The Syndicate

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:25 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:07 pm Elohcin, could you summarize your gripes with nutella in just a sentence or two?
I'm sure my iso isn't too long.

Very well. How do nutella's most recent posts today while you've been around feel to you?

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:27 pm Jay, what is the reason you think Mac hasn't given a definitive read on you? I'm trying to see how that makes him potentially bad.

lots of linki

He is typically hyper-conscious of me and what I am doing because of how he perceives the sway I hold over threads and the influence I wield. I understand that. In this game I don't get any impression that he even cares what my alignment is.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:28 pm I don't see what y'all see on Mac. At least not anymore.

Feels to me like it revolves mostly about how he's handling you (looking at you Dunya and Jay) rather than his overall play.

What is to like?

My faith in the civilianhood of juliets has waned some. She seems to be struggling to keep up to a degree which hasn't been typical in her recent civilian games to my memory.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:33 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:30 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:28 pm I don't see what y'all see on Mac. At least not anymore.

Feels to me like it revolves mostly about how he's handling you (looking at you Dunya and Jay) rather than his overall play.
What is to like?
I liked his early work today. Beside his handling of you, what do you have against him?

He seems like a player who is trying to put people in his pocket. That applies to DDL, myself (by way of parroting my nutella gripes), and dunya. I don't believe his civilian reads appear genuine. What was it about his early work that you liked? What did he do?

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:34 pm linki - Jay where do you see me struggling to keep up? I just got back from the gym if it's some recent thing.

It's right now. You're a little slow to the posting trigger. If you just got home then do your thing, and I'll see how it goes.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:34 pm Everyone: I could lynch Nutella and will vote for her
Also everyone: I could lynch Juliets but I won’t.

Everyone: I'm doing a thing that I said
Jack: I'm doing a thing that I said
Also Jack: Wait, why aren't you also doing the thing that I said?

Estimated 372% chance of reywaS replacement

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:42 pm What isn't genuine about his civilian reads? The DDL one was something prompted from their interactions, and felt like natural conversation especially considering its context (The Firefly game).

He wrote a novella to explain why he read DDL as a civilian. I don't believe that was necessary, and I don't believe that's how MacDougall operates. He was similar in his handling of dunya. He technically called me light green, but I haven't the faintest idea why -- his read on me doesn't exist. He said he liked juliets because she is "more involved than usual" (no she isn't?). He loved Kites for his big reads post, which is such an easy thing to say.

Bleh.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:48 pm I wouldn't lynch someone for being a bit behind at times. That can be so skewed by RL circumstances and passion level, like, c'min.

Nicer. Than. I.

The people who played on Bulbagarden are spooked.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:54 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:06 pm I wanna vote Luna but I’m secretly a huge softy and feel bad about her getting lynched a lot D1.
This makes me cringe. It reads like you know I'm town, and feel bad joining in on the lynch.

I feel differently about Jack, but I also kind of feel your cringe.

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:04 pm Ok here's what I see. I initially liked his posts about DDL and I really liked his reads wall (even tho I didn't agree with everything) because he was explaining why he had the reads he did. Looking back over it though what strikes me is he never does this. He usually just throws out reads with no backup whatsoever and when people question him he ignores it or responds negatively. But is this indicative of a bad Mac or just a style change? I need to look at a bad Mac game, anyone know a recent one?

He suggested a style change when he explained his civilian read on DDL:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:44 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:38 am I feel some of the people townreading me are bad. At least one of them

Feels like one of those games where I manage to post in a very obvious civ way which convinces people, but baddies already noticed that and are blending in.

I might get NKd soon.
I feel like I've been able to civ read you better lately. Things that I used to incorrectly read you as Mafia for I now see as civ traits. Tbh it was mostly my cynicism because I used to read you bad for having strong insights that I chalked up to TMI but I've come to realise that we sort of see the game similarly. The way that I have been handling our interactions in games lately is a lot of the reason I feel my civilian game has improved. That and taking a back seat more. I realised that even though I have strong insight into scum, that brute forcing my opinions into the thread was counterintuitive to civilian wins and started playing more cerebrally. Less plaudits but stronger results. Only took me 8 years.

