The Syndicate

Given the diverse music tastes here on The Syndicate, I thought this might be an interesting topic.

From the The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's website on its purpose:

"The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum's mission is to engage, teach, and inspire through the power of rock and roll. It carries out this mission through its operation of a world-class museum that collects, preserves, exhibits and interprets this art form and through its library and archives as well as its educational programs."

Also from the RaRHoF's website, this description of its origins:

In 1983, A small group of music industry professionals led by Atlantic Records Founder and Chairman Ahmet Ertegun and including Rolling Stone magazine publisher Jann Wenner, attorney Allen Grubman, manager Jon Landau and record executives Seymour Stein, Bob Krasnow along with attorney Suzan Evans set out to establish an organization to “recognize the people who have created this music which has become the most popular music of our time.” Ertegun approached the heads of various record companies with his idea, spearheading the formation of the non-profit organization that would eventually become the Foundation.

Most music fans know that the RaRHoF inducts new members every year and there is always discussion about which bands get nominated, which bands get inducted, and why that might be. For the most part, the RaRHoF has included the most popular, commercially and critically successful bands and artists of all time. People always have opinions about whether someone should or should not have been inducted. I think opinions are often even stronger in regards to the bands who have been passed over for either induction or even a nomination to the HoF.

Here is the current list (as of 2016) of inductees under the Performers category (aka the one that gets all the attention). I apologize for the improper alphabetization:

ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME INDUCTEES (PERFORMERS)
ABBA
AC/DC
Aerosmith
Al Green
Albert King
Alice Cooper
Aretha Franklin
B.B. King
Beastie Boys
Bee Gees
Big Joe Turner
Bill Haley
Bill Withers
Billy Joel
Black Sabbath
Blondie
Bo Diddley
Bob Dylan
Bob Marley
Bob Seger
Bobby "Blue" Bland
Bobby Darin
Bobby Womack
Bonnie Raitt
Booker T. & the M.G.'s
Brenda Lee
Bruce Springsteen
Buddy Guy
Buddy Holly
Buffalo Springfield
Carl Perkins
Cat Stevens
Charlie Christian
Cheap Trick
Chicago
Chuck Berry
Clyde McPhatter
Cream
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Crosby, Stills & Nash
Curtis Mayfield
Darlene Love
David Bowie
Deep Purple
Del Shannon
Dion
Donna Summer
Donovan
Dr. John
Duane Eddy
Dusty Springfield
Eagles
Earth, Wind & Fire
Eddie Cochran
Elton John
Elvis Costello & the Attractions
Elvis Presley
Eric Clapton
Etta James
Fats Domino
Fleetwood Mac
Four Tops
Frank Zappa
Frankie Lymon & The Teenagers
Gene Pitney
Gene Vincent
Genesis
George Harrison
Gladys Knight & the Pips
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five
Grateful Dead
Green Day
Guns N' Roses
Hall & Oates
Hank Ballard
Heart
Ike & Tine Turner
Isaac Hayes
Jackie Wilson
Jacksone Browne
James Brown
James Taylor
Janis Joplin
Jeff Beck
Jefferson Airplane
Jerry Lee Lewis
Jimmy Cliff
Jimmy Reed
Joan Jett & the Blackhearts
John Lee Hooker
John Lennon
John Mellencamp
Johnny Cash
Joni Mitchell
KISS
Laura Nyro
LaVern Baker
Led Zeppelin
Leonard Cohen
Linda Ronstadt
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Little Richard
Little Willie John
Lloyd Price
Lou Reed
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Madonna
Martha and the Vandellas
Marvin Gaye
Metallica
Michael Jackson
Miles Davis
Muddy Waters
N.W.A.
Neil Diamond
Neil Young
Nirvana
Otis Redding
Parliament - Funkadelic
Patti Smith
Paul McCartney
Paul Simon
Percy Sledge
Peter Gabriel
Pink Floyd
Pretenders
Prince
Public Enemy
Queen
R.E.M.
Ramones
Randy Newman
Ray Charles
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Ricky Nelson
Ritchie Valens
Rod Stewart
Roy Orbison
Run D.M.C.
Rush
Ruth Brown
Sam & Dave
Sam Cooke
Santana
Sex Pistols
Simon & Garfunkel
Sly and the Family Stone
Small Faces/Faces
Smokey Robinson
Solomon Burke
Steely Dan
Steve Miller
Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble
Stevie Wonder
Talking Heads
The (Young) Rascals
The Allman Brothers Band
The Animals
The Band
The Beach Boys
The Beatles
The Blue Caps
The Byrds
The Clash
The Coasters
The Comets
The Crickets
The Dave Clark Five
The Dells
The Doors
The Drifters
The Everly Brothers
The Famous Flames
The Flamingos
The Four Seasons
The Hollies
The Impressions
The Isley Brothers
The Jackson 5
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
The Kinks
The Lovin' Spoonful
The Mamas & the Papas
The Midnighters
The Miracles
The Moonglows
The O'Jays
The Paul Butterfield Blues Band
The Platters
The Police
The Righteous Brothers
The Rolling Stones
The Ronettes
The Shirelles
The Staple Singers
The Stooges
The Supremes
The Temptations
The Velvet Underground
The Ventures
The Who
The Yardbirds
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
Tom Waitts
Traffic
U2
Van Halen
Van Morrison
Wilson Pickett
ZZ Top

