The Syndicate

okay, so

rainbow lists are not allowed

but I think the following is in the spirit:

Negative side of neutral:
Dom
Radishes
112
Nova
Colin/rej
Quin
Jack
Michelle

Positive side of neutral:
Evenstar
Macdougall
Pawn Lelouch
Lady Lambdadelta
Iaafr
Epignosis
Sprityo
Nanook

names not in any particular order, exactly 8 in each category even though it took some massaging

that said,
[mention]Quin[/mention]
[mention]sprityo[/mention]
I'd super appreciate it if you two would at least post something

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:28 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:39 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:59 am Apparently fights happened, I haven’t read them and probably won’t if we’re being honest, but I will say anyways that everyone should cool their jets and take a deep breath, extended yell fests are not super fun usually. This format and posting restrictions are frustrating but if they’re so inhibiting just follow my lead and only reply to pings and do a semi-random pop in or two. It’s very freeing and sometimes helps you see the game a bit better from the 10,000 foot perspective.

@Evenstar if I said you’re town, would you agree?
Yes, but I'd say it's still too early for you to have that kind of hard opinion on me.

Now if you were calling Lexi town I'd agree, because I sussed Lexi multiple timea D1 and I'm still not dead

also I don't think scum lexi frustration-posts like this, she leans back and lets us tear each other apart with a few carefully selected jibes
If Lexi is genuinely frustrated, she’ll post it as either alignment I think?

I actually think you’re easier to TR (based off associations with drago) here than Lexi—we don’t know how much if any control scum had over the division, so you being alive after sussing her D1 isn’t really a point that works either way I think? Not without some assumptions about the setup I’m not really prepared to make at this point in time.

I'm assuming that this is still a mafia game, IE mafia have some way to prevent people from talking. Maybe that's selecting people for the new layer, maybe it's kills, IDK, but it remains the case that Lexi and I are in yhe same layer despite my suspicion of her D1 and in Finals she straight up NK'd me even when I was looking horrible just because she thought I'd tunnel her the next day.

Maybe I'm getting horribly outplayed, but I wanna go easy on Lexi anyway for non-play-related reasons. She doesn't need resolving right now IMO.

Also, talk to Pawn about whether you should be TRing me. He's definitely able to read me - he nailed me early as scum in both my qualifier game and my Wildcard game from specchat.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:46 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:45 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:36 pm Epi, Eva, Jack, Nova

^contains scum, maybe even more than one
triggered.gif

Why? I townread everyone in this pile except Nova, who I don’t really have a read on.
That's based on who voted against Drago and who is in this group. I hesitate to be more specific about which ones I'm leaning more towards.

Talk to me more about the other people on this list. I've read #45, but would like more details, particularly on Jack.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:52 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:46 am Also, talk to Pawn about whether you should be TRing me. He's definitely able to read me - he nailed me early as scum in both my qualifier game and my Wildcard game from specchat.
Why would I talk to pawn when a) I’m already TRing you, b) I don’t need more reasons to, c) I prefer to make my own reads when I feel like I have a good read to make.

Because Pawn will tell you I have a hellbus meta and you probably shouldn't be confidently TRing me yet. I'm interested in you having a correct view of the game, not blowing sunshine up your ass.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:58 am So I'm awake at 2am with a vomiting toddler how bout you guys?

*hugs*

10 am and avoiding studying for my midterm here

much luck

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:45 am One other question, what are we thinking set-up wise in terms of team numbers? I’ve seen references to 8 scum but do we think 1 team? Indies, etc. ?

I guessed 8 because 30/4 = 7.5 and you round up for large games, but that's probably not a unified team. Right now I would be betting ~6 team scum with ~2 independents, given that there were six team members in the movie plus Mal as a 3rd party plus maybe the target as another 3rd party. There could be surprises in there: I for one can't wait for someone to suddenly get hit with a train from out of nowhere

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:02 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:00 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:59 am Hallo Colin good chum! Welcome to fucktown.
Thanks Mac. I’ve got little to no clue what’s going on so if you’re bad and want to pocket me feel free.
Me bad? No. Never.

