The Syndicate

Nova's ISO was pukey. Very little, if any, scumhunting effort. Calls Drago town and votes the other wagon.

@[mention]Ty4on[/mention] You mentioned some slight improvements to nova's play on level 2. The lynch still took him, so is it fair to say that the majority didn't agree with your assessment? Do you think more wolf or town votes were on nova?

Elephant wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:15 pm
Benson wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:51 pm
Benson wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:48 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:45 pm
My bum is on your lips wrote:Wolf reads
Nova - Tried extensively to push away from the Drago lynch. Like his ISO is literally 50% defending Drago or trying to lynch a CW. Prime suspect today.
I don't think that's necessarily scummy, could be just wrong townie. At least I'd expect scum to be more discreet unless I'm missing something.
Nova pings me so much because I don't understand his reasoning for being so firmly against the Dragomir wagon. It was like he was trying to get anyone (112 or Epignosis) lynched, as long as it wasn't Drag. Yes, this does seem strange for a wolf to do so blatantly, but it could have been because Drago had a power role and maybe he really wanted to preserve that?
This should say powerful role, not power role. I suppose the Godfather isn't as strong in games where you can't claim anything, however.
This is Benson's stance. I should examine whether "extensively" and "firmly" are warranted. Nova expressed town reads on both Drago and 112 before abandoning the Epignosis vote.

I just read, I think they're warranted as much as they can be without nova getting completely ridiculous about it.

vanity. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:12 pm oh fuck i dumbtelled

ignore me lol

Works better when you let someone else notice it first, but that's just the way I do it...

vanity. wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:45 am benson was also pushing on tlib. he was also just one of the most active and villagery people in our group, though that raises the question why nutella didn't die?

thinking face emoji

Don't really like this post either. I've seen too many wolves (myself included) try to pull a frame-up job nightkill and they're usually the first to bring it up in the thread, after giving a little bit of time for someone else to say something.

Then the ol' leading-question-and-emoji to try to take nutella down a bit without actually making an accusation.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
nutella
Hyena
Creature
Elephant
Trustworthy Liberal
vanity.
novaselinenever / Ty4on

I totally did. Sorry jules! I copied the lynch poll and cut out the extraneous stuff, and I guess I cut out juliets too.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
nutella
Hyena
Creature
Elephant
juliets
Trustworthy Liberal
vanity.
novaselinenever / Ty4on
[/quote]

Going through Elephant's posts from yesterday... he goes on and on about how vanity isn't the same as his town self, and it looks like nothing vanity does it right, and then takes a 90 degree turn and votes DFaraday because "he needs to be sorted".

Were you afraid to pull the trigger on vanity, El?

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:31 pm It seems best tonwait for Nanook to weigh in, but if the other group lynched Nova, that seems to have been a good idea which we should consider emulating? Unless we assume that the other group was as adept with our wagons as we were -- not a surprising occurrence given my prediction, by the way. LHF lynches tend to get directed by scum. Given that both wagons were town, we might need to look towards who set these up.

Ten voters on two players. Who's more responsible, those who set it up, or those who finished it off? Maybe wolves were waiting in the wings to ensure a town lynch? Not to mention that the so-called "LHF group" were all involved in those votes as well, right?

My eyes started to close as I was reading posts, and I'm going to take a nap for a bit. Didn't sleep well at the camp last night.

The thing about townslipping via innocent flavour-reveal questions... hadn't it previously been discussed in-thread at least once? Like, how much leeway do we give, who's not reading the whole thread, and is that in itself a scummy thing to do? Like, I haven't talked about it yet, maybe I'll bolster my townlook on Day 6 by asking again if we can reveal flavour?

We've literally known since the end of Day 1 that scum have flavourclaims, so I don't really understand why they are being discussed at all, nor why any credence should be lent to appearing innocent of something that's in the Rules and on every player's role card.

Is this a culture thing? Do people get townread for this kind of thing elsewhere? Do scum fake-townslip about flavour?