I haven't really noticed this shift in previous games. I dunno if anyone else feels otherwise who has played more games than I have lately.

Matahari wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:05 pm I am having a hard time catching up. Still have two pages to read but when I’m done with those, it will be four or six. So I’m stopping at this point, and I’ll going to try to make sense of something.
The last game I was in, someone got to use an ability on day 0. That made me think that maybe Nutella had been forced to quote lyrics. Then Jay roleclaims about being able to put a posting curse on someone that stops short of insanification. Wen day 0 is up, Nutella isn’t insulting Jay anymore, and everything is peachy keen. That just pings the crap out of me. Ok. I’m back to reading.

I hope I get time to go back and see who suddenly showed up after Epig post about 24 hours.

I will just state in clear terms: I did not cause nutella to post in lyrics. I don't believe Day 0 actions existed in this game anyway.

The reason I ask is this:

When there is a highly active Day 1, and a variety of reads/wagons/initiatives are revolving around the discussion without a good inspiration for confidence (I think we're close to that now), lynching a less-active player is usually a good idea. As it stands my strongest suspicion is on MacDougall. I acknowledge that it isn't rock solid shite, but I haven't seen a single rock solid case in this thread yet. Refer to the last 25% of the video in my signature for more information.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:28 pm I am here! May not be the most active for the next couple days, but I'll see what I can do.

leetic did at least project inactivity for the next couple days, which can generously be extended to the present. I'd still expect more than one post, but I haven't seen him around so

Neverwhere wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:54 am Happy Easter! Looking forward to playing with you all.

Neverwhere wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:03 am It seems I am unable to post in the poll.

Neverwhere's first two posts are a bit stiff.

Neverwhere wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:30 am Sorry, starting a game Easter weekend was never going to go well for me. I've not been home for like 2 days. Finally got time to catch up and theres 15 pages D: I got through four before realising I was going to be late for physio. I'll be back this afternoon to try and contribute/catch up properly. Apologies all!

I can't blame 'em for struggling to keep up. Arriving to a game like this after it has already exploded is a daunting thing. The remorse at least looks authentic, though I can't say that's something alignment-specific.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:23 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:18 pm The reason I ask is this:

When there is a highly active Day 1, and a variety of reads/wagons/initiatives are revolving around the discussion without a good inspiration for confidence (I think we're close to that now), lynching a less-active player is usually a good idea. As it stands my strongest suspicion is on MacDougall. I acknowledge that it isn't rock solid shite, but I haven't seen a single rock solid case in this thread yet. Refer to the last 25% of the video in my signature for more information.
Are you classifying Mac as less active?

No. He's my choice right now among active participants.

nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:44 am Hello friends. Four pages since yesterday evening, eh? Geez.

Donald it is!

nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:45 am Errr, or I would vote Donald, but I seem to be having the same trouble as others on page 1 - I can't vote! Alas.

nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:11 pm Shit, I forgot I was playing! It's been too long.

I won't catch up now because I need to leave for trivia in like 10-20 minutes.

Who's suspicious, eh?

niju's posts are at the opposite end of the stiffness spectrum. Three exclamation marks. They're almost gratuitously loose.

I may struggle to be involved during the final 40 minutes of the day. I'll be in class and almost certainly unable to tinker around on my computer/type a bunch of stuff.

[VOTE: Neverwhere] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:44 am I like juliets. I feel like she is involved more so than usual. I am not entirely sure why that would be but I don't think it is in a bad way and I don't really want to discourage it. I'd give her a light green skittle (if I had skittles to give).

Someone tell me this is not a fake read.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:48 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:46 pm I understand. Either I’m right or you misread my post.

If you’re scum, Juliets is scum. If you’re town, you really suspect Juliets too and maybe she’s scum.
Right so either way we lynch juliets
I like to call this “strategy.”

Tell me why juliets is bad without saying anything about Spacedaisy.

