The Syndicate

If anyone gets an aha-moment, just talk about my alignment.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:56 pm I moved my vote for the time being.

Thank you.

-

Also, I really do need to sleep. Good night, all.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:58 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:55 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:51 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:49 pm I’m doing everything I possibly can to help you.

I think NVN would make a decent alternative if I wasn’t so occupied with persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Last try. You, Speed and Epig should try figure out if I’m town or scum here. Good luck if you need it.
Oh great. You did not pay attetion. Anyway, I will need to deal with this later. Shush!

Theory: Dizzy has been forced to vote for me via the This Guy role and "a punishment of his choice".

Only thing to discuss: Am I town or scum. I made that clear.

Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?

Aight. Let me get into this.

Again, sorry again for lagging behind. I will try catching up on everything I've missed and give my thoughts on it.

Except it's called reiterate and not iriterate... Sorry, Epi =p

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:19 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:44 am Let me iriterate from last Day phase: If you have suspicions about a players action that goes beyond their alignment, do not talk about it in thread. Figure out their alignment, probe and get your ideas clear, but do not engage in open guesswork. In fact, let's stop with that altogether right now.

Ok?
If I understand you correctly, you're saying we should stop ppaying mafia?

*biggest sigh in history*

I'm talking about something specific like "why would this specific player, for example myself, act in this specific odd way? Oh wait I have a theory about this that involves stuff from the setup!" - let's not talk about that thing. Let's just draw alignment conclusions from it and skip the open speculation about what possibly could have happened. It's like playing with an elephant in the room and not talk about the elephant, just what the elephant means or does. At least try to get it, and remember it for the future.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:28 amI think he's talking about role related stuff, like guessing about people's curses or whatever. I think it's a culture thing. Where I come from speculation is always free game and it's on the cursed to be less obvious about it.

It's not a culture thing.

Also, good job with the Lorab lynch. I endorsed that, although I was persuing JJJ's lynch because his case on Epi was bad. I might keep doing that btw. It's good that she flipped scum, but it's unlucky that she was the random soldier cause I think it would be 590% more helpful to get rid of one of the others.

I've seen stuff about Daisy revived being discussed. She'll be one of the players that will interest me while reading. Currently catching up. Mac and Epi continues to look town. Nut also looks great again, I'm only caught of guard that her overall playstyle seems to have become more confident and sassy from what I remember (but I do think that's a style thing).

I would like people's opinion on NVN. "Hi, I'm reading this game but I don't intend to engage with it". - ???????????

@Sloonei - I'm pretty sure someone else can help you with getting it. Reads will come when I'm done catching up on the thousand pages.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:42 amI urge you not to catch up on the thousand pages if it will be too time consuming.

Well, I really like to read whole games and know what I'm talking about. I don't like missing context. (Although, ironically, I've done slightly better with reads the few times I've been forced to skim and make reads based more on sweeping intuition than details). A lot of discussion seems to be focused on active players going at each other. I have strong reads on a few of those, and I will skim any discussion that is repetitive or that just doesn't interest me. Middle posters and so called "low hanging fruits" is where I've felt scum is most likely at this game, and I will have a critical eye on all of that. I also need to understand wtf happened to Speed. I have time to read today as I'm not working.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:44 amIt seems like a culture thing though?? Am I misunderstanding what you're talking about? someone mentioned the idea that your vote might have been forced I assumed that was the topic of your admonishment

It's not a culture thing. In my "culture" everyone, including me, would be all over this thing you are mentioning. So it's not that.

Maybe JJJ or Nut will be able to help me. I'm not wanting to be difficult. This game is difficult to play for me right now.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:54 amIf you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

Um. Are you caught up with everything now? I think you will find your answer to that question in the discussion going on.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:54 amIf you can commit the time to reading everything without it hurting your chances of playing effectively, do it. But I have a question about the underlined section. If you are wary of "middle posters", why is Jay your primary focus?

Actually, whatever. Do you think I'm scum with Lorab?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:06 pmI am having difficulties understanding you.

Then read other people's posts discussing me. Nut's and JJJ's for example. You didn't answer me - are you caught up?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:21 am The more volatile the dialogue, the less willing Dizzy is to take a stance.

Feel like commenting on this, more out of self examination: I think it's accurate to say "the more volatile the dialogue, the more urgent I feel it is to have a stance on it although I'm still as unsure as before". Does that make sense?

I disagree with Sloonei on sooooooo much. More on that later I guess. =p

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:54 pmGive a read on me.

I will. =)

Hm. I seem to actually get reads out of catching up. Maybe I should just stop now before I change my mind again. =p
Spoiler alert from page 34 or 35 or something: I have things to say about Sloonei, but it may not be conclusive. I think FZ and LC are coming off pretty good in their discussion. Speed and Kyle both have reopened cases in my mind and I hope to get clearer ideas about that when reading further. If Mac is scum I think they're doing a good job. People post too much.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:39 pm I'm voting for @LoRab

This is goof though

Lol - "good" not "goof".