Some discussion questions:

Are there any inductees that you disagree with?

Are there any artists/bands that you feel should be in the HoF by now but aren't?

Artists become eligible for nomination/induction 25 years after the release of their first album. This means that 90s artists/bands are going to become eligible each year now. Which 90s acts do you think will get inducted?

Never paid attention to any list of this kind, m'afraid.

Ricochet wrote:Never paid attention to any list of this kind, m'afraid.

I think most music fans take the annual inductions with a grain of salt. The RaRHoF was founded by a couple of record label executives and some music critics. I would imagine the early inductees were selected legitimately for their impact on rock n' roll but also because they made said executives very, very rich and helped launch the careers of said music critics.

There are some very interesting inductees even from back in the day that don't really qualify as rock n' roll. I think over the years the HoF became more about the music industry as a whole.

Patti Smith is misspelled! Shenanigans!

Just reinforces my opinion that the RnRHoF is kind of a joke. One thing I'll praise them for, however, is not inducting that aural vomit known as The Eagles.

Agh, I take it back! They are there, just under "Eagles'! Hate.

Reasons why I am not a fan:

Kraftwerk
Yes
Gram Parsons
The Smiths
King Crimson
New Order
Jethro Tull
Todd Rundgren
Joy Division
(plus)

aren't on that list, but the Bee Gees, the Eagles and ABBA are.

S~V~S wrote:Reasons why I am not a fan:

Kraftwerk
Yes
Gram Parsons
The Smiths
King Crimson
New Order
Jethro Tull
Todd Rundgren
Joy Division
(plus)

aren't on that list, but the Bee Gees, the Eagles and ABBA are.

This is a beautiful post. S~V~S, I had no idea you liked Yes. Please talk to me.

I don't really listen to them anymore (I did in college constantly) but no one can deny that they are epic greats. They are a top 25 all time band.

S~V~S wrote:I don't really listen to them anymore (I did in college constantly) but no one can deny that they are epic greats. They are a top 25 all time band.

Have you ever heard Tales from Topographic Oceans? That is my favorite album of all time.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I don't really listen to them anymore (I did in college constantly) but no one can deny that they are epic greats. They are a top 25 all time band.

Have you ever heard Tales from Topographic Oceans? That is my favorite album of all time.

Nous sommes du soleil.

As long as it's not Close to the Edge...

Ricochet wrote:As long as it's not Close to the Edge...

Thanks for being the Relayer of that information.

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:As long as it's not Close to the Edge...

Thanks for being the Relayer of that information.

I'm really enjoying this Talk.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:As long as it's not Close to the Edge...

Thanks for being the Relayer of that information.

I'm really enjoying this Talk.

I don't know, it's starting to make me wish I could Fly from Here.

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:As long as it's not Close to the Edge...

Thanks for being the Relayer of that information.

I'm really enjoying this Talk.

I don't know, it's starting to make me wish I could Fly from Here.

How could you possibly break our Union?

Because we haven't got the time and a word can't be gotten in edgewise.

Plus, it was fragile to begin with.

