The Syndicate

because they both voted sprityo, if one of them were chimborazoa stealing everest then they couldn't have known positively that they'd survive

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:35 pm @Kylemii

Forget mechanics for a min. Where is your head at?

the game is mechanics, my dude.

give me a minute I'm reading through day 2 again

Jack, do you think it's at all possible that sprityo was actually the one lynched on day 2?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:58 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:51 pm Jack, do you think it's at all possible that sprityo was actually the one lynched on day 2?

Mechanically, you're asking if I think a townie stopped the lynch on Sprityo (thinking Jack or Sloonei would be lynched or because Sprityo can stop lynches) or if Sprityo is a secret role that could avoid lynch and also a combo of Everest, Buttes, etc caused Sprityo to have more votes than either me or Sloonei.

I cannot answer that question without confirming or denying that I hold a certain rolecard or rolecards.

I'm asking you if you think it's possible. A yes or no will not confirm or deny your role.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:01 pmI've moved Kyle away from scumspects because a scum kyle wouldn't resort to calling me an actual liar to get me to sway away from him. He's got more integrity than that.

I'm so sorry

oh right.... a lynch stop is an active action isn't it. not automatic

but there's still a problem... just thinking out loud mind you

isn't saying "almost lynched" itself sort of a soft claim?

earlier in the day you mentioned in response to Sloonei that voting for you would result in a mislynch. which seems like a weirdly specific thing to say in retrospect.

It's possible a wolves Jack picked up on Sloonei's attitude towards lynching and decided later after the dust settled but before the guillotine fell to say "almost lynched" and try to take credit for survival.

no roleclaiming is a valid and legal stance to take but it's also particularly convenient here, and lawfulness doesn't necessitate morality or alignment.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:37 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:21 pm but there's still a problem... just thinking out loud mind you

isn't saying "almost lynched" itself sort of a soft claim?

earlier in the day you mentioned in response to Sloonei that voting for you would result in a mislynch. which seems like a weirdly specific thing to say in retrospect.

It's possible a wolves Jack picked up on Sloonei's attitude towards lynching and decided later after the dust settled but before the guillotine fell to say "almost lynched" and try to take credit for survival.

no roleclaiming is a valid and legal stance to take but it's also particularly convenient here, and lawfulness doesn't necessitate morality or alignment.

Convenient nothing. It's the rules. (And I am the rules.)

So many crazy explanations for why I'm bad. Slips and tells and softclaims and schemes. That's okay. I like the reads I have now.

Okay cool. Tough guy non-answer. Not unexpected.

It seems convenient because you weren't concerned about implying aspects about your role at the dusk of day 2

I think you're using roleclaiming rules to avoid taking suspicions seriously. "no sorry I can't roleclaim" is not a valid answer to the question of "hey I think you used knowledge of Sloonei's hypothetical survival role in conjunction with the mafia vote thingy to imply that you survived the lynch as a gamble to survive and are using the lynch ambiguity to gain civ credit"

The problem is I don't think answering the questions requires roleclaiming or even going towards that line if he does the work and explores all aspects of the event equally.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:08 pm You are assuming I was claiming yesterday re:Speed's last post, Kyle.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:17 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:13 pm The problem is I don't think answering the questions requires roleclaiming or even going towards that line if he does the work and explores all aspects of the event equally.

If I think Sprityo really got lynched, I'd only think so if I was Everest. So yes or no am I Everest?

Why did I say I was almost lynched? Was it because I stopped the lynch, have an extra vote or just forgot ties would result in no lynch on Day One only?

You are asking me to roleclaim. I'm not going to.

I'm not asking you to roleclaiming I'm asking you to explain the discrepancies in your actions and your supposed stance on roleclaiming. I'm also asking you to please stop avoiding questions.

I'm also asking why you have Sloonei as a town read, when any of the role permutations of that event where both of you are town are fairly unlikely.

It doesn't matter what I ask, Jack. You don't respond to anything.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:22 pm I'm also asking why you have Sloonei as a town read, when any of the role permutations of that event where both of you are town are fairly unlikely.

How do you figure?

If either of us is the lynch stopper (fairly likely given there should have been a lynch yesterday), why would that player think anything of the other's role? Whoever didn't stop the lynch would have more reason to assume the other was town.

I don't know what you're talking about.

both of you implied survival roles or lynch manipulation or something of the kind. the permutations for that event taking place are limited and some of them include a mafia role, that's something you should be concerned about, don't you think?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:29 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:28 pm It doesn't matter what I ask, Jack. You don't respond to anything.

Bullshit. I've linked back to my answers to you.

If you think I'm bad, then vote for me.

you're avoiding discussing questions right now as we speak. I'm not asking you to roleclaim, I'm asking you to help explore probability.

You don't seem interested in doing that. I'm tired.

