The Syndicate

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:21 am**

thellama73 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Long Con wrote:I agree, I think "info dumping", or at least info-hinting, should be a vibrant part of Mafia. It's the reason why giving the baddies a dead-role-checker (or even a regular role-checker) is so good. What an opportunity!

Perhaps the better way to combat the perceived info-dumping problem is for hosts to introduce things into the game to specifically neutralize the possibility. More baddie roles that can cause wrong information to seem right, variants on the Seemer role, roles that are listed as Civvie but are actually bad...

Also, it's worthwhile to point out that the baddies have a WAY better record on this site than the Civvies. The baddies win disproportionately more. So an infodumping problem isn't hurting the overall baddie win chances.
Baddies win more than civvies here because the civvies do not play. Nonparticipation significantly drops the difficulty for mafia
Stay tuned for what we hope will be a pleasant surprise on that front.

Well now I feel like the kid who opened his gifts the night before Christmas

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:25 am**

Long Con wrote:I agree, I think "info dumping", or at least info-hinting, should be a vibrant part of Mafia. It's the reason why giving the baddies a dead-role-checker (or even a regular role-checker) is so good. What an opportunity!

Perhaps the better way to combat the perceived info-dumping problem is for hosts to introduce things into the game to specifically neutralize the possibility. More baddie roles that can cause wrong information to seem right, variants on the Seemer role, roles that are listed as Civvie but are actually bad...

Also, it's worthwhile to point out that the baddies have a WAY better record on this site than the Civvies. The baddies win disproportionately more. So an infodumping problem isn't hurting the overall baddie win chances.

It ruins the game for the player, eh?

The game, in general, has a huge problem with info-dumping lately. You know that.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:25 am**

bea wrote:Thanks llama - I am pretty cool in lots of things -but I'm not great at mafia - and I never claimed to be. I do however, love to learn and welcome instruction.

you're cool too sir!

TH - you would have been fun to have back too! I voted where I wanted to there. I couldn't believe anyone who picked Abed is Batman was bad.

It's not my place nor fair of me to say you played poorly or to "teach" you how to play. You *could* have been more subtle, and I think that was the thing for me is how obvious both you and Eloh were about it. Save the cheeky obvious stuff for BTSC chat.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:26 am**

Speaking of cheeky obvious stuff, What was it in the sign ups thread you guys were talking about? Completely missed it.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:27 am**

Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:32 am**

Long Con wrote:I agree, I think "info dumping", or at least info-hinting, should be a vibrant part of Mafia. It's the reason why giving the baddies a dead-role-checker (or even a regular role-checker) is so good. What an opportunity!

Perhaps the better way to combat the perceived info-dumping problem is for hosts to introduce things into the game to specifically neutralize the possibility. More baddie roles that can cause wrong information to seem right, variants on the Seemer role, roles that are listed as Civvie but are actually bad...

Also, it's worthwhile to point out that the baddies have a WAY better record on this site than the Civvies. The baddies win disproportionately more. So an infodumping problem isn't hurting the overall baddie win chances.

It is when infodumping is against the rules, which is generally the case.

Perhaps that should/could be changed for future games?

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:34 am**

SVS is gonna be so mad at me when she wakes up tomorrow.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:39 am**

Just to circle the wagon back to the inactive thing:

Lizzy, Lorab, Sabie, and Reywas were ALL civvies. When that big a chunk of civvies are inactive, its not surprising to me that the mafia win more often than not.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:42 am**

DharmaHelper wrote:SVS is gonna be so mad at me when she wakes up tomorrow.

tbh she will never trust you again

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:48 am**

Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

Hey hey hey!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:49 am**

Long Con wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.
Hey hey hey!

Perhaps you were included as an inactive?

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:55 am**

Long Con wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.
Hey hey hey!

LC I am sorry for the oversight-- I am a bit drunk.

TBH you played an amazing game. I am very happy you won-- we agreed, as a team, that you should.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:59 am**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Long Con wrote:I agree, I think "info dumping", or at least info-hinting, should be a vibrant part of Mafia. It's the reason why giving the baddies a dead-role-checker (or even a regular role-checker) is so good. What an opportunity!

