The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:03 am Esooa has stated three suspicions that all look rather baked to me, and for similar reasons: doubling down on something unworthy of a stubborn view. This applies to her treatment of KZA, SPF, and myself -- primarily the former two since those have already involved direct interaction. The spoiler contains some of the receipts; I'm not going to spam them all in there though.

Griping with KZA about "not sure it's real" vs. "not sure it's legitimate" -- I'm not sure that's real.

Griping with SPF about taking a reserved approach to reading her after one or two games in which she made incorrect town reads -- at the least I don't think that's reasonable.

Griping with me for various level one beefs e.g. "showiness" or "made a post without a clear read in it". Refusing to view me through a "would make better posts if he was mafia" lens after meeting resistance to that read even though one of her gripes with me was that I did basically the same thing with Tony (didn't immediately assume he wouldn't make a post that is on the surface suspicious or that it's not worth poking him over on page one) It all feels a bit like activity inflation more than it feels like an effort to solve.

Spoiler: show

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:03 am

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:59 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:46 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:10 pm k Sloonei is town

Falcon's case on him I'm having trouble believing is real tbh

weirdchamp post

weak FOS Mafooa

if you were wanting to actually figure stuff out between them I have no clue why you say you have trouble believing it's real, rather than you're not sure of the legitimacy of it.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:16 am saying you're not sure if it's real = assumption the person is making it up, i.e. mafia

Not sure of it's legitimacy = not sure if their case holds water without assumption on their alignment

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:21 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:17 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:23 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:18 am in fallout mafia you stated an early town read on me without problem

What's the difference?

you were mafia, though. i've learned that the best way to read you is to keep a microscope on your progressions & the specific angles that you push, and the game hasn't gone on for long enough for me to have any meaningful opinions about you. even so, you have my GTH read on you

I feel like you're faking paranoia/skepticism cause you're not sure how you should go about reading me as mafia

But okay

she just townread you when you were a wolf. Do you not think that this would have any impact?

this was last month,

"i like esooa's p#214 (and gimmick in general) both because her gimmick is funny and because she's doing something unique and out-of-character without caring about how it's going to make other people perceive her. my meta on esooa is that she tends to carve herself into her own corners of the game as town and isn't afraid to do stuff that goes against the mindset of ~wanting~ to be townread - i think that esooa adopting her gimmick for as long as she did is something that bodes well for. i also kind of liked esooa hiveminding w/me about one of rex's posts being towny on p#241. i'm not going to pretend to know how to read esooa, but i get generally good vibes from her slot so far"

as the 305th post

After Jess town read me, while I was wolf, two games in a row

I don't think that is why she isn't giving a read on me

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:40 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:08 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:06 pm setup spec time: i wonder if this is multiball

I bet mafia-aligned players are more likely to conceive of this by page two than civilians are. How about THAT?

probably, but are mafia more likely to say it than town? no

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:02 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:56 am apparently me quoting kza to say "weird champ post" is a scum read but jjj quoting someone to say what they did is >rand mafia isn't

you love to see it

Run me through this interaction

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:11 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:07 pmI literally said after like 1 post talking to kza that it's not really important

I did almost the exact same thing with my read on Tony. What's your beef?

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:07 pmthe problem with spfs read on me has NOTHING to do with the fact she misread me before. That was over a month ago and we have played two t/t games together since then in which she did not have a problem giving a read on me

Yeah, that's the point. Why does it have nothing to do with that fact? Is it not relevant?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:19 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:16 pm my beef is my day zero read is being simultaneously discredited while being given importance to

I don't know how to explain that more

I believe that you don't know how to explain it more, and that's fine. I still don't understand what you're saying, but I get the impression this entire dialogue has encountered a communication breakdown somewhere. Oh well.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:16 pmI don't think it has any to do with misreading me because the apprehension, if it existed, would have more strongly existed directly after misreading me, not a month later. It makes no sense to me to misread me, attempt to read me twice after and be correct, then decide you're not good enough at reading me to give a thought

the timeline there is just weird

however I'm not calling jess necessarily scum for it as I did have less content than normal and it may just have to do with how she's feeling about this game

