The Syndicate

I’m feeling torn. While I cannot call KZA town with any confidence, I also have tended to find suspicions hurled against him to be uninteresting/unconvincing. And yet, I still believe that suspicion to be predominantly town-sourced. So without overt town indicators from KZA I just find myself shrugging and accepting the existence of his wagon despite my doubts.

I strive to create a perfect Mafia utopia, where trying hard is encouraged and celebrated.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:43 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:42 am I strive to create a perfect Mafia utopia, where trying hard is encouraged and celebrated.
Trying good, posting as a measure of effort bad

I’m not sure what that means, but I probably don’t disagree.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:48 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:43 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:42 pm also jay has never in his life omgused me as town and he has as mafia sample size = like 2
"omgus" is such a dumb concept and it should disappear from Mafia vocabulary
agree
There has to be a word for "voting someone because they voted you", that's a pretty common occurrence

If you wanna make up your own word for it and insist on using that word go ahead, as long as your meaning is clear (I don't think anyone else uses "exe" for the TK/elim/chop, but I use it because I like it)

The word itself is fine. I don't really care about that. I just think it's a silly accusation the vast majority of the time. I don't care about omgus.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:44 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:31 am I’m feeling torn. While I cannot call KZA town with any confidence, I also have tended to find suspicions hurled against him to be uninteresting/unconvincing. And yet, I still believe that suspicion to be predominantly town-sourced. So without overt town indicators from KZA I just find myself shrugging and accepting the existence of his wagon despite my doubts.
How do you feel about his response to my needling on this page and the previous one?

I just reviewed it again. I find both your needling and his responses to that needling to be generally whatever. The only thought that even came to mind was that I'm not sure what you describe in 1212 is something that mafia-aligned players are likely to think of (generally speaking) as some deliberate strategy. KZA agrees with that apparently. Still, that doesn't mean much to me. It's just "that accusation is wrong" rather than "I'm a civilian". The shrugs persist.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:03 am It does not need to have been a deliberate strategy. I did not conceive of it as such when I initially wrote it, though I understand it being received that way by you and KZA. I would see it more as a knee-jerk, impulsive response to pressure by someone who has been caught off guard.

I thought you might mean it that way, and it is a preferable interpretation.

I appreciate that Michelle didn't use ketchup to bury herself in busy work. She looked over page one and did the ketchup post, but she also made her presence in the current thread and responded to current posts. Nice two-way approach to finding her footing.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:06 amsup

Hi ted. I have my vote on you out of some very vague notion of your thread posture, like my eyeballs gravitate to your name when I look at the player list with my town reads in mind. Please tell me why you are town so I can do something with my read, k thanks.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:42 am I strive to create a perfect Mafia utopia, where trying hard is encouraged and celebrated.
I appreciate the sentiment but I don't recall you acting like this in bread mafia, which is a more "Serious" format, while this being closed and 22 players, is less serious, and you also said in bread mafia that "robot jay is more often scum"

Yeah I don't fault you for that. In Bread Mafia I played what was probably my loosest game in two or three years. I hardly capitalized letters and was pretty spammy. It was a sort of liberating experience to return after a few months away. That kind of play is the exception for me rather than the rule though.

And when I am a robot, I look different even from this. Here I am a boisterous fellow with joviality and cheek. My robot body is a humorless bore. I'd like to work on that, but I never seem to roll mafia so fuggit!

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:12 am And this makes me question KZA again. I don't think it is uncommon for a caught mafier to resist their accusers by throwing up a wall of "Why would I...?" questions when they have nothing else to fall back on. KZA's response to me would fit that mold.

Yeah that's one reason I feel mostly nothing from his responses to you, or his responses to gripes in general. There's a lot of that. At the least KZA is still putting reads in the thread, so I am content to just let this scenario continue to develop. If he's mafia, great, more treasure. If not, he's setting some kind of tangible course that might eventually show itself.

Well that's a hell of a way to start a new page! Yeehaw!

Tell me about Oddmerta, ted and Esooa.

