The Syndicate

Initially this, juliets. Luna discarded all three men in this post without giving a clear read.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:11 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:58 am

reywaS wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:41 am Nutella didn't say No U and I know she knows the saying SMH
Lunalee is bad because she said the party could begin while not being the last person to check in. SMH

JJJ is good because he also thinks these two boobs (see what I did there) are bad
Mac is good for reason i gave above.

Hi Rey. It's okay, you don't have to like me. I have plenty of friends.
Careful trusting Mac and Jay just because they agree with your reads. That's actually a terrible reason to trust someone.

Do you suspect rey for this? Do you suspect either Mac or myself? What is this?

My last few posts expand to more recent gripes. Accusing someone of having baseless reads on Day 0 is like accusing cows of mooing. Asking “why” one might hurl them out baselessly is hard to believe. I do it constantly and for reasons I have shared in 90 games.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:17 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:57 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:46 pmI don't like your empty day 0 reads. They seem baseless, and just throw suspicion on random people. Why?

Hol' up, hol' up.

Why?

Why?

How many games have we played together at this point?

Okay, but that aside, why are you so adamant that your day 0 reads are correct? You've only voted Indiglo and myself today. Do you not have any other suspects?

I’m not adamant about anything. I don’t even remember some of my Day 0 reads. Matahari is a suspect. Why is your vote on Mongoose?

[mention]Mongoose[/mention], why Luna?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:24 pm Jay and Mongoose are teammates

I do understand none of the case save for her first post.

Or whichever one was the explanation salad.

I am stuck in a meeting after class. Give me a brief bulleted argument against Mongoose or something, please.

[mention]Elohcin[/mention], I do feel bad for lynching people the people I named. Feeling bad never stopped me before.

[mention]Mongoose[/mention] who is bad? Gimme two names. Who is good? Gimme two names?

My advisor is literally talking next to me; I will try my best to be present over the next 18 minutes.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine because her explanation for voting Luna seemed quite exaggerated.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:44 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:42 pm @Mongoose who is bad? Gimme two names. Who is good? Gimme two names?

My advisor is literally talking next to me; I will try my best to be present over the next 18 minutes.

We never really excavated into Mac's slip (or was it?) Why didn't we? Whether or not that was a slip, it's super weird to me that something so succulent just slipped on by last passing by a traffic sign.

I haven't seen this and it still sounds fake. Vote mongoose

That's a bummer, dude.

Please play again soon, [mention]Mongoose[/mention]. You're cool and fun and we suck.

Lunalee and nutella are civilians for being silly enough to think I'm bad.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:37 pm Matahari town

Mac is a civilian, because this is a mindmeld coming immediately after a Matahari post that I think looks super.

juliets is a civilian because she seems productively inquisitive in her trademark manner.

This is the Matahari post that I thought looked authentic:

Matahari wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:29 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:49 pm This has that "I'm accusing people who have no names" vibe:

Matahari wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:04 am So, with that thought covered, I’ll now voice an opinion, although it is apt to change. I frequently find people who are aggressive on day zero and day one, to be bad. At this early point in the game, I’m looking at the aggressive people.

Just for the record, by aggressive, I don’t mean people who post too much. I mean people who try to build serious cases on someone on day one. They passively-aggressively start building a case against someone in the hopes of a surviving day one lynch. Even civs do this, but mafia do it more deviously. This is what I’m looking for.

I am also trying to make connections, including reverse connections. To be even more UNclear, I see connections between Nutella and Lunalee, and possibly Mongoose. Reverse connections would be you, Rey, or anyone who hasn’t connected with the ones connected. This is how my brain works in a game, although I may not always come up with the right answer.

rey doesn't seem concerned with appearances and is just doing his thing. It's a small point, but it's nice.

I see no reasons to call Spacedaisy a civilian.
I see no reasons to call Owner a civilian.
I see no reasons to call indiglo a civilian.
Elohcin's tone seems good, though I'm struggling to identify a single post that shouts BAM, CIVILIAN.

Okay so this is my only game now. I POE'd down to four, so somebody tell me why I'm stupid or why I'm brilliant. Argue with me. Argue with each other. Fight and bicker. Let's go.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:53 pm1. What is there to argue?
-We had different opinions. Does that lead itself to create an argument? Maybe?

