The Syndicate

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:54 pm I'm basically voting alison today no matter what to give out a second track, but I'm worried if tutuu accepts her deal that might jeopardize that

You actually can't do this

I redirect votes to dizzy, so you'd be stealing dizzy's power

I don't actually know if you can "confirm" your acceptance of a bargain before EOD, since EOD is the deadline to confirm it. There was a host error on N1 where they told me someone (I think LC?) accepted my bargain way earlier than EOD but I'm not sure whether that acceptance is locked in or not or if LC could theoretically have changed his mind. If it's locked in then I probably just win and you guys go on with your day, if it's not locked in then I think they have to wait until EOD in case you change your mind

At any rate I certainly don't object you to sending in an accept early lol

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:57 pm @Alison if i reject ur offer and we yeet michelle and shes mafia and the game ends do u win or not win?

it would be 8 players after she gets yeeted, 4 of them being u or ppl u've made deals with, and 4 who havent

I need it to exceed, not equal, the people who I haven't bargained with, so I wouldn't win. I'm hoping that doesn't happen but obviously I can't really do anything about it if it does so all I can do is offer you a bargain and hope you accept or that you guys are wrong about michelle.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:55 am

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:47 am Also, you keep pushing an Alison chop while replying to older posts, even though in those older posts it's pointed out that any Alison chop will just affect Dizzy instead

I just found the post, but the votes from both Dizzy and tutuu are before Alison posted.
This is like a blackmail 'let yourself chopped because we trust Alison and Dizxy will die'
What I don't understand in that post, is Dizzy green checked by Alison? If so, it's so convenient.

Any votes placed on me will be redirected to Dizzy. That's part of my role, and I've said that from my very first post.

I gave Dizzy roleblock. Dizzy roleblocked JPIC. A nightkill happened. So JPIC is "green checked".

8

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:52 am but if that ends up being the case, it fine. i need to make a mistake eventually so i can find out what it feels like

what about when you got caught in christmas mafia because you claimed a mechanically impossible action in an open setup

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:54 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:52 amI am not sure about this, i think i can use it on her directly because it's not a vote, but idk

I think we should get clarification in this. It's pretty important.

Depends on how michelle's power works. If she switches votes then it won't work, if she directly decides the exe outcome then it will.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:59 am

Syn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:58 amliterally handed you guys the solve on a silver platter

I literally answered. I'm also able to think that far. But it doesn't solve the game if Alison is the one we need to care about.

I am not the one you need to care about. Go and find mafia. I am weary of townsiding like crazy and still being suspected out of blind paranoia.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:03 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:01 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:00 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:56 am There is one reason HK could be killed: Alison is the one we are looking for and HK was not a bargainee.

Why would mafia not kill a tracker or someone they knew had received a pro town power by Alison? This could be the reason me and LC are still alive.

Maybe I'm being dumb again. This game is just really puzzling right now.

Is this insane?

Doc dodge is possible for the HK kill

What doc?

My doc.

Kyle gave me a doctor power and I've been using it to protect bargainees who are town.

Also if it comes down to F3 the mafia probably want to curry favor with me in advance so I side with them.

[dropshadow=blue[/dropshadow]

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:05 am Wait thats right

Wat did alison do with her doc again?

Protect LC and Kyle

I just look for my name and respond to all the posts directly relevant to me and skim over everything else

Anyway I don't want to be exed. I'm benign 3P and I've given you all power I wouldn't have if I was hostile. I could have done stuff like claimed I don't count as a bargainee in order to mislead you about when I'd fulfil my win condition, and I didn't do so. I got a doctor ability and have been using it to shield confirmed town. "Everyone is so town let's just whack someone we know isn't mafia" is how towns eat themselves alive after long games and you know that.

Kindly refrain from trying to kill me. I am town's friend. Kill mafia instead.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:59 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:55 am I just look for my name and respond to all the posts directly relevant to me and skim over everything else

U also beat my ass in typeracee that one time we played ur like 300 APM clackclackclakcclackclack ive barelly written "henlo" and alison already wrote a 700 word essay on flash wagons and a 800 word essay on gender identity

Im on mobile right now so

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:12 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:00 am Anyway I don't want to be exed. I'm benign 3P and I've given you all power I wouldn't have if I was hostile. I could have done stuff like claimed I don't count as a bargainee in order to mislead you about when I'd fulfil my win condition, and I didn't do so. I got a doctor ability and have been using it to shield confirmed town. "Everyone is so town let's just whack someone we know isn't mafia" is how towns eat themselves alive after long games and you know that.