Kites wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:50 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:02 pm Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.
eeny meeny miny moe. i don’t think comparing who used the most exclamation marks or whatever is gonna help there

We have to use the material in front of us, my dude.

I'll be clear:

I think the proposed link between Spacedaisy and juliets is a terrible reason to lynch juliets. If that's all there is, then it's the exact opposite of what I consider to be sound Day 1 decision making.

So with that in mind, I really want to hear from anyone what else makes juliets a problem. I can state very vague concerns if I squeeze my brain hard enough. Someone give me something real.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:53 pm She poisoned the well by accusing me of a fake accusation against her just like in VH.

I had not yet accused her of doing anything.

So many technicalities and no sense. You've mentioned her as a candidate to be lynched 80 times. That is basically the same thing as [insert accusation here].

I don't understand you, Jackofhearts2005.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:59 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:55 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:53 pm She poisoned the well by accusing me of a fake accusation against her just like in VH.

I had not yet accused her of doing anything.
So many technicalities and no sense. You've mentioned her as a candidate to be lynched 80 times. That is basically the same thing as [insert accusation here].

I don't understand you, Jackofhearts2005.
It’s cause I mumble sometimes.

Some people have a tendency to see the trees instead of the forest. I think you have the tendency to see a single leaf.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:46 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:44 am I like juliets. I feel like she is involved more so than usual. I am not entirely sure why that would be but I don't think it is in a bad way and I don't really want to discourage it. I'd give her a light green skittle (if I had skittles to give).
Someone tell me this is not a fake read.

Is what MacDougall said about juliets at all accurate, or did he make up some b/s to justify calling her good?

[mention]juliets[/mention]

I'd like to know how you feel about Jack, nutella, and Spacedaisy.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:03 pm Why is Never a better lynch?

As I see it, the case is no weaker than the one against juliets. I am serious. Then consider how we may project the future of the game given each permutation:

1) civilian Neverwhere
2) mafia Neverwhere
3) civilian juliets
4) mafia juliets

#3 would be a significant loss. Eliminating #1 or #2 would have similar impacts upon the future thread pace and climate apart from the obvious difference in alignment. #4 would be lovely to eliminate if the case is there.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:05 pm Lynching a low-poster means ignoring all the good discussion we've had in the thread so far and going back to the day 0 game of analyzing how stiff or natural each person's check-in post felt. I don't really like that, and think we can do better.

What if the good discussion doesn't direct us to a good result? This happens all the time. I don't want to lynch nutella. I am waiting for someone to give me a good reason to lynch juliets. I am less inclined to lynch you than I was two hours ago. Here we stand. I refuse to grant immunity to people with fewer posts merely because it feels lame.

juliets I need you to talk with me. I am very nearly out of time, and I will have no control over what happens in here after class starts.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:09 pm What Never case? Or is that your point?

I could make a vague, shitty case on Neverwhere.

I see a vague, shitty case on juliets.

Either way I don't even think nutella should be a wagon at present. Don't ask me why, or expect a vague answer.

juliets is forcing me to play defense for her, and I hate that. She can be a wagon alongside a preferred low-poster.

Everyone should also be mindful that this is a claim-friendly game. That doesn't mean you need to blab for no reason, but it does mean that you should keep the option in your tool belt. I would hate to see a needless lynch that could be prevented by a sound claim.

The concern would be the recent advent of soup-killing. Epi's rules do not mention such a thing (doesn't mean it doesn't exist), but it's also never something he has done before. Who knows.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:15 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:13 pm Either way I don't even think nutella should be a wagon at present. Don't ask me why, or expect a vague answer.

juliets is forcing me to play defense for her, and I hate that. She can be a wagon alongside a preferred low-poster.
Nobody with their vote on me besides juliets is around to move their vote so would you be so kind as to vote for juliets for now to help me out

We can get six votes on anyone.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:16 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:09 pm juliets I need you to talk with me. I am very nearly out of time, and I will have no control over what happens in here after class starts.
Jay sorry I was doing something else. I think Daisy's reason for voting me is shit but I think it's because she has not played with me as much recently. I think Jack's theory about Daisy is shit because it's clear as day she wan't defending me. I think Daisy is town, I think Jack is bad. I've forgotten who the other person is you asked for my read on.

linki

nutella. They're the three who've voted for you.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:18 pm Ok I'm tired of all this. I am basically a stump. If I get killed in the night by the mafia I can't vote anymore but I can continue to post. If I'm lynched I'm dead.

