The Syndicate

Problem is that in the Syndicate whenever I try to do my quick voting routine I get ambushed by 5 people demanding a well explained thesis on my vote. I'm not used to this.

I'm not voting for Sloonei or Nutella for the foreseeable future.

It makes sense that Sloonei put a lot of emphasis on the fact he was not preserving himself. If he is a civ that doesn't make sense. If he is bad it doesn't either. But if he is an unlynchable player, that is another story.

I wanted to see the end of the night bewfore catching up and answering questions.

But the night never ends.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:19 pm Who brought this forever night?

The founders of USA.

I'm pretty much ignoring this game until it goes back from hiatus since I'm playing two other games and doing a lot of other stuff.

But I don't mean to be rude so I'll try to catch up tomorrow and answer questions.

Yay Marmot is back.

Okay guys since this is an extended day I'm gonna take an advantage and catch up tomorrow.

Turns out I'm playing that hydra game at MU and those people are making more posts every four hours than you guys have made since the start of Night 2. Also some of them want to lynch me. And my partner Soneji is dead again. So yeah.

Tomorrow I'll be back full time. Pinky swear.

I do remember wanting to lynch Sprityo in the ancient times of Post Day 2 so I guess I'll leave my vote there.

Eh where is the poll?

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:41 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:41 pm I do remember wanting to lynch Sprityo in the ancient times of Post Day 2 so I guess I'll leave my vote there.
there is no sprityo, there's dunya now.

That complicates matters.

Ok cya tomorrow.

Catching up.

Man.

Who were my town and bad reads again?

Ok just ISO'd myself. I have a better understanding of where my reads were.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 am Yeah. I mean DDL has been around for a while. He's an old soul and an old player. A scum DDL would have put in a tad more effort into at least aligning his stories. I understand he's part of the Hydra game on MU too that's started now. I've played Pirates mafia with him, and I read him as town there, despite lurking theories, and I label him as town here for the same reasons. Nothing seems off-meta for his most current town play. He's not on my scum list atm.

Don't worry about that.

I was lynched on Day 1.

Now I intend to be fully caught up before the day ends. Just 16 pages left.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:43 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:50 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:40 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:09 pm
sig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:50 am True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Some of us think that Jack could well be a mafia member who was protected by Sutter Buttes. Why are you discounting this possibility out of hand?
Can you explain how this transpired given the result?
I mean it's a night power, right? So the scum team anticipated jack getting some votes and gave him minus one. He would have been one vote ahead of sloonei but this would bring it back to a tie, which was randomly flipped to sloonei who is one of the civ roles who would survive the lynch.
That's...more premises than I would care to accept.

The underlined conclusion doesn't require any of the previous premises to be true. Sloonei would have no idea what the vote tally was if he stopped the lynch, and whether the votes were manipulated doesn't matter if he is automatically safe from one death, because there was a no lynch, and the mafia can't stop a lynch regardless of the tally.

My view is that Sloonei stopped the lynch. He was not at all passionate about defending himself or making a fuss to get people to vote elsewhere. He called it "a waste of time." If you are automatically safe from one death, your job isn't to save yourself from a lynch, but to eat a Night kill (thereby protecting the other civilians). Had Sloonei had that responsibility, I believe we would have witnessed more urgency and fire. We witnessed none.

This is under the assumption that Sloonei's emotions reflect a desire to always play the game optimally.

Maybe he was annoyed that the game wasn't being played optimally, but not particulary desperated about it.

I think I'm gonna skip from Page 39 until the end of the Night. Otherwise I'll probably procrastine this game for days.

If there is anything so important during this time you want me to look at, let me know.

We need info ffs.

Also I skimmed most of the previous pages too, so add them to the list.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:35 pm Alright so I'm gonna go ahead and officially call out @Mesk514

I recently had the privilege of seeing how a civvie Mesk in Instant Mafia IV and I would describe her as.... loud, aggressive, and almost adversarial at times. In this game she has accused basically no one and her most tangible action was buddying up to me.

I understand that this has been a fast moving game at times and I was laying off for a while since i'd never seen her actually play before and maybe she is just usually bad at keeping up, but now I have and I know that's not necessarily the case. I know that a civvie Mesk is capable of an activity level that pushes the thread forward and I'm curious why we're not seeing that here.

I think such a radical difference in playstyle is probably more likely to be related to different site or real life problems than alignment. You don't do a 180° in playstyle when you are playing bad instead of civ. Not like that.

Ok I've just done the hardest skim of my life. I ignored and skipped and did fast reading on posts like I was studying for an university test and I only had 1 hour to read a 500 page book.

One thought I've just had: Jack is uber fucking annoying in this game. He keeps talking about me. All the time. Over and over. Flip-flopping, listing reasons why he thinks I'm bad yet not being sure of them, etc.