Perhaps the better way to combat the perceived info-dumping problem is for hosts to introduce things into the game to specifically neutralize the possibility. More baddie roles that can cause wrong information to seem right, variants on the Seemer role, roles that are listed as Civvie but are actually bad...

Also, it's worthwhile to point out that the baddies have a WAY better record on this site than the Civvies. The baddies win disproportionately more. So an infodumping problem isn't hurting the overall baddie win chances.
It is when infodumping is against the rules, which is generally the case.

Perhaps that should/could be changed for future games?

I would like to see that. I think some of the ideas I put out there could really lessen the negative impact of an "infodump".

Thanks, Dom, I really appreciate that. I can only imagine what you guys thought of Gollum throughout the game!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:02 am**

Long Con wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Long Con wrote:I agree, I think "info dumping", or at least info-hinting, should be a vibrant part of Mafia. It's the reason why giving the baddies a dead-role-checker (or even a regular role-checker) is so good. What an opportunity!

Perhaps the better way to combat the perceived info-dumping problem is for hosts to introduce things into the game to specifically neutralize the possibility. More baddie roles that can cause wrong information to seem right, variants on the Seemer role, roles that are listed as Civvie but are actually bad...

Also, it's worthwhile to point out that the baddies have a WAY better record on this site than the Civvies. The baddies win disproportionately more. So an infodumping problem isn't hurting the overall baddie win chances.
It is when infodumping is against the rules, which is generally the case.

Perhaps that should/could be changed for future games?
I would like to see that. I think some of the ideas I put out there could really lessen the negative impact of an "infodump".

Thanks, Dom, I really appreciate that. I can only imagine what you guys thought of Gollum throughout the game!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:02 am**

^^^D'oh, forgot to type a message.

I agree with your points from your previous post LC.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:03 am**

Dom wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.
Hey hey hey!
LC I am sorry for the oversight-- I am a bit drunk.

TBH you played an amazing game. I am very happy you won-- we agreed, as a team, that you should.

I made it a point to specifically not out DH, because I wanted to play at a higher standard. I really thought I would be successful with the semi-bogus case against him, but DAMN is he slippery!

Also, he admitted to me in the Gollum chat that his Day One Misfits ploy was all bullshit.

So I tried to focus everyone on it. I still don't know why no one ever analyzed it and saw that it was ludicrous... another testament to DH's abilities!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:30 am**

This game was lame. Black Rock was killed night one! Why? WHY!!!???? I loved my role and so wanted to play it. You broke my heart Suits, BROKE MY HEART! I had to follow along the game as a deady ALL game. So very sad. I deserved a chance. I hope you four realize what I have to do to you. It will be very sad for you as well. I had to throw a real life fit at that post, a real life fit. Imagine what LC had to witness. It was awful, his life was changed forever. You will now have to suffer these real life situations for the rest of your life... as long as I have opportunity. I'll never have this role again, I hope it was worth the agonizing death I must bestow upon you.

Yes, LC has been feeding me Rye and Coke all night.

I am a drama queen without this... your names have been recorded... in the brain.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:34 am**

DH I have to congratulate you in a different post (had to have my drama post first). Congratulations on not killing me night one, that was a good decision. I will forever admire you for that.

Seriously though, you played an excellent game. I can't believe you lasted so long. Just reading the thread you were such an obvious choice, but they all past you by. Crazy! You have a way with words.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:50 am**

Black Rock wrote:This game was lame. Black Rock was killed night one! Why? WHY!!!???? I loved my role and so wanted to play it. You broke my heart Suits, BROKE MY HEART! I had to follow along the game as a deady ALL game. So very sad. I deserved a chance. I hope you four realize what I have to do to you. It will be very sad for you as well. I had to throw a real life fit at that post, a real life fit. Imagine what LC had to witness. It was awful, his life was changed forever. You will now have to suffer these real life situations for the rest of your life... as long as I have opportunity. I'll never have this role again, I hope it was worth the agonizing death I must bestow upon you.