You seem cute though.

drago/mac sleaze team 2019?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:11 pm Jackofhearts2005 You asked me to name three players. I don't think we should be too liberal with this type of thing. I was thinking (as I was falling asleep ironically) about the mechanics of doing so and think our chances of randomly lynching a scum here are better if the scum don't know who the town are misreading. ie. Our chances are better if the scum stack votes on a player who gets few to no errant townie votes.

Feel free to demonstrate why I'm wrong here.

If our votes are too diffuse then scum can literally just stack votes to ML the towniest player. I want to avoid the situation where the unseen votal looks something like like:

Obvious Town: 4x scum and a paranoid Villa
Scum: 4x Villa
Scummy-looking Town: 2x Villa
Lurker: 3x Villa
Hard to read Town: 2x Villa
Another Scum: 1x Villa

Leading to an obvious townie getting lynched and nobody knowing who did it because all votes were anonymous and the scum can just lie.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:28 pm I dunno I tend to think that if it was left unsaid that most or at least a good portion of us would vote along similar lines if twas simply the objective to "vote for whomever you think is the most objectively scummy". If that person happens to be scum then voila.

- oh, you're betting that 112 is scum

... ohhhhhhhhh

- Yeah, Mac's right, the scum ought to be under significant pressure after the loss of their Godfather yesterday and are probably going to want to play conservatively rather than risk a second scum lynch in a row

I still think they might stack on someone "at the edge of the PoE" though and hope a couple townies misfire

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:22 am Here’s where I’m at as of mid page 3. I’ll fill in the rest and move them about as I go. Players are in no particular order with the groups.

Town
Nutella
Mac
Epi
Creature

Maybe town
Benson
Eva
Michelle
Sprityo

Null
Nova
Quin
DF
Juliets
LC
Pawn

Maybe scum
Nanook

Scum vote pool
Radishes
Ifaar
112

... Why are Nutella, Creature and Benson in this list? None of them are even here. Do you have access to the old thread somehow, or are you just copying people's night reads?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:05 pm “Poorly worded” implication that Eva was “chaos posting” and therefore scum. Talk about a smear campaign.

We’ve gone over your post on Eva. I didn’t like your post(s) on Epi where he did long interactive isos and came to some sort of conclusion about the alignment of each player. I think they make Epi look really good and since the D1 thread is now gone, those posts are basically allowing me to develop reads on players I paid no attention to D1 or who posted in the 10 or so pages I missed.

Here’s what you have to say about it though.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:40 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:38 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:35 pm Damn, I'm seeing why Epi has a rep

this is good casework
I can't remember him actually doing this before lol
How do you feel about an scum!Epignosis world?

He's burying the thread in mountains of quotes and if you actually read some of his thoughts on them they're lacking.

I also wasn't a fan of his EoD voting behaviour - he was a counter-wagon for awhile (rather than 112) but never voted for Drago even for self-preservation.
Talk about a smear campaign.

I called your reads level 1 because you admitted they’re basically pure wagonomics and there’s nothing more to say about them. I don’t take it back.

SHROOP?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:09 pm Actually, first I'll quickly make my position clear:

A) It is ridiculous to suggest scum weren't on the 112 wagon, regardless of 112's alignment. If anyone was actually here and watching in real time (I was keeping up, but was only half-focused because of real life matters) then at 7 mins to go the wagons were 8-5 (Drago-112) and by 3 mins to go they were 8-8. It was literally only the last minute that Drago was decidedly lynched.

B) 112's alignment obviously affects matters, but I simply hadn't enough time to cover both town!112 and scum!112 worlds before D2 ended. I tackled town!112 first, because the last minute fluctuations felt, to me, that scum tried to save Drago but didn't have enough of them present to do it.

C) From a town!112 worldview, the votes I pointed out (Nova and Eva) looked most obviously like scum trying to save Drago. A few others (TSP, Epi, Jack) for various reasons might be seen as scummy, might not be. Creature and Elephant were NAI.

