The Syndicate

Why does TH randomly bus Quin when both myself and Marmot were easy to justify pushing on though? I don't really get the sense that TH is someone who busses a lot as scum

oh, I actually misremembered, TH didn't attack Quin particularly hard

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:35 pm also update TH has absolutely zero posts that I would call "bussing Quin"

yes I got mixed up I think

ok

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:35 pm I actually suspect Hyena now for this outlandish fearmongering. It was cute in the punk chat but I think they're taking it a bit too far. This theory could lead to a few mislynches.

what is hyena fearmongering about? all their theories have revolved around is how many scum are in the punk chat

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:37 pm It's you that TH tried to bus, huh Alison?

I'm sort of tired of you coming up every like 15 minutes to randomly tinfoil me. You've done it on and off every game we've played together since Space Invaders. See: "Alison is scum because she forgot to submit a night action in Philosopher's Mafia", "Alison is scum because she posted a meme in Grasslands Mafia". I don't know whether you're doing it consciously or not or if you're just paranoid and don't want to be fooled again.

In this case you should realize that if TH/Alison is the team that we would have no reason for TH to make a case on Alison because 1) Alison is the one that you'd send deep in that world and 2) scum isn't going to start killing each other in this gamestate, where 2 scum were shot D1 and the thread is in enough confusion to get away with misexing townies.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:42 pm So I am worried Alison is hard pushing two mafia in the chat as out if themselves/TSP/NUTELLA they are always getting voted out.

what does this mean

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:42 pm I have a stupid reason to town clear Alison. It's not going to affect my read because Alison is definitely the kind of wolf player to play for this reason, but I'm bringing it up to acknowledge its existence.

tell me what the reason is so I can fake it in future games for free towncred

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:45 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:43 pm

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:42 pm So I am worried Alison is hard pushing two mafia in the chat as out if themselves/TSP/NUTELLA they are always getting voted out.

what does this mean

Out if those three you are the most likely mafia outside the chat.

So as mafia pushing the chat having two wolfs after someone else mentioned it would make sense from your PoV.

There are actual reasons to believe the chat has two wolves, but also why would that be alignment indicative

like why would town Alison not believe that the chat has two wolves here

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:46 pm Punk Chat plus marmot contains probably like 160-170 percent of the wolves if there are two remaining. I'd therefore have to vote for Marmot if not for the fact that there can be two wolves in punk chat proper

why is marmot the wolf if there are two wolves in punk + marmot?

[VOTE: Turnip Head] aubergine

One more please, I hate rands.

I still think TL is the exe but TH/TL is a possible team and I didn't like the shade on Hyena. Plus I still townread Quin so.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:59 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:59 pm What town things did Quin say??

Came into the thread, yelled at everyone, left

yelled at Mac not to shoot FG*

marmot switched over

is the thread locked now?

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:08 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:59 pm anyway if you believe that lost wolf is in the punk gang and can't kill until they're sole scum then TSP is mechanically cleared given he was roleblocked night before last.

Is he? I thought the roleblock wasn't 100% and had a chance of failing?

This post is written by me, I sent it from the wrong account because it's 8 in the morning and I'm a fucking doofus. Don't comment any more about the fact that I'm using a different account because it pertains to a currently ongoing game.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:10 pm Our roleblock has a chance of failing, but not because of a randomized dice roll, rather because of other mechanics in the game that might exist.

I see.

The initial thought I leapt to was "mafia has a strongman ability", but if it's passive then TSP should have been able to attack past it, and if it's limited shot then TSP wouldn't have used it N1 since he was treated as super town at that point in time. The other possibility is that mafia has some degree of control over the roleblock as was theorized earlier.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:13 pm Don’t delete anything please, just leave it as is and everyone pretend nothing happened. Thanks.

Yeah no worries. So sorry for the fuckup, I'm sleepy and make dumb mistakes.

Quin why did you want to roleblock me yesterday?

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:57 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:07 pm Things really popped off in punk chat between me+Trustworthy plus Quin.

ok so like

TL believes nutella is lost wolf and that lost wolf will only gain a kill when/if they become the last scum standing

so why does TL insist on RB nutella last night "in case she has a night kill" if he doesn't think shes the last scum standing (hasn't contested the idea of 4 scum, meaning 2 are currently alive)

[mention]Trustworthy Liberal[/mention] You said you were back on nutella being town last EOD. Why is she the lost wolf now? And what happened to your read on me?

Can the punk gang roleblock punk gang members? TH's role card didn't specify.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:23 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:21 pm Can the punk gang roleblock punk gang members? TH's role card didn't specify.

I have no reason to believe we can't.

Why not vote to roleblock TL then?

