The Syndicate

juliets wrote:

Dom wrote:

juliets wrote:

Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".

I never outted myself.

Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.

No problem Dom.

I've been trying to figure out how you "out" someone as opposed to accuse them. If you "out" them does that basically mean you info dumped about them? Because building a case on them to be someone in particular obviously isn't outting - it's building a case.

For example:

In his first post back from his silencing and the Dom/Bass lynch, MP said, "I was targeted by Bavmorda and [whatever bass's role name was]". That outed both ME and MP. That did not build a case-- it simply told everyone that I was Bavmorda and that MP was Tyler Durden. There's no suspicion here.

If someone were to theorize that was the case, that'd be a different story.

For example, my entire team knew MP was Tyler Durden since like Night 2, I think. We used a role check on him from the Horcruxes. We were trying to use that to find a reason to lynch MP. Not the other way around.

gotcha dom - thanks!

Dom wrote:

juliets wrote:

Dom wrote:Of the people in the end game, the only person who was not outed/didn't out themselves was DH-- when excluding inactives because they don't matter at that point.

That's a problem.

Honestly, this is the second game on this site that has been absolutely DESTROYED because of info dumping and role outing. There's good in info dumping, but there's also, "hey i'm not bad and it rhymes with "prom".

I never outted myself.

Juliets, like LC, I apologize, I was not in my right mind when posting that and didn't even consult a player's list.

I felt horrible when I accidentally crossposted as Lily. I couldn't even go in and change the poster, but the mods were locked out of that function in the thread. In any case other people were in there when I did it, so it would have been pointless and possible even counted as editing.

Then I was mad as hell that the prezzie I tried to send Bea got sent to someone else, so when "Snape" messages started showing up, I did not know what to do. I would not have said zeeks name had he not done so, but I thought it was a very plausible connection. Since everyone KNEW I was Snape, I was not sure how else to handle it when that happened.

So sorry for my contribution to the whole sorry mess

Long Con wrote:Was the Hatter's win condition just survival? Also, I believed his threats were empty!


I changed his message to me to try and get Mongoose some sort of cred by grouping her with Civs.

My win condition was to get rid of as many players with hats (as in, their role picture) as possible. If the hats outnumbered the no-hats, I would win with any alignment, whether or not I was lynched.

Hence, when I found out you were without a hat (and others), I went after you, absolutely not giving a shit what happened to me in the process

LOVED this game. I had so much fun with it, despite the crazy role outing (which, for the record, I also did not participate in ), and I enjoyed the change of pace being an Indy and having win conditions completely non-contingent upon everyone else's goals. I enjoyed watching the panic and ridiculous speculation that ensued from my absolutely BS messages.

Good job, Civvies! I only wish more of you had been wearing hats...

First off, thank you so much for hosting this game, Epi. I loved it. It was an awesome fucking game and one of the most fun games I've ever played.

DH, you played perhaps the most brilliant baddie game I've ever seen. I'm not exaggerating. Props to you, sir. You were able to argue your way out of anything and make it sound genuine. I'm glad you were able to win this game.

I'm glad I lost this game, honestly. I tried my absolute hardest and sunk so much time into winning, because I still couldn't eliminate my desire to win, but it was certainly fitting and poetic that I lost by just one number. Once I was outed, I definitely had regret, and honestly just wanted the civilians to win, so I tried my hardest to make that possible.

Timmer, I'm glad you were honored. I had narrowed it down to you and a few others, basing it (and also my recruits) on who I thought could last long in the game by both avoiding NKs and talking their way out of lynches. I also knew you've been really active in some games the past year and not as active in others so I was hoping that would work to my advantage. But what really sealed the deal for me is I really wanted you to be it because you rocked the role so much in Fight Club, and I wanted to partner with you here.

