Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]

[Delta]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

[leetic]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

Why did you vote falcon over sig D3, and why did you barely interact with Lemonfairy?

[Delta]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

Why did you vote falcon over sig D3, and why did you barely interact with Lemonfairy?

Sig wasnt a viable vote, would've been stuck on a vanity vote, and as I had said that day I didnt think DM was mafia so not voting Falcon there was 1.) a throwaway vote and 2.) leaving someone I was shielding to die there

I was one of the later votes, I cant remember if the final one or not. but made no sense to rock up and vanity vote when there were 2 distinct wagons and one was someone I was somewhat shielding

& as for Lemon, I kinda just dont think I saw her around much? Considering my own time constraints, I dont think we really crossed paths

[leetic]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

Why did you vote falcon over sig D3, and why did you barely interact with Lemonfairy?

Sig wasnt a viable vote, would've been stuck on a vanity vote, and as I had said that day I didnt think DM was mafia so not voting Falcon there was 1.) a throwaway vote and 2.) leaving someone I was shielding to die there

I was one of the later votes, I cant remember if the final one or not. but made no sense to rock up and vanity vote when there were 2 distinct wagons and one was someone I was somewhat shielding

& as for Lemon, I kinda just dont think I saw her around much? Considering my own time constraints, I dont think we really crossed paths

You were both around at EoD, they posted their "legacy" right before you voted

[Delta]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

Why did you vote falcon over sig D3, and why did you barely interact with Lemonfairy?

Sig wasnt a viable vote, would've been stuck on a vanity vote, and as I had said that day I didnt think DM was mafia so not voting Falcon there was 1.) a throwaway vote and 2.) leaving someone I was shielding to die there

I was one of the later votes, I cant remember if the final one or not. but made no sense to rock up and vanity vote when there were 2 distinct wagons and one was someone I was somewhat shielding

& as for Lemon, I kinda just dont think I saw her around much? Considering my own time constraints, I dont think we really crossed paths

You were both around at EoD, they posted their "legacy" right before you voted

when it came to EOD, I showed up with about.. half hour on the clock? so even then my main priority was just throw thoughts out n vote

In the following days, we werent really in thread around each other & I think I came back at one point and saw they were shot? Thats about it

[leetic]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

Why did you vote falcon over sig D3, and why did you barely interact with Lemonfairy?

Sig wasnt a viable vote, would've been stuck on a vanity vote, and as I had said that day I didnt think DM was mafia so not voting Falcon there was 1.) a throwaway vote and 2.) leaving someone I was shielding to die there

I was one of the later votes, I cant remember if the final one or not. but made no sense to rock up and vanity vote when there were 2 distinct wagons and one was someone I was somewhat shielding

& as for Lemon, I kinda just dont think I saw her around much? Considering my own time constraints, I dont think we really crossed paths

You were both around at EoD, they posted their "legacy" right before you voted

when it came to EOD, I showed up with about.. half hour on the clock? so even then my main priority was just throw thoughts out n vote

In the following days, we werent really in thread around each other & I think I came back at one point and saw they were shot? Thats about it

That's not entirely true, I believe you asked about the wagon formation on Lemonfairy before they flipped?

[Delta]

You said last night as you unvoted that you thought you could get better responses out of me when I'm in danger

It's not. quite a situation of me being in danger right now, but if you want responses fire away while I compile a few things

Why did you vote falcon over sig D3, and why did you barely interact with Lemonfairy?

Sig wasnt a viable vote, would've been stuck on a vanity vote, and as I had said that day I didnt think DM was mafia so not voting Falcon there was 1.) a throwaway vote and 2.) leaving someone I was shielding to die there

I was one of the later votes, I cant remember if the final one or not. but made no sense to rock up and vanity vote when there were 2 distinct wagons and one was someone I was somewhat shielding

& as for Lemon, I kinda just dont think I saw her around much? Considering my own time constraints, I dont think we really crossed paths

You were both around at EoD, they posted their "legacy" right before you voted

when it came to EOD, I showed up with about.. half hour on the clock? so even then my main priority was just throw thoughts out n vote

In the following days, we werent really in thread around each other & I think I came back at one point and saw they were shot? Thats about it

That's not entirely true, I believe you asked about the wagon formation on Lemonfairy before they flipped?

