The Syndicate

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:40 am hey here's an idea

if sloonei is bad for coordinating reads with temmie g-man, let's lynch g-man who some of us already have gripes with

temmie?

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:44 am
Dana wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:43 am I'm gonna [VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine because I trust him the most and I am always wrong.
we got some a-grade scum hunting happening here today folks

+1. I need to take notes to use this some time myself.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:33 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:23 pm I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.
What do you like about it? Your second line seems to be saying maybe you don't like it. Please be specific.

It's like I've always wanted to lynch juliets for being passive and the time has finally come.

But rationally this doesn't make sense to me.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:49 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:43 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:33 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:23 pm I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.
What do you like about it? Your second line seems to be saying maybe you don't like it. Please be specific.
It's like I've always wanted to lynch juliets for being passive and the time has finally come.

But rationally this doesn't make sense to me.
You want to lynch someone for being passive in general, not becasue of anything she has specifically done in this game?

Am I interpreting you correctly?

You said you like the case, what about the case (other than Juliets passivity) did you like? What points did you like enough that you felt strongly enough about to say you liked the case?

I'm saying I tinfoil juliets every game for being too passive and nice. Then she flips town.

Then someone said "juliets is being too passive and nice let's lynch her" and my first thought was "hell yeah".

But then I remembered she does that every game and tried to see if there was anything different but didn't see it.

The more correct answer is that I don't want to lynch juliets right now but I'm open to the idea if anyone can actually show me why she's different from past games.

Like, it bothers me that juliets's playstyle is so, so easy for a baddie to hide behind. So I want to catch that baddie some time.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:17 am Tbh I would say that the above posts look like preemptive TMI/ass-covering, but TMI isn't as much a thing in a two-scum-team game so idk and also sloonei's town but idk about luna.

Too much flip-flopping. I think nutella is bad.

Spoiler: show

Voting the unmysterium thing because I like to solve mysteries.

Dana wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:39 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:58 am
Dana wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:31 pm I have a few questions from way back in the thread:

What is supertowning?
What is a truth meta? Is it literally just saying "I'm gonna tell the truth"? Because isn't that the whole point of this game?

I'm still a few pages behind but I've been taking some notes and attempting to form some opinions so I will be back again soon but this game is wild.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:35 pm Who is @Dana ?
Hi, I am!
Supatowning is when somebody looks like they are making a huge amount of town effort. Very subjective.

Truth meta is when a person refuses to lie in games ever. They just hate doing it. If they are mafia they will say "I'm mafia" if you ask their alignment. If they are town they are confirmed by default when they claim. In this site only Glorfindel does that, afaik, and he's not playing. Enrique did say he has a truth meta "for only one game" but that doesn't make sense, because like you said, that's the point of the game.
Wow, I love this concept, I didn't realize it was a strategy. Lying stresses me out so much. How does it work out when that guy is bad and outs himself? Are his teammates just like "ok bye rip"? Do hosts try to give him good roles on purpose? Does he ever lie anyway and then everyone believes him? I guess that would defeat the purpose of his whole thing, but it's possible for him to do. This is a great thing to learn exists.

It's good to learn but please don't do it. Everybody hates it. You are basically refusing to play the game as it is.

Some people have specific truth metas too. I think Quin doesn't lie about what role he's got but he will lie about other things. Those kinds of truth metas are more tolerable.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:12 am Also again, asking people who were here eod to give their takes on what happened in here. That could help us who weren't understand it better.

The way I see, Wolbre made a direct challenge against a force no one controls and few really comprehend: people's will to make stupid wagons on Day 1. You don't challenge Day 1 like that. You must respect it, bow to it, do what it wants. It's an unforgiving mistress. If will spot a player making fun of its wrath and bury them under 10 bandwagon votes.

I don't blame anyone for voting Wolbre tbh. He literally begged for it. Though I'd still find it useful to figure out any people who did it while stating terrible reasons for it.