He is so obssessed with me it's making me read him as a civ. Because I think a baddie would have either succesfully lynched me or stopped caring. He keeps caring. He cares so hard I think he is legit.

But this leaves me without suspects. Because what is left was a suspicion of LC so ancient I forgot where it came from, and one on Nutella that was killed by the poll result.

And the Bob thing. I remember mildly reading Bob as civ early. then I forgot about him. Then came Sloonei's mega post. I liked Sloonei's mega post, even though a lot of its points reeked of OMGUS and confirmation bias. But I think it's good enough for Day 1.

Yes, because this is nothing mroe than the longest Day 1 in Syndicate history. We need a lynch, and we need it now. I'm voting Bob. It doubles as a save on Jack.

I'll be around, talking.

Give me a lynch result and I'll go wild on analysing. But this extended Day 1 is annoying the hell out of me. I can't work like this.

Sorry guys, in the last 2 days i've had to read 2000 posts while people yelled at me and voted for me and demanded me to explain my reads all the time. I'm tired of reading. I think I need a break.

I hate MU.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:11 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:09 pm Sorry guys, in the last 2 days i've had to read 2000 posts while people yelled at me and voted for me and demanded me to explain my reads all the time. I'm tired of reading. I think I need a break.

I hate MU.
before you take a break, read me. You were suspicious of sprityo, what do you think of dunya?

I don't know. I didn't see anything particulary good or bad, but I skimmed most of it.

I know I don't want to lynch you today. It's too soon.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:30 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:06 pm One thought I've just had: Jack is uber fucking annoying in this game. He keeps talking about me. All the time. Over and over. Flip-flopping, listing reasons why he thinks I'm bad yet not being sure of them, etc.

He is so obssessed with me it's making me read him as a civ. Because I think a baddie would have either succesfully lynched me or stopped caring. He keeps caring. He cares so hard I think he is legit.
Jack's done the same thing on me. I read this as much more scummy than townie.

Explain? You think he's forcing it?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:44 pm Oh my word, in this back and forth with Kyle I am feeling like Jack's tone is very sincere... this is why this extended Day 1 situation is bad for me, the more stuff thrown at me the more indecisive I feel... I'll re-evaluate when I get home later tonight. I may change my vote.

It is sincere, but he doesn't have to be a civ to be sincere in this case. Kyle is literally asking him to break the rules. He is an easy position to reply to that. I'd say it's NAI.

Also this is the second time I see Jack and Kyle spend a long ass time discussing NAI stuff. ZZZZZZZZZZZ

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:01 pm Dunya setting up the mislynch.

Like it's not common knowledge I'm working extreme hours yet have more posts than anyone this game. Like I'm done at 5 pm.

The intention is to say "Smh. I have Jack a chance but I guess he was a bad townie."

Why would she say these things if she was town and thought I was bad? You don't encourage scum to redirect lynches.

If you have more posts than anyone in this game, then maybe the case on you is unrelated to post count and more related to actual content?

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:22 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:19 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:13 pm I have a grievance with the amount of times Kyle has used his Pirate Mafia performance as a way to fend off suspicion. He played games somewhere else that he's also talked about but I didn't quote them. No, I don't care that most of these are direct accusations about his Pirates performance. I think he's using meta as a shield.
You should care that those were in direct response to meta accusations. Why wouldn't you care about that?
You're rejecting perceptions before easing concerns. You're saying "I wasn't an active force in Pirates" when you should be saying "I'm actually not someone who takes the front line" if what they're saying is false about your playstyle.

You are reaching so hard I think you'll accidentally touch the sun and get burned. Be careful.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:38 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:22 pmYou're rejecting perceptions before easing concerns. You're saying "I wasn't an active force in Pirates" when you should be saying "I'm actually not someone who takes the front line" if what they're saying is false about your playstyle.
Well.... The thing is, I don't really know what I'm like yet.

I'm still in the process of rebuilding and understanding my own meta.

I could tell you how I used to play before I left RM two years ago, I could tell you about how I'd focus so much on mafia that I'd get really burnt out on it and disappear for days at a time and miss votes and sometimes forget to send in night actions. I could tell you how I played before the exodus that happened before that one when I had seemingly boundless energy and consistently made 2x as many posts as anyone else in many of the threads.

None of those are me anymore. Playing the way I used to made me tired and anxious all the time, so I'm making a conscious effort this time around to adjust my meta to be less toxic.

I feel you man. Been through a similar thing lately.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:45 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:23 am As much as I despise having no flips, I'm also going to be a hypocrite real quick.

Dom is indeed a no-info lynch. He doesn't provide much help to figuring out the strong anti-alignments we have going on in the thread. Yet, I don't feel like we're starving for info, and I think the mafia kill (if it ever goes through) will be informative.