Spoiler: show

POE pool
KZA
Long Con
Dom
Marmot
Tony
JPIC
BoKnows
Al_Sama
tedxtr

~~~

Which read(s) in the spoiler am I wrong about, gang?

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:26 am Why do you townread fingersplints?

Not a bad question. Perhaps she ought to be in that "flux" tier instead, but whatever --> I think her tone is a decent reflection of the last game we played together when she was town (the racket called Mafia), and I don't think she looks like someone trying to put on any appearances. She is approaching a spammy game thread at her own pace, even if that pace is a slow one, and it looks fine to me. It's a read that I could stand to develop. More posts from fingersplints would help.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:27 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:20 am Well that's a hell of a way to start a new page! Yeehaw!

Tell me about Oddmerta, ted and Esooa.
i thought his first few posts were pretty wolfy when i was itt

afaict he has trouble finding an actual tunnel for genuine reasons and from his iso I can't glean that he's actually reading the thread and assessing stuff like a villager would

from the few games we've played, i don't expect him to talk about someone like sloonei being scum and then voting somebody random like jpic, he seems to me more like the theory conspiracy guy. doesn't seem like he's using his votes in order to gather INTEL from his scum reads (especially sloonei)

the LC read I believe was straight up stolen from spf's call on alison - and that was probably the only villagery thing that i was willing to call slightly villagery in his iso, but it's most likely nothing

i don't like to type a lot of words, hope this manages to sum it up decently

It does sum it up decently. I will decline to say more until Oddmerta responds himself.

@tutuu would you be willing to put up a comprehensive reads list? You don't have to give explanations if you don't want, but ordering the names in tiers would be super. It will help me to better understand your view of the game at present, and if you want attention that will surely get you some.

I do not personally town read Oddmerta. I am being democratic with that slot. My democracy is not eternal.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:34 am https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/searc ... sf=msgonly

here's oddmerta's ISO in the Radiohead game - where he was a villager

I don't see quite the same bravado. I don't think Sloonei being the tournament champion is a good justification for this game's bravado.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:37 am i am coming around to esooa being a villager. i'll explain my thoughts about her tomorrow if i still feel the same way

Generally same. I don't feel the need to explain at the moment, but for now the vibes are better.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:41 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:29 am
Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:26 am Why do you townread fingersplints?
Not a bad question. Perhaps she ought to be in that "flux" tier instead, but whatever --> I think her tone is a decent reflection of the last game we played together when she was town (the racket called Mafia), and I don't think she looks like someone trying to put on any appearances. She is approaching a spammy game thread at her own pace, even if that pace is a slow one, and it looks fine to me. It's a read that I could stand to develop. More posts from fingersplints would help.
Have you played with a mafia!fingersplints before?

Yes, but it was in the Before Times, in a land lost to memory, when Barack Obama was President and the Cincinnati Bengals were a playoff team.

An expanded Oddmerta read from @Alison would be neat here.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:46 am tutuu - town
falcon - town aggro
jayjay - town being very helpful and trying to cover the gaps and doing what he thinks is best and putting alot
mac - towny idgafaq toan
jpic - town reaction to getting scumread
fingersplints - towny way of articulate self expression
nook - towny openwolf joke
eso - town fight on jay
odd - town lack of elaboration on his hunting
alison - town weird tutuu read
tsp - gut town

kza - scummy elaborations
bo knows - gut scum
al sama - scummy for apologizing twice

Are you at all bothered that these two town reads are formed from negative statements?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:50 am The thing about Sloonei is not a single post he has made yet do I have to squint too hard to attribute to him in his scum meta.

I'm not sure Sloonei has ever played a game that wouldn't make you feel that way.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:50 am Nope i am open minded

Ull notice my scumread on kza is formed from a "positive" statement too

Your reads have seemed a bit static to me. Once you've made them you've kept them. You've built upon that reads list verbatim that first came into existence some time yesterday I think. Why do you think this has been the case, or do you think it hasn't been the case?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:52 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:51 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:50 am The thing about Sloonei is not a single post he has made yet do I have to squint too hard to attribute to him in his scum meta.
I'm not sure Sloonei has ever played a game that wouldn't make you feel that way.
I think you misread me. Sloonei routinely is capable of making posts as either alignment that make me go "shit that's so townie it can't be scum" and usually I tinfoil him anyway.

Here I'm not even needing to tinfoil.

You buy into his propaganda of me scumreading him in every game too much Jay. I scumread everyone in every game. When I firm up reads I have a good history of catching or clearing him.

I'll let you dialogue with Sloonei.

@KZA would you be willing to provide a full reads list, with or without explanations?

I play one damned Mafia game, and here I am again awake at 4am.

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:02 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:56 am @KZA would you be willing to provide a full reads list, with or without explanations?
yes but I'm in bed so when I wake up

I would appreciate it.

[VOTE: AL_sama] aubergine

Just seems like a decent candidate when I stare at my POE. Their reads on tutuu and Oddmerta look a bit cooked.

I think Alison can resolve herself if we allow her to, whether by her role or otherwise. If she is mafia, I don't think she is in a winning position right now. So I am not terribly bothered at the moment.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:14 am You aren't even being rational so I am going to assume you are quite drunk right now.

I don't care about any proposed strategy beyond "eliminate the most likely mafioso every day until town wins". Picking and choosing suspects based upon thread posture rather than degree of suspicion is not a business I care to engage in with rare exception. Tony may end up being that player today. He's in my POE too. We'll see how the phase develops.

And I have seven best civilian awards across three websites, so

.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:15 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:13 am I think Alison can resolve herself if we allow her to, whether by her role or otherwise. If she is mafia, I don't think she is in a winning position right now. So I am not terribly bothered at the moment.