This at least meshes with the "seems harmful; under specific circumstances can be somewhat helpful" nature of my own role.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:18 pm have a couple of folks that I think are Civ, so I won't vote for them.

I'd love to know their names.

With that claim in existence I will re-stress that care should be taken. Epi's first rule does issue a warning to those who may claim. It could just be his typical ominous style, it could be a soup kill, or it could be that he designed roles that don't clear people by virtue of being claimed (evidence exists for this one).

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Matahari wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:24 pm I’m placing my vote on Nutella for now, but I may switch to Luna in a few. I just didn’t want to miss the vote while I doublecheck stuff.

I think you should vote Mac.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:25 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:15 pm The concern would be the recent advent of soup-killing. Epi's rules do not mention such a thing (doesn't mean it doesn't exist), but it's also never something he has done before. Who knows.
Soup-killing really only works in an open setup where the mafia/town have a list of roles to look at.

In a closed setup, Town can't fake claim to cover for each other and Mafia have shakily-defined terms to soupkill on. "Oh, you tried to soupkill Leetic as the cop, but he's actually an even-night cop. Too bad."

You also kinda have to build the roles around it. AND it only works with very limited role reveals, or mafia can just POE and kill everyone.

Soupkilling is not just another technique in the garage of mafia mechanics. It's almost another type of game, usually called 'Hunt', as seen in Tinyhunt, Credithunt, and Dersehunt.

In other words, we can practically guarantee that soupkilling is not in this game, at least not in any normal form.

Good!

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:25 pm I have not felt Mac was bad. Like at all. I’d be more inclined to vote nutella, but I don’t see good reason for that either except for jumping on nova’s joke which I didn’t think she was serious about originally.

Talk to me about it:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:46 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:42 pm What isn't genuine about his civilian reads? The DDL one was something prompted from their interactions, and felt like natural conversation especially considering its context (The Firefly game).
He wrote a novella to explain why he read DDL as a civilian. I don't believe that was necessary, and I don't believe that's how MacDougall operates. He was similar in his handling of dunya. He technically called me light green, but I haven't the faintest idea why -- his read on me doesn't exist. He said he liked juliets because she is "more involved than usual" (no she isn't?). He loved Kites for his big reads post, which is such an easy thing to say.

Bleh.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:31 pm You are poking at one post, but I look at all is posts and I see someone who seems to actually be trying to get reads on people. I don’t think looking at that one post determines a person entirely. I was more moved slightly by your case that he is afraid of you. But this is Mac, when has Mac ever seemed afraid of anything? He dgaf.

I am talking about numerous posts. Each of those points I made referred to something different.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:30 pm Hey my color is back.

Linki: Why do we believe Juliets’s claim?

Because her personality exists.

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:27 pm Well, you are dead wrong. You may think I am off but I'm not. I will claim if I have to because it will be very little lost for the civs and very little gain for the mafia if they kill me.

She projected this, and I think it's authentic -- particularly her lack of enthusiasm with the role.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:36 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:32 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:30 pm Hey my color is back.

Linki: Why do we believe Juliets’s claim?
Because her personality exists.
What does that have to do with her claim?

If you (meaning anyone) just townread Juliets, okay. But all the “this is a good claim” is setting off my warning bells. It’s a claim I’ve never seen and a claim that never needs to be proven because mafia don’t shoot a night stump or whatever. It doesn’t make me suspect her more but why would it make anyone suspect her less?

I think certain people are less likely than others to make up claims period, and I also think this would make a silly fake.

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