The Syndicate

Is a regular game design (civs - mafia - indy) possible, in which the mafia "team" doesn't actually get BTSC priviledges? They'd rather be three or four villains that need to be hunted down. They would not be SKs, because only one would have the kill and it would be inherited by another one of them and so on, until total elimination.

Or would it be too damaging for the civ cause, by robbing them of some hunting tools such as judging interactions between potential or confirmed baddies, defending, distancing, bussing, etc.?

Alternative variant: a mafia team in which the villains know each other's identity, but still don't get to have BTSC. This would avoid the villain with the kill to develop SK-like qualities, by potentially affecting both factions (killing both civs and baddies).

I have no personal vision on this matter as of yet, I'm just asking and hoping for some feedback if it'd be doable.

Ricochet wrote:Is a regular game design (civs - mafia - indy) possible, in which the mafia "team" doesn't actually get BTSC priviledges? They'd rather be three or four villains that need to be hunted down. They would not be SKs, because only one would have the kill and it would be inherited by another one of them and so on, until total elimination.

Or would it be too damaging for the civ cause, by robbing them of some hunting tools such as judging interactions between potential or confirmed baddies, defending, distancing, bussing, etc.?

Alternative variant: a mafia team in which the villains know each other's identity, but still don't get to have BTSC. This would avoid the villain with the kill to develop SK-like qualities, by potentially affecting both factions (killing both civs and baddies).

I have no personal vision on this matter as of yet, I'm just asking and hoping for some feedback if it'd be doable.

Damaging to the civilians? It would cripple the Mafia and ultimately make it a game of luck.

I've basically seen examples of your alternative variant, simply because the mafia hardly ever used their BTSC. The biggest advantage to BTSC is knowing your team's identity, not necessarily scheming.

Cripple the Mafia...game, I presume?

Does that mean that, in your opinion, every Mafia game starts as a game of luck until catching a first baddie and developing from there further hunts? How much is mafia hunting for you, in percentage even, about reading into a player's behaviour and how much reading into a player's interactions or links with other suspects or confirmed mafia?

As for the alternative, it's not only taking away the scheming, but the coordination of night power uses and other actions (unless you count that as scheming as well). I've had experiences already where a teammate went ahead with something and left the rest going "goddamnit, Marsh-...er, I mean 'teammate, you', why'd you go and did done that".

Incidentally, I remember the Championship game not allowing the mafia to have BTSC during the Day phase, only during the Night phase (when, instead, everyone was muted from writing in the thread). So what's the essence of Night BTSC then, so that the mafia always require it? Would it impact them too much not to have it?

I've got a speed game in queue along these sorts of lines. Just civvies and BTSC-less baddies. That could go a long way toward telling if the setup has further merit. I have some reservations myself but I'm eager to see how it plays out.

A mafia team without BTSC is viable as long as they know each other's identities. I played Flash mafia as a baddie where no one knew who each other was, and the struggle was real. MP's Death Note game also fiddled with this somewhat, and because of other mechanics it made the civilians' job nearly impossible.

So yeah, if no BTSC, they at least need to know who each other are. The degree of difficulty would be high for both sides. I don't think I would want to play that game though

Turnip Head wrote:
So yeah, if no BTSC, they at least need to know who each other are. The degree of difficulty would be high for both sides. I don't think I would want to play that game though

Ricochet wrote:Cripple the Mafia...game, I presume?

Does that mean that, in your opinion, every Mafia game starts as a game of luck until catching a first baddie and developing from there further hunts? How much is mafia hunting for you, in percentage even, about reading into a player's behaviour and how much reading into a player's interactions or links with other suspects or confirmed mafia?

As for the alternative, it's not only taking away the scheming, but the coordination of night power uses and other actions (unless you count that as scheming as well). I've had experiences already where a teammate went ahead with something and left the rest going "goddamnit, Marsh-...er, I mean 'teammate, you', why'd you go and did done that".

Incidentally, I remember the Championship game not allowing the mafia to have BTSC during the Day phase, only during the Night phase (when, instead, everyone was muted from writing in the thread). So what's the essence of Night BTSC then, so that the mafia always require it? Would it impact them too much not to have it?

I think that's how the traditional mafia game was designed. All players interact and vote during the day. Then at night, mafia gets together and communicates who they want to nightkill while all the civilians go to bed (and not talk).

I think no BTSC would or could work, as long as mafia knows who each other are. It would be interesting to see a mafia who didn't know their teammates (a la Flash Mafia).

Also, I don't think planning everything in the comfort of BTSC is the best way to go. It can lead to inconsistencies in the game. But BTSC is still oodles of fun.

From what I see the definition of a mafia game is that it's an Informed Minority (mafia) vs an Uninformed Majority (town).

Without knowing each other identities, mafia is just an uninformed minority. Who happens to get a kill. Pretty underpowered, in my opinion.