Dana wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:48 pm That's wild. I guess the point of the game if you are mafia is to not let people know that you are mafia, but how does that destroy the whole rest of the game? Wouldn't you just get yourself killed and then things can go on without you? But yeah, I guess that is not really playing the game then. Fair point.

If you are mafia you screw up your team, and the game's balance.

If you are town you just remove yourself out of discussion and force mafia to pick a time to kill you over someone else they might prefer to kill.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:18 pm @DDL, so you cannot tell me what you liked about the case you said you liked except for, "Juliets is nice and passive, and baddies (generically,not specifically her) have been known to hide behind that?

I read Sloonei's case and agreed with all of it. Not much I can do except paraphrase it. Juliets is not saying things and is mostly just asking questions and agreeing with people, like others said.

But she does that every game.

I'm just scratching my head over how to crack juliets's playstyle tbh.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:58 pm
Dana wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:39 pmWow, I love this concept, I didn't realize it was a strategy. Lying stresses me out so much. How does it work out when that guy is bad and outs himself? Are his teammates just like "ok bye rip"? Do hosts try to give him good roles on purpose? Does he ever lie anyway and then everyone believes him? I guess that would defeat the purpose of his whole thing, but it's possible for him to do. This is a great thing to learn exists.
it actually just doesn't work at all. glorfindel has talked about how his meta still stresses him out a lot. for him it's not even a gameplay strategy, it's a real life conviction that he brings into the game with him at his own expense.

lately he's been trying to subvert it by not answering questions about his own alignment, and i think most people are respecting that choice for the good of the community, and for the good of glorfindel.

That failed spetacularly last game and now he's probably not playing mafia again, except for maybe that stump game from Epi.

CAUGHT UP! GLORY!

Ok I pretty much commented on stuff as it went on, skipping anything that sounded too minor to deserve its own post.

First of all, this night end time is godawful to me and there's no way I can be here at the time, so I apologize if I wasn't here last EoD, and for the fact I'll probably miss all EoDs. Unless the hosts pull the end back like 3 hours, which I don't know if they can/want.

Second, I mostly agree on cases made on Sloonei, like Epi's, and really think he is saying a little too much on his posts sometimes. Like he's using flowery language and agreeing/disagreeing with everything at once to look like he's doing work. That said I also kind of like the point about his post count being too high for mafia (though that could be wrong) and I think his defenses are reasonable and I also think Mac's tinfoil theory on him and G-man is crazy. So put Sloonei as a slightly bad read to me, not a strong one.

Still think Tranq looks like crap. Need to see more from G-Man to be sure.

Mac still looks civ. Quin also looks very civ, I think I have the same Quindar that Speed does (inb4 Speed thinks he's bad). Getting a pingy feel from sabie, I think he/she's a little too hands off from the game, but could be just a fish-out-of-water thing.

DH feels less contributive than before this game but that might as well be a good thing because lately he's made a habit of putting huge contributions while being bad. I feel like I need to say something about DH because he's pretty much TS' Public Enemy #1 after the last few games.

Not really feeling anyone else, I'll bring the next serving of salad when I do.

Nah the most important role is the bulletproof lie detector.

That shit is so OP I give a 50% it will turn hostile at some point.

Then again the 30 min thing requires some really active player to pull it off.

Guys polls post is in the first post he already said it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:59 pm I went over JoH's ISO on a whim. It was very bland and did not suit my palate. -1 points.

linki: Did you have anything to say about them, nutella?
Wolbre was lynched for really silly reasons. That's on him as much as on the people that were after him. The counter wagons were... wilgy and Sloonei I think? One is a mislynch waiting to happen (or a lucky mafia lynch, IDK with lurker wilgy) and the other is Sloonei. Which no. Bad lynch.

Pulling something out of that rapid-fire linki-filled mess in which the guy who got lynched was daring the thread to lynch him doesn't seem like the best use of my time.

This sounds a bit arrogant towards the other players. It's like you see that lynch as beneath you.

Which is not a personal criticism I am making to you, but an invocation of the meta tell I have that players who have a negative view if town are less likely to be town.

