The Syndicate

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:17 pm Jack thought Drago > Soneji but voted Soneji because Drago wagon looked worse

Why does Jack die there? Does that relieve suspicion on Drago? He only had two scum reads and Epi is now also dead.

Bleh

I am not inclined to draw major conclusions from night kill analysis, especially in this game with ambiguously-sourced vigilante shots.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:18 pm Now would be a good time to do trustfall or gth

I'm here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:22 pm I am phone posting. Can you coordinate GTH Jay?

If we have a decent five people or more.

All: if you're here, you're required to participate in a brief exercise. New people may not know it. I won't explain it until you tell me that you're participating. If you don't tell me that you're participating, you're bad.

[VOTE: JessieKruger] aubergine

nova is clearly doing this, so we have four. Four sucks. I'll accept it if I have to. Give it a few minutes in case someone gets in here.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:30 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm [VOTE: JessieKruger] aubergine
Did you see the townie mindset that Gemma saw? lol

Assuming you're talking about this, yes my reaction was a yikes.

There are a couple of those that I'll highlight later.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:30 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:28 pm nova is clearly doing this, so we have four. Four sucks. I'll accept it if I have to. Give it a few minutes in case someone gets in here.
I'm actually not

well why the hell not

Luxurious please play more here. You're fun.

All y'all newcomers are a pleasure.

Well eff it then. Four people. Mac and nova know the drill. [mention]Luxurious[/mention], here's how it works: I am going to call out the names of players still living in this game in segments (multiple posts). Simply quote the post and give me a TOWN or MAFIA (or whatever other equivalent terms you prefer). You may not use any intermediary read like "neutral" or "null" because those are bullshit and against the law.

Are we all still here, invisible babies? Gimme an aye.

Y'all best be here. Reminder: quote the post featuring the names when you give your reads. Makes counting way easier.

DRAGOMIR
DRAGON D. LUFFY

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:40 pm DRAGOMIR
DRAGON D. LUFFY

bad
good

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] go

NOVASELINENEVER
JESSIEKRUGER

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:42 pm NOVASELINENEVER
JESSIEKRUGER

good
bad

RUNDONTWALK2
TSAIAH

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:44 pm RUNDONTWALK2
TSAIAH

bad
good

GEMMA
OWNER OF A LONELY HEART

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:46 pm GEMMA
OWNER OF A LONELY HEART

bad
good

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I will set you on fire.

MACDOUGALL
SPEEDCHUCK

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:48 pm MACDOUGALL
SPEEDCHUCK

good
good

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
M PLUS 7
LUXURIOUS

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:49 pm JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
M PLUS 7
LUXURIOUS

great butt
bad
good

I will compile our fascinating fuckin three-person chart in a little while.

I would like to see y'all other players who missed the exercise still provide your own "gun-to-head" (GTH) reads on everyone else. I'll even include them in the eventual chart with an asterisk.

Some JessieKruger stuff

Note: I'm not sure where Jessie is from. There may be a language barrier.

Spoiler: show

This seems quite awkward to me as a first effort to get involved with game-relevant dialogues. I don't know what "the link" is that Jessie is referring to regarding Gemma and Ultra (or if he meant "a" link). In any event it just looks cooked. This is similar.

Spoiler: show

This is all vague, and it strikes me as an effort to justify a vote for Dragomir rather than to explain suspicion of Dragomir.

I like the way we have opened this poll. Fire meet arse.

Apparently I closed it and didn't save.

Gonna have to be later anyway. I have eight thousand tests to grade tonight.

JessieKruger wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 1:07 am I dont like novas defense of dragomir as well.

He was desperate for owners lynch .

Please point to the post or posts you are referring to specifically, and then tell me why they make Dragomir a mafioso.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 2:07 amWtf is this bad good shit?

Gun-to-head reads. We took stances on each player without allowing anything other than "good" or "bad".

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 2:07 amAlso, the hell are the logical reasons for me being scum? I don't see any.