Regarding my decision to infodump, I thought I had considered all the ramifications of it, but in reality I hadn't, and shouldn't have rushed to the decision. I am very, very sorry to Dom. It was unfair. At the time, I had seen the previous cycle where LC said he was silenced by the Warden, and so I thought if other people are saying who silenced them, then why shouldn't I? I went back and forth on the decision SO MUCH because I knew outing myself would be incredibly risky and it would be possible no one would listen to me, but I had asked Epig not just once but multiple times whether my prospective decision was OK and not against the rules. He gave me explicit permission every time, even if he questioned whether I'd want to do it. If he had just said, no, this is clearly role outing, there's no way I would have done it. I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was -- and I viewed it more so as you getting caught by the mechanism, and not being outed by me. And I totally blanked that there was a role blocker in this game, so I kept thinking it would be so evident I was the only one silenced, and that people were starting to catch on anyway. As perhaps misguided as that approach was, that's how I thought of it at the time, especially since I had Epi's approval. I realized after I did it that, even though I didn't say "Dom is bad", it was essentially equivalent to that, and so I obviously regret it, and would never do that again. I understand how frustrated you got, and at the time I realize I didn't show the degree of empathy that I should have, and I apologize all around. I shouldn't have ruined your game like that. And so I'm glad I lost, to be honest.

--------------------------------

Now, nonetheless, and this is coming both from a personal level and as an administrator, I realize there was so much rule breaking and outing this game, and I want to make a few points:

1) Role outing is clearly against the rules. It was listed right in Epi's rules as well. I and many others skirted or completely crossed that line this game and I think this game will serve as a huge wake-up call to players -- we should all be playing a fair and clean game here, myself included.

2) Despite 1), bringing one's frustration into the thread the way that some did throughout this game was completely unacceptable. On the one hand people were going on and on about Champion-like behavior, but it is also NOT Champion-like to blatantly disrespect your other players in the thread, which I was on the receiving end of in this game more than once, and I was certainly not the only one. I hope that we can not only very much keep in mind the no outing rule in the future but also this. There is both the host and the Mod on Duty for dumping emotionally, even when one feels a rule has been broken, and I feel a lot of the derailing that happened this game, although it was triggered by people who skirting breaking the rules or blatantly broke the rules, was furthered by people derailing emotionally in the thread in response. It certainly didn't help the situation.

3) Although role outing was clearly against Epi's rules, not only did players break it, but Epi didn't enforce punishment upon those who broke it. I understand why he didn't, since modkilling breaks the integrity of the game, and absolutely no disrespect to Epi as he could not have anticipated all the outing that occurred, but it was made clear in this game that this needs to be addressed by hosts as well as players. Hosts need to better consider their game design with respect to prospective role outing as well as disciplinary procedures to address players breaking the rules, particularly role outing.

That's all I have to say about the matter.

In addition, as Llama hinted, there will be very shortly implemented and explained a new site mechanism the administration and moderation team has designed to combat the issue of non-participation.

nijuukyugou wrote:

Long Con wrote:Was the Hatter's win condition just survival? Also, I believed his threats were empty!


I changed his message to me to try and get Mongoose some sort of cred by grouping her with Civs.

My win condition was to get rid of as many players with hats (as in, their role picture) as possible. If the hats outnumbered the no-hats, I would win with any alignment, whether or not I was lynched.

Hence, when I found out you were without a hat (and others), I went after you, absolutely not giving a shit what happened to me in the process

Awesome! And you sent me a message that night because I asked for Snape to send it? Did you like how I altered it?

I was sent:

A secret revolution is building! Wanna really win this game? Spread the message of peace! Purge the thread of those who carry weapons - swords, wands, screwdrivers that may or may not be sonic, overly large sticks...you get the gist. Together, we can win this without violence! But discretion is key...

I see now that it refers to killing hatless folk. I changed it to refer to bea, Elohcin, S~V~S and Mongoose, in a Hail Mary attempt to associate Mongoose with those 'Confirmed Civs'... or to make people think they were all recruited or something... kind of just adding different chemicals to the mixture to see what happened. Nothing really happened, but it was worth a try. I said it was from Snape in the thread because I wanted to gauge S~V~S' reaction because there was some niggling suspicion that DH was fooling me and S~V~S was Voldemort, and they were all laughing at me behind the scenes, thinking I knew anything.

Also, I must say, excellently played as Gollum, LC.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was...

Imagine if you had chosen to work WITH the baddies at this point... maybe if you had left Bass and Dom alone, they would have both been, like, "This guy's cool!" and who KNOWS? I like to turn baddie when I'm Indy, but I was glad for the opportunity to jump ship this time.

In addition, as Llama hinted, there will be very shortly implemented and explained a new site mechanism the administration and moderation team has designed to combat the issue of non-participation.

Nice. I think the non-participation issue is at least as bad for games as the infodumping issue.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, I must say, excellently played as Gollum, LC.

Thanks!

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was...