C.1) I had Evenstar as likely V yesterday, but based on her vote I began to look at her under a red light. Her play this round has reinforced my view, as I feel she's not actually focused on gamesolving and is instead tossing questions to her familiars (Nook, Pawn, sorta LLD) with a touch of chaosposting.

C.2) I had Epi as null+ yesterday, and didn't initially mind his SoD reads. But his analysis of Evenstar was lacking, IMO, as he cleared her for things that she should not be cleared for. Seeing as he was one of my 'potential scum votes' I pushed a bit there, and when he responded to me I liked his responses well enough. But a potential association has been established in my scum!Eva worldview. And I don't accept clearing him for 'hard work', as I seem to recall someone in the D1 thread pointing out Epi does that as either alignment.

C.3) Jack I went from scumread to townread and then to null in D1. I had no plans to push there but his recent attempt to discredit everything I've said here has created an association within my worldview as well.

C.4) Nova was, I thought, actually the scummiest vote, but so far the other three have all hinted at a scumread of him, I think? So IMO he's either the scum I'm looking for or the odd one out.

Took too much time on that. Definitely need to get to work now.

A) I agree.
B) I have no idea what to think about 112. The wagonomics say town, their play says scum. Now that I consider again, I feel like the "godfather save" theory could be correct: it explains why the last-ditch Epignosis counterwagon was a thing, the weird collapse of the 112 wagon, and why 112 still looks awful today.
C) Honestly, I stand by my 112 vote. They've been weirdly abrasive and noncontributory all game. Maybe I should've trusted my distaste for Dragomir and voted there, but IME my gut reads suck.

C.1) I scumhunt by calling people scum until one of them makes it obvious they are. That seemed to be banned in this environment. Since then, Dom's posting has made it pretty clear that I'm actually allowed to suspect people, so I'm putting more pressure down now.
C.2) I agree that hard work isn't clearing, but there are other reasons to not suspect Epignosis, such as the late counterwagon on him and the tone quality of his posts. (I get that you don't like his tone/analysis depth: personally I feel like he's doing the right level to actually solve rather than to advertise "look at me I'm so town.")
C.3) I don't remember anything of value from Jack D1 and his D2 doesn't appeal to me either. He definitely deserves pressure.
C.4) Nova's vote was terrible, and he's lurking like hell. He was also a participant in the counterwagon against Epignosis. The evidence against him is pretty damning IMO.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:14 pm Is SHROOP like

BROOOWWRRRR!!!

Scott Howard's Rule Of Odd Posts. "Posts with obvious errors caused by editing are more likely made by mafia."

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:16 pm @Michelle

612 and 615 should give you an idea of why I suspect Radishes.

This is not a real reason, this is "look at these posts I think they're bad." Point at actual specific things you thought were "dishonest."

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:48 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:43 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:14 pm Is SHROOP like

BROOOWWRRRR!!!
Scott Howard's Rule Of Odd Posts. "Posts with obvious errors caused by editing are more likely made by mafia."
It wasn’t an error. I posted that sentence twice on purpose, same as radishes labeled a bunch of my posts “smear campaign” on purpose.

Sure, fine, whatever. Why did you ignore my earlier question to answer this one?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:51 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:44 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:16 pm @Michelle

612 and 615 should give you an idea of why I suspect Radishes.
This is not a real reason, this is "look at these posts I think they're bad." Point at actual specific things you thought were "dishonest."

612 is a Radish posts where he quotes a post of mine where I point out a specific thing that I think it dishonest it also provides context for MY post, 615, where I point out a specific thing that I think is dishonest.

Michelle: Tyt answering my question.
Jack: I already did right here.

...I can't ask the followup I wanted to because it's about your read of a specific person and that's banned

... what two other players do you think are of similar scumminess to Nova?
What two other players do you think are of similar scumminess to Epignosis?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:55 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:52 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:48 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:43 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:14 pm Is SHROOP like

BROOOWWRRRR!!!
Scott Howard's Rule Of Odd Posts. "Posts with obvious errors caused by editing are more likely made by mafia."
It wasn’t an error. I posted that sentence twice on purpose, same as radishes labeled a bunch of my posts “smear campaign” on purpose.
Sure, fine, whatever. Why did you ignore my earlier question to answer this one?
Probably because I big brain read from the beginning to the end and also forward from my first reaction to the beginning post.

