The Syndicate

Alright, fair enough. I'm just saying, in case it wasn't clear, that it is not unreasonable at all to be frustrated. I myself am frustrated. I had fun, a lot of fun, but there's definitely a niggling sense that it was unfair. I can't help but wonder how you yourself would feel, given the amount of time and energy you put into this game, especially when you should have been putting it into your PhD, if at this stage it was revealed that you never had a chance, and that it was all futile. And in defense of Chris, I feel partly responsible for this situation, because I did goad him throughout the game. But yeah, I can't condone anything he's said to you guys.

Keys i am so sorry I was cyber after you defended me so much. I wanted to be civ so much then.

keys56000000000 wrote:Alright, fair enough. I'm just saying, in case it wasn't clear, that it is not unreasonable at all to be frustrated. I myself am frustrated. I had fun, a lot of fun, but there's definitely a niggling sense that it was unfair. I can't help but wonder how you yourself would feel, given the amount of time and energy you put into this game, especially when you should have been putting it into your PhD, if at this stage it was revealed that you never had a chance, and that it was all futile. And in defense of Chris, I feel partly responsible for this situation, because I did goad him throughout the game. But yeah, I can't condone anything he's said to you guys.

Being frustrated is perfectly understandable and happens all the time. It has happened to me. It has happened to Alex. Sometimes people overreact. The point is, we ALL reached out to Chris and said "we understand that you're frustrated. We're here to help. But please try to restrain yourself in the thread because you're upsetting people." No one accused him or reprimanded him. We reached out as friends to try to help and listen. As a response, he basically said "I'll do whatever I want and you can't stop me." I hope you understand how few options we have to deal with players like that.

Keys, I understand, but please:

MovingPictures07 wrote: If you or anyone else wants to discuss this further or has a problem with how I or anyone else handled this situation, IT GOES IN PM. Not here. Let this be made known.

Thank you.

Let's please not have any other words regarding the Chris matter in this thread. I don't want to further derail any postgame discussion. I understand why you brought it up, keys, and I don't mind letting everything become transparent, but I don't want to cause this discussion to permeate publicly any further when it doesn't need to.

Llama, I appreciate your further clarification, and echo the sentiment, but this goes for us henceforth as well.

I don't think the civs never had a chance, I just think there was an incredible amount of luck for Hedgeowl to get to the point when the recruitment team became so powerful.

Also, it's actually pretty funny that almost all of the team's roles were not generally known or hinted at in this game, yet we avoided serious suspicion almost completely.

I wanted Snow Dog to be civ so bad me and MP had a rank bet which I was sure I'd lose. And did. Change it, MP, I always keep my bets even if the other person has forgotten!

zeek wrote:I don't think the civs never had a chance, I just think there was an incredible amount of luck for Hedgeowl to get to the point when the recruitment team became so powerful.

Also, it's actually pretty funny that almost all of the team's roles were not generally known or hinted at in this game, yet we avoided serious suspicion almost completely.

I wanted Snow Dog to be civ so bad me and MP had a rank bet which I was sure I'd lose. And did. Change it, MP, I always keep my bets even if the other person has forgotten!

Haha, yes!!! The sig and rank bets! How could I forget?

zeek and keys, you owe me.

Snow Dog wrote:Keys i am so sorry I was cyber after you defended me so much. I wanted to be civ so much then.

Haha, that's ok. All the evidence pointed to you, I just didn't want to believe it. I underestimated your intelligence and for that I'm sorry. It was only when you asked me not to defend you anymore that I started to doubt myself, started thinking you were feeling sorry for me for being wrong, lol!

In the end I'm more pleased than displeased with my instincts. I knew there was something off about Juliets and Gotrees, who seemed to be cruising in the background, unexplained and unchallenged. Hedgeowl, who was playing a perfect, unquestionable game, had to be hiding something. I'm sure I even detected a change in MP, from working with me to humouring me, but I didn't want to believe it, because I considered it impossible. Note to self: make less assumptions, trust instincts more.

keys56000000000 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Keys i am so sorry I was cyber after you defended me so much. I wanted to be civ so much then.

Haha, that's ok. All the evidence pointed to you, I just didn't want to believe it. I underestimated your intelligence and for that I'm sorry. It was only when you asked me not to defend you anymore that I started to doubt myself, started thinking you were feeling sorry for me for being wrong, lol!

In the end I'm more pleased than displeased with my instincts. I knew there was something off about Juliets and Gotrees, who seemed to be cruising in the background, unexplained and unchallenged. Hedgeowl, who was playing a perfect, unquestionable game, had to be hiding something. I'm sure I even detected a change in MP, from working with me to humouring me, but I didn't want to believe it, because I considered it impossible. Note to self: make less assumptions, trust instincts more.