Stuff like this rubs me the wrong way:

Spoiler: show

You seem to be treating the game like there are obvious facts and "logic" to callback your original question here. Your post history is emotionless, and it looks like you're playing Mafia with a calculator.

Also when you had an opportunity to dig in and talk with DDL, the guy you've suspected so much, this was what came of that:

Spoiler: show

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:46 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:41 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:37 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:47 pm This reeks of chainsaw defense.
You know, isn't Ultra technically chainsaw defending DDL here when he attacks JJJ here? Especially even more as Ultra went to make his stance and vote on JJJ. I mean, he's technically defending DDL by attacking JJJ's vote on DDL calling it out as a chainsaw defense. This makes me sus of DDL even more.

novaselinenever I understand your case against JJJ but I press x to doubt that he's buddies with Ultra. The latter made his case and vote against JJJ and it's not like Ultra was in any danger of being lynched at that time for a distance attempt to make sense here, so what Ultra's fake case on JJJ is not coming off as a bus or distance imo. Also, I'm strong scum reading Owner and she also made her wishy washy case against JJJ, who again Ultra used for his fake case, so I definitely see more of a pairing between two buddies going against one townie there.
Dragomir if all you do in the game is place a picture of me on your wall and throw shit at it you are going to be lynched before I am.
Lol, ok. Didn't say anything about trying to get you lynched here, only pointed out something interested. But aight then.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:53 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:51 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:49 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:47 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:46 pm Didn't say anything about trying to get you lynched here
What?

You practically cursed me and all my descendants and threatened to pour salt onto our land.
By saying that what Ultra did made you look worse?
What about yesterday? You did nothing but attack me.

Are you backtracking on that?
I don't care what happened last DP. I'm talking about the now. I'm still sussing you for what I called you out for but I'm not planning on making an almighty push you at this moment.

I mean, what is this reassurance to DDL that you're not trying to lynch him? Eh?

I reviewed Gemma's posts with a mind for finding stances, any stances, to determine where she stands at present. What constitutes a "stance" can be debated; I omitted some posts which reflected reads going both ways at once (or something similar) and questions she asked which could imply reads but don't necessarily.

Gemma's positive reads:

Spoiler: show

Gemma's negative reads:

Spoiler: show

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:00 am Vote: jackofhearts

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:14 am i don't like his attitude

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:32 am
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:19 am Talk to me about Jack. What do you see in his attitude?
read this post and let me know if there is any actual reasoning for a scumread in it

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:56 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:15 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:56 pm Hmm... we dont have any information to work on yet, so we should probably no lynch d1.
[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine
Oof. Remember all the times DDL didn't do shit like this?

And remember the time he did shit like this to me when he was scum in Addams Family?

Bad reason to vote Speedchuck. Welcome to my scumreads.

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:33 pm vote: ultra

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:38 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:29 pm [VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL
i agree that was a bad vote dot tm

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:57 pm um

epig shaded jjj with what i thought was a really bad question, so i asked him what his jjj read was in order to tell if he was town genuinely suspecting jjj or scum just wanting to throw cheap shade. he refused to tell me what his jjj read actually was. how exactly does my questioning feel weird when it was epig who was being rude to me and trying to gaslight me?

i wasn't implying that jjj should be townread, or anything else about him. if there is a reason for jjj to be town it's probably his wild bursts of posting, but that's not very good reasoning

i loled because what else am i supposed to do when someone refuses to talk to me and eventually answered my question about someone he is apparently scumreading by saying that he doesn't have to talk about his townreads. nothing i've asked is surface level, you just aren't looking any deeper, and apparently aren't even reading the posts if that is your takeaway from our exchange? the dude is clearly more interested in his own sense of privilege than actually talking to another person as an equal (sorry if that's a bit harsh)

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:07 am i don't think his question was in good faith

Gemma wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:14 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:09 pm I have no objections to a Soneji lynch, but I moved back to MP as a placeholder.
I just voted Jack. Come back to this wagon. Competing wagons are fun.

Gemma wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 12:24 am
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:51 pm What would you do Gemma?
Shoot Jack 3 times.