I guess it doesn't matter if Hyena and TL were voting to block nutella anyway.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:27 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:25 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:23 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:21 pm Can the punk gang roleblock punk gang members? TH's role card didn't specify.

I have no reason to believe we can't.

Why not vote to roleblock TL then?

1. Because I think punk gang scum is LW and can't kill. I've got a 33% chance roleblocking an OG threader.

Yeah, that's fair.

How can nutella be mafia? Since when are mafia allowed to make multiple daykills lol

Yes I know abilities aren't indicative of alignment but I'm talking about balance here, unless one of you has an atom bomb in your back pocket there's no way that giving a mafia member at least two daykills isn't ludicrously scumsided, and I think nanook does try to balance his setups. (And there's no way that nutella rolls scum with a daykill and immediately shoots her own buddy who had no pressure on him at all.)

I'm thinking that TL is the lost wolf and they wanted to block the one person they were sure wasn't their wolf buddy, only to get fucked by Marmot randomly redirecting the RB. I'm thinking TL/TSP and TSP got roleblocked is the world that makes the most sense.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:34 pm Alison, you have not commented on my receiving knowledge that I can kill you. Any reaction, or perhaps insight on why your role might be a target?

I don't know why my role might be a target. I theorized before that it targeted roles with the suffix "Man" and mine doesn't have "Man" in it. Not sure what else I can say about it other than "don't shoot me" :P

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:36 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:34 pm Alison, you have not commented on my receiving knowledge that I can kill you. Any reaction, or perhaps insight on why your role might be a target?

I don't know why my role might be a target. I theorized before that it targeted roles with the suffix "Man" and mine doesn't have "Man" in it. Not sure what else I can say about it other than "don't shoot me" :P

And "if you are thinking of shooting me, give me some time to drop legacy reads first" I guess, although I think it's never right to shoot me in this gamestate when we are fairly sure there's at least 1 wolf in the punks and the mafia kill didn't happen on a night TSP was supposedly roleblocked

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:36 pm If we're talking about game balance, explain to me how a 5-mason team with a spokesperson keeping the other 4 safe from lynching/targetting from Day 1 can exist without there being at least one mafia and still be balanced.

I don't think this is the case, I think there's a wolf in the punks. I specifically called out TL as being a likely candidate for wolf and was pushing him all yesterday.

I think nutella is town and I know I'm town so the worlds I'm looking at are TSP + 1 in punks (which would make Marmot almost certainly town for redirecting the target to him), and 2 in punks.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:39 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:34 pm I'm thinking that TL is the lost wolf and they wanted to block the one person they were sure wasn't their wolf buddy, only to get fucked by Marmot randomly redirecting the RB. I'm thinking TL/TSP and TSP got roleblocked is the world that makes the most sense.

And you think they don't know who their teammate is and they're "sure" that nutella was not the wolf buddy because of your hypothesis that nutella's role is too powerful to be a scum role?

and nutella just being townie in general, yes

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:41 pm wait did I got shot

or did you get stopped from doing the shooting

Being roleblocked gives you a "you were roleblocked message". We know this because TSP came into the thread asking why he got blocked.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:59 pm anyway if you believe that lost wolf is in the punk gang and can't kill until they're sole scum then TSP is mechanically cleared given he was roleblocked night before last.

TSP did not claim being blocked the night before last. Ergo he was not blocked the night before last, and your roleblock failed somehow. So TSP is not mechanically confirmed.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 pm Being roleblocked gives you a "you were roleblocked message". We know this because TSP came into the thread asking why he got blocked.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:59 pm anyway if you believe that lost wolf is in the punk gang and can't kill until they're sole scum then TSP is mechanically cleared given he was roleblocked night before last.

TSP did not claim being blocked the night before last. Ergo he was not blocked the night before last, and your roleblock failed somehow. So TSP is not mechanically confirmed.

[mention]Hyena[/mention]

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:32 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:30 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:16 pm You already responded to my explanation.

You switched targets to someone I believe to be mechanically cleared. I'm going to need you to elaborate.

There was a chance that mafia knew who we were blocking last night, thus having a different member of their team perform the kill. I opted to switch our roleblock because in that event, it was more likely to succeed.

What do you think about the fact that there was no nightkill?

Protector.

You think there's both a doc and a bodyguard?

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:57 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:53 pm Being roleblocked gives you a "you were roleblocked message". We know this because TSP came into the thread asking why he got blocked.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:59 pm anyway if you believe that lost wolf is in the punk gang and can't kill until they're sole scum then TSP is mechanically cleared given he was roleblocked night before last.

TSP did not claim being blocked the night before last. Ergo he was not blocked the night before last, and your roleblock failed somehow. So TSP is not mechanically confirmed.