Ok so [VOTE: Tranq] aubergine

Hasn't done much to placate my previous suspicion.

Is it just me or did G-Man claim indie?

I guess we can reference but not quote. Even still, referencing in certain ways might break the game's immersion (i. e. trying to figure out who knows the name of the mafia factions), which is called Angle Shooting, and is usually seem as bad form.

If I'm a host I'll usually post a copy of the default civ PM in the first page so that players don't try to pull that off.

LoRab wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:11 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:02 pm I guess we can reference but not quote. Even still, referencing in certain ways might break the game's immersion (i. e. trying to figure out who knows the name of the mafia factions), which is called Angle Shooting, and is usually seem as bad form.

If I'm a host I'll usually post a copy of the default civ PM in the first page so that players don't try to pull that off.
I didn't see anyone quote a PM, so I was confused by LC's post.

Also, noticing something that could be seen as a slip I don't see as either angle shooting or bad form.

I'm pretty sure the definition of angle shooting is exactly what happened here. Not just looking for slips, but looking for slips related to things from outside the game thread. Comparing host PM knoiwledge, watching when a person was online to see if they sent an action, etc. The game should be limited to things that happen inside the thread.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:11 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:56 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:15 am Wow I got up expecting a cool post and maybe a page of posts (I am at 50 PPP) and I wake up to ... this.

I have to reread Nutella, she is a surprising NK to me (although proximity counts so that limits the kill pool I guess). I did not much suspect her but I did not much trust her, either.

I am not going to read Slooneis ISO's until maybe tonight. I don't trust him at all. In the past when I played with he he felt all Supatown and engaged, here he feels ... manic. He reminds me of baddie MP. But that is what I thought of him that time I lynched him, so stepping away from him for now, I don't see you la la la la

And all the posts (from lots of folks, not just him) qualifying every remark with, "But of course there are two baddie teams."

This means normal civving behavior doesn't count. It 's what someone says, not how they say it, or how many times they say it. Looking at prior games if they had only one bad team is pointless. It's harder to catch the baddies, but it is also more intense and amazing when you figure it out. So when we judge peoples behavior, make "two teams" the forethought, not the afterthought.

Not sure if TH felt safe enough to bolster a teammate (I did not even remotely suspect him) or if that was all just buddying.

Imma read all this later, I have to go back to work today ugh.

For now I am dropping a vote on Kyle, I think his vote was the shadiest of a shady lynch.

[VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine

Linki, @MacDougall can you link me to the point, or general page, where that happened? Rereading that out of real time was hard to take context. I know you mentioned this before, about their votes, but I did not have time to reread looking for it.
"Odd choice for a kill" tell.
Never heard of it; and she WAS an odd choice. Do you think I am wrong, and that she was an obvious choice? Do people not talk about why the NKed may have been killed anymore? Or are they too worried about being labelled with canned "tell" labels to discuss something that may hold some clues.

Personally I don't enjoy it that much because Night Kill Analysis is the mother of all WIFOM. Whether the mafia team will kill someone because they want them gone or to frame someone else as the killer is basically a coinflip.

But I guess I won't try to stop people from doing it either, like DH says.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] seems to be having a real problem actually being active in the game, due to real life or whatever. I'm not sure how much that affects his actual activity. He hasn't done anything to make me feel like he's a civ, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to call him bad yet either.

On juliets, so we believe her post (the one Sloonei just quoted) is actual demonstration of civviness or is it possible she just make that in a rush because she was prompted? As in, the legendary "player salad"? Currently entertaining that thought.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:05 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:04 pm @speedchuck seems to be having a real problem actually being active in the game, due to real life or whatever. I'm not sure how much that affects his actual activity. He hasn't done anything to make me feel like he's a civ, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to call him bad yet either.
jinx

What

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:07 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:13 pm As you said, given the map, kill choices are going to be limited and to an extent, random or luck based. I'm personally not going to hold stock in trying to find out why a kill was made, but I'm not gonna stop other people from doing that.
ok, thanks for clarifying that. I felt like you were trying to say I was suspect for doing some "it is known" baddie tell of some kind for saying I found her kill to be an odd choice. The way you worded that was like it was an "aha!" kind of thing.

