The Syndicate

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:26 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:25 pm If I lock up Quin, Quin's night actions fail on the nights without Quin. Quin can't make kills, and Quin can't control punk chat. It extends town's clock and gets two clears with blocks.
Is that including the night you targeted quin?

Also if this is true then this clears me, because sloonei was killed while I was locked up

It would explain why TSP didn't OMGUS me yesterday

So what, if we live in a world where TSP is town, is there just two mafia in punks? TL and marmot framing TSP for it all?

I'm going to bed for real, I'm getting a sleep deprivation headache and rl comes first. See you

i got insomnia so back for a bit

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:40 pm Did we... ever? get a claim from Alison? Or like a real claim from Marmot?

i have made no claims

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:14 pm btw there's a dominant strategy for Nutella using her kill shot thing if we had locked up Quin and she knew her target which ... has it been explained how Nutella knows her target?

no it hasn't

I think it's TL/Marmot.

Marmot seemed to get a lot more flatfooted after I started turning around on TSP and was pretty strongly angling for a TSP exe earlier.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:48 am Also Alison weren’t you supposed to be sleeping?

Insomnia. Woke up and went out.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:47 am Shoot Alison, hammer sleep if flips town something if flips maf, maybe block me /again/ and go to f5 with mechs? Seems meh

Shooting the person who is confirmed to have been unable to submit nightkills the night Sloonei died seems extremely suboptimal

also I don't trust the roleblock to give us auto since nanook gave it a failure mode for a reason

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:49 am Alison can you claim note sender

i am not note sender

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:50 am Why the heck are the wolves helping town

well I doubt that the wolves are helping town consciously. my current ideas are:

1) it's not intentional - giving town scraps of info is a side effect of some other ability they're using and is a downside to balance it. problem with this theory is that giving town info is a pretty big downside so the ability must be seriously powerful, yet we've seen nothing that helps scum to that extent.

2) the wolves are writing the notes themselves and putting misleading info into the notes.

3) some hidden mechanic is giving us the notes - there's nothing that says the events that happen this game have to be directly triggered by a player. many games have background mechanics and it wouldn't be completely nonsensical for a game like this to be "you have a bunch of redactions and mystery effects in your role PMs, but you get scraps of info to fill in the blanks a little better as time goes by"

I have reasons to think a mass claim is anti town and that's all I'm saying on the matter. I am somewhat confident nutella has also picked it up and has the same feeling. She was pushing for roleclaims earlier and isn't any more.

If it's 2 then I would heavily suspect that there's 2 wolves in the punk chat and they wrote the lost wolf in because they were upset at how many people in the main thread got spewed town off LC/Vulgard and wanted to cast doubt on associative reads by bringing in the existence of a lost wolf.

Also there's a mysterious mechanic that decides whether the punk roleblock goes through. If it's 3) and the notes were sent by a hidden mechanic then Occam's Razor says that both of those mechanics are linked somehow.

Maybe the mafia can veto the roleblock in exchange for giving town info, or something. Sort of a mix of 1) and 3).

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:06 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:58 am Also there's a mysterious mechanic that decides whether the punk roleblock goes through. If it's 3) and the notes were sent by a hidden mechanic then Occam's Razor says that both of those mechanics are linked somehow.
I mean FG's flipped role was at least part if not all of the mechanic regarding the rb, or at least that seems to be the consensus interpretation

I guess? It feels instinctively weird for nanook to add a roleblock, and then have one player in the entire game who's immune to that roleblock, and then go and be like "YOUR ROLEBLOCK MAY NOT WORK FOR MYSTERIOUS REASONS", but I guess it's not beyond nanook

Hello, I won't have much time to be posting in this game today because I have about 10 responsibilities to juggle today. Ping me if something big happens, thanks.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:25 am You should all be concerned about the lack of resistance to my votes today, as well as after the explosion of discussion we had at the beginning of the day, that things have fallen off to a lazy wimper.

Can't speak for others but US election handling has affected the amount of free time I have to spend playing mafia, and I might not be the only one.

I'm not voting you today.

[unvote][/unvote]

Thinking about where to place my vote. Currently leaning Marmot. I think this exchange spews TL town.

