The Syndicate

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:14 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:04 pm dunya I've had enough of your insistence that I haven't given a reason for townreading you when I have done so multiple times now
I am trying to lay off you btw, please don't think I'm badgering or tunneling intentionally, but people keep asking me specific questions about you.

Is Quin's low activity the only reason you are pinged by him?

It's damn annoying, isn't it?

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:32 pm @Epignosis Why didn't you let me fly?

No idea what you're talking about mate. I used my secret power and all I've got let is a protection.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:40 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:34 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:32 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:29 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:23 pm @JaggedJimmyJay why haven't you jumped down my throat in this game? I've been waiting.
You'll note that I came very near to murdering you, save a lynch stop and a split-second decision to switch to nutella. If you would prefer to avoid murder, you know the drill.
I'm not going to beg for forgiveness or actively try to match a rate of posting you're happy with. I'm posting at a rate that I'm comfortable with given my rl circumstances. These arguments that I'm only posting empty content disgust me.
I don't care if the arguments disgust you. I do care how you read the players making the argument.

I wouldn't say you've only posted empty content, but you've posted more of it than would be ideal given your post count.
I posted a lot of fluff during the draft phase. I love the theme. It's natural. But when Day 1 started I dropped it. You yourself said that the draft phase encourages more fluff. I don't think you're taking that into account as you read me here.

As for people making the case, nutellas sticks out like a sore thumb. She says even my current content is empty. That's bull. She's also jumped on dunya's idea that I'm bad for not meeting a quota of scum reads (such a terrible argument, truly)

I agree with Quin in the second underlined portion.

I also find the first underlined portion empty criticism.

What degree of "empty content" is "ideal" given someone's post count? I don't understand this criticism of Quin.

JJJ, what prompted you to change your vote from Quin to nutella?

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:45 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:43 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:42 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:41 pm sig is a civilian. Nobody picked him.
Yes, and the Don is an asshole for it.

In hindsight I'm also pretty sure I won a scum game at RYM so if your from RYM that makes you just as big as an asshole.

Right now I'm tinfoiling Mac or Epi is Don, and I want this post here so I can come back and gloat about being right. Then spite kill them at my next opportunity .

Don't waste your kill on us. I gave it to you because you are one crazy son-of-a-bitch, but not that crazy.

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:50 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:52 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:25 am It just pisses me off that a lot of people, in real life, tend to disregard statistics completely because it's not exact. Those people tend to be easily manipulated by politicians and journalists.
I tend to disregard statistics because so many politicians and journalists just make them up.
statistics are terrible pretty sure I just bombed a test on it. We should ignore anything statistically from now on.

So what you're saying is 100% of statistics should be ignored.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:33 pm @Epignosis I do believe that Jay and I have both already addressed that even completely disregarding the draft phase Quin has quite a few fluff posts and not as much productive content as we generally expect from him.

I'm not dunya. I'm an old man feebly working his way through a quagmire of stuff and commenting on it as I go.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:04 pm Quin has taken a lot of flak in this game for being fluffy. I have given Quin flak for being fluffy. I grant though that at least in my case, this has been a perception derived from my own progression through the thread without a thorough dig. So now I dig.

As of right now, Quin has 96 posts.

He made 33 posts during the drafting period. Remove them from consideration (I will at least, you may not be so inclined dear readers). 63 remain.

I would call the following posts fluffy in that they do not progress a hunt in a readily discernible way:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 09#p406909
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 75#p407375
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 01#p407401
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 95#p407595
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 30#p407630
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 42#p407642
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 11#p408511
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 20#p408520
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 09#p409509
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 46#p410046

10 posts.

These posts are self-defense, primarily against accusations of fluff, without an obvious reads-oriented development therein:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p406900
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 18#p409618
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 31#p410031
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 42#p410042
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 60#p410060
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 73#p410473
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 92#p410492

7 posts.

63 - 10 - 7 = 46

This leaves 46 hunting-relevant posts, or just under half of his present post count and 73% of his non-draft day post count. This is a greater percentage than I anticipated. It isn't lovely and there is still fluff, but it isn't some glaring, terrible thing either. Those who have accused Quin of doing nothing should review this assessment and his posts as well and then report their own conclusions. I would say that it as at least no longer tenable to discard Quin as having done nothing of note. That is inaccurate.