On night one, yeah, most kills are fairly random, but later in the game I find discussion of why a person was killed can have value.

linki, so Juliets is damed if she does, damned if she doesn't? She was basicvally told to produce an opinion post, she does so, and now it's "player salad"?

We are all damned if we do, damned if we don't, that's why this game is so hard to solve.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:19 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:13 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:07 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:13 pm As you said, given the map, kill choices are going to be limited and to an extent, random or luck based. I'm personally not going to hold stock in trying to find out why a kill was made, but I'm not gonna stop other people from doing that.
ok, thanks for clarifying that. I felt like you were trying to say I was suspect for doing some "it is known" baddie tell of some kind for saying I found her kill to be an odd choice. The way you worded that was like it was an "aha!" kind of thing.

On night one, yeah, most kills are fairly random, but later in the game I find discussion of why a person was killed can have value.

linki, so Juliets is damed if she does, damned if she doesn't? She was basicvally told to produce an opinion post, she does so, and now it's "player salad"?
We are all damned if we do, damned if we don't, that's why this game is so hard to solve.
That is not true and it is misleading to say it is. What is true is that yesterday you said you wanted to lynch her for being passive, so she IS damned if she does and damned if she doesn't with YOU.

You misunderstand me, I wasn't sure about lynching her yesterday and I'm still not sure today. I'm speculating. I just want people to know that I think the case on juliets doesn't go away the moment she replies with a big salad post. It could be that post is legit hunting, it could be it's not.

It's super easy to defend youself in mafia, imo, the hard thing is not to do things that make people suspect you in the first place.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:45 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:04 pm @speedchuck seems to be having a real problem actually being active in the game, due to real life or whatever. I'm not sure how much that affects his actual activity. He hasn't done anything to make me feel like he's a civ, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to call him bad yet either.
Try not to take it into account.

Spoiler: show
In the five or so days this game has been running, I had company constantly for 36 hours, then got a fever/bug right afterward that's been plaguing me off and on. I'm sitting home now, seeing if the food I just ate will give me what I need to get a half day in at work.
I should still be able to be around this afternoon.

Get better soon, man.

Guys can we lynch Tranq? I'm pretty sure a bunch of people were saying they suspected him yesterday.

Heck he's voting for Wilgy again.

The man will just for Wilgy all game if he's left alone.

EBWOP: vote for Wilgy

Jack is sticking out like a sore thumb as a guy who is usually super active in these games and not here.

Someone get into BTSC with Jack so he can try to manipulate people into following overcomplicated schemes and end up slipping.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:14 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:33 pm Guys can we lynch Tranq? I'm pretty sure a bunch of people were saying they suspected him yesterday.
Do you suspect him?

Uh... yes? I was into the Tranq wagon before it was cool. Then it became cool for a while, then it stopped being cool again. I want people to think I'm trendy and popular by voting for the guy I think is bad.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:10 pm I would like to take a chance and say I think nutella is good, but we all know how that works out.

Oh you have no idea.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:38 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:14 pm
Still think Tranq looks like crap. Need to see more from G-Man to be sure.

What?

Tranq looks like crap.

Gman I'm not sure if looks like crap.

I don't know anything about baddie SVS but I know civ SVS has the biggest tinfoil hat of the entire internet.

She is capable of arguing back and forth with someone for 20 pages because she wants to lynch the same person they do, but for a much more complicated reason that involves a long string of ability combos, and she won't accept the simple reason.

She is the deity people pray to when they need inspiration to tinfoil.

Still waiting to see that tinfoiling in this game.

Like in the last GoC the tinfoiling was so unreal I couldn't help but read her as civ, because there is no way a baddie would be able to fake that madness.