Perhaps I am missing some context. I was under the impression SPF's last game with you was Fallout 2, when she read you incorrectly, and that another recent example of the same mistake exists somewhere on the internet. Is that not the case? I literally don't know.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:49 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:19 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:11 pm [VOTE: superbestfriend] aubergine

Why?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:13 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:08 pm [VOTE: Staypositivefriend] aubergine

Yes

Why?

i found your vote amusing. i have no idea if it's serious or not

Why the self vote?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm I'd appreciate if anyone that views KZA as a high-level suspect could talk to me about why. @MacDougall you're one. @TonyStarkPrime you implied something like that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:35 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm I'd appreciate if anyone that views KZA as a high-level suspect could talk to me about why. @MacDougall you're one. @TonyStarkPrime you implied something like that.

I find KZA's play lacking town edge. There has been nothing I personally have observed where I've got the sense there was a town solving mind behind the keyword. Only being drawn into looking townie by way of omgus.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:41 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:41 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:31 pm

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:29 pm It was just a silly exchange

What is your read on tutuu?

town-lean.

Why?

Why do I have to smack you with a quote pile "case" to get this read into the thread?

Do you have other reads?

1.) From what I've read this far it appears to me that tutuu has been proactively reading the thread and trying to solve as well. This can be seen by her constantly changing read list. When confronted tutuu remained calm, cool, and collected. In addition, tutuu's thoughts were clear to me and made sense. Tutuu is not afraid to get into the thick of things and I view that as towny.

2.) I'm not overly engaged right now because I have a final tomorrow, was working on an essay, and was looking over a case study.

3.) Sloonei sounded townie to me. Just from reading his(?) posts they came across as genuine and seemed hard to fake. Everyone else up to this point has seemed kind of meh but tbh I haven't been overly diligent reading the thread.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:56 pm A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:00 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:49 pm He refuses to townread me so I'm receptive

Do something town-like.

I've been ridiculously townie so far

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:03 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm I'd appreciate if anyone that views KZA as a high-level suspect could talk to me about why. @MacDougall you're one. @TonyStarkPrime you implied something like that.

Actually sorta for the same reason as Tutuu. I've participated in my fair share of day 1 kza chops so I'm slightly leery, but my impression is that he entered the thread with a more serious tone than he has in games I've seen him previously and I was wondering if this could be a scum indication. Plus there was an interaction I didn't like but I don't remember what it was

I rand scum like once a year but I think my scum game is noticeably rigid and cold, either that or I get bussed instantly and antispew prior to my D1 chop

I am aware my tone has been more serious, it was more me trying to be a better player but now I've just gotten myself scumread so I'm pissed

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:48 pm guys if I were to say that I think that jay is a wolf here how would that be taken?

I could tinfoil it but later

---

Nanook hasn't spoken to me once but now I'm Maf to him so he can get OMGUS'd too

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:07 pm I don't think sloonei has been town enough for your day zero "sloonei's town folks" style post which I think you walked back maybe

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:08 pm Esooa idk, not townreading her yet and thought her questioning of my Falcon post was odd but she seemed to accept my explanation. I solved her off of mech in Spiderverse and was (semi) wrong about her in Fallout 2 so she's kind of a tough one for me

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:33 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:03 pm Nanook hasn't spoken to me once but now I'm Maf to him so he can get OMGUS'd too

[VOTE: KZA] aubergine

whatever

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:35 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:56 pm @KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

Lots of people are, why's his townread notable?

probably because Marmot is iso'ing me first as he said instead he was going to

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:43 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:42 pm also jay has never in his life omgused me as town and he has as mafia sample size = like 2

"omgus" is such a dumb concept and it should disappear from Mafia vocabulary

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:20 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:27 pm I got a red peek on Nanook btw

I am reading this as w/w tbh

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 pm I think that Tutuu, Jay and Alison are town. I am less confident about SPF and Sloonei but they certainly aren't driving anti town agenda to a point in which I feel compelled to solve them via threadkill.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm @staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:25 pm I don't actually care all that much about spf's self vote and joke claim shenanigans. I just needed something to stir the pot with while phone posting at work.