A separate accusation which would be fairer given the data available is that Quin has not engaged anyone substantively. There have been pokes, prods, and jabs -- but no continued investigation of any single thing (that I can readily observe).

This is a fluff post. You felt the best use of your energy was counting how many of Quin's posts were on-topic? You are toying with Quin and telling people why something that's clearly a bad argument against him is a bad argument, but then in the same post, you raise another bad argument that is effectively derived from the first one: That Quin's overall involvement here is not substantive.

This stinks.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:16 pm alright here are all of quin's day 1 posts

Comment on Jay's meta. Vaguely relevant but not hunting.
Flavor comment that may or may not be relevant to the game (I think it's probably not). Not hunting
Prod on sig for what mafia mac looks like. This is one of your more meaningful posts but it still isn't much
Flavor comment in relation to Kites' weird post. May be tangentially game-relevant but Quin adds nothing substantial to the analysis anyway
His picks for Epi's survey.
Civ read on Dr White and DDL, "nobody I dislike" -- one of your few posts with actual reads and it's disgusting.
"is sloonei even playing" not content
asking for iso links, not content
asking for jay's buttocks, not content
says DDL and rdw stand out as early contributors -- sort of content but not productive
confirming lack of scumreads
dislikes dunya "pushing scumread quota"
says he only has town reads again (3rd time), except this time he says "bar the above" which I assume refers to suspecting dunya for "pushing a scumread quota"?
more talk on not having scum reads, zzzzzzzz
yet more. snore
quotes exchange between jay and dr white saying "this ass is town" not even sure which of the two he is referring to?
"quinfoil" pun 100% fluff
another snarky reply to dunya
prod of Colin
more about colin
more about colin, hey this post approaches being productive
response to colin
--------end of day 1 (he wasn't around for the end of it; there is a 21-hour gap between his last post and his next one)----------

I count about 9 actually productive posts, and in those he only talks about/gives reads of ~5 players (Jay, Dr. White, DDL, dunya, and coliniscool).
About 6 completely fluffy posts, and about 6 posts relating to the scumread quota business.

The most productive content I see is the ~4 posts you direct to Colin. How are you feeling about him now?

Night 1
first post after eod "why did you do that" presumably referring to the accumulation of votes on him while he wasn't there
"oh ok it's because i'm not posting" lol
claiming his day 1 posts weren't fluff
nah alright I'm stopping here and just summarizing the rest this is getting tedious. He defends Dr. White in an exchange with Jay about the implied meaning of "interesting."
Suspects dunya and me for the "scumread quota" thing. I can't speak for dunya but I never said anything about a "scumread quota," I just thought it was suspicious that you specifically didn't have any scumreads. There's a subtle difference there.
Oh look you admit that the argument that you've posted close to no content in your posts is valid howboudah

---Day 2---
you prod lapluie a bit
talk a little bit about the rabbit kill/justifications for it
call out lapluie for playing "with a crutch" -- ok this is actually decent hunting, have you followed it up at all? or I guess she hasn't responded yet
pretty much everything after that is defending your content to me/jay and calling me scum

so... your most significant contributions have been against colin and lap, and yet you choose to vote for me simply because I'm calling you out k dude

You did it too?

Holy crap.

Do you honestly think Quin is incapable of looking productive when he is bad?

Weak.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:37 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:17 pm
sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:32 pm @Epignosis Why didn't you let me fly?
No idea what you're talking about mate. I used my secret power and all I've got let is a protection.
I think he's referring to this:
"Careful Deployment - If you are next to a magic user or bow user on the player list, you have a 50% chance to fail your night action unless they post on the main thread in bold 'Let the Wyvern through tonight.'"

you're next to him on the draft order list, though on the list that reflects army membership he's only next to lapluie who is not magical nor a bowman

i'm not really clear why it matters if he really chose not to target anyone last night, and I don't really understand which player list his deployment is based on?

I'm the troubadour. Am I magical?

And does that mean I get some say over whether sig can act?

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:26 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:00 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:04 pm Quin has taken a lot of flak in this game for being fluffy. I have given Quin flak for being fluffy. I grant though that at least in my case, this has been a perception derived from my own progression through the thread without a thorough dig. So now I dig.

As of right now, Quin has 96 posts.

He made 33 posts during the drafting period. Remove them from consideration (I will at least, you may not be so inclined dear readers). 63 remain.