I ought to! Fight!

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:53 pm2. Why these 4 specifically? What has each other player done to earn your trust?

I streamed-of-consciousness those reads in a few near-consecutive posts starting here.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:53 pm3. Are you generally wrong in your reads? Or is that something you tend to strive to get better at?

Sometimes my reads are trash and sometimes my reads are gold. I like to think I push myself a bit closer to the latter.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:53 pm4. Who should argue with each other and why?

Anyone with suspicions, whether one-way or two-way. Anyone who disagrees on any assertion made in this thread. Argument breeds a thread that can be judged.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:53 pm5. Bonus Question: On a scale of Dizzy to M Plus 7, how would you rate yourself?

nutella said almost exactly the arrogant snarky thing I wanted to say before I even had to.

Now that I've answered your questions, Owner, could you please tell me how you hope to progress your effort to solve the game (both with these questions and in general)?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:11 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:15 pm Lunalee and nutella are civilians for being silly enough to think I'm bad.

I guess I'm skeptical to think that they think you are good most of the time or am I wrong?

nutella doesn't think anything about anyone most of the time. Any read she states is liable to change in a millisecond.

I think their suspicion of me looks authentic in this game. This is the only game I'm concerned with when I make this read. Luna particularly moved her vote to me and endangered herself in the process. That's suggestive of a genuine suspicion. nutella isn't a slam dunk, but I like the cut of her jib as they say. I understand why she suspected me and kind of expected it frankly.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:15 pmYou technically didn't answer the last one. M Plus 7 and I have similar personalities, and Dizzy and I have a history. If you are the scale, what does that make them?

I honestly don't understand the scale you designed there; I thought you were making a joke. I probably have more in common with M Plus 7 as a player than I do with Dizzy, if that's your meaning.

Do your thing and I'll be the judge.

werd

I feel oddly comfortable with the state of this game. It's a bummer to lose Mongoose, but I think people kinda shined in the process. I would be prudent to add reywaS to my POE to make it 5-deep; I can't provide a terribly meaningful case for him as a civilian. I feel pretty peachy about everyone outside this set though:

reywaS
indiglo
Owner
Spacedaisy
Elohcin

reywaS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:02 am you guys are ruthless. I have no idea what happened in the final 12 hours of day 1, but Mongoose? Really? I will be reading back through what I missed and making a very detailed hit list on the meanies that lynched her on day 1 of her first game back.

You said exactly one thing about Mongoose, and it was irrelevant to the game:

reywaS wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:19 pm at least you got the right member of outkast right....

mongoose is civ now

Unless you were asserting that she was a civilian for reasons other than Outkast?

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:03 amMac because I didn't see a reason he glommed onto Mongoose and stayed there.

Sure. [mention]MacDougall[/mention], please summarize the atrocities of Mongoose as you perceived them.

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:05 pmI should be happy to move my vote, as my ping has now been quieted. Now to find a new votee in the next 10 minutes.

Your vote didn't move, so please talk about that.

Matahari wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:53 pmI’m not sure I get all the vouching going on in the game. Openly pleading for teammates used to be considered as targeting. Is this the new normal in mafia, or a bold fake out?

*cracks knuckles*

Ah yes, allow me to explain.

You see, there was a time, way back in years where dinosaurs roamed the Earth and Mafia players complained about rainbow lists, when it was unusual for players to broadcast their civilian reads loudly in a game thread. It was understandable too, because in those days it was typical for only living players to be allowed to win a game (sometimes that rule only applied to civilians!). With that in mind, players were less eager to vouch for one another, as it would be perceived as "painting a target" for the mafia team(s) to shoot at, thus robbing those players of their chance to win the game.

Now though we find ourselves in another era, an era of great change and revolution. Now it is typical for all members of a winning faction to be granted a victory, whether dead or alive. As such, there is no need for concern about who gets shot! So we can shout to the sky: This player looks like a civilian to me! Do you hear me, sky?! A civilian I tell you! Oh, but what is the benefit?

I am sure you know the term "process of elimination" from various walks of life. Consider its application to Mafia. What I like to do most (and many others as well these days), is to try to find the civilians in the crowd instead of finding the mafia (or at least to focus on the civilians more). I believe they are easier to identify than the mafia are, so it makes perfect sense. Guess what happens if you identify enough of them?