I'm actually legitimately going to black out from sleep deprivation soon so I'll just vote Marmot.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Good night.

Just go ahead, I won't end the day early. I voted you before remembering the hammering rule but unvoted soon after. Not my intention to hammer, and I'm sure the others in the game can push the wagon through anyway.

Sorry if I accidentally hammered, it's late. You'll probably still have time to do a full legacy anyway so it won't make a difference.

I'm around now. Didn't expect the night to be so short.

I'm a Paranoid Architect. I have a Nemesis. I don't know who that Nemesis is or what their alignment is. I can target someone at night. If I detect any motion during the night (ie. the person I targeted made a night action, or someone made a night action on them), and my Nemesis is one of the people moving, something (I don't know what) happens to the Nemesis, I'm assuming it's negative. I will be informed if that happens and told exactly what I did to them.

I submitted a target on Poison N1 and Sloonei N2. No shots left after that. Was not notified of doing anything to my Nemesis.

I thought Quin was softing protective due to the way they were unusually insistent that the kill was not roleblocked and that it was healed by a protective role. That's why I didn't want a mass claim (and seeing that TL is now claiming the healer and Quin wasn't, I was justified in that, if for the wrong reasons), and why I was tight-lipped about my own role.

TSP why do you say that you can't be scum with anyone except nutella?

I took into consideration the possibility that my Nemesis might have some way to hurt me, since the word Nemesis does imply a two-way relationship. The other reason was to cover up for Quin and maybe draw a nightkill if scum thinks I'm the doc.

Oh yes, I forgot to add, I asked nook if the Nemesis knows who I am, and nook says that the Nemesis doesn't know that they're my Nemesis but might receive clues that something is going on, depending on my actions (I took this to mean that they'd be notified if they tripped my ability). Part of the reason I was so insistent on the "mysterious mechanism that controls the punk chat" is because I was suspecting that the punk chat roleblock would not work if my Nemesis tried to use it on me or something along those lines.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:42 am I thought Quin was softing protective due to the way they were unusually insistent that the kill was not roleblocked and that it was healed by a protective role. That's why I didn't want a mass claim (and seeing that TL is now claiming the healer and Quin wasn't, I was justified in that, if for the wrong reasons), and why I was tight-lipped about my own role.

TSP why do you say that you can't be scum with anyone except nutella?
I’m very obviously not scum with you, if I’m scum with a punk chatter it’d have to be hyena and TL would be freaking out about now

Why aren't you scum with TL?

I think I've been spewed town by gamestate honestly. That quickhammer on Quin before he spoke a single word points that there's a strong scum presence in the thread, which means there's two mafia in the thread on the day you hammered Quin early. (That was pretty shoddy play by the way, for all you know Quin had an IC ability or something similar.) Also townies died on the night I was targeted to be locked up as well as the night after the day I was locked up.

nutella probably would have just shot me if she was scum. If she's wolf I've outed myself as blatantly town so if she doesn't blast my head off right now to win the game then you can trust her. So there's two scum in Hyena/TL/TSP. Hyena can only be scum with exactly TL, since TL says that they have mech cleared Hyena. So the possible teams are:

Hyena/TL
TL/TSP

If my analysis is correct then TL is the correct vote for today, but if anyone has other mech analysis to make I'm willing to hear it.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:56 am I think I've been spewed town by gamestate honestly. That quickhammer on Quin before he spoke a single word points that there's a strong scum presence in the thread, which means there's two mafia in the thread on the day you hammered Quin early. (That was pretty shoddy play by the way, for all you know Quin had an IC ability or something similar.) Also townies died on the night I was targeted to be locked up as well as the night after the day I was locked up.

nutella probably would have just shot me if she was scum. If she's wolf I've outed myself as blatantly town so if she doesn't blast my head off right now to win the game then you can trust her. So there's two scum in Hyena/TL/TSP. Hyena can only be scum with exactly TL, since TL says that they have mech cleared Hyena. So the possible teams are:

Hyena/TL
TL/TSP

If my analysis is correct then TL is the correct vote for today, but if anyone has other mech analysis to make I'm willing to hear it.
Nutellas shot isn't gurentied and also has been seen to miss multiple times.
Also you would rather kill the claimed Doctor who did the only two things last night to prevent a LOST

nutella's shot is guaranteed on me - she has info that I count as a "right person" for her. She only misses if the person isn't right. You can argue that she was lying about it or whatever but she came out with this claim pretty early in the game so I doubt she tailored it for her own convenience during this situation.