Kindly refrain from trying to kill me. I am town's friend. Kill mafia instead.

Who's mafia?

I don't know. I haven't read most of the thread except for skimming this day phase. Nor would you believe me anyway even if I told you who I thought mafia was, since if tutuu rejects my deal then a scum exe loses me the game.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:21 am Gambit demon is based off on a role from another game, right?

Does anyone know the GD win con from that game?

Make 7 bargains, or get someone to bargain with you thrice. As mentioned, after LC won with it he just sat around in the thread voting for whoever he wanted for fun.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:29 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:23 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:21 am Gambit demon is based off on a role from another game, right?
But this is
Does anyone know the GD win con from that game?

Make 7 bargains, or get someone to bargain with you thrice. As mentioned, after LC won with it he just sat around in the thread voting for whoever he wanted for fun.

How come he didn't leave the game when he won?

Host preference I guess. But this is also why I say it would be out of flavor for GD to be hostile or to kill all its bargainees, it was a true neutral role that game and afaict every other role has been the same alignment as the original

ok

What's the probability of mafia having a ninja or strongman? Or do you have mech info they don't?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:00 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:58 am What's the probability of mafia having a ninja or strongman? Or do you have mech info they don't?

No, we don't have that mech info. But I think it sounds highly unlikely they would have a permanent one. In fact, there was no kill one night, so they could not have a permanent strongman. The only that can screw us up there is if it's exactly Syn with exactly a permanent ninja role. Or exactly Tutu with exactly a role that is immune to any investigation what so ever.

Ok, so 4/5, mafia kills, 4/4 tomorrow, then you exe mafia to make it 4/3 and we win at the same time?

Alright, I'm cool. Ping me if there are any issues or questions or changes to the plan.

I'll offer disenfranchisement (wipe someone's vote) to Michelle tonight. Again, no reason for me not to. Just letting you know in advance

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:15 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:08 am I'll offer disenfranchisement (wipe someone's vote) to Michelle tonight. Again, no reason for me not to. Just letting you know in advance

That means I would be a bad person to not accept.
When should I confirm this?

You'll receive a PM tonight letting you know you've been offered disenfranchisement, you can privately message the host to accept

Hm, wait, dizzy's plan doesn't work for me if mafia kill a bargainee

4/5, after night is 3/5, mafia outed, you exe, is 3/4

so there's a chance I lose if we follow this plan

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:24 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:19 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:15 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:12 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:11 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:10 am I am extremely upset that Kyle desconsidered the convo we had yday with LC when he said he will not take anyone from the poll. Stealing LCs ability and use it is antitown.
Taking exactly tutuu who was a CFD attempt from HK looks very bad especially after HKs flip.
Why died HK?
Why let mafia Kyle to help town so much? Something is not right

LC said he wasn't going to use it but did it anyway

LC didn't use it, Kyle used it on tutuu today after stealing it

LC claimed he used it on dizzy at the start of the day. obvs we know kyle stole it, but the intent was still there

I see.

My question stays, why is not mafia killing Kyle, who is constantly helping town apparently, and is not protected since forever? Why HK?

presumably because alison is the one making the kills and she is leaving kyle and LC and dizzy alive because they are bargainees to fulfill her wincon and out of the people who aren't bargainees she decided hollowkat was the hardest to mischop

I'm a 3P, I'm not making any kills. I strongly signalled I was protecting bargainees last night and mafia can't afford to miss a kill, plus they know if they kill a bargainee I'll be annoyed at them and townside during F3.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:08 am I'll offer disenfranchisement (wipe someone's vote) to Michelle tonight. Again, no reason for me not to. Just letting you know in advance

it's really up to you obviously but lost restriction would probably be less dangerous in this game state I think :0

Already gave that to Made.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:30 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:29 amnope, I don't think so

Oh, I thought he was, but I can't keep track. In that case, Alison still makes some sense here. And then it also makes sense HK with a useless power died in front of me and LC.