I honestly cant remember, looking back I asked about Davos showing up on the vote but that's about it, maybe after they flipped? But shrug

[leetic]

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

Chooses to basically ignore the Lemon wagon, interesting. I would not be surprised if there was at least one Arbiter among them

Is there a record of what the wagon was like at that point?

I can go back and get a manually compiled version otherwise

I was referring to this post specifically

[Delta]

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

Chooses to basically ignore the Lemon wagon, interesting. I would not be surprised if there was at least one Arbiter among them

Is there a record of what the wagon was like at that point?

I can go back and get a manually compiled version otherwise

I was referring to this post specifically

OH

Sorry I mustve missed that ;_;

It still kinda stands of 'I wasnt really in thread with them' & was trying to give myself jobs to do to get back into the swing of things

Looking back at it now as well, I believe everyone from the wagon flipped? Went back to check & I think Ricochet covered the wagon in a post themselves

[leetic]

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

Chooses to basically ignore the Lemon wagon, interesting. I would not be surprised if there was at least one Arbiter among them

Is there a record of what the wagon was like at that point?

I can go back and get a manually compiled version otherwise

I was referring to this post specifically

OH

Sorry I mustve missed that ;_;

It still kinda stands of 'I wasnt really in thread with them' & was trying to give myself jobs to do to get back into the swing of things

Looking back at it now as well, I believe everyone from the wagon flipped? Went back to check & I think Ricochet covered the wagon in a post themselves

Everyone who hasn't flipped was on the falcon wagon, yes.

Also two hours 'til EoD, so be mindful.

[Delta]

I have to close in an hour. Will try to finish a scan of the Darling wagoners.

Lemon wagoners probably not worth pursuing. And, in just two lines, there's nothing good looking left in there. I recall no serious push(es) from Nanook - just an instavote on sabi, due to lingering post-wolfflip, and then a tag vote right after Dizzy back and forth. Davos doesn't sound like making any trustworthy contribution all game and just plants votes. I trusted Scrappy more in West, I'd come back to whether Davos can be trusted, but not this phase, I suppose.

Chooses to basically ignore the Lemon wagon, interesting. I would not be surprised if there was at least one Arbiter among them

Is there a record of what the wagon was like at that point?

I can go back and get a manually compiled version otherwise

I was referring to this post specifically

OH

Sorry I mustve missed that ;_;

It still kinda stands of 'I wasnt really in thread with them' & was trying to give myself jobs to do to get back into the swing of things

Looking back at it now as well, I believe everyone from the wagon flipped? Went back to check & I think Ricochet covered the wagon in a post themselves

Everyone who hasn't flipped was on the falcon wagon, yes.

Also two hours 'til EoD, so be mindful.

I know, thank you for the heads up \o/

I'm finishing some stuff up that I wanted to check, mainly wanted to read your approach to your recent wolfgame and in particular how you handled lategame

from there I think I'll give some final thoughts & then place my own vote, I know both of you unvoted but would like to just. lay out everything n whatnot

[WindwardAway]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

[leetic]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

Which direction would you say you're leaning in at the moment?

[WindwardAway]

Actually uhhh 360 no scope [VOTE: windwardaway] aubergine

I just got bored enough to finally go back to reading some east facility isos and I feel better about wilgy and worse about wind again

Think wilgy posts dont quite make sense with either team but wind fits as landlord (and radish could still be the arbiter)

Wilgy did basically just never interact with brad yeah but idk just a vibe that i could easily see him as just uninformed while i could see your brad comments as a light bus

Read Brad's response to me, though
He didn't even reply directly to me and just went like, oh man, I thought you were town as soon as I voted him