I would call the following posts fluffy in that they do not progress a hunt in a readily discernible way:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 09#p406909
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 75#p407375
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 01#p407401
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 95#p407595
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 30#p407630
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 42#p407642
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 11#p408511
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 20#p408520
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 09#p409509
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 46#p410046

10 posts.

These posts are self-defense, primarily against accusations of fluff, without an obvious reads-oriented development therein:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p406900
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 18#p409618
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 31#p410031
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 42#p410042
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 60#p410060
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 73#p410473
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 92#p410492

7 posts.

63 - 10 - 7 = 46

This leaves 46 hunting-relevant posts, or just under half of his present post count and 73% of his non-draft day post count. This is a greater percentage than I anticipated. It isn't lovely and there is still fluff, but it isn't some glaring, terrible thing either. Those who have accused Quin of doing nothing should review this assessment and his posts as well and then report their own conclusions. I would say that it as at least no longer tenable to discard Quin as having done nothing of note. That is inaccurate.

A separate accusation which would be fairer given the data available is that Quin has not engaged anyone substantively. There have been pokes, prods, and jabs -- but no continued investigation of any single thing (that I can readily observe).
This is a fluff post. You felt the best use of your energy was counting how many of Quin's posts were on-topic? You are toying with Quin and telling people why something that's clearly a bad argument against him is a bad argument, but then in the same post, you raise another bad argument that is effectively derived from the first one: That Quin's overall involvement here is not substantive.

This stinks.
Weren't you the one in Death Note who dissected every single one of the 100+ of DharmaHelper's posts, categorized them, and determined that he was hence not civilian?

I have no memory of what you are saying.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:04 am For someone who purports to value precision in language, Epi sure loves to extend things to extreme conclusions which were not in fact implied.

Because there be liars up in this piece.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:57 am
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:41 pm wait what if sprityo is ring?
Nice catch.

Someone should vig him imo.

Why not lynch him?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:45 pm If Sprityo is ring he roleblocks the entire town when killed (delaying our investigations and giving easy kills to the mafia) which makes him a primary candidate for bussing. So his insistence on being an easy lynch (the kind of thing that usually makes people want to lynch you more) and posts that suggest he doesn't care about it could be an attempt to be lynched.

Granted, this is subjective, and Sprityo could just be misinterpreted. But even then, the ring is a player who should be trying to be lynched before their teammates.

First of all, if I were that role, I still wouldn't try getting myself lynched. Outnumbering civilians is more important than blocking civilians. The former is how to win. The latter is not.

Second, if that was that person's desire, don't you think there are far easier ways to get yourself lynched?

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:56 pm I'm saying it could be both, but is more likely to just be a TS oldie.

The mafia wouldn't want all three of you around, since that give the civs another strong civ killing role, if I was mafia I'd try to get a teammate one of those roles also. Out of all three of you, assuming you're all civs, it wouldn't make much sense to kill Rabbit since he's inactive.

Yes you and MM would be on the same team, but I wasn't being that serious with that scum slips rarely happen.

I pointed this out with the Buffy game, mafia started out by killing inactive players at night instead of active and potentially dangerous civs. The mafia team ended up having SVS and Eloh both on it, they're both TS vets. I've noticed this pattern in a few other games especially when I first joined, I could probably dig up older games to prove it, but I'm to busy atm. I'd just take note of it and maybe track/investigate people who're more likely to do this.

I could also see Mac suggesting it seeing how I used that logic in our last game, but that's a tin foil.

@Jackofhearts2005 Does the triangle attack keep working after the Pegasus Knights get promoted ?

Elohcin didn't play Buffy.

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:32 am Following JJJ's logic on me I want rundontwalk to explain his behavior. He's not really adding much of value to cases. Hardly any reads at all, no explanation on his JJJ vote.

[VOTE: rundontwalk] aubergine

Still my number one suspect. [VOTE: rundontwalk] aubergine

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:40 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:38 pm
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:36 pm You would say you know Dragon is scum @MacDougall ? And that if you are wrong you have to die? And if you're right you still might have to die in case you're sacrificing scummate?
Damn you're his teammate.
I am if he's town. My concern is you're doing what I would do and sacrificing scummate for town points. Are you?

rundontwalk is teammates with DDL.

Before I get into this, let me explain why I believe DDL is bad.