Imagine if you had chosen to work WITH the baddies at this point... maybe if you had left Bass and Dom alone, they would have both been, like, "This guy's cool!" and who KNOWS? I like to turn baddie when I'm Indy, but I was glad for the opportunity to jump ship this time.

You know, I seriously considered that, but I should have considered it more.

Almost everything I said throughout the game was actually NOT a lie, despite some's insistence otherwise, I was curious to see how it would be once to play a completely neutral role as if it was working as much for the civilian cause as possible.

Nonetheless, now I believe I made a total error in judgment; if I had just played along with my knowledge, I could have prevented not only drama, but also outing myself, and made a much more strategically sound move. It's OK, I at least learned from this, but as much as I loved being a civilian-leaning Indy for once, I will admit I'm not convinced I like it more than playing baddie-leaning, because I do generally prefer to play baddie roles myself.

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was...

Imagine if you had chosen to work WITH the baddies at this point... maybe if you had left Bass and Dom alone, they would have both been, like, "This guy's cool!" and who KNOWS? I like to turn baddie when I'm Indy, but I was glad for the opportunity to jump ship this time.

In addition, as Llama hinted, there will be very shortly implemented and explained a new site mechanism the administration and moderation team has designed to combat the issue of non-participation.

Nice. I think the non-participation issue is at least as bad for games as the infodumping issue.

Juliets makes note in her little mafia book

Now I cant stop thinking about a flustered a frustrated LC trying to get me lynched since day 2, for almost 10 full in-game days. Hilarious.

DharmaHelper wrote:Now I cant stop thinking about a flustered a frustrated LC trying to get me lynched since day 2, for almost 10 full in-game days. Hilarious.

You can pull up quotes from along the way. "The only sane guy in the asylum" was a good one.

Long Con wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Now I cant stop thinking about a flustered a frustrated LC trying to get me lynched since day 2, for almost 10 full in-game days. Hilarious.

You can pull up quotes from along the way. "The only sane guy in the asylum" was a good one.

That's how I felt when I was trying to get Made lynched, LC.

Made played excellently too. He completely squirmed his way out of that Day 2 situation-- I don't know how he got by for so long!

Made actually forced me to vote for him D2. I don't think he realized how persuasive I can be.

DharmaHelper wrote:Made actually forced me to vote for him D2. I don't think he realized how persuasive I can be.

It served its purpose, though. We did NOT think Made was bad after that.

Dom wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Made actually forced me to vote for him D2. I don't think he realized how persuasive I can be.

It served its purpose, though. We did NOT think Made was bad after that.

True. I discounted him from being a suit for sure. Though in retrospect he fit the theory that a suit missed the Dom/Bass lynch perfectly.

Rob, what happened to Mulholland Dr?

Well done to all involved and congrats to the other winners. This is in my top 3 games I've ever played

MovingPictures07 wrote:Regarding my decision to infodump, I thought I had considered all the ramifications of it, but in reality I hadn't, and shouldn't have rushed to the decision. I am very, very sorry to Dom. It was unfair. At the time, I had seen the previous cycle where LC said he was silenced by the Warden, and so I thought if other people are saying who silenced them, then why shouldn't I? I went back and forth on the decision SO MUCH because I knew outing myself would be incredibly risky and it would be possible no one would listen to me, but I had asked Epig not just once but multiple times whether my prospective decision was OK and not against the rules. He gave me explicit permission every time, even if he questioned whether I'd want to do it. If he had just said, no, this is clearly role outing, there's no way I would have done it. I frankly thought that he intended some degree of possible outing of my role considering that is a mechanism that outs me to entire teams as it is -- both baddie teams already knew who I was -- and I viewed it more so as you getting caught by the mechanism, and not being outed by me. And I totally blanked that there was a role blocker in this game, so I kept thinking it would be so evident I was the only one silenced, and that people were starting to catch on anyway. As perhaps misguided as that approach was, that's how I thought of it at the time, especially since I had Epi's approval. I realized after I did it that, even though I didn't say "Dom is bad", it was essentially equivalent to that, and so I obviously regret it, and would never do that again. I understand how frustrated you got, and at the time I realize I didn't show the degree of empathy that I should have, and I apologize all around. I shouldn't have ruined your game like that. And so I'm glad I lost, to be honest.

I take responsibility for this. My error in judgment was specifying for victims how they were silenced, that is, whether they had been holed or pigged. In retrospect, I should have just said they were silenced and blocked. To compound the problem, I allowed people before MP to say what team affected them, so I felt inconsistent not allowing MP.