As it stands, all of the people mentioned in that "negative" group are gone, which means that now, the following is literally true:

Gemma wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 7:26 pm Idk, I don't think I can vote Dragomir here over Soneji when Soneji has been super no show. I don't really think either of them are super likely to flip mafia but I have no scumreads this game so that probably doesn't mean very much

It's rare to find someone with 150 posts by EOD2 in a situation with no suspicions left to start D3. This post history is aimless to an extent that I struggle to take seriously.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:44 am Yes I do treat somethings as facts because that's how it is in my POV. What does emotionless posts have to do with anything? Explain to me what I was supposed to talk to DDL about in those interactions? Cause I wanted to correct his post on me trying to lynch him the entire game. I'm not sure what else there was to talk about cause there wasn't. Is it a common theme on this site to interact against players with 2 agendas in mind?

I'm don't know what you mean in the highlighted question.

I view emotion (or the lack thereof) to be an important indicator which can shed light on otherwise vague notions of "tone" or "vibes" which comprise guts reads et cetera. I believe that, in a vacuum, mafia members are generally less emotional in their posts than are civilians. There are exceptions as with any "tell", but I don't really care about exceptions.

What I mean regarding your exchange with DDL was that instead of voicing your concerns about him directly to him, you alleviated his concern that you wanted to lynch him. This is something that you have since loudly protested. Whatever your intention may be, I am telling you right now that it hasn't always been clear what you want to do with the player Dragon D. Luffy. "Not making a big push" (whatever that means) is meaningless to me. Clearly you are and have been pursuing his lynch -- it is probably the most pronounced aspect of your post history. This manner of technicality and your insistence about it strikes me as at best misplaced. I don't know why that is important to you from a civilian perspective.

[mention]Luxurious[/mention], I am reading your case against speedchuck and am struggling to discern a narrative or theme in what you are saying about him (if you intended for there to be one apart from "he's suspicious"). I don't fully follow your case. If you could reduce it to one or two sentences that expresses why he is bad, that would be super.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 1:43 pm I think I want to look at JaggedJimmyJay and RDW a bit. Or Jay the only one who knows how to read him?

RDW has only played one other full game here. Mac and I have both played with him a lot in years' past on RYM (MP as well to a lesser extent). I don't take much interest in such dated meta, but if you have questions the lemme have 'em.

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:54 pm One thing that concerns me about JJJ's town read of me: he knows I play exactly the same way regardless of alignment

When RDW said this he was speaking something generally agreeable (if perhaps not exactly right, because nobody is identical between alignments now matter how confident they are to the contrary). On that front, I don't think he is "off-meta" in his posting character. He could be off in his posting rate, which used to be higher. He's busy. None of this means much to me anyway. I'll offer more concrete beefs:

He left his Day 1 vote on a placeholder. Bleh

His Day 2 vote went to Dragomir. He attributed it to beefs stated by DDL and Jack. His personal investment was limited.

These things aren't awful in isolation, but an entire post history of it is underwhelming. He hasn't generated a read of his own since Day 0, and Day 0 accounts for 44% of his posts to this point. That's a considerable fall-off. I get finals week -- I've been dealing with that too. The excuse allows only limited slack though.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 2:35 pm You were complaining that I didn't dig and talk to DDL when I had the chance. I ask if it's common to have 2 agendas when interacting with players on this site because digging and to voice my opinions directly to him was not my plan and that was obvious. Me correcting DDL was the plan.

I don't really agree. How much emotion a player has isn't dictated by their alignment but their mood and how they just play the game imo.

Why should I voice my concern directly to him? I don't see a point in it when I've been voicing my concern about him all game and he definitely saw those posts.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded. I obviously want to lynch the guy, but you guys don't share the same mindset so I'll try against somebody else I think is scum.

There's some potential for culture and/or personal style clash. It would seem to me that the best way to work out a read is to talk to the player being read. I am not going to press the issue here, because everyone has a different idea of how to play the game. Do your thing and I'll be the judge.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 5:32 pm I'm here

I'm doing a trustfall. You might as well do a trustfall.