You are the only non-flipped (non-me) name in his town list and I think it's decently likely he included his teammate actually. Put you second. I mean either way that gets read is just gonna be confbiased but I don't see why his response to you can't be a teammate interaction

i feel decently confident it's just wilgy and radishes

What makes you think WWA is least likely? I think it's obvious they aren't an arbiter but nothing I've seen clears them from being a landlord

Wind is possible, I just think she's been the towniest. I did scumread her at the beginning of the game in her back and forth with Alison, so it's in the back of my mind that it's possible she bounced back from that and has been fooling me since

Here are nutella's posts on WWA's activity in the previous thread I could find. The idea that WWA was paired with Brad turned out to be false, but there's still the other point, but it's not elaborated much so I'm not sure how much I can get from it

You can actually find a lot of Nutella's case on me in the N0 thread, as well as my (erroneous) case on her. In the East thread I dropped my push on her entirely cause it was pointed out to me that I misattributed one of her posts as directed toward me when it was in fact not directed toward anyone in particular. I did not, however, drop my push on Alison, and because Alison did nothing to defend herself when she was wagoned and didn't make much of an appearance when Brad was wagoned, my push there shifted to pushing her as partnered with Brad after his flip. Nutella maintained that Alison was town, dropped her scumread on me, and didn't pick it up again until in this thread.

Idk if this helps at all.

[Delta]

right

I guess it comes down to this:
- Mech speculation: I've mentioned it already, the split feels very even and it makes very little sense to punish the Arbiters for the Landlords having more to them. The rest of the split has been bang on even; one puppet per thread, one ITP per thread, and other numbers have evened up - 2 landlords each side (+ puppet.) I dont see the Arbiters not following this pattern because the split of town/wolves in general was always going to be uneven, but having a significantly worse distribution for one team compared to the other is pretty rough. I feel like the idea that Lemon had been alone should have been floated by now if that was the reality of it, but rereading early game with people talking about the push on Lemon, I.. dont think their play in the other facility sounds like a solo wolf? Obviously I cant confirm that since thread split but as an add-on.

- Approach over the game: Looking at both your interactions with flipped Arbiters, it feels very polar opposites. With WWA, early game whenever addressing an arbiter specifically, they would ping and try to level with them, same isnt really seen for anyone else. They're kinda on and off with pushing them, and with Lemon and talking about them later game, the idea that Lemon was on their own is only really brought up when they're prodded to do so. With Leetic, they're beating down Falcon from the word go, voting him even on the first page and throwing pressure onto him the day he died, while also showing a lot of distaste for Abi's bus on Pyxxy once she flipped. I dont think Leetic fits the role of final wolf when, for them to be final wolf, they have kinda fought their own team unnecessarily, compared to WWA who seemed to give opportunities to engage with their team and build interactions with them.

So while I am terrified of doing this, I think
[VOTE: WINDWARDAWAY] aubergine
is where I land

With the added note that both of you have played brilliantly & it's very tough for me to vote, I'm not confident but I think this is my final answer

[Delta]

The main thing I was after from a w!Leetic game is seeing if they could replicate their usual town game of getting the ball rolling, since I know that was an issue for them D1 where they were shading a lot of content being posted N0. That game.. did kinda give me the idea that they can. I dont think they're a massively polarised player regardless but iirc they are getting back into forum mafia fairly recently so I do think there would be some sort of rust there. Might come back to bite me, especially since my early game was v heavy on w!Leetic, but overall I think how they approached the Arbiters feels less pairing than how WWA had

@WindwardAway you're around for the last hour, right? I've got a vote down on you, just. Level with me and talk for a bit, if you're town convince me I'm wrong here

[WindwardAway]

Yeah, this is bad. "If Davos flips town [...] one of these names is mafia."

Because mafia would want a day wasted.
My point is, we CAN get the mafia that way, but we have to take the risk.
It's fine though, I'll flip today.

Legacy is sig and Epi are town, I believe mafia are within Wilgy/Delta/leetic and Davos if it's a separate slot, less likely Delta than the others.