I'll figure out what's happening and do something with my vote accordingly.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:27 pm This dialogue between SPF and Alison reminds me of some similar exchanges between SPF and Sloonei in Fallout 2. They seemed to harbor at least some mutual suspicions, but their communication tended to be low in overt animosity -- instead they each stated their highly nuanced and specific causes for suspicion, and along the way they both seemed to acknowledge that the intended communication didn't seem to be getting through. As a host in that game I got the impression that those two kinda figured one another to be civilians, but just wanted to really do their due diligence in a thorough discussion before allowing themselves to get there. Eventually they truced it out and ended up being town/town (or something like that in my weird game). I kinda get the same impression here with SPF/Alison, like there are mutual town reads struggling to spring out through a barrier of unease.

This is an extremely specific comparison, so it may mean little or nothing. Thought I'd share anyway.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:29 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm SPF what do you think has been the towniest thing you've done so far this game? In a vacuum, what's the best reason to townread you?

i don't feel that i'm obvious town to anyone who doesn't already know how i typically play. the strongest argument i can give for me being town is that i have a lower postcount than BoKnows but a significantly higher ratio of text. i am uninterested in creating a strong presence in the thread and more interested in working in my own corner of the game and poking and prodding at things that stand out to me. if i was playing from a wolf mindset then i would be more intense, more focused on establishing particular narratives, more stilted, etc etc

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:30 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:27 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm @staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

I also had a salad for dinner tonight.

my number one takeaway from this game so far is that i don't understand what "salad" means :P

"I would vote A, B, or C" is close to the prototype for the player salad tell. It's suggestive of keeping one's options wide open when not comfortable committing to suspicions. What's holding you back from placing one of those votes right now?

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:30 am okay I'm not w/w with Michelle that's good news

maybe I can summon @Dom too

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:53 am Michelle seems town based on the night/day difference I'm seeing from when I played against her in Spiderverse

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:11 am My eyes are glazing over the walls in pages 21-23 sorry i cant ;-;

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:42 am I strive to create a perfect Mafia utopia, where trying hard is encouraged and celebrated.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:48 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:43 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:42 pm also jay has never in his life omgused me as town and he has as mafia sample size = like 2

"omgus" is such a dumb concept and it should disappear from Mafia vocabulary

agree

There has to be a word for "voting someone because they voted you", that's a pretty common occurrence

If you wanna make up your own word for it and insist on using that word go ahead, as long as your meaning is clear (I don't think anyone else uses "exe" for the TK/elim/chop, but I use it because I like it)

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:48 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:43 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:42 pm also jay has never in his life omgused me as town and he has as mafia sample size = like 2

"omgus" is such a dumb concept and it should disappear from Mafia vocabulary

agree

There has to be a word for "voting someone because they voted you", that's a pretty common occurrence

If you wanna make up your own word for it and insist on using that word go ahead, as long as your meaning is clear (I don't think anyone else uses "exe" for the TK/elim/chop, but I use it because I like it)

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:56 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:54 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 pm I think that Tutuu, Jay and Alison are town. I am less confident about SPF and Sloonei but they certainly aren't driving anti town agenda to a point in which I feel compelled to solve them via threadkill.

why Alison

Why aren't you asking him about tutuu?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:00 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:56 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:25 pm I don't actually care all that much about spf's self vote and joke claim shenanigans. I just needed something to stir the pot with while phone posting at work.

I'll figure out what's happening and do something with my vote accordingly.

I seriously don't understand posts like this. What stirring the pot does questioning something fully NAI accomplish? Like rly I'm just still hung up on people criticizing me for finding minor details to scum read people on while others are just in thread like "y'know what, I'm just going to question this. To start arguments."