[mention]juliets[/mention] You're in the orange section of my rainbow because your busywork data feed of votes, while obviously time-consuming, takes the place of analysis-time. This is easier to do for a wolf than faking real analysis. Also your reaction to vanity's criticism looked fake to me, an overdone bristly reaction to ward away suspicion.

The criticism in question is in the same flavour as mine - vanity called it "lazy" to literally copy Elephant's reads, and while I wouldn't use that word (because you'll slap me

), it's easier for scum to identify with someone else's reads than create their own. Again, I understand why you did it, but I certainly wouldn't expect you to play a one-dimensional scum game, so I give these pings credibility.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:18 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:28 pm Hmm.

Question to all:

Do you think Spiny/Boo flipping town helped the other group solve people within their group? Do you think one of Vanity's or Elephant's flips will help them? How about Ty4on, who they apparently voted out of the group? Should we be trying to help give them info via flipping the people they send here?
Well I think vanity's or elephant's flip could be interesting to them regardless, though they'd have to assess interactions from d1 based on memory
I've got an idea. How would you feel about lynching vanity or elephant, and then using the (maybe?) vig shot to kill Ty4on? That way, we get the info from people voting between vanity and elephant AND we get the other group's lynch killed to give them info.

Seems reasonable.

Just to be devil's advocate... what are the benefits/drawbacks of a No-Lynch today?

vanity is an acceptable lynch to me. [VOTE: vanity.] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:36 pm I'm not feeling great about how little actual analysis is going on in this here phase but also I am tired and sympathize

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:36 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:34 pm vanity is an acceptable lynch to me. [VOTE: vanity.] aubergine
Choo chooooo

Do go on.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:34 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:40 pm Just to be devil's advocate... what are the benefits/drawbacks of a No-Lynch today?
The benefits are
1. we don't have to worry about getting things wrong and losing another town.
2. we don't have to worry about accidentally mislynching the Vig if that's who's making these towny shots.
3. mislynching town who's not Vig also narrows down who the Vig could be, so, we'd also give the Vig more cover.
3. assuming that scum has to kill and send a town from the other group here, town will still guaranteed be in majority tomorrow.

The drawbacks are
1. No-Lynch vs <Player A> doesn't give us any info on Player A's alignment if no-lynch passes.
2. we also, of course, don't gain the info we might gain from having competing wagons between two players.
3. no one gets resolved.
4. the other group loses out on gaining info from a lynch, too.

Love it, Hyena. I especially love the double 3 on the benefits.

That towncore is acceptable. I'll hopefully do something to get included. Nanook doesn't like me though. I'll just stay in the shadows and help you Avengers out if I can.

I like the vig Role Points point. Whoever the vig is has been spending their points flagrantly, and we may not be able to count on another vig kill at all, depending how many they started with.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:00 am
Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:58 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:54 am Is the vanity wagon making anyone else (hyena) irrationally nervous or is that just me?
Considering that half the players in this group are on the wagon now and that it felt like it grew pretty quickly after Elephant joined it, yes, I am paranoid.

But I also think about D1 in our qualifiers where you predicted our partner's wagon would die down after you and others piled voted onto their wagon. So, while I don't know what to make of it, I'm hesitant to change things up so soon.
Yeah, I have that feeling that vanity is either scum or has scum on their vote. Maybe both but definitely one.

Okay... outside the neophyte towncore squad, we have Long Con, Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena... juliets is absolutely setting herself up for a vanity vote... who else is left? Ty4on? Sure. Creature, then. So you're talking about everyone except Creature with this insight.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:01 am
Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:58 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:54 am Is the vanity wagon making anyone else (hyena) irrationally nervous or is that just me?
Considering that half the players in this group are on the wagon now and that it felt like it grew pretty quickly after Elephant joined it, yes, I am paranoid.

But I also think about D1 in our qualifiers where you predicted our partner's wagon would die down after you and others piled voted onto their wagon. So, while I don't know what to make of it, I'm hesitant to change things up so soon.
I think we let it sit over night for his defense but don't know where I would move right now honestly

In my experience, the way a wagon looks halfway through the day is rarely the way it looks at the end. vanity still needs to show up, and even if he doesn't, someone's gonna get restless.