Nobody is left except the baddies. You don't even have to "suspect" them, or to know why they've gone wrong; you could read their posts and just shrug. But if everyone else is a civilian and they're just shrugs, they must be bad. Ya got me? Do ya got me?

So y'all gimme yer reads! Civilians, mafia, anything. I bet there's an indy in here too.

I'm gone much of the night. They killed an active contributor. Fill the void. Do things.

Wow, gang.

Bad.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:47 am I guess I want to look at nutella and Lunalee or maybe the Mongoose vote. Multiple people were quick to defend Luna. She did eventually move her vote, but was everyone else reading her off meta or what?

When Luna moved her vote to me, it placed her in greater danger of being lynched (she was high in the tally alongside Mongoose). I thought that was a good look. Do you disagree?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:52 am So I guess I'm wondering why did Mac, Jay, indigo, and daisy vote for Mongoose over the others?

My vote was rather uninformed, I grant. I was barely in the thread while meeting with my advisor trying to sneak in glimpses. When Mongoose tried to promote that "slip" thing with Mac around EOD, I thought it looked like b/s and threw in my vote.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:58 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:49 am

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:47 am I guess I want to look at nutella and Lunalee or maybe the Mongoose vote. Multiple people were quick to defend Luna. She did eventually move her vote, but was everyone else reading her off meta or what?

When Luna moved her vote to me, it placed her in greater danger of being lynched (she was high in the tally alongside Mongoose). I thought that was a good look. Do you disagree?

It seemed like votes quickly went to or stayed on Mongoose near the end of the phase, but I'm not positive that this was all at once. I also didn't see when Luna switched her vote, but she also didn't mislynch Mongoose.

But generally, when multiple people defend you, you aren't at as much risk of getting lynched.

Does anyone involved in those incidents look particularly bad or good to you now?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:06 amI guess the other thing is that Luna didn't change her vote until after I had voted for her. My reasoning for that was it seemed as she wasn't totally sure that her vote on Mongoose was such a good idea, but she was still voting there anyways.

What exactly is a civilian supposed to do in that situation, where he or she feels a desire to move a vote but isn't yet certain where to put it?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:58 pm I spent all afternoon writing. So... I could vote for Jay or Mac and tie it up with Mongoose or I can seal it on Mongoose. I don’t think Jay is bad, I’m not decided yet on Mac. I think I’ll toss. Y vote on Mongoose, I feel like she is more likely bad than the other two options close to her.

This post makes me say "yikes" every time I pass over it.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 amAre you talking about the Mongoose vote or nutella quickly coming to Luna's aid?

Both of those, and any other incidents that may inform you about other players. I am unclear on what you think of most players.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 amWith the Mongoose vote, I'm generally more suspicious of the later votes. Unless the earlier voters are strong players, who tend to push people a lot as scum, but with this crowd, I'm flying without meta.

Also, are the votes actually in order has this site's polling mixed it up?

I have the votes at Mac then Jay then indigo then daisy was that the correct order or did it get mixed up?

The poll order isn't the same as the chronological order. I believe the Mongoose votes went in this order: indiglo ==> Mac ==> JJJ ==> Spacedaisy

What does this mean to you?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 amNutella coming to Luna's aid; she seemed really certain about Luna's alignment. Does Nutella generally read Luna well? Or would she defend a partner like that...hmm that might be a stretch or would be unwise. It could be a pocket for credit maybe.

I have no idea how well nutella usually reads Luna. I'm not sure anyone could answer that other than nutella herself, if even her. Do you think it's a pocket job or no?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 amThen the world could be Nutella and Matahari? As Matahari indirectly stayed away from the main wagons and voted for me.

Are you saying those two are connected, or separately people that you suspect?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:24 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:11 am

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:06 amI guess the other thing is that Luna didn't change her vote until after I had voted for her. My reasoning for that was it seemed as she wasn't totally sure that her vote on Mongoose was such a good idea, but she was still voting there anyways.

What exactly is a civilian supposed to do in that situation, where he or she feels a desire to move a vote but isn't yet certain where to put it?

Generally, you keep reading and reevaluating, or you would vote in your poe. But if you are questioning if the vote is a right one, I guess I feel like you would just unvote for the time being. But this is also a time-sensitive question, as it was getting closer and closer to the end of the phase.

