The Syndicate

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:41 pm Owner/ Gemma

Thoughts

It usually isn't my style to build interactive reads without a mafia flip in the thread. Owner's read on Gemma seemed pointless though, as did her read on MP. They're neutral commentary about the future of the game rather than a present development of a stance. Those are bad things re: Owner in isolation regardless of the other two.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:43 pm The votes are in!!!!

Spoiler: show

You’re town

What sold you?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:51 pm Explain gemma to me

I thought this gripe about Jack looked authentic.

Gemma, you've given a decent amount of your attention to nova:

Question | Prod | Question about prods

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:58 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:57 am For my next performance, I'll suggest lynching a no-show on D1, which is a little more palatable. /s

too late

novas already did that

This carries implied shade given the context of speedchuck's sarcasm.

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:05 pm you're a blob of meta

He's a blob of meta.

I don't object to a lot of questions. Questions are super as long as there is a destination. I don't see a destination. What is your stance on nova?

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:52 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:26 am Lol do I need to cite sources for you?

i'm not very interested in meta

Jack's gripe is valid here. You don't have to be "interested" in meta as a strategy or as a line of suspicion. Regardless of your opinion though, it's what Jack referenced in his beef against DDL. Does this then leave any alternative avenues for the suspicion to be explained?

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:10 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:33 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:39 am

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:41 pm @novaselinenever

Reads please

I'm currently beefing with Rundon'twalk and Soneji. I'm not really buying the formers concern with Jay sticking him as good early on, and the whole "he knows I play the same as both alignments" is whack. That has never stopped people from forming read, let alone gut ones. If what he claims is true and Jay knows him well, he should also know Jay well and that flinging poo early on alongside sticking people with an alignment based on first impression is his bread and butter. I think I talked about Soneji's entrance sometime earlier.

I've thoughts on this bit regarding @rundontwalk2. He should answer you first.

Trust no one.

I'll expand on the thoughts I'd previously withheld. RDW knew me well at one point, in an era long past. My RYM self had a lot in common with my present self, but he wasn't completely the same guy. I don't think I pulled the make gut reads immediately when the game begins thing often (if ever) during that period and I wouldn't expect RDW to be familiar with that specific thing. We've only played one game together in the last three or four years (Fire Emblem).

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:05 pm i don't really have any reads of the townread/scumread type rn sorry

50 posts to arrive here

[VOTE: Gemma] aubergine

I appreciate Ultra's assertive tone. This player doesn't seem frozen by the moment, being in a game with a pile of champions tournament people. Their read on me hasn't budged though since the initial "chainsaw defense" dig; indeed that entire dialogue can be traced to that single thing. I don't care for that.

Owner's read on me is a big wordy paragraph that goes nowhere beyond some notion that I am less serious than normal (which is itself a dubious assertion). That it came right after nova jabbed me with an "underwhelming" comment smells like opportunism.

Neither of the votes on me presently are my favorite.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:24 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:12 pm Owner's read on me is a big wordy paragraph that goes nowhere beyond some notion that I am less serious than normal (which is itself a dubious assertion). That it came right after nova jabbed me with an "underwhelming" comment smells like opportunism.

You scum reading him?

I would call her a premier suspect, yes.

[mention]M Plus 7[/mention] your post history is a fart.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:02 pm Jay why are you ignoring my existence? I have two votes and you have said diddly squat to me? Do you fear me?

I've been devoting my attention primarily to the newer people. What do you think of those votes on you? I checked your own post history up to the point of this gripe you've directed upon me.

nova: you seem to be his best friend. He voted for you quite a while ago, and your responses were " " and "why r u voting me bb".

RDW: you called him a traitor. The end.

I don't see much indication that you've said diddly squat to the two voters about whom you are implying I should care enough to myself say diddly squat.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:11 pm Because he says nothing after this until he votes for me without a reason.

RDW/Jay are teammates. They are probably fucking right now.

What about those specific RDW posts is indicative of distancing? You pulled this out of a random word generator.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:23 pm Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

Do you give the slightest sliver of a shit that nova is voting for you?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:25 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:24 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:17 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:23 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:46 pmHey

What got you so scared?

Huh?

This is a mafioso. Lock it in Eddie.

What

Hey

Huh

What

What are you fucking Timbaland?

lol

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:44 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:23 pm Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

The case aint just "nova is asking questions"

If nova was asking questions and also tunneling the fuck out of someone while being a general pain in the ass it would be fine.

He's just prodding random peoplr all game. I'm yet to see if he intends to do anything with those answers. Like, you know, scumhunting.

This is where you lose me. I would say that in recent memory nova has been an aggressive and assertive civilian. To be a guy who tunnels-the-fuck-out-of-someone is a more specific notion though, and it's a lot to ask that someone fit into that narrow meta ideation. He's at least taking stances and engaging a wide body of the player roster. Good facilitation.