Yes, LC has been feeding me Rye and Coke all night.

I am a drama queen without this... your names have been recorded... in the brain.

I understand your frustrations of dying early on in the championship game. Unfortunately I have no beer in the house right now.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:23 am**

DH, not mad. Impressed, SO impressed. I was so sure you were bad, and you turned it around.

I did not see a list of recruits, gonna go look for it again.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:27 am**

First of all congrats to DH. You played an awesome game, it was a pleasure to be on a team with you. I am sorry I messed up that day 1 vote. I tried to play like my indecisive civvy Who game. Problem was in Panic I left my vote on MM. I tried to move my vote but it was too late. A huge error on my part. I am so sorry team. I think it was this that got me. Shame I got lynched for being a suit though. That sucked.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:29 am**

LC, why did you spell it "rumour"?

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:35 am**

He is Canadian.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:46 am**

Yeah, sorry about that Snowy. I knew you weren't by the actual day you were lynched. Timmer learnt about the ring and when Roxy died, due to voting you, we knew you were the Necromancer. So we just continued the Suit talk!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:50 am**

S~V~S wrote:He is Canadian.

I asked in chat if Canadians spelled it the UK way but no one came up with canadian players. No one seemed to want to persue it as I was no way convinced about zeek.

Also it was stupid to target MP when we knew he was Tyler. We didn't read his role descriptin though. can you believe that?

NP zeek. I had no idea why Roxy died.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:32 am**

Well done Snowy. Are you really leaving Mafia? Hint: correct answer is no

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:56 am**

Snow Dog wrote:LC, why did you spell it "rumour"?

I just prefer to spell things correctly whenever possible. Americans apparently don't like the letter "u" as much as the rest of the world, so they drop it from words like colour, honour, neighbour, rumour, etc.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:00 am**

Also Gleeok got changed, very clever way to work in that 31st player Epi

I was sooo sure Bea was a companion, lol. I was amazed no one went after her for being the 31st person to sign up when the host said that he prerandomed the roles by order of sign up. So with 30 roles, the 31st player had to be...a secret role.

But no one really went with that. I came close, but then I reread Elo since there was the mega early vouch, and could see she was civ. So i backed off Bea, thinking the 31st role was a companion, since Dr Whos role SAID he travels with a companion.

Linki~ I tend to use Commonwealth spelling when I am in a sock game or secret BTS since I have some very obvious typing tells. I remember someone, maybe jason, telling me they use US spelling in those situations for the same reason.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:36 am**

bea wrote:epi - who would have come back if the other poll options for the dead players had won?

I'm dying to know who put Abed is Batman.

Marshy - for what it's worth - I did actually want to die so we could bring someone back. I was going to try to bring you back if it happened. Sadly no one tried to NK me.

This whole time you thought you needed to be Night killed? You needed to be lynched!

Let's see. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm going to attempt this from memory:

Sorcerers knew Boddy (Made)

There's a seemer (Dom) I really thought this was clever and that it would bring Dom back into the game.

DON't TRUST PICTURES (Bass)

Who is dead (Roxy)

Tyler Durden lies (llama) He originally sent in "Boomslang is bad" but changed when he saw Boom was going down.

Daisy killed me (Russ)

Abed is Batman (TH)

Wisdom Courage Power (nijuu)

S~V~S wrote:Also Gleeok got changed, very clever way to work in that 31st player Epi

I was sooo sure Bea was a companion, lol. I was amazed no one went after her for being the 31st person to sign up when the host said that he prerandomed the roles by order of sign up. So with 30 roles, the 31st player had to be...a secret role.

But no one really went with that. I came close, but then I reread Elo since there was the mega early vouch, and could see she was civ. So i backed off Bea, thinking the 31st role was a companion, since Dr Whos role SAID he travels with a companion.

I had no idea what I was going to do when bea signed up. I spent a couple of hours thinking about it. I couldn't just add a 31st role (even a secret one) because everyone would know bea had it. When, after the game began, you PMed me with the "Ah, so they are the Doctor and a companion," I thought, "Well damn, that would have been a good idea too!"

