The Syndicate

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:06 pm Good puke Jay. I quite enjoyed the "meta pajamas" analogy. I also found your assessment of Jack to have merit and will keep that in mind as I sort out how I feel about him. And I agree with your funky vibes from DDL; even given that he's been posting while catching up, a lot of his posts have felt vague and directionless.

Tell me how you feel about all of the players whose usernames begin with S: sig, Sloonei, Spacedaisy, speedchuck, and sprityo.

Vague and directionless is more fun imo.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:38 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:21 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:22 pm y'all talk too much

I'm not voting for Dom on Day 2. For this is the best post in the thread.

buddying

I will assume you are replaying to my obvious joke with a joke of your own.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:25 am My concern with the above is that while Sloonei likes to throw around his votes early and often, he didn't put one on Epi despite essentially declaring him a worthwhile Day 1 lynch candidate. I asked him about that and he danced around that point and told me about how he decides where his final vote of the Day would be made.

He mentioned that Epi already had decent pressure on him at the time, which is basically the response I'd expect from a civilian Sloonei, but since it wasn't his initial response to me it doesn't hold as much weight.

I don't know what his mafia motivation for this is, though.

Ok that's a good point.

Also agree with the last one. Seems a bit convoluted of a plan.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:05 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:03 am... went at it not being sure he would succeed but trying anyway.

...describes everything meaningful I ever do in a game.

Depends. Maybe you don't even want to lynch Epi. You are just throwing shit in the fan so people look at the shit and think "LC is doing a lot of work. He civ".

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:27 am Nobody wants to discuss why it's Day 2 and everybody is still alive? Okay.

Possibility #1: Aconcagua was targeted with the kill.

Possibility #2: Chimborazo was targeted with the kill and borrowed Aconcagua ability that same night.

Possibility #3: Kilimanjaro was targeted with the kill and activated its ability that same night (which I hope isn't the case).

Possibility #4: Mont Blanc did the Tube Snake Boogie and one of the above also happened.

Possibility #5: Matterhorn ???

Possibility #6: Olympus Mons ???

Possibility #7: Wrekin, England is the only member of the team able to submit a kill, and he was asleep at the hill.

Am I missing any?

++++

Off-topic, but I noticed the roles used to say "Puncak Jaya may send a storm to another player each night" and that a storm was a silence or curse of choice. Either I am remembering wrong, or that was edited.

I tend to pass on this kind of exercise where there are 7 different possibilities and no way to guess which one of them is right. Though it might be more useful once we get some role flips.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:12 am DDL, why'd you vote nutella yesterday? Where's it gonna go today? Can you tell me a little bit about those town reads of yours?

Didn't like her extreme fence sitting and general apathy.

Still don't. Though some more recent posts of her felt genuine. But I'm not voting for her in the foreseeable future due to the vote tie mechanic thingy. I take mechanical evidence of alignment over my personal reads anytime.

I'm voting for Jack. Been having a bad feeling about him for a while, although it's hard to describe. I pointed out some posts that pinged me more, the rest is just gut.

LC gives me a bad gut feeling too, though it's weaker.

Re: town reads. I liked the way you were analysing posts early. Felt very pro-active. I liked how Bob talked about you, and his point about changing votes. I thought Eloh's suspicion on Epi looked genuine. Speed looked very town when he came in in the middle of day 1 and started questioning things. I'm now feeling good about Daisy for her reads on Epi and Nutella too, so add her to the list.

I did it. I'm caught up. GLORY!

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:53 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:27 am Off-topic, but I noticed the roles used to say "Puncak Jaya may send a storm to another player each night" and that a storm was a silence or curse of choice. Either I am remembering wrong, or that was edited.

lest I loathe to speaketh, but feeleth I must
Address this role without a fuss

Alas, e'en though I like to spam
Replies to all that sayeth mine name
A darkness falleth upon mine lips
A puckish rogue gaveth me a slip
So now I shalt not quote DDL
if 't be true twas a joke, it's his to telleth

This role that thee speaketh of the present day
Is probably just what thee sayeth
Or that's mine opinion concluded, be it

Eh my stance on inactives is the same as always. I don't care. They'll be replaced eventually. Next.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:58 am Like if the idea is that baddies are vultures around Epi so Epi is good, why are the three of you not interested in catching those baddies?

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:11 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:35 am

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:12 am DDL, why'd you vote nutella yesterday? Where's it gonna go today? Can you tell me a little bit about those town reads of yours?

I'm voting for Jack. Been having a bad feeling about him for a while, although it's hard to describe. I pointed out some posts that pinged me more, the rest is just gut.

LC gives me a bad gut feeling too, though it's weaker.

My greatest weakness as a townie is my difficulty distinguishing townies who are lazy/unable to put their reads into words and baddies.

Convince me you're a townie who is wrong and unable to put his reads into words and not a scummer who is lying.