Thanks for a great game, and I hope you guys pull through

I keep coming back to this because it's like
It was so close to deadline, you had the extra vote on you, you didnt self pres etc so its like
I dont know what to make of it because when I say you towntold hard, I mean this

I dunno it's such a trivial thing to be weighing on my mind but it's still like
eh

It's stuck with me a lil I guess

I need to double check something though since you had the extra vote on you from the event and I cant remember if it's something Davos took part in or not

As I said before, and to disagree with what Epi said about it, I thought if the wagons were close between Davos and me and there was going to be resistance to flipping them, my flip would be more informative. Yes, it was risky, but look where we are now. The thread still hasn't seen my flip, so you can't know that I'm town. If I had flipped on that day instead of Davos, you'd see me flip town and then you'd have to think about why I was so certain that Davos was a key information flip. Not only did it give us info on the landlords (and ultimately, Wilgy being Davos's puppetmaster), but I also pointed out that there had to be a wolf voting Davos, definitely to get themselves out of the immediate PoE but likely also to distance from the slot. And I was right, Wilgy was the wolf there. I also said that there could be a second wolf in leetic, that was not my immediate thought going into yesterday or even going out of yesterday, but I revisited it today because it came into question again when I was reviewing the lead-up to the Davos yeet.

[leetic]

I waited a little because I wanted to see how WWA would react to Delta's vote. Not responding in eight minutes is... a decision I guess. Watch them respond as I post this

[leetic]

Anyway, the one thing that still has me doubting if it was Delta was that they were roleblocked N7. I mean, surely a wolf would have noticed that, especially since they were the only one on their team? Maybe it was a sign of a lack of motivation, but still.

[Delta]

man I dont get how I can look at their post just before Davos died and think its very townie there but struggle to see it in f3. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's not. I dont know

I do hope that's the right choice but I really am not sure on things lmao.

[leetic]

Anyway, the one thing that still has me doubting if it was Delta was that they were roleblocked N7. I mean, surely a wolf would have noticed that, especially since they were the only one on their team? Maybe it was a sign of a lack of motivation, but still.

Like, if I was a wolf and noticed that I was roleblocked because I didn't vote for several phases, I would be much more proactive about voting in the next phase. Delta would have almost certainly been aware of the roleblock as a wolf.

[Delta]

just skimming everything one final time x_x

[leetic]

Come on @WindwardAway. Where the hell are you?

[WindwardAway]

The main thing I was after from a w!Leetic game is seeing if they could replicate their usual town game of getting the ball rolling, since I know that was an issue for them D1 where they were shading a lot of content being posted N0. That game.. did kinda give me the idea that they can. I dont think they're a massively polarised player regardless but iirc they are getting back into forum mafia fairly recently so I do think there would be some sort of rust there. Might come back to bite me, especially since my early game was v heavy on w!Leetic, but overall I think how they approached the Arbiters feels less pairing than how WWA had

@WindwardAway you're around for the last hour, right? I've got a vote down on you, just. Level with me and talk for a bit, if you're town convince me I'm wrong here

As I said earlier when Epi cased me, I don't have a counterargument for my interactions with the Arbiters. I obviously had interactions with and pinged them to get their thoughts, and in fact you would see even more of me pinging Lemonfairy in the East thread (because she kept dumping her readlist and then disappearing almost immediately after). I will not deny that I'd ping a partner to engage with me in the thread if I felt like it.

What I can say, though, is that my play leading up to today doesn't line up with the optimal wolf strategy in my position. I'm the only one left in East thread, mechanical balance is very obviously pointing against me, and the only player who believed we should completely disregard the number of wolves per Facility died last night, which would've had to have been my kill if I'm the last wolf. Additionally it would've been in my interest to leave Davos alive until endgame if I thought it didn't actually pose a threat but wanted an easy cop-out, and/or to leave Wilgy alive (who was very obviously the landlord from my pov) and team up with him on yeeting someone in the West yesterday in the hopes I could instead get Wilgy yeeted today — because everyone thought Wilgy was more likely to flip wolf than I was.