Long Con wrote:You need winner's banners, Epig?

I have not made them yet. If you are volunteering, that would be most welcome.

Long Con wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:LC, why did you spell it "rumour"?
I just prefer to spell things correctly whenever possible. Americans apparently don't like the letter "u" as much as the rest of the world, so they drop it from words like colour, honour, neighbour, rumour, etc.

I parodied this in my Doctour Who post.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:40 am**

SUCH a fun game Epi. Thank you to everyone who made it so fun!

bea wrote:I feel very torn and upset by this whole thing. Because I guess I keep thinking I know where the line is and then I over step it. I honestly don't think I did anything wrong this game. If anyone wants to search my posts and PLEASE tell me where I did anything wrong. Do it and PM it to me because I want to be a better player and I *though* was was becoming one.

I literally feel sick to my stomach that I helped make this game so unenjoyable for so many people. I want to get better but if I'm not shown better ways of playing things, I can't learn. Show me how civ bts was played better. Then I can learn.

BTSC was hit or miss for Bea and I b/c of busy schedules I suppose. After Bea had posted about her trust in me since receiving her role PM, I felt the need to reciprocate so that you all didn't suspect her wrongly. It got out of hand I guess, but I didn't realize it at the time. Like Bea, I didn't know I was doing anything wrong. I read through the rules several times before posting about my trust of Bea. I wanted to make sure I was not role outing whatsoever. And really, I didn't. No one knew we were gleeok. However, I hate that our explicit trust of each other ruined fun for others and I apologize for it.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:14 am**

Long Con wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:LC, why did you spell it "rumour"?
I just prefer to spell things correctly whenever possible. Americans apparently don't like the letter "u" as much as the rest of the world, so they drop it from words like colour, honour, neighbour, rumour, etc.

But we like the letter Z more than the rest of the world, so we say criticize instead of criticise. In this I dissent from my countrymen, as I find Z to be horribly crass and vulgar.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:28 am**

thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:LC, why did you spell it "rumour"?
I just prefer to spell things correctly whenever possible. Americans apparently don't like the letter "u" as much as the rest of the world, so they drop it from words like colour, honour, neighbour, rumour, etc.
But we like the letter Z more than the rest of the world, so we say criticize instead of criticise. In this I dissent from my countrymen, as I find Z to be horribly crass and vulgar.

And therefore very American.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:29 am**

zeek wrote:Well done Snowy. Are you really leaving Mafia? Hint: correct answer is no

It was not a ruse. I have quit mafia.

(But I may just need a break)

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:35 am**

I hope it's just a break, Snowy

I'm resuming my break now, so I'll see when I'm up to the task again. I get so involved in these games it would be hard to stay sane playing too frequently.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:43 am**

zeek wrote:I hope it's just a break, Snowy

I'm resuming my break now, so I'll see when I'm up to the task again. I get so involved in these games it would be hard to stay sane playing too frequently.

I never said it before but congratulations on your engagement.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:43 am**

Dom wrote:
Roxy wrote:Dom srsly why vote for someone who isn't even playing?
Does LoRab's absence make her not the Doctor?

I randomized, why are you criticizing that? Other people did the same.

LOL in retrospect!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:20 pm**

Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".

I never outted myself.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:22 pm**

juliets wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".
I never outted myself.

Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:26 pm**

Dom wrote:
juliets wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".
I never outted myself.
Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.

Still, 3 of however many is a problem :P

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:37 pm**

Dom wrote:
juliets wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".
I never outted myself.
Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.

No problem Dom.

I've been trying to figure out how you "out" someone as opposed to accuse them. If you "out" them does that basically mean you info dumped about them? Because building a case on them to be someone in particular obviously isn't outting - it's building a case.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:43 pm**

juliets wrote:
Dom wrote:
juliets wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".
I never outted myself.
Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.
No problem Dom.

I've been trying to figure out how you "out" someone as opposed to accuse them. If you "out" them does that basically mean you info dumped about them? Because building a case on them to be someone in particular obviously isn't outting - it's building a case.

