The Syndicate

I personally wouldn't lynch Made. I'm not sure I'd lynch Rico either, but he's more enigmatic. This behaviour I've seen from him when town, but I guess he'd do it as a baddie too. NAI.

Turns out I made it back before the lynch.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:49 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:46 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:45 pm Golden, what makes Dom not a "policy lynch?"
Me actually having grounds to read him as bad.
Can you explain? Dom is someone I usually feel is a dart throw. Right now his post history is unicorns and shit.

Gut feels, but I've never felt Dom is a dart throw for me. He's a person I have a better than average history of reading. But it's day one too...

Long story short, I think he's bad, I don't have an objective case that I'm going to use to persuade others.

Boomslang wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:56 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:58 pm Vote Made

Unhelpful questions, dodging my questions, dodgy play in general. Not a lot of content, IMO. Worth a vote more than the current lynch targets, at any rate. Don't like it? Suggest your own targets and get something done. Peace.

linki: hahaha don't vote Jack pls
Why so? I don't see you defending him in previous posts, other than an unexplained in your gut read list. Jack even admits that his argument defending the lololol was "the dumbest argument I have ever made in a mafia game." I see a lot of proactive defense from him as well, asking to be pinged and whatnot.

Also, I don't think the Rico push has much merit. In a game with this many secrets, it's not unreasonable to have smiley-only posting for a bit. Admittedly, I've seen a lot done with that, and he's not making any effort to contribute within that limitation.

Neverwhere is interesting. Says she looks forward to playing with Made, then votes him for "making a joke of everything" as unhelpful play. Even though Rico's play is objectively less helpful and she makes jokes like "Puppies pee on everything." Could be projection.

Linki: Spirit, you're putting words in Jack's mouth. Asking you what you think about me could indicate suspicion of me; it could also be an attempt to pry info from you. And not admitting that possibility is deflection.

Throwing some side-eye shade at this post.

Why would secrets be in play when we haven't had a night period yet?

Neverwhere responded to Made saying nice to meet you, why wouldn't she engage in those pleasantries. Why would it be suspicious that she would vote for someone she wanted to play with anyway? Shouldn't you vote for who you thnk is bad even if you do want to play with them?

Wilgy, if I wanted you dead and I was bad, surely my team would just nk you? It makes no sense that you'd think df was on my team or was bad because of a DAY vote

(In case this is lost in people - I'm just pointing out how wilgy just did exactly what he accused me of being bad for doing)

I don't think neverwhere is bad.

Who is rico not compatible with?

Let it be on record, for better or worse, that I oppose the Made lynch, and do not think there is a single good vote on there. Made is my strongest town read, and I'm surprised at how little engagement there was on this point.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:32 pm Lol I took too long to decide and missed it. Suits me right.

Who would you have decided. Say now before the ninja post.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:21 pmWhat did this post gain you?

Smug satisfaction?

I'd agree that he probably isn't compatible with LoRab, but that's about it.

linki - what are the reasons I should have been satisfied?

Made wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:35 pm Anyone know of another mafia site with a game about to start?

A heist is about to start. But don't overplay your hand, if you survive I'll look side-eye at this.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:36 pm What are the reasons I should have been satisfied?
Im unsure, but yours was wrong.

When people incorrectly identify me as bad, and then give bad reasons, and then defend it when I point out why those are bad reasons, I can't help it if I find it satisfying when they, themselves, do exactly the same thing that they accused me of being bad for doing.

Damn, Steve was a big asset.

The CivBux I'm trying to earn is still to convince people that [the strategy that shall not be named] works. We're better off letting people convince us why others are town than why they are bad.

However, I think today is full of info. I have some prime suspects now.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:46 pm
Boomslang wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:45 pm Frak.Well, congrats on earning your CivBux™, Golden.
Eh. 2 baddie teams means Golden's grandstanding doesn't even convert into a half an INH Civ-Simoleon.

Nor should it. Townie points to inh.

@Jack - you can normally rely on some natural nightkill attrition in multi-scum games, but you can't refuse to help each other solve the game to the extent it undermines our ability to catch baddies. I've been part of games where, after a couple of baddies down, the teams join into a single team and you never hear about it. You can't fully rely on mechanics.