I do a thing. SPF responds to said thing. Player B might then respond to SPF responding to me. Player C might respond to me by doing X. We can make reads on Player C based on X. SPF and Player B might have an extended conversation resulting in SOMETHING. All the while I'm not even here. I'm just trying to breathe life into the thread while I'm away.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:11 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:07 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:42 am I strive to create a perfect Mafia utopia, where trying hard is encouraged and celebrated.

I appreciate the sentiment but I don't recall you acting like this in bread mafia, which is a more "Serious" format, while this being closed and 22 players, is less serious, and you also said in bread mafia that "robot jay is more often scum"

Yeah I don't fault you for that. In Bread Mafia I played what was probably my loosest game in two or three years. I hardly capitalized letters and was pretty spammy. It was a sort of liberating experience to return after a few months away. That kind of play is the exception for me rather than the rule though.

And when I am a robot, I look different even from this. Here I am a boisterous fellow with joviality and cheek. My robot body is a humorless bore. I'd like to work on that, but I never seem to roll mafia so fuggit!

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:13 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:55 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm @staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

I'm just gonna note this post for later

@staypositivefriend can you link me a recent scum game

i actually can't - my most recently completed scum game is north pole oligarchy on epicmafia (RIP). i'm all town, all the time :P

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:14 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:11 am I think SPF is town

interesting! what makes you think so?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:19 am 1) My experience with spf is not such that I view her repeatedly joking about being mafia as "NAI". It is not something I will base an actual read off of, but it is also not something that I regard as being standardstaypositivefriend. But she and Jay both seemed to suggest it was a thing she did in Champs, so I guess I just didn't pay attention to it there.

2) All of this happened while I was at work. My mafia brain was operating on about 5% capacity. I glanced at the thread right around the start of day. I wanted to do Something to promote activity, but I wasn't paying enough attention for that Something to be carefully thought out. This is mostly just a routine habit for me. I saw a self-vote from a player who had joked about being mafia on Day 0. I deemed that to be Good Enough, and I responded to it. Then I put my phone away and didn't look at the game again until I got home.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:20 am Well that's a hell of a way to start a new page! Yeehaw!

Tell me about Oddmerta, ted and Esooa.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:22 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:21 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:16 am i was hoping that the heat getting off of JPIC for a while would encourage him to scumhunt and solve the game on his own time - but it seems to have done the complete opposite. it worries me that JPIC's motivation in the thread was the highest when he was under suspicion

I have been asleep the last 9 hours or so

sleeping?? during a mafia game??? the audacity....

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:24 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:55 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm @staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

I'm just gonna note this post for later

@staypositivefriend can you link me a recent scum game

Grasslands

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:25 am

Spoiler: show

Town reads
falcon
Mac
Sloonei
Strawhenge

Semi-town reads
SPF
fingersplints
Alison
Nanook

In flux maybe town reads
Michelle
Esooa
tutuu

Defer to others "town read"
Oddmerta

POE pool
KZA
Long Con
Dom
Marmot
Tony
JPIC
BoKnows
Al_Sama
tedxtr

~~~

Which read(s) in the spoiler am I wrong about, gang?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:27 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:03 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:11 am My eyes are glazing over the walls in pages 21-23 sorry i cant ;-;

interesting post. Gonna think on it more

oh? well its coz like. it starting to get a bit like grasslands. i stopped reading that game towards the middle to end. i am gold fish memory of 5 secs blub blub blub i cant digest these robot walls T_T

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:37 am i am coming around to esooa being a villager. i'll explain my thoughts about her tomorrow if i still feel the same way

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:45 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:34 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:35 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:04 pm I'd appreciate if anyone that views KZA as a high-level suspect could talk to me about why. @MacDougall you're one. @TonyStarkPrime you implied something like that.

I find KZA's play lacking town edge. There has been nothing I personally have observed where I've got the sense there was a town solving mind behind the keyword. Only being drawn into looking townie by way of omgus.

mac is town and he's an ez read

It's funny how I'm easy to read when I am town but not easy to read when I mafia.