For example:

In his first post back from his silencing and the Dom/Bass lynch, MP said, "I was targeted by Bavmorda and [whatever bass's role name was]". That outed both ME and MP. That did not build a case-- it simply told everyone that I was Bavmorda and that MP was Tyler Durden. There's no suspicion here.

If someone were to theorize that was the case, that'd be a different story.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:46 pm**

For example, my entire team knew MP was Tyler Durden since like Night 2, I think. We used a role check on him from the Horcruxes. We were trying to use that to find a reason to lynch MP. Not the other way around.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:47 pm**

gotcha dom - thanks!

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:18 pm**

Dom wrote:
juliets wrote:
Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".
I never outted myself.
Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.

I felt horrible when I accidentally crossposted as Lily. I couldn't even go in and change the poster, but the mods were locked out of that function in the thread. In any case other people were in there when I did it, so it would have been pointless and possible even counted as editing.

Then I was mad as hell that the prezzie I tried to send Bea got sent to someone else, so when "Snape" messages started showing up, I did not know what to do. I would not have said zeeks name had he not done so, but I thought it was a very plausible connection. Since everyone KNEW I was Snape, I was not sure how else to handle it when that happened.

So sorry for my contribution to the whole sorry mess

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:36 pm**

Long Con wrote:Was the Hatter's win condition just survival? Also, I believed his threats were empty!

I changed his message to me to try and get Mongoose some sort of cred by grouping her with Civs.

My win condition was to get rid of as many players with hats (as in, their role picture) as possible. If the hats outnumbered the no-hats, I would win with any alignment, whether or not I was lynched.

Hence, when I found out you were without a hat (and others), I went after you, absolutely not giving a shit what happened to me in the process

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:51 pm**

LOVED this game. I had so much fun with it, despite the crazy role outing (which, for the record, I also did not participate in

), and I enjoyed the change of pace being an Indy and having win conditions completely non-contingent upon everyone else's goals. I enjoyed watching the panic and ridiculous speculation that ensued from my absolutely BS messages.

Good job, Civvies! I only wish more of you had been wearing hats...

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:07 pm**

First off, thank you so much for hosting this game, Epi. I loved it. It was an awesome fucking game and one of the most fun games I've ever played.

DH, you played perhaps the most brilliant baddie game I've ever seen. I'm not exaggerating. Props to you, sir. You were able to argue your way out of anything and make it sound genuine. I'm glad you were able to win this game.

I'm glad I lost this game, honestly. I tried my absolute hardest and sunk so much time into winning, because I still couldn't eliminate my desire to win, but it was certainly fitting and poetic that I lost by just one number. Once I was outed, I definitely had regret, and honestly just wanted the civilians to win, so I tried my hardest to make that possible.

Timmer, I'm glad you were honored. I had narrowed it down to you and a few others, basing it (and also my recruits) on who I thought could last long in the game by both avoiding NKs and talking their way out of lynches. I also knew you've been really active in some games the past year and not as active in others so I was hoping that would work to my advantage. But what really sealed the deal for me is I really wanted you to be it because you rocked the role so much in Fight Club, and I wanted to partner with you here.

Regarding my decision to infodump, I thought I had considered all the ramifications of it, but in reality I hadn't, and shouldn't have rushed to the decision. I am very, very sorry to Dom. It was unfair. At the time, I had seen the previous cycle where LC said he was silenced by the Warden, and so I thought if other people are saying who silenced them, then why shouldn't I? I went back and forth on the decision SO MUCH because I knew outing myself would be incredibly risky and it would be possible no one would listen to me, but I had asked Epig not just once but multiple times whether my prospective decision was OK and not against the rules. He gave me explicit permission every time, even if he questioned whether I'd want to do it. If he had just said, no, this is clearly role outing, there's no way I would have done it. I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was -- and I viewed it more so as you getting caught by the mechanism, and not being outed by me. And I totally blanked that there was a role blocker in this game, so I kept thinking it would be so evident I was the only one silenced, and that people were starting to catch on anyway. As perhaps misguided as that approach was, that's how I thought of it at the time, especially since I had Epi's approval. I realized after I did it that, even though I didn't say "Dom is bad", it was essentially equivalent to that, and so I obviously regret it, and would never do that again. I understand how frustrated you got, and at the time I realize I didn't show the degree of empathy that I should have, and I apologize all around. I shouldn't have ruined your game like that. And so I'm glad I lost, to be honest.