Besides, just because we agree someone is town doesn't mean they are. We might just as well be pushing the mafia into killing one of the opposite mafia by accident.

I find the stuff pointed at me hilarious. Anyone who knows me well should have me as nothing but pure green by this point. This is one of those games where I am making absolutely no effort to disguise the fact that I'm on my town meta. There is literally zero about my play that resembles my baddie game. Having said that, I didn't think Jack could read me in the first place

PS Jack - if you want committal, wait for tomorrow. I have two people I'm confident are mafia. I'm just not saying it at night.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:43 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:30 am @Jack - you can normally rely on some natural nightkill attrition in multi-scum games, but you can't refuse to help each other solve the game to the extent it undermines our ability to catch baddies. I've been part of games where, after a couple of baddies down, the teams join into a single team and you never hear about it. You can't fully rely on mechanics.

Besides, just because we agree someone is town doesn't mean they are. We might just as well be pushing the mafia into killing one of the opposite mafia by accident.
I don't disagree with any of this. Couple odd turns of phrase, here. Implying I'm going "refuse" do do anything but "rely" on mechanics.

I'm not using 'you' in the sense of 'jack' and implying you're going to do that. I'm talking general, like.

I actually do think you can read me ok Jack, I'm just teasing. But people who know me should know that 'raptor testing fences' is absolutely never going to be my baddie game. I'm exhibiting a whole lot of behaviours that naturally draw heat, like being enigmatic and not really appearing to care that much. I defy anyone to find a baddie game where I do that.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:17 amNone of this is about alignment, so far as I can tell.

That's exactly right, and it's because I'm neither reading Wilgy as bad nor trying particularly hard to defend against his case. I'm just having fun.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:26 amGolden, what is your current read on Wilgy and Rico?

Both good I think, but they have to be probably the two players I most can't read for shit.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:10 pmI believe he's trying to replicate a supatown Golden, but his views and angles are coming from something that is not a hunter.

Here is all the evidence you need to see that Wilgy can't read me very well. I am literally making zero effort to replicate supatown Golden.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:35 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:31 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:10 pmI believe he's trying to replicate a supatown Golden, but his views and angles are coming from something that is not a hunter.
Here is all the evidence you need to see that Wilgy can't read me very well. I am literally making zero effort to replicate supatown Golden.
Allow me to rephrase. I meant that you were trying to replicate a supatown in general. Not a supatown golden in specific.

Allow me to rephrase - I'm specifically trying not to play as any kind of supatown.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:36 pm Hey, is there anyone here who can summarize Eloh's meta?

Yes.

Epignosis.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:08 pm well according to golden, golden's acting exactly how he does when he's a civilian, so I don't see any way anyone else can contradict him on that

also, if golden is highly aware of how he is when he's a civilian to "people who know him," wouldn't he try and, I dunno, act exactly that way when he's bad?

just some brain food

No

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:11 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:08 pm well according to golden, golden's acting exactly how he does when he's a civilian, so I don't see any way anyone else can contradict him on that

also, if golden is highly aware of how he is when he's a civilian to "people who know him," wouldn't he try and, I dunno, act exactly that way when he's bad?

just some brain food
Yeah. He has fooled me before. I forget which game, but it was whenever he was bad recently and did a good job of looking like his civ self.

The case is that I don't look like my town self, eh? You're making my point for me.

If I'm bad I'm damn well going to look like what people think of as town golden.

I think inh has run that exact argument twice against me and been wrong both times. When I don't care what I look like, it's because no one is relying on me. I wouldn't use that as a baddie because getting lynched early for not looking like my 'town self' is stupid when bad.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:32 pm Classic WIFOM.

Town Golden will look like Town Golden. What we see is (apparently) not town Golden, therefore, it is mafia Golden. Mafia Golden would stand out less and would behave more like town Golden, therefore, it must be town Golden.

Exactly!

DFaraday wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:56 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:20 pm If I'm bad I'm damn well going to look like what people think of as town golden.
But you just said your play this game looks exactly like your civ game.

There's a gap between what my civ game actually is and what people perceive it to be. I know that when I'm bad I have to play to what people perceive to be my town game.