Dom is the way to go, guys. Let's make this game all about info and less about absent speculation.

linki: welcome aboard Kyle
I'm so glad you and Kyle are voicing mild objection to the Dom lynch. I always want to point out "but we learn nothing from an inactive lynch" but fear I'll look bad if they flip bad. If a scummer fools me into thinking they are good, I can explain that. If I mislynch a fellow townie, I can explain that. If I "defend" a baddie but they never said anything? There's no excuse. But I feel the need to weigh in on game theory and strategy, feel the need to say a Dom flip teach us nothing even as I vote Dom and home Dom gets lynched. Maddening.

Additionally, I'm glad for a really productive several days with lots of antialignments. This is a strong example I can point Realmsers to of all that can be done on "Day 1." The more reads and antialignments turn out to be correct, the better.

I think you read it wrong Speed is defending the Dom lynch.

I'm still reading page 63 but I'm an impatient kid right now so imma leave this thought.

Usually whenever I play a game that has both Jay and Sloonei in it, I feel like Sloonei is Jay #2.

Like, their playstyles are very similar, but Jay is the protagonist. Sloonei is the sidekick. Jay leads the town. Sloonei helps. They are a fearsome civ duo that way, actually. The Jay 1 and the Jay 2. You don't want to cross their path if you're bad.

In this game, Sloonei is Jay #1.

He leads the town. He leads the conversation. He is the is the guiding light that will take us to victory, or to our doom. But he is the one steering the wheel.

Whatever Jay is, he is not Jay #1. Or even Jay #2. He is something else and I don't know what that is.

At this point I'd expect to be drowing in a sea of Jay. To have so much Jay around me I could barely breathe. But I can breathe just fine. Jay is talking, but he is not seizing control. He is engaging, but not in a way that makes me feel like he is trying to produce perfect reads on everyone on day 1, to make everyone interact with each other, to move the game forward.

He is not in his element. Something is wrong with him. So I'm itching to call him bad. Although, it is possible he might be busy or distracted or just having a bad civ game. It happens. But he is not the civ Jay I know, I'm sure of that.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:13 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:10 am I find Epi's case on Jimmy to be intriguing. I don't think I'll follow it today but Epi and Eloh come out looking better than JJJ in all their recent interactions.
Please elaborate.
I think you're basically describing town Eloh behavior and calling it a case for her badness. Epi calls you out.

Epi is also taking note of the Jack/Dunya square off in a way that doesn't look opportunistic. Feels way different from ME Epi, which is the last bad Epi I can remember. So that makes him look better.

Epi also characterizes your posts as easy analysis or analysis that leads nowhere. I could see the gth excercise that way as well.

I feel like regular civ Jay would be forcing that GTH down our throats and talking about its results all the time. I can barely remember it happened at all.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:30 am This post is so poetic. I love it.

I'm not sure how I feel about Jay this game. He is difficult for me to read. But I would agree that he is quieter than usual even though he is participating.

Thanks. I get inspired sometimes.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 am Hey sorry I haven't been around for most of the discussion. Been periodically catching up while doing other stuff. I'm cool with the Dom lynch but since there's already a comfortable lead there I'm tempted to put a symbolic vote somewhere, probably Jay at this point tbh.

A symbolic vote on someone who is a lead subject in the lynch discussion at that point?

That isn't much "symbolic" as it is you taking a stance.

Actually I don't know what the size of Dom's lead was when Nutella made that vote, so I might be wrong here.

I'm 2 pages from EoD. Mesh lynch still hasn't begun.

And people ask me why I hate CFDs.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 am I feel like Mesk is at least as likely to be mafia as Dom, but also more informative as there's been people defending and accusing her.

*Mesk*

I'd say the value of the information we obtained from this lynch is almost as meaningful as the hypothetical Dom one. People were treating her like a problem to be removed, just like Dom. They weren't really engaging with her nor was she engaging with anyone.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:48 am lynching Jay without any due process.

You need to learn to find your inner DDL.

Due process is for suckers.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:59 am I have a few racial slurs I'd like to issue, but all ya'll honkies are white.

Pretend you're black then.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:49 am I feel like I went to bed with a light dusting of snow on the ground and woke up to a four foot blizzard.

Don't be sad. The snow is stained with blood. We finally have some blood we can analyse.

Hi Jack?

Still want me dead?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:52 am +2 to DDL's Jimmy posts. 1 for agreement and 1 for how he feels like the DDL I know (finally). Objectively, idk if that makes DDL more likely to be town but in my heart, it makes me feel better about him. DDL deserves a full ISO.