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:57 pm epig shaded jjj with what i thought was a really bad question

Tell me more.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:02 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:37 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:41 pm Owner/ Gemma

Thoughts

It usually isn't my style to build interactive reads without a mafia flip in the thread. Owner's read on Gemma seemed pointless though, as did her read on MP. They're neutral commentary about the future of the game rather than a present development of a stance. Those are bad things re: Owner in isolation regardless of the other two.

Okay so what’s the reason to include the other two? Lip service? Shade?

To look the part. Reads lists are sexy.

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:02 pm

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:05 pm i don't really have any reads of the townread/scumread type rn sorry

50 posts to arrive here

[VOTE: Gemma] aubergine

would you prefer it if i listed some random hard reads and made up reasons for them

Some real reads would be super.

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:28 pm his reads so far are kind of rigid and one-dimensional-ish which is a little concerning but i'm still getting a sense of his process and given the level he seems to be playing at i think things like his mood and approach to me might be more alignment indicative, so he mostly just ends up at null. if you think there is anything he's done that is very alignment indicative for him i would love to hear it

This is a good description in a roundabout way of my trouble with you: I am not getting a sense of your process. Your post history is a casserole of thoughts all splayed in a frying pan. When will you extract bits from the mess and form conclusions? Here's a prompt:

I'd like to know what your present read is on Epignosis.

Finals week begins and now I find myself talking to the wind.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:40 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:36 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:23 pm Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

Do you give the slightest sliver of a shit that nova is voting for you?

Until he explains himself I am just going to assume that it was a "do something" prod.

That's a kind assumption. Why

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:34 pm I think Jay and Epi are teammates. They haven't attacked each other yet.

It seems like 85% of games since 2016 have featured some damned shit spew with him and/or Jack. Meh.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:38 pm -His retreat after being confronted for his vote on Chuck was just bad. It just reeked of trying to appear better after realizing how bad they looked for what they did. This kinda self-awareness is very much from a scum POV and him admitting to it ain't really that much either as something so obvious, you're better off admitting then trying to find excuses.

I don't quite understand the highlighted portion. Please restate somehow. And then tell me what you think a civilian DDL does in this situation to recover from his derp moment.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:57 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:34 pm I think Jay and Epi are teammates. They haven't attacked each other yet.

I’m honestly scumreading Jay for not scumreading me yet.

Just be yourself and I am sure your time will come.

I thought your initial impressions of the DDL/speedchuck incident looked authentic.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:55 am Civilians be more civilian, k

I wish Dizzy were here. He would buddy some people and be super kawai for words. (and cat pictures)

Every game is improved with Dizzy present. Ensure they know I said so.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:56 am
I'm bugged that Owner tacked on with nova here and then wrote this big vague essay about me being "different", whatever that means.

I didn't really tack on. I was already having thoughts in that direction, and highly doubt my past experience/reasoning overlapped with his reason for saying that.

Could be. [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] you still haven't told me what had you underwhelmed.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:22 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:17 am Always bad until I'm convinced otherwise.

Is that everyone or just yourself? I'm asking for a friend. *is curious* * (not related) wants to hear from M Plus 7*

JJJ often gets a pass in my experience for his voluminous content. I give him no such pass.

That said, I believe lynching him Day 1 is -EV in the long term, and thus will not be voting for him today.

What the hell did you just say?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:46 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:36 am I really like these new people. They have personalities, and confidence... it's almost like they are real functioning humans.

Can you be a little less vague and give some more specifics? Like which newer peoples you find townie and what not and which regular folk are more so not human like?

I'm adding Owner to the good list.

That's one...two...three civilians!

Ah ah ah.

~The Count~

Whenever you're not at risk of running into a school bus, I'd like to know why you liked that particular post from Owner.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:31 am Negative expected value. Meaning that I do not believe that lynching you Day 1 is a good long term strategy. If you're good, you do work. If you're bad, you can expose yourself and get caught later. Losing a civilian hustler early is a bad thing in general.

Right I get the term. I just spent a couple minutes laughing at my laptop screen because you utilized that lingo.

I would murder MP for the crime of exuding excitement about the game and then

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:35 am It's innocent. Owner went out of the way to challenge Mac on something even though 1) Mac was not talking about their alignments (as he clarified) and 2) it could get Mac talking about Owner. I dig it.

Okay. Point 1 is a nice one, in that Owner denied Mac the privilege to make a gentle, cozy post and turned it into something relevant.

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:47 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:51 am

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:57 pm epig shaded jjj with what i thought was a really bad question

Tell me more.

i think he was going out of his way to try to make you look bad

I mean: which question specifically and why did it bear that ugly appearance to you?

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:46 pm I let my frustration and anger out on the scum. They shall feel my wrath.

RDW my dude you opened this game eager and ready, but you've tapered off. What gives?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:54 am What the fuck? How far do you have to reach to give Owner town points for such an asinine post? Jfc.

Do you gripe with Epi's rationale?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:57 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:56 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:54 am What the fuck? How far do you have to reach to give Owner town points for such an asinine post? Jfc.