This argument is bad.

Mafia has strong incentive not to kill off my bargainees because I said I was protecting them. Mafia has strong incentive not to piss me off because there's a decent chance I'll be a kingmaker during F3 if they survive that long. You're also assuming that I'll only target non-bargainees if I inherited the mafia kill (which is not a mechanic I've ever seen on the syndicate btw, and didn't happen in radiohead, shadow corridors where the original Gambit Demon occurred, etc.). If I was a hostile 3P here it would make more sense to kill off investigatives even if they're bargainees, because then the rest of the town has no way to get mech info on each other and will eat themselves until I win anyway.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:36 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:30 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:29 amnope, I don't think so

Oh, I thought he was, but I can't keep track. In that case, Alison still makes some sense here. And then it also makes sense HK with a useless power died in front of me and LC.

This argument is bad.

Mafia has strong incentive not to kill off my bargainees because I said I was protecting them. Mafia has strong incentive not to piss me off because there's a decent chance I'll be a kingmaker during F3 if they survive that long. You're also assuming that I'll only target non-bargainees if I inherited the mafia kill (which is not a mechanic I've ever seen on the syndicate btw, and didn't happen in radiohead, shadow corridors where the original Gambit Demon occurred, etc.). If I was a hostile 3P here it would make more sense to kill off investigatives even if they're bargainees, because then the rest of the town has no way to get mech info on each other and will eat themselves until I win anyway.

thats only if ur a hostile 3p with the "last woman standing" wincon

if ur a hostile 3p that said the truth about ur wincon then ur incentivized to kill non-bargainees and win the game today/tomorrow

If I'm a hostile 3P that said the truth about my wincon then I still win if I kill investigative bargainees because town will eat themselves with no mech info I'll win by having Kyle alive at the end of the game. Or even play as "last woman standing" and win with 1 bargainee (myself) to 0. In contrast if I leave investigatives alive just because they're bargainees then they'll mech solve the game and I'll get exed out of paranoia.

If you wanna call it WIFOM go ahead but don't pretend like "HK killed -> Alison is hostile 3P", that makes no sense.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit mafia, I lose 4/4, unless tutuu accepts my bargain.

If you no exe and mafia kills a bargainee, and they're outed tomorrow like has been planned, I lose 3/4 even if mafia is a non-bargainee.

If you no exe and mafia kills a non bargainee and is outed, I win 4/3 if they're a non bargainee.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit town, and mafia kills a non bargainee, I win 4/3.

If you exe a non bargainee and hit town and mafia kills a bargainee I lose.

So no matter what I should rand my protect between bargainees (probably weighted by how juicy a kill they are for mafia) tonight. If tutuu would kindly accept my bargain, I have more assurance of winning, otherwise my win condition is essentially determined by the actions of other people (if you choose to exe/nightkill bargainees or non bargainees)

I'm gonna be kinda tilted if we no exe, mafia shoots a bargainee and is outed and I lose after carrying the town as 3P.

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:56 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:54 am

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:52 am Kyle's the one who's doing the bargaining for Alison now, correct? And he's also responsible for Tutuu being off the polls, right?

Kyle only bargained with Alison once from stealing her role, I think. Alison is the one doing the bargaining.

And yeah, Kyle removed Tutu from the poll today. To be fair, Tutu is green checked.

Oh, so it was only for that one night?

@Alison Can you confirm this? Are you back to directly making bargains with people, or does Kyle permanently have that power now?

Yeah, I choose the bargains now.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:58 am @Alison if i accept ur bargain today and we yeet non-bargainee mafia today we all win

so help us find the mafia and i accept ur bargain?

Fine.

Non bargainee mafia we can exe today are michelle, syn, hyena, JPIC.

JPIC only scum if ninja or if there's 2.

Michelle not scum unless the scum team is crazy.

Syn we have no mech on iirc.

I can't remember the mech on Hyena but I think there was some.

You also don't lose anything by it and you avoid screwing me over after I helped you out. Like if I help you catch the mafia today, you exe them and she doesn't accept then I lost despite heavily townsiding and that would be a dick move.