So I’ve read like the first 5 pages and the last 5.

Or I just missed it.

What’s your question?

You actually did answer it but I have two new ones now.

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:05 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:19 am that said,
@Quin
@sprityo
I'd super appreciate it if you two would at least post something
im working my way through the thread now, ill be sure to post something in about an hour before i go to sleep

I'll hold you to this.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:06 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:02 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:00 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:59 am Hallo Colin good chum! Welcome to fucktown.
Thanks Mac. I’ve got little to no clue what’s going on so if you’re bad and want to pocket me feel free.
Me bad? No. Never.

You seem cute though.
I wish to see content from Rej's slot/ @ColinIsCool

Mafia games related what 'cute' means @MacDougall ?

@Jackofhearts2005 you may tyt with my request i will go to sleep anyway in short time.

Speculating about the existence of anothe thread is really useless this DP for all of us here because all we see game related is only this one. This is our dream we need to solve and we should avoid any distraction.
I’ll do my best but I think I missed upwards of 80 pages (at least) of content that all of this phase’s content is predicated on, so ...

I’ll reiterate that I find myself agreeing most strenuously with Mister Radishes, to the extent that I can grasp matters.

stop impersonating elephant and give me some real reasoning, even if it sucks.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:09 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:08 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:06 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:02 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:00 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:59 am Hallo Colin good chum! Welcome to fucktown.
Thanks Mac. I’ve got little to no clue what’s going on so if you’re bad and want to pocket me feel free.
Me bad? No. Never.

You seem cute though.
I wish to see content from Rej's slot/ @ColinIsCool

Mafia games related what 'cute' means @MacDougall ?

@Jackofhearts2005 you may tyt with my request i will go to sleep anyway in short time.

Speculating about the existence of anothe thread is really useless this DP for all of us here because all we see game related is only this one. This is our dream we need to solve and we should avoid any distraction.
I’ll do my best but I think I missed upwards of 80 pages (at least) of content that all of this phase’s content is predicated on, so ...

I’ll reiterate that I find myself agreeing most strenuously with Mister Radishes, to the extent that I can grasp matters.
stop impersonating elephant and give me some real reasoning, even if it sucks.
Prompt me in a direction and I’ll do my best. I am struggling a little with the rules because there’s only one person I want to vote for really.

What do you think of 112, Dom and LLD?

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] I'm still waiting on those reads.

also, where the heck is [mention]novaselinenever[/mention]

iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:26 pm I haven't been reading pages I missed

does anybody scumread epi other than lld

Radish, and idk maybe Mac? He's super likely town imo

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:29 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:25 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:16 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:11 pm I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.
- my bad, it was Radishes and Iaafr who were sussing him and I'm used to their reads being bad lol
Okay well with the way you attack people I'd double check the facts first because it's pretty lame.
Seconding Mac's comment here because that was basically my entire basis for voting Evenstar yesterday.

yeah, I'm working on it.