Not necessarily. If I'm meant to be dead right now, there's only a couple of reasons why that may not be so. And he *did* assume he was roleblocked the other night. It doesn't sound like he got a message then.

Hmmmmmmm

I think I see something that may make Quin lock town but I don't think it's a good idea to say it out loud right now. But my townread on Quin is a lot stronger now.

TSP, why did you assume Quin would be gone?

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:01 pm if marmot wanted to cancel it he would've just voted Alison with me. But that would have lead to questions.

I thought Marmot can't vote??

Never voting Quin or nutella today. Probably not voting Hyena today.

My POE is TL > TSP > Marmot.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:02 pm like i have a theory that marmot switched the RB from nutella because he knows she's bad and needs a kill to go through

their double team on me for tmi just now is affirming that a bit

I'm asking because nobody has claimed being a protector. Rather, everyone has claimed or is clearly some other ability with the exception of Alison, but she's countering your suggestion.

Based on this, I don't see anyone being a possible protector.

Don't fish for PRs please.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:09 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:06 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:02 pm like i have a theory that marmot switched the RB from nutella because he knows she's bad and needs a kill to go through

their double team on me for tmi just now is affirming that a bit

I'm asking because nobody has claimed being a protector. Rather, everyone has claimed or is clearly some other ability with the exception of Alison, but she's countering your suggestion.

Based on this, I don't see anyone being a possible protector.

Don't fish for PRs please.

I really think it's the time to just have our cards out, if you have an argument as to why that's dangerous then fine but like mafia already know things that we don't and getting more info out in the open can help us solve this

I was fully expecting to be NKed for my role already so like, whatever

If there's a protector shouldn't you want them to stay hidden so you can stay alive?

Then how did TSP know you blocked him today? He asked "who blocked me" so he can't have known by reading the thread, since if he had he'd know who blocked him.

TSP came into this thread knowing he was blocked.

He didn't know who blocked him, which means he didn't acquire that information by reading the thread.

Ergo nanook sent him a message saying he was blocked.

TSP did not claim a block N2.

Ergo nanook did not send him a message saying he was blocked.

We know the block only works sometimes, and operates by some secret mechanic nobody knows anything about.

Occam's Razor: TSP was not blocked N2 because of [however the block mechanic works], and neither was Poison. TSP was blocked N3 because he got the "blocked" message.

Another note: TSP cannot have been blocked N2. He claimed to visit Sloonei and originally thought he gave Sloonei the note and/or killed him. Meaning that he thought his visit on Sloonei was successful, meaning that he did not get a "blocked" message.

I don't know why the block failed N2, but it must have. There's no other explanation that makes sense based on the claims we have on the table.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:05 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:03 pm TSP came into this thread knowing he was blocked.

He didn't know who blocked him, which means he didn't acquire that information by reading the thread.

Ergo nanook sent him a message saying he was blocked.

TSP did not claim a block N2.

Ergo nanook did not send him a message saying he was blocked.

We know the block only works sometimes, and operates by some secret mechanic nobody knows anything about.

Occam's Razor: TSP was not blocked N2 because of [however the block mechanic works], and neither was Poison. TSP was blocked N3 because he got the "blocked" message.

How else could his night action (locking up Quin) be stopped then?

He tried to lock up Quin N3. He was blocked N3, but not N2.

TSP's claimed actions:

N1 - Lock up Alison (no block, no target, went through)
N2 - Use a mysterious positive effect on Sloonei (targeted with a roleblock, but was not blocked - didn't receive a blocked message - we can't confirm whether or not his action went through)
N3 - Lock up Quin (targeted with a roleblock, but was blocked for sure - Quin wasn't locked up)

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:07 pm He was blocked both N2 AND N3.

No, you targeted him N2 and N3, but he didn't get a block message N2. He did get a block message N3. That suggests that the roleblock did not work N2 - and Marmot said that whether or not the roleblocks work are determined by an unknown mechanic.

If he got a blocked message N2 he would not come out assuming that he was responsible for giving the note to and/or killing Sloonei.

How the fuck did you know you were blocked but not who blocked you

If you saw enough of the thread to know quin was in it wouldn't you have seen that the punk gang openly claimed a block on you

ok

Suppose TSP found out he was blocked by glimpsing Quin in the thread, but not seeing that the punk gang blocked him, somehow

Then either he was blocked from carrying out the kill or a doc exists and protected the target

how do we know tsp was blocked n2?

This mech is a bit more tricky than I thought. I'm going to go take a nap, it's really getting late and I have school after. I'll figure all this mess out during my class break.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:25 pm If I lock up Quin, Quin's night actions fail on the nights without Quin. Quin can't make kills, and Quin can't control punk chat. It extends town's clock and gets two clears with blocks.

Is that including the night you targeted quin?