Dunya deserves a full objective ISO. I gave her some Gate of Babylon which isn't fair. Sticking out is her accusation of me distancing from Jimmy. Projecting? Also sticking out is some reads I do agree with (not sure if I said all her reads were fake, my true feelings were that enough of them were but the GoB ISO underlined she's got some okay ones, too).

Also sticking out is Wilgy, whose interactions with Jimmy at EOD are strange. Jimmy was after him with kid gloves and he didn't really play along but didn't really make a stink either and voted with Jimmy at EOD. Distancing? Needs a closer more caffeinated look.

Not a huge fan of Quin or Sloonei's "lol why am I voting this way" posts at EOD. I kinda expect it from both of them as townies, particularly Quin, who CFDs in directions I don't like as a good guy.

Epi continuing to move up in my rainbow. Going to do a classic Jack read confidence list to clarify (mostly for myself) where my moving reads have all gone.

I guess I needed some time to catch my groove. And a lynch. I work better when I have data to analyse.

Like in here, Quin started pushing the Mesk lynch before everyone. He pushed and he pushed until people took the bait. If one of Jay or New Dom is bad, Quin looks terrible. On the other hand, it is a risky play for a baddie. He more or less took the lead on it.

Or did he? He was the fourth one to vote in the poll (can we trust the pool order, btw? This site changes too much). That means he kept suggesting it until some people voted for her, then jumped on the wagon himself.

Quin is the main actor in the death of Lasagna. Should we crucify him for it or treat it like a civ goof?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:58 am Plus, I doubt JJJ was using your perspective when he voted. Isn't it more likely that he had found something suspicious in her posts using his own perspective?

Only one way to find out.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] ?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:20 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:34 am I wasn't planning on thoroughly looking at J³ until tomorrow, is there a significant chance that he's mafia
Y tho?
He didn't seem relevant until like 30 minutes til the drop and I am still sick and gross, and I don't want to invest my healing nap time into non vital ISO's

I think the events of yesterday more than give reasons for looking into Jay

Everybody is relevant.

But it's night phase. You should rest imo.

Those phases end 4:30 AM where I live

I mean, I'm not even bothering.

But I don't mind not being here at EoD tbh.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 pm But I don't mind not being here at EoD tbh.
I mind. I always say I wont take a game super seriously, but when I get invested, I go full in tbh.

I get invested too but I've played a lot of games with random end times so i'm used to not controlling it. I just come, make my vote, go to bed/work and hope nobody does something stupid.

(though last day I wasn't even useful myself so whatever)

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:34 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:09 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 pm I wish you'd have lynched me, even! I wouldn't have even been mad. That would have been more useful than a Mesk flip.
eeeeggghhhhhwwwwwgh

If you're defending this, I hate you too.
Oh you voted for Dom.

Please tell me, how you thought a Dom flip would assist us in scumhunting more than any other player.

If you're telling me after 2600 posts itt you didn't have any better leads than Dom, then you're scum.
Screw you mate. I already put my thoughts down on the infolynch stuff earlier. Look for it. I'm not going to be helpful while you're being all self-righteous and crap. Reminds me of stuff I would do as mafia, too. Coming in after a lynch and being all strong-willed, condemning, and self-righteous. you aren't doing yourself any favors with this post train of snit.

As for the "eeeeggghhhhhwwwwwgh" post, I was reacting to your "I wish I had died instead." Bull crap for a few reasons.
1. You, if town, are more useful than mesk right now.
2. You, if town, know your alignment is town and that there was a chance mesk was scum.
3. I've seen townies prop the perspective that "townies don't need much self-preservation." That's stupid. I will call it stupid in every game I see it, and I will be wary of any posts that say, esp. after the fact, "Man, you should have just killed me instead. Because I'm totally town and don't care if I die. riiight? It would have been better because info." Heck, mesk could have said the same thing if we switched to you. "Oh, you shoud have lynched me. I'm town so I don't care if I live, and I wouldn't have been as big a loss. Because I'm totes town. Riiiggghhhttt???"

So yeah, this post is crap and managed to, along with all the posturing you're doing right now, squash my townread on you.
You wanna act all self-righteous and condemning? Here, have some conflict.
(And for the record, if I was here at EOD, I wouldn't have been on Mesk. Probably J3.)

You look very town in this post.

Yeah a townie should only agree to self sacrifice when it is a trade to certainly catch scum. If you are town, you are the best town read you have.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:46 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:37 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 pm I wish you'd have lynched me, even! I wouldn't have even been mad. That would have been more useful than a Mesk flip.
I also agree that this is a pretty weird thing to say. What information would a civvie dunya flip give us?
I have been extremely loud and extremely vocal. You can delve more into my interactions with players, and check out who said what about me with actual context because I actually talk back.

I agree with this, but you should never abandon a chance to catch scum for information.

And it's not like a Dom/Mesk thing was devoid of information. It just had less of it.

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