My town game actually covers a very broad spectrum, but my baddie game only covers the spectrum of where I feel people will safely perceive me as town.

lol, dom with the big no u.

I don't have to answer a question just because someone asks it. They didn't answer my questions either. As Jack said 'I'm a raptor testing the fence'.

Because he's on her baddie team.

Screw it, night or not. 95% sure nutella is bad, enough that I intended to place my vote immediately upon day starting. About 80% that Dom is on a team with her.

Nutella's iso is noncommittal. People should have a look. I don't buy that she couldn't make up her mind on the vote and was too late... I think she has a vote manipulation role and didn't want to risk creating information through her vote in such a tight vote. She's tiptoeing around things, especially her read of me.

If I had to bet on their third man, it's Jack. He's reminded me of Mass Effect Jack all game long.

And I think Jack's trying to do a job on sprit, sprit's responses have felt genuine to me.

Other team? Less sure... I could see people like DF, neverwhere (yes, I know I said she was good yesterday, but I now see people's point about her Made vote...). LC still doesn't give me good feels Made voters generally should be looked upon with suspicion. But I haven't found a hook into seeing a second team as a whole yet. Jack doesn't have to be on the nutella team.

linki @ elo - good question, who was that?

Hey, Wilgy.

THATS what me trying to supatown looks like.

Now, I'll go back to my regularly scheduled programming.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:28 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:21 pm Who was it that said, "please don't vote jack" out of nowhere yesterday at end of day 1? I wanted to inquire about that.
Me, that was me. I did that.

I don't think you're on a team with Jack. Why did you do that?

Hey speed... do I still sort of align with your reads after that little outburst?

Oh, that's a wolf? I thought it was a cat.

I have never understood why people think I'm liable to just start bussing someone out of the blue.

Jack is an independent read. Could be aligned with a nutella team or the other team, but I see him as compatible with nutella/dom at this point.

@inh - I think you are good this game, and also I know your brain works very differently from mine, so I'm interested in your take on nutella.

I took that rico is advocating an inh/nutella/golden team in which there is a truckload of bussing going on.

I can kind of see why rico might link nutella and me. Nutella has been treading very carefully around me all game. He's seeing the same stuff that has me thinking nutella is bad.

My current "town core" as I see it

Me
speechuck (heh, that was an accident, but I ain't fixing it)
Wilgy
Rico
Epi
LoRab
Maybe inh and eloh as well, but I find them harder to be sure of
I'd like to throw Tony in but I don't know him well enough

inh being his own teammate would be kind of epic.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:38 pmWere you even in that game? Tell me about ME Jack and how I'm similar in these games.

It's just the vibe.

I wasn't playing. I was in spectator chat saying 'why do they keep not lynching Jack'. I basically spent the whole game waiting for you to get lynched.

I don't think you are particularly bussy, and actually I'd go so far as to say your recent posts are indicative that you aren't nutella-aligned.

Why do you think Dom is good? I think Dom is bad because look at his big post when he came back and specifically what he said about nutella.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:48 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:45 pm Why do you think Dom is good? I think Dom is bad because look at his big post when he came back and specifically what he said about nutella.
Tone.

Compare ASOUE and ME Dom.

I've never seen bad Dom, though. I may be putting too much emphasis on my ability to read him.

Yeah, I don't think tone is a great indicator on Dom. I think content is. Dom angle shoots.

Dom could be good... I'm not convinced he is bad. But I do think he is very nutella compatible.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:01 pmGolden could you explain why you think I'm on a team with him? Is it just because he said he trusts me?

He's using his suspicion of me to clear you, it feels like.

I'm actually glad I threw my stuff out there. This game suddenly feels like its on.

Nutella, I could be convinced to vote for Dom ahead of voting for you. I do think that you are the kind of player who, if you're town, you will prove it within a few days. It's why I'm also less inclined to lynch LC early. I'm all too familiar with being the person lynched early when if peeps were just a little patient...

He's saying that if I'm bad you're town, kinda. Have a look at his post and see if you get my drift. It was his post that led me to throw my suspicion of you out there, because Dom expressly felt like he was trying to create a nonchalant nutella town read.

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