S~V~S wrote:Reasons why I am not a fan:

Kraftwerk
Yes
Gram Parsons
The Smiths
King Crimson
New Order
Jethro Tull
Todd Rundgren
Joy Division
(plus)

aren't on that list, but the Bee Gees, the Eagles and ABBA are.

This.

Someone should throw a Tomato at MP for breaking the chain.

Or maybe he'll get swept away by a Tornado instead.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Or maybe he'll get swept away by a Tornado instead.

I just realized I've never read the name of that album correctly.

S~V~S wrote:Reasons why I am not a fan:

Kraftwerk
Yes
Gram Parsons
The Smiths
King Crimson
New Order
Jethro Tull
Todd Rundgren
Joy Division
(plus)

aren't on that list, but the Bee Gees, the Eagles and ABBA are.

Ah, see this is what I was hoping for. I knew many people on this forum would take issue with Yes's exclusion from the HoF but I want to know what other influential acts you guys think should be in there. Plenty of acts remain popular and memorable even though they aren't in the HoF. Heck, I think it's a crime that The Cars have yet to be inducted. They were a big part of the New Wave era.

Reading over the list, I admit that I got a little twitchy when I saw names like ABBA, Donna Summer, Linda Ronstadt, and Simon & Garfunkel, who were not what I would consider rock acts. Then there's all the "soft rock" stuff like Billy Joel and Elton John that, while influential, do not meet my definition of rock. There are some outliers there too that belong to completely different genres (Bob Marley???) that show the HoF is more about recognizing all forms of popular music. Rock n' roll has evolved so much over time that's it's hard to be narrow in defining things. Heck, some of the early white boy rock n' roll (Bobby Darin, Buddy Holly, etc.) sound really tame compared to the wild and raucous 50s rock bands that aren't even played by oldies stations, let along modern rock.

I'd say Kansas belongs in the hall of fame, but they don't deserve to be in the same list as Guns 'N' Roses and Cheap Trick.

Epignosis wrote:I'd say Kansas belongs in the hall of fame, but they don't deserve to be in the same list as Guns 'N' Roses and Cheap Trick.

Brian Eno
Captain Beefheart
Dire Straits
and T.Rex come to mind.

Iron Maiden isn't on this list either?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Iron Maiden isn't on this list either?

No, but Ricky Nelson is

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Iron Maiden isn't on this list either?

You sound surprised that a bunch of industry and journalistic snobs would shun Iron Maiden.

S~V~S wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Iron Maiden isn't on this list either?

No, but Ricky Nelson is

Just wait until Britney Spears and the Spice Girls are inducted. They're both just a few years away from being eligible.

Madonna is my favorite Rock and Roll musician.

You're sure it isn't Duane Eddy?

Just read this article. Then we'll talk.

*taps fingers*

http://www.digitalspy.com/music/radio/n ... ign=fbdsuk

The Cars?
Judas Priest?
Pat Benatar?
Jim Croce?
Moody Blues?

I guess when you poll a very specific denomination of people, it speaks for the entire world and everything ever. Yeesh.

What a staggaringly ignorant bunch of people those polled people must be. Do they not realize that "Greatest British Song" includes the entire discographies of:
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Kinks
Led Zeppelin
The Who
Black Sabbath
David Bowie
Pink Floyd
And about a million other great bands I could name?

I know. My mouth hung open. I probably looked like a moron.

thellama73 wrote:What a staggaringly ignorant bunch of people those polled people must be. Do they not realize that "Greatest British Song" includes the entire discographies of:
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Kinks
Led Zeppelin
The Who
Black Sabbath
David Bowie
Pink Floyd
And about a million other great bands I could name?

All surveys should be questioned. Look at the station- Radio X in the UK. A look into the station's past reveals it was founded in the early 90s focusing on current rock and alternative music. Hence, the station probably lacks much listenership from the first half of Generation X or older, nor do they play the stuff that Brit rock is founded upon. It looks like it still focuses on those genres, so everything from the early 90s onward is what listeners of that station know. I love me some Oasis but I can probably think of at least 100 British songs that are better/more influential than cuts from Oasis' first two albums, which in fairness, contain some great tunes.

Oh, and you both forgot about Queen.

Oh I wasn't naming specifically British bands, just more bands that I noticed were not on the HOF list. Sorry for confusion.