Do we have hard evidence that your ability prevented a nightkill? I ask this because there are roleblocks in the game (punk and TSP's jailkeeper ability) so I can't trust that you aren't just pretending that you stopped a nightkill. Also frankly given the amount of town KP in the game, along with the warning that abilities aren't alignment indicative, I think a mafia day doctor or something similar does make sense as a role.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:01 am If i was mafia MAFIA WOULD HAVE WON LAST NIGHT.

Why?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:01 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:51 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:42 am I thought Quin was softing protective due to the way they were unusually insistent that the kill was not roleblocked and that it was healed by a protective role. That's why I didn't want a mass claim (and seeing that TL is now claiming the healer and Quin wasn't, I was justified in that, if for the wrong reasons), and why I was tight-lipped about my own role.

TSP why do you say that you can't be scum with anyone except nutella?
I’m very obviously not scum with you, if I’m scum with a punk chatter it’d have to be hyena and TL would be freaking out about now
Why aren't you scum with TL?
Me and TL controlled all of the night actions last night. There’s no way we could have had a no kill.

I thought TL claimed that Hyena controlled the punk chat roleblocks every night.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:59 am Either way its Alison and TSP 90% of the time here with a small chance Nutella over TSP.
Alison had one claim in which i think they weren't mafia and they arn't it so They can die.

1) I'm literally spewed town

2) #2618 is not a post you make when talking to someone you are 100% sure is scum.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:03 am
last night i was in charge of the RB and if i didn't like could have made it tie with Hyena and made it not target.
TSP was RBed last night and thouse couldn't have blocked the kill.

IF I WAS MAFIA KILL HAPPENS AND I WIN.
IF HYENA WAS MAFIA KILL HAPPENS AND THEY WIN.

There are possible lost wolves in this setup. We cannot mech clear a possible wolf pairing simply because they were uncoordinated. The only one I'm mech clearing is nutella for not shooting me, since if she was mafia she would know I wasn't the lost wolf by now.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:06 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:02 am
Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:01 am If i was mafia MAFIA WOULD HAVE WON LAST NIGHT.
Why?
Cause i know all info of night actions and had the power to just RB the jailkeeper in which we did.

That... is not true, actually.

If you are mafia you don't know what the lost wolf is doing. If you oppose Hyena on the roleblock that's outing yourself. If Hyena is town, you would be tied on the roleblock vote, no roleblock would happen, and then TSP is free to go around protecting townies and Hyena would come out tomorrow and say "hey TL outed as a wolf in the punk chat, get 'em".

Also I'm sorry if this has been claimed but does anyone know why the night was shortened?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:13 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:12 am Also I'm sorry if this has been claimed but does anyone know why the night was shortened?
quick hammer all actions in nanook thought eh?

Can't be a universal policy to quickhammer night actions because all previous nights have taken the full day or more. nanook also complained at one point that resolving night actions was hard for him due to the role madness here so a literal 30 minute night seems unlikely.

Ugh actually I just realized that if nutella was mafia it would have to be X-shot since it doesn't seem likely that a mafia dayvig gets unlimited shots for obvious reasons. That means she could have run out of shots after Enrique and was just faking shots afterwards. If that was the case she can't clear herself by virtue of not having shot me.

She did kill LC though which I think is pretty out of her scum range so if nutella is mafia then there has to be a lost wolf and either she is lost or LC is lost.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:19 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:17 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:13 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:12 am Also I'm sorry if this has been claimed but does anyone know why the night was shortened?
quick hammer all actions in nanook thought eh?
Can't be a universal policy to quickhammer night actions because all previous nights have taken the full day or more. nanook also complained at one point that resolving night actions was hard for him due to the role madness here so a literal 30 minute night seems unlikely.
.....less hard when there are five players alive and they're all online to agree to it

but only the ones who have night actions would know that and tsp is mafia lol

I didn't agree to a shortened night and expected to be taking it easy and just spectating the thread for the next three days. Did you get offered a shortened night?