That said, indeed.

The vigilante is clearly town-aligned to me, and I don't believe in any plan that assumes we can tell the vig what to do. In my experience, vigilantes will make their own decisions when it comes down to it. Plus, the Role Points system limits things a lot more. I don't know if Role Points can be re-earned or whatever, but power roles in this game are not as free to act as usual, right?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:14 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:54 am Is the vanity wagon making anyone else (hyena) irrationally nervous or is that just me?
That's what I was trying to say earlier lol

Is it really irrational though?

Elephant wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:09 am
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:18 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:28 pm Hmm.

Question to all:

Do you think Spiny/Boo flipping town helped the other group solve people within their group? Do you think one of Vanity's or Elephant's flips will help them? How about Ty4on, who they apparently voted out of the group? Should we be trying to help give them info via flipping the people they send here?
Well I think vanity's or elephant's flip could be interesting to them regardless, though they'd have to assess interactions from d1 based on memory
I've got an idea. How would you feel about lynching vanity or elephant, and then using the (maybe?) vig shot to kill Ty4on? That way, we get the info from people voting between vanity and elephant AND we get the other group's lynch killed to give them info.
Leashing the vigilante was a good idea in the championship where the role could be mafia-aligned, but leashing them here does not seem useful. I believe the vigilante was with us yesterday, or they couldn't have targetted DFaraday. If we want to be sure to not lynch the vigilante accidentally, the safe option is to lynch Ty4on or Nanook. I don't advocate the vigilante holstering, if mafia find out who they are, they will probably die in the night; but that decision is one the vigilante must make. That said,

Caught in the middle of crafting a "just right" response, Elephant?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:26 am I do tend to think there’s a relatively lower concentration of scum in this group, 1-2 probably (2 most likely), 3 tops, so it’s entirely possible this is just town catching scum (or at least most of town catching scum with maybe one busser, would be fairly surprised if there are 3 scum in this group and 2 are bussing though). So I’m not as nervous about the vanity wagon as I normally might be. I do think there’s probably scum between vanity and the current non-homies voters though (LC, TL, elephant)

I accidentally cut juliets out of my list earlier. What's your excuse?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:57 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:51 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:26 am I do tend to think there’s a relatively lower concentration of scum in this group, 1-2 probably (2 most likely), 3 tops, so it’s entirely possible this is just town catching scum (or at least most of town catching scum with maybe one busser, would be fairly surprised if there are 3 scum in this group and 2 are bussing though). So I’m not as nervous about the vanity wagon as I normally might be. I do think there’s probably scum between vanity and the current non-homies voters though (LC, TL, elephant)
I accidentally cut juliets out of my list earlier. What's your excuse?
...what? She hasn't voted

Doesn't mean she shouldn't be discussed. Like, include her in towncore or include her in suspects. Is there a third category?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:24 pm Still waiting for some reaction from vanity to the wagon, but I could be down for an LC counter. I might be on the wrong track with Elephant, and Creature has a point that someone's gotta be skating by without much attention and LC is certainly a prime candidate for that position.

Hey, grill me up like a slice of bacon. Putting votes on me isn't going to convince you of anything, read my posts and ask me questions.

Just out shopping right now. I discussed some suspicions earlier on her, and her vanity vote is lame in its predictability. I can give you more when I get home.

Elephant, my opinion on IAAFR has little bearing o my current read of nutella.

Your Drago stuff is best for my mind, and my gut doesn't suspect you either. The level of trust from others affects me as well, and you are widely town read.

Let me get home and have another look at her iso before I commit to that, elephant, creature, and TL, are all acceptable counter wagons if we're looking for one.

Here's how I see it, juliets: people start to vote vanity, then you made a couple of posts that broadcast a likely vanity vote. You said you were going to "eat and read through vanity again" which sounds good, but you don't give any analysis beyond asking Ty4on about vanity's emotional meta. Ty4on posted a couple of times before your next post and yet you didn't mention it again or @ - mention him or anything. Instead you just hop on the vanity train and point at me.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:18 pm So where I’m at right now is—

Vanity is >rand scum

Elephant/hyena/TL/Long Con likely not scum with him.