Here is a list of artists who appeared on many of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame snubs lists I could dig up. I'm going to add all of them to my list of artists to listen to for my rainbow rankings lists. Any other well-known and/or influential artists missing?

B-52's
Bad Company
Ben E. King
Bjork
Black Flag
Bon Jovi
Boston
Brian Eno
Captain Beefheart
Chic
Def Leppard
Depeche Mode
Devo
Dick Dale
Dire Straits
Duran Duran
Electric Light Orchestra
Emerson, Lake, and Palmer
Eric B. and Rakim
Eurythmics
Gram Parsons
Iron Maiden
Janet Jackson
Jethro Tull
Jim Croce
Joan Baez
Joe Cocker
Journey
Joy Division
Judas Priest
Kansas
Kate Bush
King Crimson
Kraftwerk
Link Wray
LL Cool J
MC5
Meat Loaf
Megadeath
Motley Crue
Motorhead
New Order
New York Dolls
Nick Cave
Nine Inch Nails
Ozzy Osbourne
Pantera
Pat Benatar
Pavement
Peter Frampton
Phish
Pixies
Roxy Music
Slayer
Sonic Youth
Soundgarden
T. Rex
Ted Nugent
The Cars
The Cure
The Doobie Brothers
The Guess Who
The Marvelettes
The Monkees
The Moody Blues
The Replacements
The Smiths
The Zombies
Todd Rundgren
Warren Zevon
Weird Al' Yankovic
Whitney Houston
Willie Nelson
Yes

Alan Parsons Project should really be on that list. If not for their awesome music, at least for the fact that their song "The Raven" was very influential in terms of electronic effects to voices. Bad Religion too, it is because of them that we have bands like The Offspring and Rise Against. And Anthrax, they're one of the Big 4!

leetic wrote:Alan Parsons Project should really be on that list. If not for their awesome music, at least for the fact that their song "The Raven" was very influential in terms of electronic effects to voices. Bad Religion too, it is because of them that we have bands like The Offspring and Rise Against. And Anthrax, they're one of the Big 4!

Agreed with these!

I would also add Blue Oyster Cult, Can, Genesis, Radiohead, R.E.M., Rush, XTC, and I'm sure some others I'm forgetting. But definitely those. Not sure if they're all in the Hall of Fame though; I don't track it because I think their selection process is flawed and Radiohead and R.E.M. might be too young still.

Rush already got inducted. It was amazing.



Alex Lifeson had the best speech.

Damn straight.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

leetic wrote:Alan Parsons Project should really be on that list. If not for their awesome music, at least for the fact that their song "The Raven" was very influential in terms of electronic effects to voices. Bad Religion too, it is because of them that we have bands like The Offspring and Rise Against. And Anthrax, they're one of the Big 4!

Agreed with these!

I would also add Blue Oyster Cult, Can, Genesis, Radiohead, R.E.M., Rush, XTC, and I'm sure some others I'm forgetting. But definitely those. Not sure if they're all in the Hall of Fame though; I don't track it because I think their selection process is flawed and Radiohead and R.E.M. might be too young still.

Nirvana was inducted two years ago, and R.E.M. definitely came before them. Does that matter?

leetic wrote:Alan Parsons Project should really be on that list. If not for their awesome music, at least for the fact that their song "The Raven" was very influential in terms of electronic effects to voices. Bad Religion too, it is because of them that we have bands like The Offspring and Rise Against. And Anthrax, they're one of the Big 4!

I'd vote for Alan Parsons. His solo work was extensive and productive, not to mention the producing he did with Pink Floyd before that. I'm not familiar with Bad Religion, but I know the Offspring, and used to like Rise Against. That is noteworthy.




I agree with Epignosis, Alex Lifeson's HoF speech was excellent. I've watched it maybe a dozen times over the last couple years.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I agree with Epignosis,

I should be in the rock and roll hall of fame?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Alex Lifeson's HoF speech was excellent. I've watched it maybe a dozen times over the last couple years.

Oh.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

leetic wrote:Alan Parsons Project should really be on that list. If not for their awesome music, at least for the fact that their song "The Raven" was very influential in terms of electronic effects to voices. Bad Religion too, it is because of them that we have bands like The Offspring and Rise Against. And Anthrax, they're one of the Big 4!