Do you gripe with Epi's rationale?

Yes it's insincere as fuck and you agreeing with it is also dumb. "Oh Owner looks town because he saw a soft mac post and made a big deal out of it".

That's called false scum hunting. it's what Mafia players do. Because they have to fake it. So they hone in on hollow nothingness just like that.

Isolating unique civilian indicators that other people wouldn't mention/notice/care about is something I expect from modern era Epignosis. I don't think the notion is absurd, or at least not any more absurd than the notion that it must instead be a mafia indicator.

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:59 am my process is absorbing as much as information as i can and interacting with people as much as possible without annoying everyone too much until i have a few townreads that i feel good about and can use to worldbuild around. i can't really say when i'll be able to extract things, foreign atmosphere and weird playstyles here don't exactly mesh that well with me so everything is muddier than usual. probably tomorrow given the dayphase ends in like 12 hours or something i think? or hopefully people just lynch me randomly and i never have to

Do your thing as the day continues and I'll judge for myself. As it stands, stuff like this:

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:59 ami don't have a read on him

is hard to understand considering the posts you have dedicated to the matter.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 am What kind of BS doublespeak is this? I never said it "must" be. I pointed out that what Owner did has clear and obvious scum motivation and should not be given any kind of civ clearance. It's one thing for Epi to do it, but for you to see that post and agree with it rather than seeing what I see is major .

Yeah I don't care about your flailing hands emoji. Just about any post in the universe "can" have a scum motivation. Who gives a shit? The point of this game is to make judgments.

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:07 am i don't think his question was in good faith

Okay so you suspect him?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:11 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:09 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 am What kind of BS doublespeak is this? I never said it "must" be. I pointed out that what Owner did has clear and obvious scum motivation and should not be given any kind of civ clearance. It's one thing for Epi to do it, but for you to see that post and agree with it rather than seeing what I see is major .

Yeah I don't care about your flailing hands emoji. Just about any post in the universe "can" have a scum motivation. Who gives a shit? The point of this game is to make judgments.

So it's okay for Epi and you to point at an asinine post and give in townie points but when I point out the scum motivation in the very same post "who gives a shit".

It almost feels like you are intentionally refusing to see my point for some reason Jimbob.

You're not giving me a judgment. You're telling me about what a post "can" be. I don't care about that. Any post can be anything. Do you think the post is suspicious or not?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:14 am Okay Trump

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:12 amDo you think the post is suspicious or not?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:12 am

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:33 am i hope jjj doesn't post more than 8 times before eod because i won't have a chance to reclaim my status as topposter if he does and that would be very sad

How do you see number of posts???

How am i even supposed to iso outside of that search box at the top where i input things randomly and hope to get the results Im looking for

The host also included ISO links next to each players name in the intro posts.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am Okay how do I do that on mobile since I only play on my phone and that doesnt exist here

All ISO links are in this post

I'm in final exams all day and will likely not be available at the deadline.

I'll make a final call soon.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:30 pm I'll make a final call soon.

Where are you at on Ultra? I'm expecting more fire striking back especially after that "possibly you" about poo flinging D0.

I'd lynch him. His read on me never progressed from its origin as though none of my other posts are relevant.

I'm not impressed by Soneji's appearance. Stand by.

Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:11 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:02 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:58 pmPossibly, by you.

I don't need "possibly". What are you referring to?

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:58 pmDefend someone by attacking their accuser.

Since you're here elaborate on that vote

I think DDL got snagged by a booby trap. No lynches are horrendous, and I thought it looked evident that speedchuck wasn't serious in his recommendation.

As a former advocate for no lynch, I've caught a good amount of scum by looking at how people respond to it. To me, it wasn't immediately obvious as a joke but for DDL whose likely played with Speedchuck a good amount it probably should be.

Soneji gently nudges forward a case against DDL by suggesting here that he ought to have known speedchuck was joking about a no lynch.

Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:11 pmYou barely post any memorable content and now you're here making bullet points against the easiest target?

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

Then in the next breath he jams a vote on Dragomir for making a case against the "easiest target" (DDL).

This allows Soneji to rest on both sides of the DDL fence implicitly. In neither instance did he specifically say "DDL is good" or "DDL is bad", but they can be extracted from the words by inference.

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:37 am weak townreads on jjj and mac

Gemma reads have arrived. Can you describe then how you came to these perceptions, or better yet show me the posts? I'm trying to unlock the secrets of the process by which new Syndicate user Gemma generates a stance.

A concern about Epi's case against nova:

The crux of his beefs is that nova has asked numerous questions without follow-up or without going anywhere. I don't know that this is a fair or accurate representation of nova's post history. It isn't difficult to find stances that nova has taken on various people. Indeed I think nova has covered a wide spectrum of the player roster in his various discussions.

Do all of nova's reads need to be tied back to some specific question he asked? Meh. It's a nitpick more than it's a case. Facilitation of a well-paced Mafia game often requires asking questions, per the Sloonei Bible.