Of course all of what I say here is up to anyone to decide if they believe it, because I can't prove whether I would've done these things or not. But I've been aware that I've been in the PoE for days, and i tried to clear my slot so that the rest of you could solve around it and remember my legacy by unvoting at the end of the day when Davos ended up flipping.

[WindwardAway]

Come on @WindwardAway. Where the hell are you?

Replying to Delta lol

[WindwardAway]

I waited a little because I wanted to see how WWA would react to Delta's vote. Not responding in eight minutes is... a decision I guess. Watch them respond as I post this

I'm typing on my phone, I thought it would take less than 8 minutes but apparently not what's the pressure, anyway? I don't think I need to rush to react to it.

[leetic]

I waited a little because I wanted to see how WWA would react to Delta's vote. Not responding in eight minutes is... a decision I guess. Watch them respond as I post this

I'm typing on my phone, I thought it would take less than 8 minutes but apparently not what's the pressure, anyway? I don't think I need to rush to react to it.

Well, it's less than 25 minutes to EoD, so we don't have much time

[WindwardAway]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

Which direction would you say you're leaning in at the moment?

Leaning back toward thinking it's you tbh
It's a combination of a couple factors. Quite a bit of it is actually more like, "I don't think Delta would do this as a wolf", though, which admittedly is not reasoning against you so much as it is reasoning for Delta being town.

[leetic]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

Which direction would you say you're leaning in at the moment?

Leaning back toward thinking it's you tbh
It's a combination of a couple factors. Quite a bit of it is actually more like, "I don't think Delta would do this as a wolf", though, which admittedly is not reasoning against you so much as it is reasoning for Delta being town.

What specific things do you think Delta wouldn't do as wolf? Do you have a lot of meta on them?

[WindwardAway]

I waited a little because I wanted to see how WWA would react to Delta's vote. Not responding in eight minutes is... a decision I guess. Watch them respond as I post this

I'm typing on my phone, I thought it would take less than 8 minutes but apparently not what's the pressure, anyway? I don't think I need to rush to react to it.

Well, it's less than 25 minutes to EoD, so we don't have much time

Yeah I know but I want to respond to things
And I also have some conflicting thoughts that ive been trying to sort out that are bugging the hell out of me

[Delta]

The main thing I was after from a w!Leetic game is seeing if they could replicate their usual town game of getting the ball rolling, since I know that was an issue for them D1 where they were shading a lot of content being posted N0. That game.. did kinda give me the idea that they can. I dont think they're a massively polarised player regardless but iirc they are getting back into forum mafia fairly recently so I do think there would be some sort of rust there. Might come back to bite me, especially since my early game was v heavy on w!Leetic, but overall I think how they approached the Arbiters feels less pairing than how WWA had

@WindwardAway you're around for the last hour, right? I've got a vote down on you, just. Level with me and talk for a bit, if you're town convince me I'm wrong here

As I said earlier when Epi cased me, I don't have a counterargument for my interactions with the Arbiters. I obviously had interactions with and pinged them to get their thoughts, and in fact you would see even more of me pinging Lemonfairy in the East thread (because she kept dumping her readlist and then disappearing almost immediately after). I will not deny that I'd ping a partner to engage with me in the thread if I felt like it.

What I can say, though, is that my play leading up to today doesn't line up with the optimal wolf strategy in my position. I'm the only one left in East thread, mechanical balance is very obviously pointing against me, and the only player who believed we should completely disregard the number of wolves per Facility died last night, which would've had to have been my kill if I'm the last wolf. Additionally it would've been in my interest to leave Davos alive until endgame if I thought it didn't actually pose a threat but wanted an easy cop-out, and/or to leave Wilgy alive (who was very obviously the landlord from my pov) and team up with him on yeeting someone in the West yesterday in the hopes I could instead get Wilgy yeeted today — because everyone thought Wilgy was more likely to flip wolf than I was.

Of course all of what I say here is up to anyone to decide if they believe it, because I can't prove whether I would've done these things or not. But I've been aware that I've been in the PoE for days, and i tried to clear my slot so that the rest of you could solve around it and remember my legacy by unvoting at the end of the day when Davos ended up flipping.