Agreed with these!

I would also add Blue Oyster Cult, Can, Genesis, Radiohead, R.E.M., Rush, XTC, and I'm sure some others I'm forgetting. But definitely those. Not sure if they're all in the Hall of Fame though; I don't track it because I think their selection process is flawed and Radiohead and R.E.M. might be too young still.

Nirvana was inducted two years ago, and R.E.M. definitely came before them. Does that matter?

I think so; I think a certain amount of time has to have passed since the group's inception. Not 100% sure though.

From the aforementioned bands, Genesis, Rush, and R.E.M. have all been inducted. Genesis was inducted in 2010, R.E.M. in 2007, and Rush in 2013.

The standard rule is that a band or artist only becomes eligible to make the ballot 25 years after the release of their first album. Lately, they've restricted the number of inductees to five or six, even though the ballot sometimes contains up to 30 bands/artists. Because the HoF skews to the recording industry insiders and elitist music critics, they can be very subjective about which artists and genres deserve inclusion. From the Hall's website:

Artists—a group encompassing performers, composers and/or musicians—become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.

No offense to the Baby Boomer generation but the HoF strikes me as very Boomer-friendly. In some ways that makes sense, as rock-n-roll developed as Boomers were growing up. I feel though that there are a number of acts that got in there simply because they had one or two hit songs that made some recording executive on the nomination committee a lot of money. I grew up listening to "oldies" on the radio and there are some acts in the HoF that I had never heard before.

Another thing I see from looking at the spreadsheet I made of HoF members is that the HoF seems to be playing catch-up. They put a lot of sensible powerhouse bands in early that were the big names of rock history (Buddy Holly, Elvis, The Beatles, The Stones) but you have to remember that the Hall of Fame only opened in 1986. That means any bands/artists whose first albums came out in 1961 or earlier were all automatically eligible. Here's a breakdown of how many inductees are in the HoF based on the decade their first album came out:

1950s: 49
1960s: 102
1970s: 43
1980s: 14
1990s: 1

They're still putting bands who got their start in the 1960s into the Hall. That's why it's taken them so long to recognize so many of the important artists of the 1970s yet. Even though all of the artists launching careers in the 1980s are now eligible, it's going to be another 15 or so years before they really start inducting a broad range of artists and genres from the 80s. Every year there's at least one inductee who gets in by mercy because their contemporary interest or influence has waned but the nominating committee really wants them in there. Kind of like how sports halls of fame will induct obscure guys who just didn't make the cut the last nine times they were eligible. If not now, they may never get in. Perpetual catch-up.

That's not to mention the BS associated with who they continually snub. Why has Chic been snubbed for over 10 years running even though they had several hit songs and were influential to the funky sound of the disco era? Probably because ABBA, Donna Summer, and Heart made more money.

Another thing I find weird is how they rush some bands in out of chronological context. The only band starting in the 1990s in the HoF? Green Day. No, you did not misread that. Green Day's first album was crap and was cut on an independent record label when they were still in high school. They didn't hit it big until their third album came out in 1993 but they resurrected their career and made tons of money. Even though they were technically eligible, I don't think it's appropriate to induct a band from the post-grunge era before all the bands from the grunge era have become eligible for consideration.

I'm rambling and need to get back to work. Bye.

The 2017 nominees list was released today (I think). Here's a look at who is on the ballot and when their first album was released:

Bad Brains (1982)
The Cars (1978)
Chaka Khan (1978)
Chic (1977)
Depeche Mode (1981)
Electric Light Orchestra (1971)
J. Geils Band (1970)
Jane's Addiction (1988)
Janet Jackson (1982)
Joan Baez (1960)
Joe Tex (1964?)
Journey (1975)
Kraftwerk (1970)
MC5 (1969)
Pearl Jam (1991)
Steppenwolf (1968)
Tupac Shakur (1991)
Yes (1969)
The Zombies (1965)


Only five acts get inducted each year. Which five do you wan to get in and which five do you think will get in?

I want Yes, Bad Brains, Janet Jackson, Depeche Mode, and Kraftwerk.

But instead they will give it to Tupac Shakur, Journey, Pearl Jam, Electric Light Orchestra, and MC5.