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:58 pm Is dyslexicon he she it null or fluid? I have seen both.

Take your pick and go with it.

So... Lorab is refering to Nutella when she says "LA"? o.o

Omg, I'm probably about to lend on a very similar rainbow to Sloonei. I may not even have to use the "Sloonei is taking weird turn in the maze"-anaology I had in my head earlier. Sloonei, I think you ask a lot of weird questions that doesn't go anywhere or that you can easily find the answer to yourself. But that's cool if you're town anyway. =P

Soon done with catching up btw.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:04 am voted daisy to preserve the tie, I'm okay with letting the rabbi choose

Which person did you move off of?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:44 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:32 pmSloonei, I think you ask a lot of weird questions that doesn't go anywhere or that you can easily find the answer to yourself. But that's cool if you're town anyway. =P
Come on Dizzy, this isn't the first time we've played together.

There is no meta cloud following you yet. I will work on that.

As good as caught up. And now I will eat something as I ruminate. And then I will write stuff.

I'm caught up with curren events. Let me try to get out some reads.

Epi - Is not mafia. No way does Lorab act that way towards a teammate. I already thought Epi was town. He definitely cares about the roof.

Sloonei - I've had such a headache reading him until he basically got the Lorab lynch rolling. His engagement with Lorab really reads like Lorab is committed to discussing with him in a way that makes her scum and him town. So that was extremely helpful and saves from a lot of "aaaaaaargh!" I would say Sloonei is building a roof even if he's being frantic about it sometimes.

Nut - Alright, so reading through I had more and more nagging thoughts about Nut. Her tone is more aggressive than I've been used to, she's never wavered in her read on me and I started getting a bit paranoid about that - BUT - I think it's highly unlikely that Lorab would soft defend Nut like she did and accuse her voters if they were teamed. Plus, Nut did vote Lorab in the end after some flailing, so that looks really good. And I also already town read Nut really, cause Nut is Nut and even when she's nuts she's Nut. She's a roof builder.

Mac - My position here hasn't really changed. I think Mac is most likely town just from effort and posting style. I just like it. I don't know him, but I don't think he needs to go after Wilgy/Marmot (especially Marmot with the reasoning that he doesn't believe Marmot is sincere in his suspicion) if he is scum. If Mac is scum, Marmot is basically the only one voicing suspicion on him, and as scum I think it would be easier to brush that away than holding Marmot responsible for it.

FZ. - I mean, I've liked her posts more and more, and I think she came across sincere in her interaction with LC. She did vote LC over Lorab, but it's not like that wasn't announced or explained.

JJJ - I could probably write an essay on all the things JJJ has said and done that I definitely don't like at all. Yeah. For real yo, what are you even doing. I've decided I have a place for him in my heart, but I'm not totally sure of this. As in, I think he can check the material for us while we're roof building at least. I particularly don't like him pretty much ignoring the scumminess in Lorab right in front of him all of the day end. He even ISO'd Lorab and said it didn't look great, but when she was a viable wagon it was all "lalala - LC? Dizzy?" Pft. JJJ is also someone I could see as 3p, but something else, specifically, is more likely, which would point to town.

Speed - I'm not giving Speed any town credit from Lorab's spew. I actually think her weak suspicions on him reflects poorly on him. I also found him rather apathetic around day end, and he seemed really resistant to understand where I was coming from. That said, he did vote Lorab, so yay? Maybe I'm just sour cause I hate when players make cases on me, and it's pretty much them putting "scum subtitles" under all of my posts. Rawr.

Marmot - There have been a few instances of Marmot saying things that made my brain go "Hm, I think this is town". But I do tend to think that a Marmot has good tone overall regardless of alignment. He doesn't seem to really go anywhere. Where are you going, Marmot? I think him voting alongside Lorab actually looks better on him. Not my first pick for mafia, but he should be watched while we're building the roof.

Wilgy - I literally have no read on Wilgy. Other's have said he's town. Ok. I have no read on him at all.

LC - The only thing LC has going for him now is that Lorab used his case to go after Speed. That would be a case of scum following scum, which is less common. Nothing else looks great for LC. I wouldn't let LC fix the roof without a guardian.

Daisy - I actually think Daisy has some things going for her. When she came in I found her original take on a Epi/JJJ scum team to be a positive (cause it seemed rather wild), and I also think she cared about being mislynched in a town way that said "why are you not using this information?" HOWEVER - if she is indeed scum she knows who's not, and it may be that using the fail that was the Daisy 1.0 lynch is very much in scum's interest if all or most of the voters are loud and influental town. There's also things I really don't like about Daisy which is basically 1) how she handles the case that is me, including reading me as town without giving firm justifaction and 2) how she relates to Lorab, basically with apathy. She may be a roof hater.