So I have learned something through the experience.

I'll post about role outing and info-dumping in a little while.

Congrats to the winners!! Glad to see the civvies won even though I was not part of it. It was a great game while it lasted for me. I love Epi's games
On that note, stop killing me! Who killed me by the way?

I don't even remember who I blocked, but I do remember blocking DH the night I died. Lot of help that did By the way, Epi, do you keep track of night actions? I'd love to see what happened each night

FZ. wrote:Congrats to the winners!! Glad to see the civvies won even though I was not part of it. It was a great game while it lasted for me. I love Epi's games
On that note, stop killing me! Who killed me by the way?

I don't even remember who I blocked, but I do remember blocking DH the night I died. Lot of help that did By the way, Epi, do you keep track of night actions? I'd love to see what happened each night

I keep a spreadsheet until the number of night actions becomes mentally manageable. If you give me some time I can put that together, sure.

Was there a list of recruits?

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Congrats to the winners!! Glad to see the civvies won even though I was not part of it. It was a great game while it lasted for me. I love Epi's games
On that note, stop killing me! Who killed me by the way?

I don't even remember who I blocked, but I do remember blocking DH the night I died. Lot of help that did By the way, Epi, do you keep track of night actions? I'd love to see what happened each night

I keep a spreadsheet until the number of night actions becomes mentally manageable. If you give me some time I can put that together, sure.

Cool, thanks

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Can I have a milkshake?

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Can I have a milkshake?

We're out of milk.

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Can I have a milkshake?

We're out of milk.

He can give you milk. Though I have no idea if a milkshake based on a llama's milk is any good

Thanks, FZ. You ruined a lovely moment.

The thought of Llamas milk ruins ALL moments

ew

A llama's milk already comes with spit in it.

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Can I have a milkshake?

We're out of milk.

He can give you milk. Though I have no idea if a milkshake based on a llama's milk is any good

Hilarious. But isn't llama a male llama? I wouldn't think he could give milk.

Elohcin wrote: Hilarious. But isn't llama a male llama? I wouldn't think he could give milk.

This conversation is about to get crude...

The ew factor is increasing exponentially.

zeek wrote:

Elohcin wrote: Hilarious. But isn't llama a male llama? I wouldn't think he could give milk.

This conversation is about to get crude...

As I said, a llama's milk already comes with spit in it.


















I'll show myself out.

Elohcin wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Can I have a milkshake?

We're out of milk.

He can give you milk. Though I have no idea if a milkshake based on a llama's milk is any good

Hilarious. But isn't llama a male llama? I wouldn't think he could give milk.

He's an outgoing llama. I'm sure he could get some from someone in the herd

Epignosis wrote:

zeek wrote:

Elohcin wrote: Hilarious. But isn't llama a male llama? I wouldn't think he could give milk.

This conversation is about to get crude...

As I said, a llama's milk already comes with spit in it.

You've revealed too much about yourself

Can we still nominate quotes for the forum awards?

Full disclosure: I'm getting ready for Cards Against Humanity at Blooper's house tonight.

FZ. wrote: He's an outgoing llama. I'm sure he could get some from someone in the herd

Reading this sentence alone takes it to a totally different direction

Elohcin wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was there a list of recruits?

Yeah, I have that too.

Can I have a milkshake?

We're out of milk.

He can give you milk. Though I have no idea if a milkshake based on a llama's milk is any good

Hilarious. But isn't llama a male llama? I wouldn't think he could give milk.

I already said ew, or was my brain the first that... never mind I'll come back later.

FZ. wrote: He's an outgoing llama. I'm sure he could get some from someone in the herd

I'm not outgoing. I'm both incumbent and elect.

SvS, here is my previously promised apology. I misread your actions this game and was wrong about your alignment, you have my most sincere and deepest apology. that said, I cannot promise it will never happen again...

Spacedaisy wrote:SvS, here is my previously promised apology. I misread your actions this game and was wrong about your alignment, you have my most sincere and deepest apology. that said, I cannot promise it will never happen again...

<3

Me too. The way you went after Dom so hard when you had barely posted... it turned my head. And I should have known better.

Also, I can't believe people couldn't see through the way MP was acting about me. I knew he was trying too hard to make me look like his narrator. And I would have been a most illogical choice for a narrator... I blame him for being killed.