Hyena and Nutella independently townie

Elephant slightly townie, unlikely partners with juliets imo

IF there’s a busser on vanity, likely LC imo, largely through POE (elephant/vanity not likely W/W from people I’m deciding to trust, don’t think hyena busses this situation, sane fr TL but that’s a weaker read). However that’s not something I’d consider until considerably later in the game.

Think that’s essentially where I stand with the vanity kill.

Yooouuuu think I am a bussin' type of dude? Do I, like, give off that vibe or something?

That Long Con, he just feels like the backstabbin' type.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:28 pm
Elephant wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:29 am At first I thought Hyena had a good idea that makes a lot of sense. Then it occurred to me that the voting system there was different, and I looked up Nanook's account of it. If nobody knows who voted what, the usefulness of flipping Ty4on for that reason seems questionable. @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME , could you determine who defended novaselinenever if you had access to your discussion?
Right. I didn't take into consideration the different voting system there. However, even if they couldn't actively push anyone there, I assumed that they were at least able to say stuff about everyone? Including defending people? I agree that it's not AS beneficial as I thought it was if people can't push others there, but I'm assuming that some information can still be gained from it.

I'd be really surprised if they didn't find a reasonable way to communicate, despite the restrictions. I mean come on. They're not apes.

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:07 pm Let me get home and have another look at her iso before I commit to that, elephant, creature, and TL, are all acceptable counter wagons if we're looking for one.
Why do you see these people as acceptable counter wagons?

They're the ones I have scummier reads of.

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:41 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:28 pm Here's how I see it, juliets: people start to vote vanity, then you made a couple of posts that broadcast a likely vanity vote. You said you were going to "eat and read through vanity again" which sounds good, but you don't give any analysis beyond asking Ty4on about vanity's emotional meta. Ty4on posted a couple of times before your next post and yet you didn't mention it again or @ - mention him or anything. Instead you just hop on the vanity train and point at me.
You're correct I did not post an analysis of vanity, I was tired and it didn't seem necessary. I read through him, noticed there was a lot of emotion in his posts and asked Ty4on the question. I pointed at you because I have been uneasy about you. I have tried to collect some thoughts/questions this morning and this afternoon which I will post in a minute. Maybe you are town and I am just paranoid about you.

Your earlier posts today were showing a growing scum-read on Ty4on, and very few other strong stances on anyone's alignment. You engage Elephant about vanity but you don't really give your own opinion on them very strongly, just question-prompts. Did you decide to start focussing on vanity because of the growing number of vanity voters? Why do you suspect vanity more than Ty4on?

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:44 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:40 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:07 pm Let me get home and have another look at her iso before I commit to that, elephant, creature, and TL, are all acceptable counter wagons if we're looking for one.
Why do you see these people as acceptable counter wagons?
They're the ones I have scummier reads of.
Ok but let's just take one of them - Creature. What is scummy about him? Thats really the question I am asking.

I can't really remember anything that struck me as particularly townish about him, really.

[mention]juliets[/mention] "vanity reacted worse to it than I think was warranted, but he was getting upset about not being townread for his natural towniness, so...

not altogether reasonable to me." So I disagree that I implied vanity getting upset was legit. Right?

I did forget about Ty4on in my list to nutella, but I was phone posting while shopping, so please forgive the exclusion. It's clear enough from previous posts that I'm not opposed to a Ty4on lynch.

I didn't change you from a null to an orange. Me not realizing I accidentally deleted you from the list does not equal me calling you null.

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:59 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:53 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:44 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:40 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:07 pm Let me get home and have another look at her iso before I commit to that, elephant, creature, and TL, are all acceptable counter wagons if we're looking for one.
Why do you see these people as acceptable counter wagons?
They're the ones I have scummier reads of.
Ok but let's just take one of them - Creature. What is scummy about him? Thats really the question I am asking.
I can't really remember anything that struck me as particularly townish about him, really.
You played Arrowverse with us. What do you think about the difference in his game there and here? (He has 322 posts here and 129 by Day 3 in that game.)