112 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:33 pm 112 - town
Dom - I haven't particularly liked anything I've seen here, but I've also not read this slot extensively and don't have the liberty of checking D1 again. Entirely within my list of suspects.
Epignosis - posting quantity without quality in regards to ISOs and a D1 list I seem to recall. Was on my wagon, which could be NAI in a lot of ways but also doesn't serve as a good look for him.
Evenstar - I think I'm jiving with her a lot, and her shifts in thought seem genuine. Powerwolf candidate but not exactly where I want to look right now- something tells me she'll self-solve if we leave her alone, although I recognize the dangers there.
iaafr - I talked about him in my last post.
Jackofhearts2005 - I think there's a lot of agenda that can be inferred from his posts, although I haven't paid overly much attention to him (or anyone) and do recall posts of his that I've liked. I'd say he's within my suspect list.
Lady LambdaDelta - don't remember anything from her. sorry. this is my bad.
MacDougall - does not resemble himself in other games I've played with him, and I've only ever seen town Mac. I have gotten 'well, that can't be faked' vibes from some of his posts, but I'm gonna be honest and say I wouldn't be surprised if he flips wolf.
Master Radishes - I'll take a good look at him and make my own post here. I've played over 100 games with him as he's said- I am going to focus my energy here and help everyone else get a very good idea of how to read him and what his contributions this game say when weighed against my knowledge of his metas.
Michelle - leaning town? lol
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - see: michelle
novaselinenever - don't remember any posts from exactly, but remember being pinged by things they've posted. could be scum.
Pawn Lelouch - i'd lean town. ask eva. and ask pawn about eva. i guess.
Quin - don't remember any posts from.
Rej / ColinIsCool - probably scum
sprityo - idk

... 112 could be town???

please explain why you've been so harsh this game if you're town, gal

your tone is way off

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:34 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:06 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:34 pm
112 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:25 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:22 pm I’m right here, mongrel.
bro you have me, who's town, at the bottom of it, along with iaafr who's prolly town as well and MR who is likelier town than not

everyone scummy is in your null tier

gimme a break lol
I don’t have your role card and ifaar seems to be blatantly lying about how he treated Drago.

Case my null list if I should be scumreading these players.

Nova
Quin
DF
Juliets
LC
Pawn
yea but am I lying in a scummy way : brain:
BatmanTASeyesnarrow.gif

You're still here? And you still haven't gotten me those reads?

... if 112 is town, then Epi could still be a scum wagon.

... and he hasn't checked back into the thread since he dumped all his night stuff on us.

... and he said he wouldn't...

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:18 am I'm going to bed. I will not be available until evening tomorrow.

Please someone copy my stuff. Let others see it if I don't wake up.

... is this

literally

my qualifier scumgame

post giant walls, don't reply to criticism, let everyone assume no scum would ever do that much work?

the appeal to "please save my work" smells deeply of LAMIST to me

"look at all this I've done, don't let it be lost"

did I get pocketed?

[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention] give me a second pair of eyes here I'm having a crisis of confidence

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:42 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:14 pm Jackofhearts2005 I'm still waiting on those reads.
What, the missing ones?

I’m up to here but I’m probably still missing players and at least ifaar says he deserves a new look if my read on him is based on his early posts, which it is.

Town
Nutella
Mac
Epi
Creature

Maybe town
Benson
Eva
Michelle
Sprityo
Boopiny

Null
Nova
Quin
DF
Juliets
LC
Pawn
Tony
TL

Maybe scum
Nanook
Vanity

Scum vote pool
Radishes
Ifaar
112

oh for crying out loud

name two alive players you read similarly to Epignosis and two alive players you read similarly to Nova

iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:47 pm investigatives can't claim in this setup!!!!! the biggest potential payoff of a godfather is a single slot hard defending for no apparent reason!!!

*blinks*

that

is significant

and says that 112 is almost certainly town

scum are not going to hard defend their godfather under these kinds of harsh anti-claim conditions

aight who pushed the idea of the Godfather first they scum

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:08 pm Game isn't until 8:08, so I have ten minutes.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:20 pm
Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious
As far as I remember, my vote went there for no real reason at all. Reasons developed later. One big one for me was that 112 voted for me based on something he said- not something I said- and framed it as though it made me guilty. That's trash. That's trying to keep his hands clean voting for someone nobody was really talking about. Don't believe me? 112 ended up on Trustworthy Liberal- someone nobody was really talking about.

Bear in mind that if I'm bad, I am not letting my godfather get lynched Day 1. I know that might not mean anything to you since you do not know me, but when I am on a mafia team, I try to make optimal, coordinated decisions and not drop the ball. Letting your godfather get lynched Day 1 is arguably the most sub-optimal thing you can do.