First, I got the impression that he was keeping me on his good side by talking up my exercise and wanting to give me more time to devote to it. He's not questioned me once. That sort of thing is designed to keep me comfortable, but it's also meant to keep me comfortable with him.

He agreed with me about the usefulness of my thing.
He agreed with me about the overabundance of people's posts.
He agreed with me about JJJ counting Quin's posts.

That's just what I remember.

Second:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:37 am [VOTE: Iron Dwarf] aubergine

This came up and I liked the points made, especially Nutella's. Then I looked at his ISO and didn't particularly hate it but didn't love it either. Day 1 is mostly smashing Epi for the don exercise thing, then on day 2 he argues a bit more but gets off Epi's back. Coulc be a calculated move to get out of a lynch nobody is interested on anymore. Then a vote on RDW out of nowhere. Lots of "salad", I think. He is contributing, but not in a way that gives me a good vibe.

Right now I think I have much more civ suspicions than bad ones, so this one is one of the slightly bad ones.

This is full of hedging language ("didn't particularly hate it but didn't love it either," "Could be a calculated move," "I think"), and the irony here is that he calls the post "Lots of salad," despite the fact that DDL tied his vote to not one, not two, but three other people: nutella, me, and rundontwalk.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:45 pm If Sprityo is ring he roleblocks the entire town when killed (delaying our investigations and giving easy kills to the mafia) which makes him a primary candidate for bussing. So his insistence on being an easy lynch (the kind of thing that usually makes people want to lynch you more) and posts that suggest he doesn't care about it could be an attempt to be lynched.

Granted, this is subjective, and Sprityo could just be misinterpreted. But even then, the ring is a player who should be trying to be lynched before their teammates.

I addressed this "good catch," as DDL called it earlier. It's foolish. An efficient mafia team is not interested in getting lynched to role block people. Role blocking everyone is insurance, not a goal.

I have no evidence that the underlined is true. Some have said their votes don't count if they vote first. That's not a boon. Is it at all a stretch to think that sprityo has some weakness to lynches?

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:40 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:38 pm
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:36 pm You would say you know Dragon is scum @MacDougall ? And that if you are wrong you have to die? And if you're right you still might have to die in case you're sacrificing scummate?
Damn you're his teammate.
I am if he's town. My concern is you're doing what I would do and sacrificing scummate for town points. Are you?

I believe rundontwalk is accusing MacDougall of doing what he himself is doing.

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:45 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 pm Why would Mac sacrifice a scummate who currently has zero votes?
Because assumption will be he is town. Every single time I'm scum I sacrifice a scum mate when convenient for me.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:41 pm If dragon is scum is indicative of Mac being town
That is the crappiest reason for a vote I've heard all day.

Anybody can look town if you lynch their scum suspect.

That's because it's not a genuine vote.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:38 pm @Epignosis which do you see as being the more likely crime boy, between the two of DDL and RDW?

I don't consider either one more likely. I just said I find them partners, which means I find them equally likely.

The lynch is currently on someone only one person said he would draft, and Marmot is voting elsewhere.

The Dr.White is an easy lynch. JJJ is going after easy lynches early on. Dr.White? Iron Dwarf?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:50 pm
Dr. White wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:44 pm I however found JJJ "strong town reading" Colonial interesting, since it was solely on the grounds of him listing his own reads. Mafia can easily do that as well as to not appear like they are parroting . That is a very interesting link given the colonial-Mac dynamic.
Vague shit.

Dr. White wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 pm That's complete and utter bullshit JJJ and you know it. You are clearly being super daft at the original quote, which you have been called out for by others.
Read my mind, JaggedJimmyJay.

Dr. White wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 pmkeep questioning my blatant as hell meaning with the quote
Read my mind, JaggedJimmyJay.

Dr. White wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:55 pm > It means others have noticed your blatant bullshitting about not knowing what I meant. Very simple.
Read my mind, JaggedJimmyJay.

Is Epignosis buying this shutdown of Dr. White?

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:54 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:53 pm The Dr.White is an easy lynch. JJJ is going after easy lynches early on. Dr.White? Iron Dwarf?
Fuck off with this "easy lynch". Is he a civilian?

I don't know. I think you're bad and gunning for easy an lynch. Dr. White has hardly been here, and you're lynching him out of 20+ people?