I found it really interesting how all of the Cybers practically defended or refused to say anything about their teammates. I can't say I've seen something where NO bus throwing at all occurred like that in a while.

Actually, you did do pretty good, keys. I had to keep you off of a Hedgeowl lynch for a while since I got recruited when I died, and Chris saying Hedgeowl didn't make sense really helped in that regard.

And wow, nice on detecting the change in me! I tried my absolute hardest to still seem like I was my same old civvie self, but it was difficult.

It was easy to lie about being recruited since it seemed totally logical that the Doctor could never be recruited. I was totally shocked when I was!

Who killed me on N4?

If Team Recruit actually thought I was The Master, why use the lynch switch on me? You wouldn't have been able to use that to make a case against me, because all the post would say is that no one was lynched, and nobody would have known that it was switched off of Bass.

Turnip Head wrote:If Team Recruit actually thought I was The Master, why use the lynch switch on me? You wouldn't have been able to use that to make a case against me, because all the post would say is that no one was lynched, and nobody would have known that it was switched off of Bass.

We had The Master narrowed down to like three people, and I felt it also caused chaos and confusion, drawing the thread away from any of us for another cycle. Twofold reasoning.

And on the off chance you were The Master, then we didn't want anyone to think it would have been switched off Bass, since we then would have recruited you.

Also I knew Epi was bad since around the Sabie lynch, but I didn't have time to get him lynched since we were so busy lynching all of the other baddies/ losing

Okay, keys, I'll be a bit nice with you on the double or nothing bet on Snow Dog's alignment. Would you rather have your sig changed to the content I desire or your rank? :P

I don't think that sigbet was valid, you knew he was bad.

keys56000000000 wrote:I don't think that sigbet was valid, you knew he was bad.

Ah, good counterpoint, but untrue! At the time I made the bet it was actually still totally conjecture. Snowy didn't get recruited until N12 and we didn't have Epig at that time either since we nabbed him after N10.

But if you really want to fight it, fine. I wasn't going to make it anything too terrible.

Although I could be mistaken... but I'm almost positive it was before we had Epig since I was still trying to figure out who was pegged into what role, and that was also the same exact time I made the rank bet with zeek on whether Snowy was bad since he thought he was civ too.

Ah-ha, it was N10! So we didn't know until D11. :P

But if you really don't want to, I understand, haha. I was just having fun.

Zeppelin rules is already such a good sig haha

fingersplints wrote:Zeppelin rules is already such a good sig haha

Can't argue with that!

That's part of why I asked whether he wanted sig or rank. Lol.

Isn't that not only a sentiment of Zeppelin's awesomeness but a quote of Otto Mann as he gets swept away after the school bus crashes into a river in The Simpsons? If so, keys, I salute your reference.

To my lovely hosts, I had so much fun this game. No matter any of the conflicts or what not. Nothing took away from my fun. I loved my role. So many nights I had to stay up late to find something to check, which meant I had to have some drinks. I thank you for that. Some much of my fun was trying to find something. I did set up SVS because I wanted to check her out. Roxy I caught because I couldn't check her statement to get a real result. I only did check Enrique because of page 19 (I think it was page 19). I would have suspected him for that even if I hadn't checked him.

I can't believe I was right about Dom, it was just a complete gut feeling. He was playing such a good game I figured he was protecting a role like that. Dom left nothing to check that I could find.

As my first time as a LD (that I can remember), the role works, it works well, it works tricky like. It was awesome.

I'm sorry that civvies didn't win, they played hard this game. The game was fun, that's a win for me.

Black Rock wrote:I can't believe I was right about Dom, it was just a complete gut feeling. He was playing such a good game I figured he was protecting a role like that. Dom left nothing to check that I could find.

No way!!!! We suspected Dom as a possibility but in the end were convinced to redirect Dom's kill to you based on the fact that we thought you had checked him.

Also, props to zeek for figuring out with confidence that you were the LD.

I had been trying to figure out who it was and wasn't sure, and then he made an argument that was completely eye-opening. If it wasn't for pegging you in that role, the game would have gone totally differently. I was SUPER afraid you were going to check me the night that you died since I had been throwing around LD-able statements like "I haven't been recruited" and "I don't have BTSC". So our redirect of Dom's kill to you was to figure out if Dom really was The Master and to get rid of you posthaste.

So thank you, zeek, on that one!

MovingPictures07 wrote:Although I could be mistaken... but I'm almost positive it was before we had Epig since I was still trying to figure out who was pegged into what role, and that was also the same exact time I made the rank bet with zeek on whether Snowy was bad since he thought he was civ too.

I knew I was going to lose that bet :P But a small part of me thought Epi and Snowy seemed too obviously teammates for it to be true. You are right though, our bet was just after keys bet you I believe.