Operation: Trustfall

Why is Player X a civilian?

Dragomir

He hasn't been shy about stating strong viewpoints and taking assertive stances, nor with responding to accusations hurled his way.

Dragon D. Luffy

He appears to be quite comfortable in this game thread despite having been the subject of some strong accusations from the earliest period to now. Doesn't seem to have an agenda to pursue at a glance.

Gemma

She has posted loosely from the get-go, and has been able to maintain that sort of rapid-fire dialogue when she has been around to make posts. She stepped out quickly to claim a protection on me as soon as it was revealed that there was no kill.

JessieKruger

He missed the first game cycle in its entirety. Despite that, he has returned and made an effort to make a meaningful contribution instead of remaining a permanent slanker.

Luxurious

She has been highly active and engaged in a wide breadth of topics in the game thread, and has seemed comfortable in a role of content facilitation throughout. Her tone is good. She claimed to jail me, a target corroborated by Owner and an effect corroborated by myself.

M Plus 7

If he is a mafioso alongside a brand new guy like Ultra, he might feel a greater sense of obligation to make a difference in the game at his own home site.

MacDougall

His play is markedly different from what was just seen in another game where he was offed straightaway. He has been aggressive and fearless, and he doesn't seem concerned with the consequences to himself.

novaselinenever

He's developed a consistent style in recent civilian games, and he has essentially adhered to that in this game. He spearheaded the lynch of Ultra on Day 1 and looked authentic in the effort.

Owner of a Lonely Heart

She revealed her track of Lux to me in such a way that it looks like a genuine hunting effort, particularly in the wake of Gemma's doctor claim. She has been generally true to her civilian persona for investigating the game from a mindset uniquely her own built upon meta and night actions.

rundontwalk2

He doesn't appear to feel any urgency to generate reads (in this context, fake reads) and is happy enough to play the role of a follower while he is behind with the game.

speedchuck

My interpretation of his interactions with Ultra is positive for him, in that I have a feeling Ultra committed TMI regarding speedchuck in his accusations against me. He voted Ultra early, and he based that vote on an original suspicion (that Ultra was leaning on nova as a crutch).

Tsaiah

The dice favor the civilian faction.

I had an easy time with relatively few of those. I need our civilians to be more overt. Indeed I could flip a number of those pro-civilian arguments on their head if I so desired. Particularly, anything relating to [insert night action here] means less to me in this setup. I had to rely too much on reasoning that can be reduced to "sounds good, k".

I struggled most with RDW and Jessie in the effort to compile that.

Considering all the shit I have on my plate, it’s miraculous that I’ve given as much to this game as I have.

Now I seem to have caught speedchuck’s plague. I’ve been bedridden for like twelve hours. I’ll be here later when it’s feasible. Take it or leave it.

[VOTE: Gemma] aubergine

I just saw Gemma wants to be replaced. Gang, replacements don't grow on trees. Damn.

Among the "active" players I think Gemma looks the worst. Replacement be damned. 155 posts and no reads apart from this token set of civilians. I don't really know why those reads exist either.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:22 am According to Jay himself there is a celiling to how much work he can fake as scum, but I don't think he has hit that ceiling yet.

I'm not specifically judging him for activity though. I'm just not feeling he has his head into figuring out this game the way he does in most games I see him as a civ. Civ Jay is more... annoying, to use a negative term (sorry). He's around, changing his mind all the time and making people unconfortable. Here I barely remember what he has done, it's like Mac and Epi and Jack have been the activity commanders.

There was a game where I caught Jay letting someone else (Sloonei) be the town leader and he was bad. Jay's activity in that game was a step lower than this one, though, I think.

Being an annoying bastard demands that I am here. The constancy you expect is a product of availability, which at present just does not exist. I cannot patrol the thread all day like I often would, and that means my posture in the game has to adapt to compensate. The role I play for the civilians is dependent upon the circumstances I am faced with. Consider me less the facilitator and more the analyst.

[VOTE: rundontwalk2] aubergine

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