I don't really have that great a game memory, I can't remember anything about Creature's performance in that game. Maybe I'll check it out. Probably not today.

Damn it, we gotta hug now!

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:11 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:10 pm Damn it, we gotta hug now!
Lol

also don't miss my post to you at the bottom of the last page

Ok, I'm down with trying an Elephant vote. [VOTE: Elephant] aubergine A sexy tie as well.

vanity. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:51 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:47 pm Ok, I'm down with trying an Elephant vote. [VOTE: Elephant] aubergine A sexy tie as well.
why are you so willing to switch your vote? not that i'm complaining but it stands out to me.

Your latest burst of posts look townish, and I'm pretty comfortable on any of my redder-tinged players. The big fat stack of voters on you for the last day is boring and unproductive.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:53 pm Following his list, the lynches that would be a no-go for today would be NANOOK, nutella and vanity

However, I'd have to fucking ignore Hyena and juliets

He was right on Dragomir at least

So his preferred lynches would be Ty4on and Long Con

Obviously I am ignoring his garbage read on me

Who? Epignosis?

What's slanking?

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:00 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:59 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:53 pm Following his list, the lynches that would be a no-go for today would be NANOOK, nutella and vanity

However, I'd have to fucking ignore Hyena and juliets

He was right on Dragomir at least

So his preferred lynches would be Ty4on and Long Con

Obviously I am ignoring his garbage read on me
Who? Epignosis?
Yep

But Epi townread me. How is his preferred lynch Long Con?

vanity. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:01 pm creature looking at people to sheep is almost always indicative of him being a villager

How do you know this?

Elephant wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:11 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:53 pm Elephant, my opinion on IAAFR has little bearing o my current read of nutella.
What did have a bearing on your read of nutella changing, then?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:55 pm Oh I see I was green in your list. What does have bearing on it then?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:00 pm Your Drago stuff is best for my mind, and my gut doesn't suspect you either. The level of trust from others affects me as well, and you are widely town read.

vanity. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:15 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:11 pm
vanity. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:01 pm creature looking at people to sheep is almost always indicative of him being a villager
How do you know this?
i don't know if that's something creature can't do as mafia, but it's like... i'm a villager, i have no information, let's look at what strong players/other players are saying that can give me guidance in this game state. that sense. there's a sort of naivete about it that tells me that it's indicative of creature being a villager.

also looking at what others say is something wolves don't like to do often because it gives villagers a sense of direction to push in themselves. unless it's something said wolves can use to push their agenda, but creature is pulling from multiple different reads list. i guess it could be a wolf gimmick. but just ask yourself the question: does creature quoting mac or epi's reads list make you consider what those people have to say? if it did, then it probably means that if creature was a wolf, he shouldn't have done that.

You totally laid into juliets for doing that with Elephant's reads.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:11 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:10 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:00 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:59 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:53 pm Following his list, the lynches that would be a no-go for today would be NANOOK, nutella and vanity

However, I'd have to fucking ignore Hyena and juliets

He was right on Dragomir at least

So his preferred lynches would be Ty4on and Long Con

Obviously I am ignoring his garbage read on me
Who? Epignosis?
Yep
But Epi townread me. How is his preferred lynch Long Con?
Oh oops, that's MacDougall

Sorry

Benson is a credible source. The rest are not.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:37 pm Long Con also disappeared...

I'm not disappeared, I'm making dinner for my family. Shish kebabs. I'm trying to stay caught up in a back and forth between the barbecue and the computer. Posting frenzy has increased a lot.

vanity. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:43 pm i played a game so villagery that another villager was paranoid of me. and now that that player is dead, mafia can push their agenda all they want. guess that's how it goes.

Come on, suspicion of you isn't because you're "so villagery".

Search found 317 matches