Nah.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:04 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:02 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:54 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:53 pm The Dr.White is an easy lynch. JJJ is going after easy lynches early on. Dr.White? Iron Dwarf?
Fuck off with this "easy lynch". Is he a civilian?
I don't know. I think you're bad and gunning for easy an lynch. Dr. White has hardly been here, and you're lynching him out of 20+ people?

Nah.
I give absolutely zero fucks about your read. Take it, crumple it up, and throw it in the trash. It's shit. It's no good. Pull out a fresh sheet of paper and try again.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:08 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:04 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:02 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:54 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:53 pm The Dr.White is an easy lynch. JJJ is going after easy lynches early on. Dr.White? Iron Dwarf?
Fuck off with this "easy lynch". Is he a civilian?
I don't know. I think you're bad and gunning for easy an lynch. Dr. White has hardly been here, and you're lynching him out of 20+ people?

Nah.
I give absolutely zero fucks about your read. Take it, crumple it up, and throw it in the trash. It's shit. It's no good. Pull out a fresh sheet of paper and try again.
[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine
You think me and DDF are on the same Mafia team and you choose to vote for ........someone else?

Are there more than two people on a mafia team or am I in a better position than I thought?

"Prove?"

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:21 am You don't actually believe you own theory about me

So, in order to believe in something, I have to:

a) Be absolutely married and committed to it, no matter what else develops in the thread
b) Not be allowed to vote for anyone else for any reason
c) Maintain utmost confidence throughout the end of the Day phase

Get back to me on that.

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:22 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:21 am "Prove?"
Prove beyond a reasonable doubt if you will

There is always a reasonable doubt in Mafia.

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:25 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:24 am
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:21 am You don't actually believe you own theory about me
So, in order to believe in something, I have to:

a) Be absolutely married and committed to it, no matter what else develops in the thread
b) Not be allowed to vote for anyone else for any reason
c) Maintain utmost confidence throughout the end of the Day phase

Get back to me on that.
So you lost faith in your theory? Do you right now believe I am Mafia on a team with DDF?

Where do you get this?

I have one vote. Not three. If I had three votes, DDL would get one, JJJ would get one, and you would get one. Hell, you'd probably get all three.

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:35 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:32 am
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:25 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:24 am
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:21 am You don't actually believe you own theory about me
So, in order to believe in something, I have to:

a) Be absolutely married and committed to it, no matter what else develops in the thread
b) Not be allowed to vote for anyone else for any reason
c) Maintain utmost confidence throughout the end of the Day phase

Get back to me on that.
So you lost faith in your theory? Do you right now believe I am Mafia on a team with DDF?
Where do you get this?

I have one vote. Not three. If I had three votes, DDL would get one, JJJ would get one, and you would get one. Hell, you'd probably get all three.
The death of me is, per your theory, tied to DDF and vice versa unlike death of JJJ.

Which is why it doesn't make any sense for you to use your one vote so illogically

Spoiler: show

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:38 am You said me and DDF are partners. You're not voting for me or DDF. Voting for JJJ does nothing to provide evidence of this alleged partnership.

You don't actually believe we are partners, and the question is why?

How does voting for DDL (not DDF, as you keep saying) provide evidence that you are partners with him?

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:53 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:48 am
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:38 am You said me and DDF are partners. You're not voting for me or DDF. Voting for JJJ does nothing to provide evidence of this alleged partnership.

You don't actually believe we are partners, and the question is why?
How does voting for DDL (not DDF, as you keep saying) provide evidence that you are partners with him?
If you think we're partners then the answer is obvious

No, it isn't obvious.

You are accusing me of not believing what I am saying. I am not going to be pressured into voting either one of you because of that. I will vote as I please.

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:55 am Yo @Dr. White, let's vote out Epi

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall @nutella

Fine.
[VOTE: rundontwalk] aubergine

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:59 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:57 am
rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:55 am Yo @Dr. White, let's vote out Epi

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall @nutella
Fine.
[VOTE: rundontwalk] aubergine
Lol. How easily your vote can be manipulated.

Oh, so now you're manipulating me? You think too highly of your abilities.