At what point do you consider things endgame, Davos died right before Wilgy ?_? eh

I raised the point of 'why are you offering to die' earlier on in the game because I think a wolf does need to show that kind of nonchalance around dying especially when being corner in by POE.

Epi also trusted both of you, and had been far more engaged than I was. He would've done far better here than what I think I'm doing now. That's part of what I attribute his kill to, rather than his views on things. Because he townread both of you and wouldve had a blank slate here regardless.

Fuck. I really dont know lmao

[Delta]

I waited a little because I wanted to see how WWA would react to Delta's vote. Not responding in eight minutes is... a decision I guess. Watch them respond as I post this

I'm typing on my phone, I thought it would take less than 8 minutes but apparently not what's the pressure, anyway? I don't think I need to rush to react to it.

Well, it's less than 25 minutes to EoD, so we don't have much time

Yeah I know but I want to respond to things
And I also have some conflicting thoughts that ive been trying to sort out that are bugging the hell out of me

Post the thoughts, dont focus on sorting them, would just like to hear them here

[Delta]

Windward not getting a vote down in response is terrifying

[leetic]

If we're going by the theory that arbiters kill on even nights, then nutella would have been the last kill. I do find it interesting that WWA has framed the nutella kill as being because nutella was willing to look for wolves on my side, while acknowledging nutella's suspicion of them in other posts (to be fair, nutella suspected Wilgy as well at various points). Again, the lack of mechanical information means I can't consider this too heavily

[WindwardAway]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

Which direction would you say you're leaning in at the moment?

Leaning back toward thinking it's you tbh
It's a combination of a couple factors. Quite a bit of it is actually more like, "I don't think Delta would do this as a wolf", though, which admittedly is not reasoning against you so much as it is reasoning for Delta being town.

What specific things do you think Delta wouldn't do as wolf? Do you have a lot of meta on them?

I've only ever seen Delta as town and 3p, a handful of games including mashes which are probably not the strongest on meta.
One thing I don't think Delta would do as a wolf, or more generally that I don't think A Wolf would do, is float around in the thread so late in the game without that urgency to look like they're solving. I said this earlier but it's still on my mind. A wolf before the Wilgy flip would want to solve the other wolf team, and a wolf today would want to un-PoE themselves by looking productive. I feel pretty bad in saying this but I really do not get the impression Delta is attempting to look productive at all They skipped or procrastinating doing a lot of the analysis work they said they'd do earlier and they didn't really seem like they felt the need to make up for it. I mean, they were just ok with it like oh well it didn't get done, time to move on to the next thing. And I rarely see that from wolves.

[leetic]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

Which direction would you say you're leaning in at the moment?

Leaning back toward thinking it's you tbh
It's a combination of a couple factors. Quite a bit of it is actually more like, "I don't think Delta would do this as a wolf", though, which admittedly is not reasoning against you so much as it is reasoning for Delta being town.

What specific things do you think Delta wouldn't do as wolf? Do you have a lot of meta on them?

I've only ever seen Delta as town and 3p, a handful of games including mashes which are probably not the strongest on meta.
One thing I don't think Delta would do as a wolf, or more generally that I don't think A Wolf would do, is float around in the thread so late in the game without that urgency to look like they're solving. I said this earlier but it's still on my mind. A wolf before the Wilgy flip would want to solve the other wolf team, and a wolf today would want to un-PoE themselves by looking productive. I feel pretty bad in saying this but I really do not get the impression Delta is attempting to look productive at all They skipped or procrastinating doing a lot of the analysis work they said they'd do earlier and they didn't really seem like they felt the need to make up for it. I mean, they were just ok with it like oh well it didn't get done, time to move on to the next thing. And I rarely see that from wolves.