-> lazy
-> wrong

Sorry I'm not biting your attempt to make me feel bad.

My current stance of scumhunting is that 99% of all scumhunting methods are snake oil.

I'll not give a long and elaborated analysis on you because I don't have one. Neither I intend to do a long and complicated ISO on you that will ultimately fuel my confirmation bias and make me suspect you more. I've lynched too many civs after ISOing them and concluding they were bad. I'll go by what gave me the feeling of you being bad, which is good enough. For now. Maybe.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:39 am A rainbow! (Like you guys give a shit)


Jack
Nutella
LC
Quin
Kyle
[pretend this is light green]
Sloonei
Sprityo[/pretending]
[yallow]
Daisy
Eloh
Sig
Wilgy
Glor
Melk
Dom
MP
DDL[/yaloh]
Speed
Bob
Epi

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:31 pm I'm just having a fucking day at work. Ready to fight over nothing.

I look forward to hearing more from you and DDL and Jimmy.

My curiosity got the better of me and I took a look at your ISO even though I said I wouldn't.

Those posts called my attention.

May I ask you where all that negativity comes from? Are you feeling bad about how the civs are acting in this game?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:44 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:22 amI thought I saw the same pattern on Kyle vs Jack. Kyle argued some sub-optimal strategy (tieing votes) and Jack decided to argue with him for a long time about it. Or maybe Kyle posted it, Jack took the bait, and Kyle took the advantage to spend a long time arguing about it. Either way, the point is: if I see two players arguing for a long time about something not related to scumhunting, I will suspect at least one of them is wasting everyone's time on purpose. Hence my point.

for my part I just hate being talked down to and having my actions misrepresented like they were

Also bare in mind that I'm not completely sure if the strategy is sub-optimal. I was leaning towards Jack's side in your argument, but I've been wrong on that before. Either way, it seems it is not optimal for this game because timezones.

But the point I was making would be true even if it was optimal. I am suspicious of people who spend a long time not scumhunting.

I can get behind lynching a low poster. I e. Sprityo.

I just don't get behind lynching a zero poster, because they produce zero information and may be replaced in the future.

Right now Dom is walking a dangerous line between low poster and zero poster, though.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:18 pm Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

Seems like it's general "at least if we are wrong we lose very little" mentality.

Which is not necessarily wrong. If a low poster is looking bad from their few posts we might want to lynch them anyway.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:24 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:20 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:18 pm Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

Seems like it's general "at least if we are wrong we lose very little" mentality.

We've essentially had an extended Day 1. Feels like a cop out to me.

linki: If they look bad, sure. Does Dom look bad? Not to me.

Not to me either.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:28 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:24 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:18 pm Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

I find it unlikely that all if the scum can be found among the talkative folks.
I'm not advocating a lynch of a low poster without exhausting all our other options first.

I'll never understand this mentality. Worst thing about it is that it always seems to be the case.

Thah'ts why I compared low posters to zero posters.

There is that guy who makes 3-4 posts a day and contributes nothing. Sprityo, Sig and Wilgy could count on that category (personally I think Sprityo looks bad and I have no read on the other 2).

There is that guy who makes 1 post every 2 days saying hi and is a prime candidate for a replacement. I. e. Dom.

I think the former type can be a worthy lynch (though I'd like to ISO any of them before deciding). The later is not.

You do have one point though, that since we are in an extended Day 1 we would maybe prefer to maximise information, and leave the low posters for later. We don't have to lynch the low posting baddies first.

As such, a lynch on Jack, or LC, or Epi, or Sloonei would produce new avenues for futures lynches. Even if they flip civ (but especially if they flip bad).

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:33 pm I didn't know Wilgy was playing in this game????

Actually he isn't, he forgot to use blue font.

Nvm he is. I'm derping. Was looking for Wilgy at the W instead of D in the poll.

Ignore me plz.

I don't feel like lynching Wilgy. He seems legit having trouble catching up. Would like to give him more time.

Sig basically announced he will be inactive until Day 6. But my read on him is neutral so I dunno.

Actually Day 4, with Day 5 being his return to activity. Wrong math.

I've never seen baddie Jay to this day and this scares the shit out of me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:05 pm I recall Epi once making the argument that Eloh is more invested in games when she has someone to talk to behind the scenes. In this game she's made multiple comments about the amount of effort she's been putting into getting caught up. Her tone in these posts has not been one of frustration or dejection, but instead she's seemed kind of gleeful about it, playing around and joking about her involvement. I like this attitude and approve of it in every way, which is why I feel dirty for turning it into a case against Eloh. If she is involved in BTSC, and has been since Day 1, then she's scum. And if this is the case and Epi's old argument is true, then her carefree attitude toward the avalanche of posts in this thread might be explained by her involvement with teammates behind the scenes. Or she's just having a jolly old time.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] what do you think about this?