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:50 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:44 pm Oh my word, in this back and forth with Kyle I am feeling like Jack's tone is very sincere... this is why this extended Day 1 situation is bad for me, the more stuff thrown at me the more indecisive I feel... I'll re-evaluate when I get home later tonight. I may change my vote.

I like Kyle less and Jack more in reading this argument.

I think my issue with Jack is at least somewhat based in the way he chooses to communicate with others in the thread. This is twice now in this game that I've argued with him over his general unwillingness to cooperate. I'm going to go eat dinner and relax for a little while before exploring things again.

Neither Jack nor Sloonei voted for the other

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:49 pm The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

There are four mafia. Four.

You don't need to sit there and work out which one of Jack or Dunya is bad.

Yes I do. Mafia Dunya doesn't make sense with Mafia Jack.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:47 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:49 pm The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

I thought your name was Nichole? 0:

I'm also hesitant to vote Dunya since she just replaced in and it's kind of I guess... taboo?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:05 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:52 pm Kyle's pushing me today aside (which is tinfoil. Kyle can just let others lynch me if he's bad), Kyle reads exactly like townie Pirate Kyle.

Maybe missteps a bit and is a little unsure but his head and heart are in the right place and he shines town.

Driving force? Shining. Not driving. Fake.

Spoiler: show

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:11 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 pm I'd really like to hear M esk514's thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

I don't like this post. In Pirates mafia (the one and only game I've ever seen Kyle play to this point), he was an active force early in the game. He's been more passive so far in this game, so I prodded him for reads. Five minutes later, he came out with this, absent of content but calling for more content from the newcomer. This post is fluff and an excuse to delay participation in the game.

Yes, my line of thinking too. I've been town with Kyle and I've played in a game with scum Kyle. So far, this is scum Kyle. far more laid back and lurkerish than townie Kyle who has nothing to hide. I don't feel comfortable at all with Kyle's activity Day 0+ Day 1. His post after Sloonei prodded him reads as filler "I was waiting to see what LC and Epi had to say..." I mean come on. Townie Kyle would be the driving force behind the discussion. My money would be Kyle is either our third-party rogue or scum right now, but leaning loner rogue at this point.

you're intentionally misquoting me now. My suspicions on Kyle were for his contributions Day 0 and for an extended part of Day 1, then a conversation we had that was clarified and I took back. I was pushed into a thread that had close to 2000 posts, so excuse me for throwing reads as I read them. Like, rebut my accusations on you, but don't try to misquote me.

Everything pro-Kyle I said applies to D1 and D0 Kyle.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be positive or negative

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:07 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:53 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:47 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:49 pm The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

I thought your name was Nichole? 0:

I'm also hesitant to vote Dunya since she just replaced in and it's kind of I guess... taboo?

why do you want to vote dunya?

I don't want to vote for you yet, I want to give you more time to prove yourself.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:13 pm I have a grievance with the amount of times Kyle has used his Pirate Mafia performance as a way to fend off suspicion. He played games somewhere else that he's also talked about but I didn't quote them. No, I don't care that most of these are direct accusations about his Pirates performance. I think he's using meta as a shield.

You should care that those were in direct response to meta accusations. Why wouldn't you care about that?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:19 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:13 pm I have a grievance with the amount of times Kyle has used his Pirate Mafia performance as a way to fend off suspicion. He played games somewhere else that he's also talked about but I didn't quote them. No, I don't care that most of these are direct accusations about his Pirates performance. I think he's using meta as a shield.

You should care that those were in direct response to meta accusations. Why wouldn't you care about that?

Context is extremely important. I have only talked about pirates mafia when other people have compared my play to that game.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:13 pmYou said you're hesitant, so you must have some issues with me, but the fact I just replaced in now leaves you on the fence of what is ethically acceptable to do. What are your current issues with me? Is it because everything I've said is "fake"? I urge you to dig deeper and explore. It doesn't matter if I only just replaced or have been playing from Day 1.

Well, your first few actions coming into the thread were to protect Mesk, and accuse me, so that wasn't a great start. Honestly your words and actions today since then have eased my concerns somewhat, but I've still got you with a caution sign around your neck.

You and jack voting for each other I think has put me mentally into a false dichotomy where either one or the other of you has to be bad but that's not necessarily true.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:22 pmYou're rejecting perceptions before easing concerns. You're saying "I wasn't an active force in Pirates" when you should be saying "I'm actually not someone who takes the front line" if what they're saying is false about your playstyle.

Well.... The thing is, I don't really know what I'm like yet.

I'm still in the process of rebuilding and understanding my own meta.

I could tell you how I used to play before I left RM two years ago, I could tell you about how I'd focus so much on mafia that I'd get really burnt out on it and disappear for days at a time and miss votes and sometimes forget to send in night actions. I could tell you how I played before the exodus that happened before that one when I had seemingly boundless energy and consistently made 2x as many posts as anyone else in many of the threads.