If 112 is Dragomir's teammate, it makes all the sense in the world to let himself (112) get lynched. That would preserve the godfather. 112 didn't have the thread presence to push anybody else, couldn't vote for himself (and maintain any credibility), and if he voted for Dragomir late, he would be surrendering his godfather with less hope that he could be spared. I wonder if 112's hands were tied.

This is the first mention of "Godfather" in the thread and it's a strong argument put forwards by Epignosis.

Epignosis is an experienced player and absolutely should have known better than to argue this given the anti-claim rules.

Epignosis is trying to distort Town's worldview and get 112 lynched.

Radishes and Pawn then picked up the godfather idea and ran with it, IIRC. They might not be scum but they sure as heck deserve sus points for that.

*goes to ctrl-f godfather through the entire thread*

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:20 am
iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:10 am pawn wheres your needle on me rn

I keep getting vibes you're the TMI bussy scum in this game, any way for me to rule that out?
Also I doubt you'll believe self meta for obvious reasons but I lean far more on the Beck side of the scale. I bus only when I have to and I'm not going to constantly call out a teammate as scummy and vote them up when there are other wagons available.

Especially when they are the godfather. It doesn't matter if I think they're being sleazy, I can work with that, I've certainly worked with worse. I'm not going to throw away that mechanical advantage for any level of credit Day 1.

Pawn seems to agree that the godfather is highly valuable, and uses it to directly deflect suspicion from Iaafr.

Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:26 am
iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:18 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:17 am iaafr speculating about a mera he doesn't know a thing smh

self meta is trash. my MU profile has all my games, i had time to put links and alignaments until summer.

You as player can't read me and your read is so much based on meta?
hey

what are your reads

remember to abide by this gameday's rules

if youre listing scumreads you need to list 3+ without showing order between them
From the people in this thread
Evenstar may be scum because i suspected her previous day and she voted last (i think) for the counter wagon, no matter 112s AI she wanted to save her godfather if she is mafia
Nova is scummy and claimed scum. No need to say many words
LLD so complainy is nagl, i skimmed her Iso and saw her role playing as hydra of 4 (i doubt she is a real hydra)

so here i'm at. Ah and Rej's slot may be scum, but i have just 60% in that direction

Michelle uses "the godfather is valuable" to scumread me

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:53 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:08 pm Game isn't until 8:08, so I have ten minutes.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:20 pm
Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious
As far as I remember, my vote went there for no real reason at all. Reasons developed later. One big one for me was that 112 voted for me based on something he said- not something I said- and framed it as though it made me guilty. That's trash. That's trying to keep his hands clean voting for someone nobody was really talking about. Don't believe me? 112 ended up on Trustworthy Liberal- someone nobody was really talking about.

Bear in mind that if I'm bad, I am not letting my godfather get lynched Day 1. I know that might not mean anything to you since you do not know me, but when I am on a mafia team, I try to make optimal, coordinated decisions and not drop the ball. Letting your godfather get lynched Day 1 is arguably the most sub-optimal thing you can do.

If 112 is Dragomir's teammate, it makes all the sense in the world to let himself (112) get lynched. That would preserve the godfather. 112 didn't have the thread presence to push anybody else, couldn't vote for himself (and maintain any credibility), and if he voted for Dragomir late, he would be surrendering his godfather with less hope that he could be spared. I wonder if 112's hands were tied.
Thank you for the response, and I'm fine with your reasoning for voting 112. And obviously I agree with the rationale around preventing a Godfather lynch - hence why I'm so concerned about the last minute votes for 112 that smell like an attempt to save Drago. (Evenstar and Nova, that is.)

Re: third paragraph - I don't recall 112 being around at EoD, and their own wagon sprung up relatively quickly towards the end (it was floating around 2-3 votes, iirc, but only became a serious counter-wagon in the final, eh, 20-30 minutes or so). So I don't think there's much we can read into someone simply not being present.

Radish agrees strongly that "preventing a godfather lynch" was important.

Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:39 am if we think at gidfather's role as not being so important like Iaafr says then he was maybe bussed, and so we have to tinfoil later in the game his wagon. I would go for agenda-y players before this.