Kyle - I don't think he cares about the roof anymore. I think he has suspicious interaction with Lorab, and I don't like his under the radar posting since the whole

start of the game. I also think he has been overplaying how emotional he was. I'm like "nah, not buying this anymore".

NVN - I should read the setup cause lol - but do we have a vig? >_>

---

The reads on JJJ and Speed hurts the most to write down. I have tinfoils, but who cares about that when I also do have ice cream?

Oh wow, my town reads are so town they aren't even visible. Here also in purple:

Epi - Is not mafia. No way does Lorab act that way towards a teammate. I already thought Epi was town. He definitely cares about the roof.

Sloonei - I've had such a headache reading him until he basically got the Lorab lynch rolling. His engagement with Lorab really reads like Lorab is committed to discussing with him in a way that makes her scum and him town. So that was extremely helpful and saves from a lot of "aaaaaaargh!" I would say Sloonei is building a roof even if he's being frantic about it sometimes.

Nut - Alright, so reading through I had more and more nagging thoughts about Nut. Her tone is more aggressive than I've been used to, she's never wavered in her read on me and I started getting a bit paranoid about that - BUT - I think it's highly unlikely that Lorab would soft defend Nut like she did and accuse her voters if they were teamed. Plus, Nut did vote Lorab in the end after some flailing, so that looks really good. And I also already town read Nut really, cause Nut is Nut and even when she's nuts she's Nut. She's a roof builder.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:20 pmI would assume so, and I did consider that possibility. Dizzy's weird behavior around talking about it is throwing me off though.

Talk about what? There's nothing to talk about. Let's not do it and definitely not do it in the future. =P But really, let's move on.

Answering concerns about me, although I don't know if they are all relevant anymore:

@JJJ - The reason I didn't have decive answers to the you vs Epi thing and didn't want to talk about it was precisely because of where my attention was at: There was a lot of noice with the higher posters throwing mud at each other. I was more interested in the quieter players doing just enough to skate by. I also did not what to make of you and Epi at that time, and the fight didn't help that. There was no flips D1 and a flip on Daisy 1.0 after that, a town flip from a player with almost no activety. I didn't have conclusive reads on you two - should I? You've played scum alongside me, and I have no problem making shit up all day long. Again, I was more focused on widening the net to other players where I thought there could very well be scum hiding. More of this in my answer to Sloonei.

@Speed - I thought your case on me was really bad. I don't at all think that I've been as "nothing" as you say. I also think you sidestepping what you actual can learn about my meta, while at the same time claiming that you are using meta from Phenon as a reason to suspect me looks terrible. I even told you: In the Currents game you had me top town after D1, and I'm pretty sure it's because I was the "usual, active, sassy" Dizzy that you were used to from Phenon (don't think you had any other game to base it on). Rawr.

@Sloonei - If you still have doubt about my alignment, please note how much I brought up "hey what about players like Lorab" D1. Also, for future reference, does anyone remember how I was the only one calling out Marmot D1 in Phenon and ended up with a lone vote on him that day, and then later he flipped scum? I think everyone should just sheep me D1 every game. Thanks.

If there's any other concerns about me, speak to my lawyer.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:09 pm Could you elaborate on your speedchuck read, dizzy? Why does LoRab's treatment of him not reflect well to you?

Cause it's weak. She was primarely after Epi. And then Speed was more of a side issue. It just sounded weaker, and like it could be distancing. Also, I'm a very OMGUSy player and Speed did not want to be my buddy at all and I'm pouty about it. >:( But in all seriousness, I think he deserves some scrutiny here.

Also also - Can we like post openly in thread where the votes are at from time to time? I'm so used to that being information posted in thread. Not having that makes vote analysis very hard. I will do this if I stay alive long enough.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:23 pm I didn't question your alignment, dizzy. I asked about why lorab's treatment of speedchuck isn't a good luck for him?

It was a general offer for you in case you are questioning my alignment, it was not a response to your one question. Take from it what you want/need.

I want to move Nut slightly down my list for icky gut feelings. When I last saw her as scum I was shocked. It doesn't sit right with me to clear her, so I won't.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:56 pmI promise all of my questions are designed to go somewhere.

I think I get the difference. I think I'm way less methodical and way more general in viewing the game. I've seen you ask questions that I've understood the value of knowing, but that I myself just assume the answers to, and then when the player answers it's usually some variant of what I assumed. Probably not always. This is not invalidating your method or anything, it's just pointing out it's different to mine, and so it has confused me sometimes.