Linki - it was a team effort

Oh, Chris. Thanks for trusting in me. I have no idea why you did but thank you. I thought I was playing real civvie like and it felt nice to be trusted.

linki: I guess my gut got me killed.

Linki 2: I wouldn't have checked you because I was sure your role wasn't able to be recruited. I was so wrong about that.

LET ME POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MovingPictures07 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:I don't think that sigbet was valid, you knew he was bad.

Ah, good counterpoint, but untrue! At the time I made the bet it was actually still totally conjecture. Snowy didn't get recruited until N12 and we didn't have Epig at that time either since we nabbed him after N10.

But if you really want to fight it, fine. I wasn't going to make it anything too terrible.

Well at the least, you had more info than I did, were in a position to make a more informed guess having a bunch of potential suspects accounted for, and I was running under the assumption that you were unrecruitable and thus 100% trustworthy, so I can't help but feel like this is adding insult to the injury of how ludicrous this game was, but ok. Signature/rank, your choice.

linki: Yes, my sig is a Simpsons reference.

linki: I too would like to post

Fair enough, keys! How about this: I'll try something out and if you don't like it, I'll get rid of it. It's no problem.

i thought I did a good job of not suspecting sabie or bass. I didn't even mention Epi I don't think. I wanted it to seem too obvious i was a cyber to be true. And NOT just a bad player.

And yes keys, i felt terribly guilty, and thats why I told you not to defend me.

And MP it was actually true that at the start of the game i felt a bit overwhelmed and was kind of out of practise with mafia.

Snow Dog wrote:
And MP it was actually true that at the start of the game i felt a bit overwhelmed and was kind of out of practise with mafia.

Yeah, I figured.

Ah I had forgotten that BR's statement was what convinced us. How cruel it was have used Dom to kill her then.

I owe a big thank you to Chris actually for my continued survival. His conviction that I was not the recruiter because I voted last for MM and secured his lynch really helped. I would say that after the way Chris completely fooled me as the serial killer in SFU and toyed with me all game that we are even. Mm being rezzed and pretending he was recruited continued the charade. We saw no reason to enlighten anyone either.

I spent three days playing a computer in chess trying to get a better "losing" result than MP. Turned out he didnt have time to play anyway, but I finally beat the game with 20 minutes to spare. It was a well earned recruitment of the Doctor.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:
And MP it was actually true that at the start of the game i felt a bit overwhelmed and was kind of out of practise with mafia.

Yeah, I figured.

I have to admit it was a bit tough arguing with you and I'm sorry i lost my temper with you. It seemed you weren't listening to me.

Turns out you had been and didn't care. :P

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:
And MP it was actually true that at the start of the game i felt a bit overwhelmed and was kind of out of practise with mafia.

Yeah, I figured.

I have to admit it was a bit tough arguing with you and I'm sorry i lost my temper with you. It seemed you weren't listening to me.

Turns out you had been and didn't care. :P

Hey, not a problem man, I understand. I wasn't listening, you're right.

Ranks have been updated.

The doctor's bitch...lol

MovingPictures07 wrote:Ranks have been updated.

Fair is fair :P This is not the end! A future bet will reverse this!

zeek wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Ranks have been updated.

Fair is fair :P This is not the end! A future bet will reverse this!

Snow Dog wrote:The doctor's bitch...lol

You owe me one Snowy :P

Splints' Bitch. Yeah, that's about right.


To borrow a footbaling term, Hedgeowl is my man-of-the-match. I think she could have rode that performance to a mexican standoff and come out on top. There was literally nothing to quote with which to make a case on. I remember looking at her posts, dumbfounded, thinking she was a genius. Some Walter White shit right there, Hedgeowl, a very well done.

Also Dom was fantastic. He was our hide-in-plain-sight star this game.

keys56000000000 wrote:Splints' Bitch. Yeah, that's about right.


To borrow a footbaling term, Hedgeowl is my man-of-the-match. I think she could have rode that performance to a mexican standoff and come out on top. There was literally nothing to quote with which to make a case on. I remember looking at her posts, dumbfounded, thinking she was a genius. Some Walter White shit right there, Hedgeowl, a very well done.

Also Dom was fantastic. He was our hide-in-plain-sight star this game.

Hahaha, glad you like it.

I agree completely with Hedge and Dom. Totally well done.

Long Con wrote:

fingersplints wrote:LC - I thought you were playing a really good game. I was going to target you N3 for it, but couldn't bring myself to do it.

I appreciate that!

MovingPictures07 wrote:LC, I agree you played an awesome game as 1.0 and 2.0. Honestly, I think if you remove the recruiting element completely from the game, civvies would have very likely had a win here.

No doubt about it! We just needed to take out Hedge early and it was unquestionably the Civvies' game.