She could have potentially pressure voted someone there, but it is also understandable not to do so when you aren't sure how much you'll be around.

There is no "unvote" in the poll. The picture you're painting here is hard to buy. Luna wasn't convinced of her vote on Mongoose, so she had to move it or cancel it -- as if the votes placed on Day 1 need to reflect a strong degree of confidence or certainty. None of the civilians could have possibly been very certain of their votes at that point. The standard you are setting there is unreasonable to the point that it looks fake.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:39 am7. nutella - mainly just a bit irked at how quick she was to defend Luna as if she was absolutely certain of her alignment
8. Lunalee - could be town because of nutella/mac or could be teamed
10. Matahari - null or could be with nutella/Luna
12. MacDougall could be with nutella/Luna

You've linked these four together across various dynamics. Please describe why they'd make sensible teammates in the combinations you have suggested.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:43 am Well, that's the other thing, nutella was positive on Luna's alignment, but it's day 1.

Have a red hot go at that, [mention]nutella[/mention].

Go ahead and sleep Owner. You've given everyone plenty of content to assess.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:03 am I was never positive on Luna's alignment. I was very convinced that she was not a good option for a day 1 lynch, but never positive. I tried to sway the lynch off of her because it was stupid and there were better options on the table -- unfortunately Mongoose wasn't the right choice either, but that whole EOD was, as our host put it, a fustercluck.

Fight me or agree with me or something:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:54 pm I feel oddly comfortable with the state of this game. It's a bummer to lose Mongoose, but I think people kinda shined in the process. I would be prudent to add reywaS to my POE to make it 5-deep; I can't provide a terribly meaningful case for him as a civilian. I feel pretty peachy about everyone outside this set though:

reywaS
indiglo
Owner
Spacedaisy
Elohcin

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:06 amor mata

Jay wants to hear about it.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:07 am Replace owner with mata and we're golden.

I mean, not THAT Golden, but we can come close

Why am I no longer evil incarnate?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:12 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:06 am

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:06 amor mata

Jay wants to hear about it.

She has a tone that comes across as stilted/overly analytical and removed or something, idk, look back at my exchange with her during like-the-way-you-think-gate. I haven't played with her in a while and maybe it's just her personality/style but most of her posts rubbed me the wrong way and don't read like genuine organic thoughts.

Understood. To some extent I agree with your general perception of her diction. I quite liked her bit about making connections though.

reywaS wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:13 am sounds legit. Would not lynch
Elohcin
Nutella

why

reywaS wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:13 amstill processing....wouldn't lynch unless someone appealed to my sense of logic and talked me into it
indiglo
Lunalee

why

reywaS wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:13 amI has no idea about....would probably join in on a lynchwagon in certain scenarios:
Owner of a lonely heart

why

reywaS wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:13 amWould, at this exact moment in time, have no problem voting for:
Meta-hairy
Triple J
Sexy wut wut beast

why

indiglo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:00 pmSomething feels a little off to me here, almost like it's an effort to appear to be posting content, without really posting content. I don't know if she didn't expect to be asked about her list or what, but I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about this. Her previous posts explaining her thought process read as genuined, but this stuff really feels like an attempt to post content while not really saying anything.

Thoughts? From Mata or anyone?

It's a reasonable gripe. The only read coming from her effort there was on rey, so it didn't amount to much of anything.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:44 am Here was my thinking, I can cast a vote off that has no meaning or I can cast a vote where it can count. Mongoose was already winning the lynch y’all. I didn’t want to tie it up because I didn’t feel like Jay was bad. When considering either Mac or Mongoose. I had felt like I thought Mac seemed loosey goosey and like normal Mac, but I wouldn’t say I feel confident ilenogh to discount him. Whereas there was conversation already about Mongoose and I thought she seemed stiffer than Mac did. Less natural.

Why not?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:44 amThis my vote for Mongoose, who was already about to get lynched. Why would I do this if I was bad? The only reason would be if both Mac and Jay were bad. They both had one less vote than Mongoose, iirc. So please consider this logical, unless you suspect I am on a team with Mac and Jay, this move would not make sense as a baddie.

If you felt the need to take part in a prevailing wagon, then that's a perception that can exist for you in a mafia alignment too. I don't know why the alignments of Mac and I must dictate how you are perceived here.