I'm personally feeling good about Eloh right now precisely because it seems she is really playing the game, so I get what Sloon means.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:19 pm Part of me remembers his postgane Pirates comment and thinks he's suffering from the same self doubt. If that's the case, I would feel bad lynching him. But I want to cause he seems bad.

That is correct, but this is me trying to do something about it.

You can be done because you are just leaving.

It is kind of weird when you are not leaving, and you are making yourself available to change your vote later, yet you are done with discussion.

Either use the seat or leave it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:38 pm I do. I don't like killing my friends. Choosing who to take out of a game feels bad.

So do I. But this was Day 1. Nobody had had to kill anyone yet. Do you feel guilty just for having a bad role card?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:38 pm *commercial music starts playing*
Have you ever looked at the linki and thought, "Holy mother of linki, looks like the person I just started to civ read is being called a top scum read?"
Well worry no longer! Zombies are currently swarming around your home and you'll soon be eaten! For more information call 1-800-42-6969.

I am not lynching Wilgy today.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:57 pm It's very straight forward, usually he is cryptic and frequently unhelpful until he is under some sort of pressure because he's about to die.

Well I did list him in a list of possible inactives to lynch...

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:09 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:55 pm And now I can ask this question without being a "Didn't Read" Denny. Eloh, why are Quin and Sloonei in the reddish zone? You have never mentioned them before.

Because theor posts don't feel very trustworthy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:05 pm I recall Epi once making the argument that Eloh is more invested in games when she has someone to talk to behind the scenes. In this game she's made multiple comments about the amount of effort she's been putting into getting caught up. Her tone in these posts has not been one of frustration or dejection, but instead she's seemed kind of gleeful about it, playing around and joking about her involvement. I like this attitude and approve of it in every way, which is why I feel dirty for turning it into a case against Eloh. If she is involved in BTSC, and has been since Day 1, then she's scum. And if this is the case and Epi's old argument is true, then her carefree attitude toward the avalanche of posts in this thread might be explained by her involvement with teammates behind the scenes. Or she's just having a jolly old time.

I'm actually not having a jolly ol time. I'm sick. I still have work this week...which is good with Christmas coming, but I have a cold, so not fun. Every time I read a page even when caught up, there is another page to read. And when I go to sleep, I wake up like 10 pages behind. I cannot think straight 'cause I'm sick. Went to the store to get meds and left my phone, that's how much I can't think straight. Sloon is being nit picky with me. I think he expects more from me than I can intellectually give. I'm not an intellectual like so many of you here. I play for fun and to try to keep my mind as sharp as possible as I age. Did I mention I'm sick and feel like crap. My meds didn't even seem to help.

I'm trying to guve enough effort so y'all don't suspect me. But I am usually lynched pretty early in games because I'm suspected. When I flip civ, people are confused. When I flip baddie they are all self congratulatory. Because no matter what my role, I'm always suspected by a few players early on. Y'all just need to leave me alone and go find a baddie.

Don't feel bad for skimming the game. I do it all the time.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:38 pm non DDL behavior.

What is that

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:32 pm Oh my goodness... I'm caught up again. I have been reading mafia nonstop this afternoon/evening other than dinner and my adventure to walmart. I have nothing left in me. I was all excited for this game. A real mafia game after being in cc123 for months and it being all for nothing. But gracious me, yall expect me to be read up, respond to posts, and come up with my own detailed reads. If not.... I'm bad. But...then again...a couple others say I'm bad because I AM trying to participate. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

We're all shooting in the dark.

(inb4 Epi "you are. I know exactly where I'm shooting")

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:38 pm (inb4 Epi "you are. I know exactly where I'm shooting")

I read this as a sexual joke.

I was about to respond, "I'm shooting in the dark too."

Your mind is 3dirty5me.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:34 pm Wow you guys went ahead and vote me under no premise?

I could just not answer, is that better?

Gah. Whatever

-> no premise

Really.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:50 pm DDL's response to my grievances is a moving one. The specificity of the parallel drawn here, based on what happened in Turf Wars, when I was similar to a replacement (joining the game at Day 5), and led an erroneous lynch on him inspires (hi Quin) me to reconsider. It's not especially important that I was wrong then, but it's important that DDL remembered this incident and recollected it with such earnestness here. I believe him when he says he wants to stop me from doing that to him again, and I also grant that my meta perception of him (a civilian who thrives on pressure) could be out of date. I don't think the two of us have really played many games together since that first meeting in Economics. I don't endorse his lynch.

I'm not going to say I don't thrive on pressure anymore but...

I don't know where my meta stands anymore, frankly.

I just know it's different.