--------------------------------

Now, nonetheless, and this is coming both from a personal level and as an administrator, I realize there was so much rule breaking and outing this game, and I want to make a few points:

1) Role outing is clearly against the rules. It was listed right in Epi's rules as well. I and many others skirted or completely crossed that line this game and I think this game will serve as a huge wake-up call to players -- we should all be playing a fair and clean game here, myself included.

2) Despite 1), bringing one's frustration into the thread the way that some did throughout this game was completely unacceptable. On the one hand people were going on and on about Champion-like behavior, but it is also NOT Champion-like to blatantly disrespect your other players in the thread, which I was on the receiving end of in this game more than once, and I was certainly not the only one. I hope that we can not only very much keep in mind the no outing rule in the future but also this. There is both the host and the Mod on Duty for dumping emotionally, even when one feels a rule has been broken, and I feel a lot of the derailing that happened this game, although it was triggered by people who skirting breaking the rules or blatantly broke the rules, was furthered by people derailing emotionally in the thread in response. It certainly didn't help the situation.

3) Although role outing was clearly against Epi's rules, not only did players break it, but Epi didn't enforce punishment upon those who broke it. I understand why he didn't, since modkilling breaks the integrity of the game, and absolutely no disrespect to Epi as he could not have anticipated all the outing that occurred, but it was made clear in this game that this needs to be addressed by hosts as well as players. Hosts need to better consider their game design with respect to prospective role outing as well as disciplinary procedures to address players breaking the rules, particularly role outing.

That's all I have to say about the matter.

In addition, as Llama hinted, there will be very shortly implemented and explained a new site mechanism the administration and moderation team has designed to combat the issue of non-participation.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:18 pm**

nijuukyugou wrote:
Long Con wrote:Was the Hatter's win condition just survival? Also, I believed his threats were empty!

I changed his message to me to try and get Mongoose some sort of cred by grouping her with Civs.
My win condition was to get rid of as many players with hats (as in, their role picture) as possible. If the hats outnumbered the no-hats, I would win with any alignment, whether or not I was lynched.

Hence, when I found out you were without a hat (and others), I went after you, absolutely not giving a shit what happened to me in the process

Awesome! And you sent me a message that night because I asked for Snape to send it? Did you like how I altered it?

I was sent:

A secret revolution is building! Wanna really win this game? Spread the message of peace! Purge the thread of those who carry weapons - swords, wands, screwdrivers that may or may not be sonic, overly large sticks...you get the gist. Together, we can win this without violence! But discretion is key...

I see now that it refers to killing hatless folk. I changed it to refer to bea, Elohcin, S~V~S and Mongoose, in a Hail Mary attempt to associate Mongoose with those 'Confirmed Civs'... or to make people think they were all recruited or something... kind of just adding different chemicals to the mixture to see what happened. Nothing really happened, but it was worth a try. I said it was from Snape in the thread because I wanted to gauge S~V~S' reaction because there was some niggling suspicion that DH was fooling me and S~V~S was Voldemort, and they were all laughing at me behind the scenes, thinking I knew anything.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:22 pm**

Also, I must say, excellently played as Gollum, LC.

Posted: **Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:27 pm**

MovingPictures07 wrote:I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was...

Imagine if you had chosen to work WITH the baddies at this point... maybe if you had left Bass and Dom alone, they would have both been, like, "This guy's cool!" and who KNOWS? I like to turn baddie when I'm Indy, but I was glad for the opportunity to jump ship this time.

In addition, as Llama hinted, there will be very shortly implemented and explained a new site mechanism the administration and moderation team has designed to combat the issue of non-participation.

Nice. I think the non-participation issue is at least as bad for games as the infodumping issue.

The Syndicate

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