Hey, this is neat:

Not Princess Epi's Lovable Trio of Adventuring
Epignosis - Troubadour
MacDougall - Fighter 1
sprityo - Cleric

Am I allowed to call MacDougall and sprityo my bitches?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:02 am I'll build a basic case on Epignosis:

His exercise had potential, but in the end was not used to its potential. The primary message still ended up surrounding the players who were named the most frequently. This is meaningless given the conditions of the choices are very different for X civilian responding to Epignosis in the game thread and Y mafia don responding to Jack behind the scenes. His own picks were fake. dunya said hers probably weren't representative of what she'd really do. I doubt my picks are either. With more time to think about it -- clearly as would be possible and prudent in the real scenario -- the choices are more strategic and nuanced. I suspect this applies to numerous civilians.

The don, whoever it is, could have chosen literally anyone. There's no good reason to clear people based on this premise, and there's no good reason to suspect people based on this premise. He didn't follow up much at all on the angle that had potential -- demanding reasons for civilians on drafted players from the drafters.

His role ability was to prevent a lynch. I believe this. He said himself that he thought he was threatened and used it early given that he might not have time to use it later. This leaves room for him to have saved himself, at least by intention, as a mafioso. The civilian possibility is as real as the mafia possibility, but it's a bad reason to give him credit.

He is now shitting in my Corn Flakes for going after "easy targets" all the while casting suspicion upon the guy who says whatever the hell he wants in every post. RDW makes himself an easy target by design, and it wouldn't be the first time I've seen a mafioso try to capitalize on that. It was a common mistake in RYM games. Anyone who wants to cast suspicion on RDW wouldn't struggle to find ways of doing so in his posts, because his posts are all over the place. They are always all over the place.

That's a poor summary of what my exercise did, and does not accurately summarize what I drew from it.

Additionally, some people keep talking like my exercise is over simply because I extracted some things from it they don't like. It's not.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:06 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:05 am That's a poor summary of what my exercise did, and does not accurately summarize what I drew from it.

Additionally, some people keep talking like my exercise is over simply because I extracted some things from it they don't like. It's not.
Tell me what you've done with that thing since you initially posted the "results".

I asked a question that nobody has answered.

You and dunya got the top two draft picks.

Other than me, nobody has expressed a lick of suspicion of either of you (except Dr Wilgy).

What does that tell you about the people who said they would draft you or dunya?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:11 am I asked a question that nobody has answered.

You and dunya got the top two draft picks.

Other than me, nobody has expressed a lick of suspicion of either of you (except Dr Wilgy).

What does that tell you about the people who said they would draft you or dunya?
Very little. I said I would draft dunya and I didn't suspect her at all. I said I would draft you, Mr. 3rd Place, and until now I haven't asked significant questions.

Draft choices and thread-borne suspicions do need to be related. Why should they be?

ffs

You said my exercise had applications. What did you get out of it?

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:11 am @nutella what do you think of me having to force Epi to go with his theory? He doesn't believe I'm scum.

I clearly won that exchange, thank you.

"force Epi"

Hold on...

I just...

I voted for JJJ after a moment of intensity, and rundontwalk thinks I completely abandoned my entire theory, and that he is forcing me to go back to my theory.

Unreal. Amusing, but unreal.

I also want to fuck up JJJ's case on lapluie (who also, wasn't mentioned by anyone other than Marmot):

lapluie had civilian BTSC in Mortal Kombat. It is much easier to stay invested in a game when you have BTSC.

In addition, Mortal Kombat had 106 pages of posts in NINE phases including endgame discussion.

This is at 81 pages on Day 2.

Lapluie is behind, and I think this is another case of JJJ gunning for an easy lynch.

I mean, JJJ was in Mortal Kombat, eventually found out that lapluie had civilian BTSC, this game is on page 81 on Day 2, and he suspects her for not keeping up?

What the hell?

JJJ's pets so far:

Quin
Iron Dwarf
Dr. White
lapluie

Somebody tell me he isn't going for easy, early lynches.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:29 am May I just remind everybody I'm currently on the block and afaik we're still waiting on a comprehensive case against me?

You got a vote count handy?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:30 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:15 amYou said my exercise had applications. What did you get out of it?
I got close to nothing out of it. It wasn't my thing. If it had been my thing and something I was personally invested in overseeing, I may have prodded specific people about their specific reads as they pertained to their don choices -- similar to the general question you asked, but pointed at specific names, incessantly, and constantly. I don't think the relationship need exist that you imply (I think you imply?), but it's a question which can still produce interesting answers.