Based on Drago voting Mac i don't know if we can clear him and put him as lock town.

Maybe the godfather has a back up as green peek so Drago played bad on purpose.

I would take more notes too if i knew we cannot see the day 1 anymore, my notes are all until post 900 and after i gave up from lack of time.

I don't know if this is town openmindedness or TMI, but it's worth weighing into a Michelle read.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:59 am
iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:54 am radishes my main issue with your EOD analysis is that you seem to be taking it for granted that scum thought saving dragomir would be a longterm good plan and worth conspicuously saving despite his apparently horrible standing which would imply he wouldnt last more than 2 more phases imo

seems like an agendaed assumption
The 112 counterwagon was a valid one, though - if 112 ended up lynched and flipped town, no one would point the finger at any one voter. 112 has been a viable scum candidate and we'd all shrug and move on.

As for Drago, there are plenty of valuable scum roles in the game, but surely the Godfather would be one worth saving if there's a chance?

I just don't see a scum attempt to prevent Drago's lynch as a risky move - if it had worked. And it nearly did. It was literally the last two minutes that Hyena and Long Con (I think) voted to lynch Drago.

Yeah Radishes is full of shit regarding "I wasn't pushing the Godfather thing."

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:28 pm I dunno I tend to think that if it was left unsaid that most or at least a good portion of us would vote along similar lines if twas simply the objective to "vote for whomever you think is the most objectively scummy". If that person happens to be scum then voila.
- oh, you're betting that 112 is scum

... ohhhhhhhhh

- Yeah, Mac's right, the scum ought to be under significant pressure after the loss of their Godfather yesterday and are probably going to want to play conservatively rather than risk a second scum lynch in a row

It's worth noting I got caught out by this as well, which makes me feel a bit better about Pawn and Radishes because we're all not native to Syndicate. Still side-eyeing Michelle though: shouldn't she be used to this style of game?

It's also worth noting that Epignosis is a very long-time member of The Syndicate, where I am told that anti-claim rules like this are pretty standard. He should absolutely know better than this.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:35 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:11 pm What do you think of 112, Dom and LLD?
112: tough to get a read on because there is so much that I clearly missed for there to be a huge wagon. One thing in their favor though is that if they were scum I would expect scum to sacrifice them rather than the Godfather, right? Based on content in this thread so far I am null.

Dom: felt like the civ Dom I have seen before, with more GIFs. I understood where he was coming from eventually. Tentative thumbs up

LLD: not enough content, just a lot of GIFs and complaining. Lean more wolf than not because a wolf would prob be more predisposed toward complaining if their Godfather got lynched but that’s pretty much all I got

Side-eyeing Colin for this as well.

iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:55 pm radishes, who has been foremost pushing you on that logic

lmao

It's a good thing I checked rather than accepting this because it ain't, it's Epignosis.

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30 who im not gonna look up]

And if I just toss in my strong reads from D1 in two more colors...

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30 who im not gonna look up]

... yeah, I like these reads.

{Epignosis, Nova, Radishes}

iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:53 pm this is two days in a row now where Eva's ridiculed me for scumreading somebody then scumread or voted them later that day

(Nutella, epi)

I should listen to you more often I guess

{Colin, Jack, Dom}

iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:59 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:58 pm {Colin, Jack, Dom}
this is indeed the safer and less tinfoily feeling pool

I feel like I might want to give Colin another day, they just subbed in
{Nova, Jack, Dom}?

eh w/e call it {nova, colin, jack, dom}, there's still like 24 hours left in the day

colin can post like a big boy

so can nova if they ever decide to exist

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:27 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:42 pm [10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30 who im not gonna look up]

And if I just toss in my strong reads from D1 in two more colors...

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30 who im not gonna look up]

... yeah, I like these reads.
Pardon me but what the fuck does this mean

same kind of two-color readslist Sprityo did, just with pink/dark blue for scum/town reads from Day 1
the wagon formation here looks good to me

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