And this is why I find it difficult with votes not being open in thread. The shenanigans around day end goes by so quickly, and I was not here when it happened.

End of day seems to be rather unpredictable on this site. As the game progress I would be more comfortable with larger wagons.

There's a general tendency of defenses being "If I was scum I wouldn't...", like Kyle here now and like JJJ tried to argue at the beginning of the game when he tried to take credit for creating all the content around Kyle - but the things is - Scum also have to act in the moment. It's not possible to be this big genius carefully planning out every action and predict how the thread will react to it. A lot of it just acting in the moment. I find the "I wouldn't..." not very convincing because of this, because what those arguments really should say is "If I knew all the information about how everything was going to go down back when it happened, I wouldn't..."

In other words, it just doesn't work in hindsight. It's also a defense I use a lot when I'm scum myself.

So, both game relevant and general comment.

I need to do something else noe, cause I've been spending all day on this game. Lol, life.

Ohai.

Let's all pile on LC.

And let me see where we're at.

So I've flipped my suspeicions a bit. Read through ISO's of my two top suspects, Kyle and Daisy -

I don't think Kyle is mafia anymore. Both his beginning of the game and his posts today has eased my concerns for that. I also still hold that his "respect" comment points to him not being mafia, even if he actually argued against this (which also looks towny imo). Things I had forgotten, so I no longer hold suspicion there.

Daisy, I'm not as sure, but I do like her defense today. It makes sense, at the very least.

I should go over LC's and Mac's posts this day phase.

Also, I had completely forgotten about the no reveal flips that is used here. I'm not used to that, and it's pretty weird. o.o

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:50 pm
FZ. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:32 pm Epi, why are you voting for Wilgy? Why are you not voting for LC?
LC has four votes. He doesn't need mine. And it's early. Burying LC with plenty of hours left in the Day doesn't give him any room to go after mafia if he is indeed civilian, but instead only incentivizes defense mode.

LC needs all the votes and love he can get. Everyone should vote today, and they should vote where they want to see the flip. I want to see LC flip, cause he's been a black hole to me in terms of getting a read on him, and now I don't believe the woops I voted Epig. He's just likely scum with Lorab and he needs to go.

The Marmot/Mac thing is weird. Mac is being weird.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:05 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:54 pm The Marmot/Mac thing is weird. Mac is being weird.
Does weird = bad in either of these cases?

Uh. I don't know, I haven't read thoroughly enough. Crap shoot says Mac would be more likely bad than Marmot.

Time's up for me as I need to go to bed.

Good luck, town. Everyone on board and full speed ahead, please.

I think everyone who thinks LC is scum should vote him. I don't like this recent vote spreading. If we have scum LC we should make sure he's the one to go. Meow.

(I'm really asleep)

Herro.

So here's my realistic POE: Nova, Wilgy and Marmot - for mafia.
If we need to get rid of 3p, then who fucking knows.

Also, the road towards a town win might not be a straight line. There's a lot of unknowns still and I think town should still be on the lookout and not slack. I don't want a good position to turn into a situation where town snoozes and loses.

Why are we splitting the votes and making it all *insert shrug emoji*

I’m voting NVN, cause duh.

On phone now, will probably be able to read and comment when home

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:08 pm If you care about the roof, and if you believe that I care about the roof, then I have a few requests.

First, under no circumstance should this poll end in a tie. Sorry rabbi, but I hear you have a midnight bris with the new proselyte, Bruce Banner, and you will have your hands full. Listen: There is one mafia member left. There is no saving or throwing under the bus at this stage. Assuming we're still haunted, there are nine civilians left. These civilians should come to a consensus. Even if it means the person you wanted to lynch today lives another day, so be it: A consensus is important. I will say it once again: Under no circumstance should this poll end in a tie or even be close.

Second, I am asking that as many skilled roofers be here during the final hour of the Day. That's 12:15am EST to 1:15am EST. I know that's impossible for some, but I hope it is not an inconvenience for most. A consensus before the above-mentioned hour would be ideal, but is not necessary as long as there are enough people here to reach a consensus.

Third, when the above-mentioned hour comes, I will have some specific requests to make of certain individuals. If you trust in my love for the roof, please comply with my request. Even if you do not trust me, humor me.

I will not be (truly) available until later this evening after my kosher evening meal and fulfilling my hosting duties elsewhere.

I agree with all of this, and I also will try to be around at EoD, but with my random sleeping and the fact that it's really 6am for me, I can't promise anything.

I'm here. Don't know what's going on. Not convinced that lynching NVN is a bad idea. Quite the contrary. Don't like the spread out votes. This is rather chaotic.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:59 pmGood to see you. If you are good, would you kindly move to Wilgy. I think he's bad.

The spread out votes are okay for now.

I'm inclined not to.

Also everyone being like "ok". Lol.

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