Also I'm not sure how that assesment of yours was accurate in the first place. That was my first game in the Syndicate. I was trying really hard to impress the new people and was excited about the way you and MP and Sloonei were playing. That game is an outlier in term of try-hardness for me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:44 am Anyone want to point out that if self-preservation was my goal right now I'd just switch my vote to jack and stop trying to pull people onto my preferred target? No? okay.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:49 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:44 am Anyone want to point out that if self-preservation was my goal right now I'd just switch my vote to jack and stop trying to pull people onto my preferred target? No? okay.

Vizzini.jpg

Oh, come on! Even my joke got ninja'd? What is this, Naruto?

I'm out.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:50 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:49 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:44 am Anyone want to point out that if self-preservation was my goal right now I'd just switch my vote to jack and stop trying to pull people onto my preferred target? No? okay.

Vizzini.jpg

It's not wifom. I just don't have any reason to care about self-preservation in the poll.

Why are you acting like civs don't care about self-preservation either?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:10 am On the off chance of vote shenanigans...


Nutella, Sloonei, Jimmy, Bob, Quin good.

Epi bad. DDL maybe bad. Daisy maybe bad but only if Epi is.

Everyone else mostly null.

Do people use legacy reads? I feel like these get ignored.

what is a legacy read

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:17 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:14 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:13 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:12 am I would have voted for Jack. My posts will absolutely validate that.

Thanks for saving me, scumbuddy. Good distancing.

This is really gonna throw 'em for a loop.

Crap, if Jack comes back bad if he gets lynched, then I'm going to look really bad. "I WOULD HAVE voted him but didn't, but he got lynched and was bad, and I swear I would have helped, guys, right?" LONG CON 4EVA!!!

I don't like how you are framing possible legit team analysis as a joke before the flip.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:37 am

We need information to go off here people!

Depends. If nobody dies again, we could argue we are extending the game's real time length. I feel like this is pro-civ, since it gives mafia more chances to look bad and vice-versa. A good example is what happened to Nutella.

Tho if someone dies in the night this positive effect is probably countered/nulified.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:48 am In a universe with bad LC doing a fake lotta work, does he want to actually cause a mislynch or just spin his wheels?

Maybe he doesn't have control over it and is just putting his own survival as a priority.

Well i'l just describing how I play.

Tbh my read of LC at this point feels outdated and I already forgot why I suspected him. Might need to look at him again eventually.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:48 amThis part is antitown and doesn't feel DDLish. Scumhunting methods are for suckers? You're a better player than that.

So what's going on? I don't know that you're bad but I know you aren't acting like I expect DDL to act so I'm not sure exactly what to do with that.

Ok so I was being over-dramatic. Apologies.

My point however, is not that scumhunting is for suckers, if that most scumhunting "tells" are smoke and mirrors in order to justify what is basically gut. Well I'm not sure if this applies to you people, but it applies to me. In the past, I'd suspect someone for a single scummy post, then I'd ISO them, do a very detailed analysis, and conclude they were the source of all evil on Earth. Then I would tunnel vision on them for tens of posts, and be so vocal I'd get at least one unlucky civ and one oppotunist baddie to follow me. Boom, mislynch.

Over time I realized I was full of shit most of the time and those tells were inneffective.

Now, here is what I currently do. I don't avoid tells ompletely because otherwise what is the point of signing up for mafia. But I'm like, super paranoid. I follow my gut and try to rationalize a little, but I don't rationalize too hard because it will probably lead to confirmation bias. I keep my suspicions soft so I can jump out of them before it's too late, and I listen to others more. If everyone disagrees with me, I assume chances are I'm just wrong. I give more value to vote analysis and role analysis because those are closer to exact science and I'm good at that (I even copied Gman's technicolor vote thing in a recent game). And I also try to spot things nobody else noticed, because that helps too.

Also I've had this stance for quite some time, possibly before I met you, so I have to say you thinking it's "anti-DDL" probably means you haven't paid enough attention to me until now.

The difference is that in this game, I'm trying to be more unapologetic about changing votes and following my gut, and attacking people at random times for things that might be insignificant. Like, I'm trying to be less diplomatic. Because I feel like this is more like how I play mafia at NF, and it's working there lately.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:55 am Options:

Sloonei or Jack are Aconcagua.

One of them are Chimborazo and got real lucky. And have great info on a Civ.

Matterhorn is a secret so maybe? Same for Olympus Mons.

None of the Little Mountains seem to have this ability.

I would say they are 100% not both bad. That role that checks twice with one true one false might be able to leverage this info?

Another possibility is Cristobal Colon just decided to stop last night's lynch. Because they are a dick.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:11 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:43 am So... what options are there for this lynch not happening? Obviously stuff like the Everest extra vote aren't a factor, because ties are randomized now. So.... the Big Mountain that can pardon a lynch? I should research before I post.

I think it's very clear that Sloonei knew he wasn't going to die if he was lynched. I assumed that he was the one who was lynched but didn't die. I'd have to double check the vote tally though.