As you portrayed it, whether you intended it or not, the result was a waning of the trust enjoyed by dunya and I, and essentially no effect to people who had civilian reads on us. If the latter are the point of contention, then the former shouldn't have become the focus of the discussion.

To be frank, I think the value of the exercise was best seen during it, and the "results" were about as meaningful as gun-to-head reads exercise results would be on Day 0.

I don't agree. I think most people were untruthful in their names because they didn't really give it much thought. I think mafia tried to fake some truthfulness.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:32 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:28 am JJJ's pets so far:

Quin
Iron Dwarf
Dr. White
lapluie

Somebody tell me he isn't going for easy, early lynches.
I would agree at least that Iron_Dwarf and lapluie are "easy". I don't care. Easy and civilian aren't synonymous. Sometimes mafia members are easy to lynch.

Your reasons for all of them are lazy though. Quin not engaging anyone "substantively?" lapluie not "hitting the ground running here like she did in MK?"

Lazy work. I do not believe you are a civilian, sir.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:35 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:34 am Your reasons for all of them are lazy though. Quin not engaging anyone "substantively?" lapluie not "hitting the ground running here like she did in MK?"

Lazy work. I do not believe you are a civilian, sir.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine
k

Do you have a reason to believe Quin and lapluie are civilians?

That you suspected them for horseshit reasons. I genuinely believe lapluie is behind and that this is not the same thing as MK. Quin I have less confidence about, because Quin is tricky. Neither of them have given me a reason to suspect them.

You, on the other hand, are finding easy reasons to suspect people. That's not good.

You got me voting two people there. Wish I had two votes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:39 am To be frank:

Most of the time, civilians are terrible at understanding what is suspicious behavior without objective information present to guide the hunt (flips, actions, etc). I am not great at it either. On Day 1, which is where we still are essentially, I don't object to lynching someone with a lack of civilian credit. A lot of people who have said suspicious things have also said things I think look good.

The more posts you have, the more opportunities you have to say something that someone else won't like. Oh well.

Unless someone is a glaring, awful look, I am not inclined to lynch an active player if I can see any civilian light when there's a less active player (especially in a busy-ass game where I'd expect mafia to fall behind more than civilians) who can be lynched instead. Is it easy? Sure. Is it safe? Sure. Is it a valid philosophy which I have lived by in many civilian games throughout my long Mafia life? Yeah.

BOGUS

We are not at Day 1. You keep saying that. We're at Day 2 and every civilian in this game got the chance to use a power. Every single one. I made sure that happened.

So you can talk about how there's no objective information if you want to. Every civilian got a shot.

That you should call this Day 1 Part 2 is bogus. It's Day 2. Mafia killed. Civilians got their actions in.

You are so bad.

I unfortunately don't have an opinion on colonialbob. I have not paid any attention to him.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:46 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:45 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:39 am To be frank:

Most of the time, civilians are terrible at understanding what is suspicious behavior without objective information present to guide the hunt (flips, actions, etc). I am not great at it either. On Day 1, which is where we still are essentially, I don't object to lynching someone with a lack of civilian credit. A lot of people who have said suspicious things have also said things I think look good.

The more posts you have, the more opportunities you have to say something that someone else won't like. Oh well.

Unless someone is a glaring, awful look, I am not inclined to lynch an active player if I can see any civilian light when there's a less active player (especially in a busy-ass game where I'd expect mafia to fall behind more than civilians) who can be lynched instead. Is it easy? Sure. Is it safe? Sure. Is it a valid philosophy which I have lived by in many civilian games throughout my long Mafia life? Yeah.
BOGUS

We are not at Day 1. You keep saying that. We're at Day 2 and every civilian in this game got the chance to use a power. Every single one. I made sure that happened.

So you can talk about how there's no objective information if you want to. Every civilian got a shot.

That you should call this Day 1 Part 2 is bogus. It's Day 2. Mafia killed. Civilians got their actions in.

You are so bad.
I'm drinking and can you please restate why he's bad? Simple simon.

I've been drinking for the past seven hours and I wrote the post.

JJJ is going for easy lynches- people who haven't been around, people like lapuie who he said was active MK (even though she had civilian BTSC and the game wasn't 81 pages by Day 2). I do not get the sense he's digging. He's going for easy lynches.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:47 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:47 am I unfortunately don't have an opinion on colonialbob. I have not paid any attention to him.

I'm sorry my dude. I don't suspect White or you.

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