I think she is just town though. Her reads have been enemy creating, not friend making and salient. No mafia agenda that I perceive. Only agenda to solve and to get her reads out.

Generally I agree.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:18 am Why does BoKnows, known passive participant in forum mafia, choose a random Jay vote on TSP to question? Does it make TSP town or his mafia teammate? One things for sure is it makes Bo mafia lol.

Valid question. I'll let Bo answer it before I expand.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:19 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:14 am You aren't even being rational so I am going to assume you are quite drunk right now.
I don't care about any proposed strategy beyond "eliminate the most likely mafioso every day until town wins". Picking and choosing suspects based upon thread posture rather than degree of suspicion is not a business I care to engage in with rare exception. Tony may end up being that player today. He's in my POE too. We'll see how the phase develops.

And I have seven best civilian awards across three websites, so .
Ted your fly is undone.

*ties a knot*

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 am Town ted: God damn it Mac you are obvious town can you hurry up and read me town so we can fucking dominate together

I think we're well on our way. Just do what you do and synergize it with what I do and we'll be fine.

The frustrating thing about getting better at Mafia in a competitive environment is that everyone else is also getting better at the same time. It's like level scaling in a bad video game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:30 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:30 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 am Town ted: God damn it Mac you are obvious town can you hurry up and read me town so we can fucking dominate together
I think we're well on our way. Just do what you do and synergize it with what I do and we'll be fine.
I am directing this at Ted why are you replying? Are you a Ted sock?

You responded to my post about my best civilian awards and then said the thing about "I'm the best and have all the secrets". I thought you were talking to me and calling me Ted for some MacDougall reason analogous to me calling you Doug.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:37 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:34 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:33 am Yeah I mean I thought you were Ted so it's me who's having a stroke not you.
are you alright fella
actually no I have had the most stressful day and here I am now playing mafia at the end of it which is one of my primary vices and a strong precursor to heavy drinking

maybe it's a good day for fishin

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:39 am It's dark and pouring rain but fishing would do me good no doubt about it.

Weak, Australia. Do you normally like to fish around the ocean coast, or is there a smaller body of water near you?

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:43 am what is happening

this is a bookmark post since I'll probably have to read some pages when I wake up

I think this is a nice place to take one of those brief hunting breathers that benefitted town in Bread Mafia, so I am chilling out and making some off-topic posts in white text.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:44 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:39 am It's dark and pouring rain but fishing would do me good no doubt about it.
Weak, Australia. Do you normally like to fish around the ocean coast, or is there a smaller body of water near you?
Oh I am a fisher of many bodies of water. My latest endeavours have been primarily beach fishing. My boss made me a beach fishing rod for Christmas and it's long as fuck. Like 12 feet maybe or more.

I do enjoy a fish in a river, or a fish in a boat, or even a deep sea fish. Never done an ice fish though. I hear the Ice Fishing is pretty good in Minnesota.

I've very little experience with fishing. I suspect I would most enjoy beach fishing, since it'd likely come with a decent breeze and just feel generally relaxed in a way I'm not sure I'd get from a river or lake.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:47 am I feel like you have the right temperament for fly fishing, jay

Wikipedia suggests this involves no worms so that’s a nice start

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:55 am Odd, you honestly think that scum like to vote together in a situation like this?

Why would that be a thing? What logic are you supposedly employing here? This is suspicious.

Why wouldn't mafia vote together in a situation like this? What kind of situation is this?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:30 am If you guys wanna see 2 beautiful players talking about themselves and how great they are, please look no further than Mac & JJJ.

They are strikingly handsome, watching their banter is like staring at an Adonis smothered hot, steaming fabulous.

Did y'all see how Mac and I added our own banners for awards we won on RYM five years ago or more? We're well-adjusted human beings.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.

I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.

Howdy splints, would you be willing to throw together a reads list for everyone, or at least name a top 3-5 town and top 3-5 mafia? It would help to frame your current view of business.

My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
I'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?

The notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.

To be fair I tend to think wagon formations and "wagonomics" and those sorts of things are not nearly as useful as they'd need to be to justify how often they are assessed. I just don't care much about that kind of stuff.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:41 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:39 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
I'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?
The notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.
I'm not dismissing that. You asked me for a reason why two mafia might want to NOT vote the same person. I came up with one and told you that the point isn't relevant.

I'm referring to your initial response to Oddmerta's gripe. Whatever though, I don't view this dialogue as being especially informative.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:44 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 am
fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.

I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.
Howdy splints, would you be willing to throw together a reads list for everyone, or at least name a top 3-5 town and top 3-5 mafia? It would help to frame your current view of business.
I still got lots of pages to catch up on, but I’ll definitely try to get to it today because I think I probably have a lot of neutrals still, so looking at the list might help me.

I’m very slow today. It was a horrible night for me and today has been blah

Take your time, we have 31 hours!

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:48 am Would you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.

My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.

I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.

I tend to see that as confirmation bias. I think confirmation bias would be the story of Oddmerta's entire post history if he is a civilian.

@Oddmerta should answer this for himself anyway.

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