leaning WWA as well, weirdly enough

I've said coming into today I think mech points to WWA being mafia, and both of you unvoted after I did

I can understand whichever of you is wolf playing it safe, but I do also think in your position, you either double down on voting WWA or you jump ship and push me. You dont really need to take a step back I guess?

It's not a huge point but something I'm keeping in mind

[Delta]

I do need to read your wolf game though since there's something in particular I want to check