None of those are me anymore. Playing the way I used to made me tired and anxious all the time, so I'm making a conscious effort this time around to adjust my meta to be less toxic.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:40 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:50 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:44 pm Oh my word, in this back and forth with Kyle I am feeling like Jack's tone is very sincere... this is why this extended Day 1 situation is bad for me, the more stuff thrown at me the more indecisive I feel... I'll re-evaluate when I get home later tonight. I may change my vote.

I like Kyle less and Jack more in reading this argument.

Wow this game exploded tonight, gotta catch up.

Sorry to be that guy but yeah totally this. Kyle's push on Jack is weird. Like why is it so important for Jack to answer that question if it's a purely mechanical question?

I've already explained this, but I wasn't pushing on Jack to roleclaim, I was pushing on Jack cus he appeared to be refusing to discuss the events of day 2 with me on any level even hypothetical

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:54 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

............. oh my god. I see your point now actually.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:55 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:54 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

How can Jack lie about a hypothetical?

what

the theory I was asking jack about was that Jack used Sloonei's "this is a wasted lynch" to his advantage by also making a hint that he'd survive, but later.

lie hypothetically isn't the same as hypothetically lie

but asking jack the questions directly was obviously dumb, he'd either lie as a baddie or stick to his non claim thing as a civ

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:03 pmI'm not interested in what Kylemii did in this game or that or what he usually does here or there. What is he doing here, independently of those other places, that makes you think good or ill of him? That question goes for anyone with an opinion.

I am Kyle.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:03 pm I'm not interested in what Kylemii did in this game or that or what he usually does here or there. What is he doing here, independently of those other places, that makes you think good or ill of him? That question goes for anyone with an opinion.

General impression: he's floating without engaging much, throwing out content without taking strong stances
Recently, his push on Jack is weird and I don't like it. But I also didn't like him earlier for saying Jack was confirmed town. Distancing maneuver? Need to chew on that a bit.

I didn't say Jack was confirmed town I was asking about it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:12 pmEven if a player doesn't answer a question, so long as they address it, move on. Don't keep arguing that they SHOULD answer when they've given their reasoning on the subject. Pah.

I understand the sentiment you're going for here but Jack was addressing different questions from the ones I was actually asking.

I read through Jack's responses to my onslaught of bullshit earlier and it occurs to me that there is a non-0 chance that maybe I was being the asshole in that situation??

With my head cleared now I can see that his answers are fairly clear and decisive and not as smug and evasive as I was viewing them to be.

Also i noticed how warm I am right now and i realized I haven't been drinking water today which is pretty much a don't do when you've been transformed into a fountain of mucus by the gods of pestilence. I think I let some of my dehydrated grumpiness leak into the thread and I apologize.

Leaning towards voting for Dom, I don't want to lynch Jack. Not right now.

Dom and Mesk are pretty much in the same boat as far as participation goes. If one of them is likely to come back and post more it's probably Mesk.

i think we can probably do better though

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:47 pmEw.

where's the emote of someone sneezing forever

Hey Epig, by voting for Jay you're not so much putting Jay at a greater chance of lynching as you are putting Jack and Dom into potential close tie scenario

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:40 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:39 am Hey Epig, by voting for Jay you're not so much putting Jay at a greater chance of lynching as you are putting Jack and Dom into potential close tie scenario

Should this concern me?

Whether it concerns you or not is up to you. Do you want to lynch Jcubed?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:47 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:45 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:40 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:39 am Hey Epig, by voting for Jay you're not so much putting Jay at a greater chance of lynching as you are putting Jack and Dom into potential close tie scenario

Should this concern me?

Whether it concerns you or not is up to you. Do you want to lynch Jcubed?

What?

JJJ or J³. I was being cool and trendy.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 am Spacedaisy has moved to Dom.

Oh. No longer an issue.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:07 am why aren't we all lynching Lasagne? For a low poster, she actually looks bad.

I'd be okay with a Mesk lynch. Momentum may be difficult at this late point however.

I feel like Mesk is at least as likely to be mafia as Dom, but also more informative as there's been people defending and accusing her.

*Mesk*

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:24 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 am Yeah, the Dom lynch will give zero info. I'll go Mesk.

*vote Mesk*

So much for inspiration.

inspidration?

I wasn't planning on thoroughly looking at J³ until tomorrow, is there a significant chance that he's mafia

oh fuck

What are you guys doing. The poll just changed like 16 times it was a potential 4 way tie at one point

Near the end Jay had 5 votes but now Mesk is in the lead again, I think?

nnnnggg sorry Mesk, but at least this way you don't have to catch up any more...

I hope you'll sign up again.

Malakim2099?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:19 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:34 am I wasn't planning on thoroughly looking at J³ until tomorrow, is there a significant chance that he's mafia

Y tho?

He didn't seem relevant until like 30 minutes til the drop and I am still sick and gross, and I don't want to invest my healing nap time into non vital ISO's

I think the events of yesterday more than give reasons for looking into Jay