I mean, that depends on the player doesn't it? I've seen wolves like NANOOK who slanked to endgame

[WindwardAway]

The main thing I was after from a w!Leetic game is seeing if they could replicate their usual town game of getting the ball rolling, since I know that was an issue for them D1 where they were shading a lot of content being posted N0. That game.. did kinda give me the idea that they can. I dont think they're a massively polarised player regardless but iirc they are getting back into forum mafia fairly recently so I do think there would be some sort of rust there. Might come back to bite me, especially since my early game was v heavy on w!Leetic, but overall I think how they approached the Arbiters feels less pairing than how WWA had

@WindwardAway you're around for the last hour, right? I've got a vote down on you, just. Level with me and talk for a bit, if you're town convince me I'm wrong here

As I said earlier when Epi cased me, I don't have a counterargument for my interactions with the Arbiters. I obviously had interactions with and pinged them to get their thoughts, and in fact you would see even more of me pinging Lemonfairy in the East thread (because she kept dumping her readlist and then disappearing almost immediately after). I will not deny that I'd ping a partner to engage with me in the thread if I felt like it.

What I can say, though, is that my play leading up to today doesn't line up with the optimal wolf strategy in my position. I'm the only one left in East thread, mechanical balance is very obviously pointing against me, and the only player who believed we should completely disregard the number of wolves per Facility died last night, which would've had to have been my kill if I'm the last wolf. Additionally it would've been in my interest to leave Davos alive until endgame if I thought it didn't actually pose a threat but wanted an easy cop-out, and/or to leave Wilgy alive (who was very obviously the landlord from my pov) and team up with him on yeeting someone in the West yesterday in the hopes I could instead get Wilgy yeeted today — because everyone thought Wilgy was more likely to flip wolf than I was.

Of course all of what I say here is up to anyone to decide if they believe it, because I can't prove whether I would've done these things or not. But I've been aware that I've been in the PoE for days, and i tried to clear my slot so that the rest of you could solve around it and remember my legacy by unvoting at the end of the day when Davos ended up flipping.

At what point do you consider things endgame, Davos died right before Wilgy ?_? eh

I raised the point of 'why are you offering to die' earlier on in the game because I think a wolf does need to show that kind of nonchalance around dying especially when being corner in by POE.

Epi also trusted both of you, and had been far more engaged than I was. He would've done far better here than what I think I'm doing now. That's part of what I attribute his kill to, rather than his views on things. Because he townread both of you and wouldve had a blank slate here regardless.

Fuck. I really dont know lmao

Endgame I think was basically triggered by us yeeting Davos. If we hadn't done that and we yeeted someone who was town, we would maybe unwittingly be in endgame depending on how Davos counted. Or I guess we could've yeeted Wilgy too. But I meant kind of generally, one Arbiter and one landlord is sort of endgaming already for the wolf teams. So there would be a lot of planning ahead I think.

Correction, Epi would've had a blank slate if it were exactly leetic/me here in LyLo with him. He would've had to force his slate to clear if the remaining players were you and one of leetic+me because it would challenge his established reads, but there's always a bias there from before.
.

[leetic]

This is definitely nerve-wracking, and I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame. Nevertheless, I must make a decision, so [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine. Ultimately, it's just Delta's roleblock that I simply cannot get past. Further, Delta's play here is typical of townies that wolves prefer to keep around for endgame. It's nervewracking, but I want to give WWA one last chance to sway me.

[WindwardAway]

Yesss I made it back for EoD! Gonna look at some stuff but I'm open to realtiming as well.

Which direction would you say you're leaning in at the moment?

Leaning back toward thinking it's you tbh
It's a combination of a couple factors. Quite a bit of it is actually more like, "I don't think Delta would do this as a wolf", though, which admittedly is not reasoning against you so much as it is reasoning for Delta being town.

What specific things do you think Delta wouldn't do as wolf? Do you have a lot of meta on them?

I've only ever seen Delta as town and 3p, a handful of games including mashes which are probably not the strongest on meta.
One thing I don't think Delta would do as a wolf, or more generally that I don't think A Wolf would do, is float around in the thread so late in the game without that urgency to look like they're solving. I said this earlier but it's still on my mind. A wolf before the Wilgy flip would want to solve the other wolf team, and a wolf today would want to un-PoE themselves by looking productive. I feel pretty bad in saying this but I really do not get the impression Delta is attempting to look productive at all They skipped or procrastinating doing a lot of the analysis work they said they'd do earlier and they didn't really seem like they felt the need to make up for it. I mean, they were just ok with it like oh well it didn't get done, time to move on to the next thing. And I rarely see that from wolves.