Strongman, sorry, not ninja. But there was a nokill one night so mafia doesn't have a strongman. So JPIC is only scum if there's two. If Michelle's claim checks out then she can only be scum with Dizzy because I think nook and Sloonei at least would pressure her to use it earlier.

Michelle can in theory be scum with Dizzy, she has some other role and they conspired to make it seem like she has a role that a scum would have used long ago. What is our mech on Dizzy?

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:13 pm i also thought that dizzy + michelle team mechanically can make sense, it would explain wilgy getting dizzy's role from michelle (michelle could be the mafia 1-shot protector) and dizzy could be whatever role. dizzy could have manufactured that fake claim for michelle coz its super towny and michelle gets away with it

Michelle's role can be proven.

We assume Michelle is town and select an exe based on that. Then we vote Michelle, and if Michelle is mafia she dies. If she's town she redirects the exe to whoever we selected.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:18 pm Dizzy very likely town from my PoV due to the roleblock and tightening the PoE

Dizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

If there is no more use for Michelle's claimed power than it's always optimal to vote her and let her redirect the exe to whoever we agree upon.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:25 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:18 pm Dizzy very likely town from my PoV due to the roleblock and tightening the PoE

Dizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

Wouldn't it have made more sense if dizzy roleblocked you and killed LC?

I can't double target; I was on dizzy last night not LC.

But also, Dizzy would still have to account for his roleblock the next day. So he would be outed if he used it to stop a doctor protecting people. And because I'd be told my attempts to offer a bargain failed, they'd know I was roleblocked and Dizzy was the one with the roleblock.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:27 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:25 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:18 pm Dizzy very likely town from my PoV due to the roleblock and tightening the PoE

Dizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

Wouldn't it have made more sense if dizzy roleblocked you and killed LC?

he gets redirected and roleblocks himself i think? i dunno (if that, or if he would have gotten redirected to the previous bargainee - the dead made)

I chose to redirect votes for dizzy, not actions.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:26 pm michelle cant be the 1-shot night protector though (the role wilgy peeked)

because kyle would have saw it when he stole from michelle, and he didnt

so i dunno.

is it just syn?

or there is a team of 2 mafia members thats screwing up the authenticity of the mech

2 mafia members would ruin all the mech we have.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:38 pm I feel like the number of people who kill HK should be a pretty narrow margin right? am I wrong in thinking HK was widely town read? why kill HK over someone with a more threatening role that would be harder to yeet?

Most of the people that mafia would want to kill are hnder doctor aegis.

Alternative theory is that HK was killed for being tracked nowhere in order to imply that tracked nowhere -> green check when mafia have 2 members or a ninja. I don't know how many people in this game would think that way if they were mafia but it's something I would consider I think.

What is the argument for no exeing? By my count it doesn't give town an extra exe whether there's 1 or 2 mafia members.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:56 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:47 pm What is the argument for no exeing? By my count it doesn't give town an extra exe whether there's 1 or 2 mafia members.

Tell me is any mechanically cleared without a bargain with you?

You are for all intents and purposes mechanically cleared, because we're going to vote you to check your claim and you're either going to die as an outed wolf or you'll be cleared at EOD.

JPIC is only scum if there's 2 wolves.

Hyena and Syn are uncleared.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:02 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:56 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:47 pm What is the argument for no exeing? By my count it doesn't give town an extra exe whether there's 1 or 2 mafia members.

Tell me is any mechanically cleared without a bargain with you?

You are for all intents and purposes mechanically cleared, because we're going to vote you to check your claim and you're either going to die as an outed wolf or you'll be cleared at EOD.

JPIC is only scum if there's 2 wolves.

Hyena and Syn are uncleared.

Proving Michelle's ability doesn't clear her alignment-wise.

It pseudo-clears her alignment because if she was wolf with a poll changing ability she'd almost certainly have used it earlier.

I could choose night actions for tutuu, yes.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:21 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:43 pm please choose night actions for tutuu

I promise to campaign against your yeet especially hard if you do so

@Alison

ok

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:21 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 pmDizzy was publicly known to be a roleblocker. He had to roleblock someone. It doesn't matter anyway since Michelle's claim can be tested.

Only you knew I was roleblocker.

No, I openly said I'd offer you roleblocker and you accepted in the thread.