Here she hasn't done anything that can't be faked, so far. Though she hasn't felt much suspicious either.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:53 am Quin I did not really understand the case you were making, I thought it was too esoteric. Now I understand better and will reread.

Also I want to ask a general question. I see that some general things about gameplay have changed. It used to be that the first day, everyone was all over the map, but then the town started to coalesce and work together. That seems to not be the case anymore. Not just this game, in other games I have read in to check against the games of people playing here as well.

Is this new Mafia thought, cast a wider net, catch more fish? I will say it is harder to follow peoples suspicions and thoughts when there are 30 players and 20 suspicions. I am finding it harder to follow, as few people are really commenting on other peoples suspicions, on just on the suspects of one or two other people.

Or will it settle down, it just takes longer now?

Weird, from my experience this coalescing still happens. It doesn't happen on Day 2, because it's honestly a little too soon for that, but eventually we enter PoE mode.

Well, most of the time. Sometimes we fail to muster anything and the mafia crushes us.

On sprityo, I'd say he is currently the most likely player to go on a "screw this game" spree and blow himself up like wolbre did.

Putting it here before he actually goes and does that.

As for Sloonei's list, not sure if it's a good idea to limit ourselves to 5 people, because that doesn't provide better odds than if we lynched someone among all 27 players.

On the other hand, it's a very valuable tool provided we can actually use abilities or claims to figure out who killed nutella later on. But right now... meh.

But I feel like I gotta chip in on those people. Quin looks legit. Gman looks fishy, but it's super easy to attribute his low amount of activity to rl. Maybe we should lynch him and put him out of his misery. I can't read Luna to save my life. Kyle looks alright. Not much more. The easiness of reading kyle is proportional to the day number.

Has Lorab done anything that was not discuss game mechanics?

I feel like I've mislynched her for that before but I can't help but ask.

Sabie vs Sprityo feels like Battle of the Lurkers and I don't know which side to take, if any.

Sabie looks more honest maybe, while sprityo looks like he cares less.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:22 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:02 am Like in the last GoC the tinfoiling was so unreal I couldn't help but read her as civ, because there is no way a baddie would be able to fake that madness.

Here she hasn't done anything that can't be faked, so far. Though she hasn't felt much suspicious either.
This is at least the second time you've thrown suspicions out but qualified them. Trying to get somebody else to start a train for you?

Hmm maybe? If someone found better reasons than the ones I've got to start a train I can actually believe on, I'd call that teamwork.

Alternatively, I can push people out of their comfort zone and change the way they behave, which can always be jnforming.

I just like to throw all the thought I have in the thread, without regard to trains or consequences. It helps more than it causes damage. Probably.

And I am not throwing anything out per se. I am stati g where I stand on SVS right now, which is pretty close to the middle.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:00 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:00 am I don't know anything about baddie SVS but I know civ SVS has the biggest tinfoil hat of the entire internet.

She is capable of arguing back and forth with someone for 20 pages because she wants to lynch the same person they do, but for a much more complicated reason that involves a long string of ability combos, and she won't accept the simple reason.

She is the deity people pray to when they need inspiration to tinfoil.

Still waiting to see that tinfoiling in this game.
I am actively trying not to tinfoil becasue I feel people were laughing at me last time and making fun of me. It is actually why I went back on break. Sorry if this disappoints you, but I am going to do my best to avoid a repeat of being called the diety of something stupid on the whole internet full of stupidity.

Oh I'm sorry if this came across as rude, I thought it was just another fun quirk in our series of site quirks. Tinfoiling can be useful sometimes, I suppose.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:32 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:27 am And I am not throwing anything out per se. I am stati g where I stand on SVS right now, which is pretty close to the middle.
It feels more like you're tip-toeing up to throwing down a real suspicion and then backing off because "they might be civ tho" which doesn't really feel like an actual reason.

I'm doing that because truth me told, I suck at reading people and I have a tendency to tunnel vision, so I feel like I need to constantly remind myself I might be wrong. It's healthier this way.

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