I mean, that depends on the player doesn't it? I've seen wolves like NANOOK who slanked to endgame

Right
Idk, maybe I'm falsely ascribing an assumption to Delta? But with the Nanook example, I don't think I've ever seen him promise to do solving work and then not do it. He would just... not promise anything in the first place. I just mean that wolves tend to be more conscious of what might get them read as disingenuous.

[Delta]

This is definitely nerve-wracking, and I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame. Nevertheless, I must make a decision, so [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine. Ultimately, it's just Delta's roleblock that I simply cannot get past. Further, Delta's play here is typical of townies that wolves prefer to keep around for endgame. It's nervewracking, but I want to give WWA one last chance to sway me.

I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame.

I'm with you there

;_;

[WindwardAway]

This is definitely nerve-wracking, and I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame. Nevertheless, I must make a decision, so [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine. Ultimately, it's just Delta's roleblock that I simply cannot get past. Further, Delta's play here is typical of townies that wolves prefer to keep around for endgame. It's nervewracking, but I want to give WWA one last chance to sway me.

I'm not going to convince you much on Delta if I don't think Delta is wolfing, though

[leetic]

This is definitely nerve-wracking, and I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame. Nevertheless, I must make a decision, so [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine. Ultimately, it's just Delta's roleblock that I simply cannot get past. Further, Delta's play here is typical of townies that wolves prefer to keep around for endgame. It's nervewracking, but I want to give WWA one last chance to sway me.

I'm not going to convince you much on Delta if I don't think Delta is wolfing, though

If you're that certain, why haven't you voted yet?

[Delta]

This is definitely nerve-wracking, and I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame. Nevertheless, I must make a decision, so [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine. Ultimately, it's just Delta's roleblock that I simply cannot get past. Further, Delta's play here is typical of townies that wolves prefer to keep around for endgame. It's nervewracking, but I want to give WWA one last chance to sway me.

I'm not going to convince you much on Delta if I don't think Delta is wolfing, though

fuck

god I dont know this is. so fucking tough lmao

it's these kinds of posts that catch me out because in the same spot I'd do the same and its just

wfjnfiknskmfa

[WindwardAway]

I completely agree with leetic that Delta seems like too easy of a solution, but at the same time it makes it easy for a wolf to feign indecision for that reason. So I'm voting leetic.

[VOTE: leetic] aubergine

[Delta]

is it time to start suggesting let it rand

even though it cant rand but
shh

[WindwardAway]

This is definitely nerve-wracking, and I know if I'm wrong I'm gonna be yelled at by everyone in the postgame. Nevertheless, I must make a decision, so [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine. Ultimately, it's just Delta's roleblock that I simply cannot get past. Further, Delta's play here is typical of townies that wolves prefer to keep around for endgame. It's nervewracking, but I want to give WWA one last chance to sway me.

I'm not going to convince you much on Delta if I don't think Delta is wolfing, though

If you're that certain, why haven't you voted yet?

Because LyLo is terrifying and my generally crippling inability to make decisions is way worse in LyLo than it is any other time lol

[WindwardAway]

But also idk because I'm trying to convince MYSELF that I'm making the right vote
And it feels like wherever I vote it's gonna magically be wrong regardless because I do NOT have a good success streak in LyLo

[Delta]

no matter what both of you have been great & I'm very very sorry if wrong on this

It's very close & I'm going to kick myself if it's Leetic but

I dont know anymore lmao. I'm stressed

[WindwardAway]

Tbh I'd rather get mislunched with the correct solve than incorrectly hammer the townie between you
And that makes me feel very weird

[Delta]

my brain is telling me switch to leetic

I dont know