This thread is moving way too fast for me to keep up since there's complicated mechanical info happening lol.

TL there is a huge problem with your logic actually.

If there's a lost wolf it's not guaranteed that the person in the punk chat carries the kill. In fact it's more likely that any wolve(s) in the punk chat don't carry the kill because they were out of the thread at the beginning of the game. If there is one lost wolf in the punk thread and one main wolf outside of punks who carries the kill, then that wolf doesn't know who you're roleblocking. (The wolf in punk chat can't tell them because they're lost.)

Under that scenario the wolf might well have holstered because they out themselves if they get roleblocked and they also get fucked if they accidentally shoot their teammate. And in that scenario the lost wolf in the punk chat wouldn't be able to just openwolf there because at that time you two thought I was the TP, so any lost wolves in the punk chat would have to fear me blocking a kill and then the other punk outing them the next day.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:34 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:32 am TL there is a huge problem with your logic actually.

If there's a lost wolf it's not guaranteed that the person in the punk chat carries the kill. In fact it's more likely that any wolve(s) in the punk chat don't carry the kill because they were out of the thread at the beginning of the game. If there is one lost wolf in the punk thread and one main wolf outside of punks who carries the kill, then that wolf doesn't know who you're roleblocking. (The wolf in punk chat can't tell them because they're lost.)

Under that scenario the wolf might well have holstered because they out themselves if they get roleblocked and they also get fucked if they accidentally shoot their teammate. And in that scenario the lost wolf in the punk chat wouldn't be able to just openwolf there because at that time you two thought I was the TP, so any lost wolves in the punk chat would have to fear me blocking a kill and then the other punk outing them the next day.
If we thought you were TP they attack you we RBed TSP!!!

You knew that you roleblocked TSP. But the wolf that carried the kill might not. There's no safe kill for them under that circumstance. It could be, eg. you/TSP with TSP carrying the kill and you being lost, or Hyena/TSP with Hyena being lost.

That logic only works if the wolf carrying the kill is in the punk thread. But the punk thread was out of thread for D1 and N1, where there was a kill, suggesting that the kill-carrying wolf is not in the punk thread.

If there is a lost wolf with no nightkill in the punk thread then they have no way to pass info on who to roleblock in that 30 minutes.

Also did you and Hyena really figure out who to roleblock in like 30 minutes? You said there was a huge ass discussion about softs and optimal roleblock targets.

Other things that would stop a wolf in the punk chat from having a safe kill:

1) They don't know if the roleblock is going to fail

2) They don't know if they're shooting their teammate

I don't think I can clear anyone in there actually

Maybe it's just the level 1 world and it's TL/TSP lol

Like from a pure day play point of view nutella is towny as shit and Hyena is towny as shit

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:44 am A One of TSP or Nutella is always mafia both have reasons to suspect each.

B: Nutella has been going either which way to find a yeet today which makes me believe harder that they are a LW.
And why would me as a VT make no sense its my role and thats all i can give you.

uh?

Run A by me again, why is one of TSP or nutella always mafia?

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:47 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:45 am
Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:44 am A One of TSP or Nutella is always mafia both have reasons to suspect each.

B: Nutella has been going either which way to find a yeet today which makes me believe harder that they are a LW.
And why would me as a VT make no sense its my role and thats all i can give you.
uh?

Run A by me again, why is one of TSP or nutella always mafia?
because both can't be mafia as town would have no chance to win last night.

Its from what me and hyena went over last night but that was also with you as lock mafia.

Why are you clearing Hyena? This doesn't make sense to me, what

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:56 am Cause hes super towny and i don't wanna beleive i am pocketed

No offense, but I don't have issues with believing that you got pocketed, so.

Like I think Hyena is townie as shit as well but it's F5. We always say "X is lock town, never reevaluate until KiLo". Well it's KiLo now.

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