I have to learn from this game to inform my baddie game, clearly being a little quieter makes a world of difference. Maybe I should miss the first couple of days of every game I play, and spend the next couple 'catching up'.

I seem to remember you getting called out for being quiet early on as well while we were still playing Monty python. Trying to save our sinking baddie ship in Clue took up a lot of my early time as well. I honestly had no idea I was suspected so much, but recruiting Roxy seemed necessary, because she was never going to let it go. at that point we didnt have to do anything because the thread was taking the daleks down. The Cybers had blocked Roxy the night the daleks targeted BR, so we knew she'd been blocked and it was just a matter of time, before they came for her.

I didn't see it listed, but what night did you role check me Cybers? That's basically how we knew who some of you were, because bass and snow were sure I was bad.

Without this role I think the civs would have had a chance, but the Master was a worthy adversary plus having MM who would inherit the kill, would have brought the game down in numbers as well.

I had a blast in btsc with my teammates and loved our intense plotting and scheming. We had excel charts that changed every day for all kinds of scenarios for end game. It was a very fun group of people to be bad with and I loved our hodge podge gang of Dalek, Cybers, Strax, Wilfred, Martha, and the Doctor.

Linki keys is also my new favorite person. Just sayin'.

Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

Snow Dog wrote:Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

It did cause me to panic a bit, but I figured the best way to combat it was an all-out aggressive offense against it, to prove that it was baseless. Seems that it worked.

If you and Bass had gotten Hedge lynched immediately, that also could have changed some things.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

It did cause me to panic a bit, but I figured the best way to combat it was an all-out aggressive offense against it, to prove that it was baseless. Seems that it worked.

If you and Bass had gotten Hedge lynched immediately, that also could have changed some things.

I was thinking of Nking Hedge at the end. But my only chance of a win was a hope of being recruited. If Hedge died, after Dom i was undoubtably the next lynch.

And all that "the recruiter is dead" nonsense going around made me laugh.

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

It did cause me to panic a bit, but I figured the best way to combat it was an all-out aggressive offense against it, to prove that it was baseless. Seems that it worked.

If you and Bass had gotten Hedge lynched immediately, that also could have changed some things.

I was thinking of Nking Hedge at the end. But my only chance of a win was a hope of being recruited. If Hedge died, after Dom i was undoubtably the next lynch.

I was kind of surprised you folks didn't do it after your accusation didn't stick, but I also realize it would have been way more favorable to get her lynched over NKed.

After how you went down as Snow Dog 1.0 and after I relentlessly attacked you as 2.0, I felt you fulfilling the last recruit was more than acceptable. But props to Epig since he was the one that proved it made more sense to go after Dom instead of recruiting him, since it allowed for more lynch distraction, and then recruit someone else N12 to end the game instead.

Snow Dog wrote:And all that "the recruiter is dead" nonsense going around made me laugh.

Haha, you can't blame me, can you?

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

It did cause me to panic a bit, but I figured the best way to combat it was an all-out aggressive offense against it, to prove that it was baseless. Seems that it worked.

If you and Bass had gotten Hedge lynched immediately, that also could have changed some things.

I was thinking of Nking Hedge at the end. But my only chance of a win was a hope of being recruited. If Hedge died, after Dom i was undoubtably the next lynch.

Funny story, the recruit would have passed down.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

It did cause me to panic a bit, but I figured the best way to combat it was an all-out aggressive offense against it, to prove that it was baseless. Seems that it worked.

If you and Bass had gotten Hedge lynched immediately, that also could have changed some things.

I was thinking of Nking Hedge at the end. But my only chance of a win was a hope of being recruited. If Hedge died, after Dom i was undoubtably the next lynch.

Funny story, the recruit would have passed down.

Haha, yeah, that was the clincher. You know my thoughts on that aspect of your role, but it was why we pretty much secured a very likely win when you recruited me, IMO.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Which is why my case on her fell on stony ground. She wasn't even phased by my continuous accusations. And neither was MP. In fact he came out all aggresive offense. Remember my scenario post after you came back? Did that not shake you just a bit alex?

It did cause me to panic a bit, but I figured the best way to combat it was an all-out aggressive offense against it, to prove that it was baseless. Seems that it worked.

If you and Bass had gotten Hedge lynched immediately, that also could have changed some things.

I was thinking of Nking Hedge at the end. But my only chance of a win was a hope of being recruited. If Hedge died, after Dom i was undoubtably the next lynch.

Funny story, the recruit would have passed down.

Haha, yeah, that was the clincher. You know my thoughts on that aspect of your role, but it was why we pretty much secured a very likely win when you recruited me, IMO.

No fucking shit, lmao. You were quarterbacking the civs' whole show. I was going on your lead.