The Syndicate

And when I said "results may vary", that was my own words... I synonym-changed the role because I wasn't sure about quoting PMs exactly. The real words indicate that it depends on the role I target.

Anyway, I'm going to line up at Walmart for a few hours. Be back later. Probably be checking in on my phone during the wait as well, I guess.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:13 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.

SHOULD HAVE TARGETED LC

LOL ok, so now it's revealed that you lied and were trying to get me to reveal my role so you could kill me. Figured as much.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:35 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:33 pm Why would scum LC claim to have vote manipulation at all?

What happens if you target a player who's not Desmond?

Well that gets to the honesty question — I hesitate about his claim because of that.

Nothing.

Oh, of course, you expect scum to be honest about that kind of thing. It's a pretty big stretch to believe that you believe that. Here's a simpler explanation: you are scum.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:49 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:48 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:13 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.

SHOULD HAVE TARGETED LC

LOL ok, so now it's revealed that you lied and were trying to get me to reveal my role so you could kill me. Figured as much.

What lie did he tell?

He lied about how his role worked to get me to reveal my character and give the scum a free kill.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:04 pm Do either of you have any desire to make any sort of case against me?

The best case I can see is your treatment by Turnip Head. Looks like distancing.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:55 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:52 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:49 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:48 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:13 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.

SHOULD HAVE TARGETED LC

LOL ok, so now it's revealed that you lied and were trying to get me to reveal my role so you could kill me. Figured as much.

What lie did he tell?

He lied about how his role worked to get me to reveal my character and give the scum a free kill.

Clarificatory PM

It's a clever plan whether you are town or scum. Disappointed you say that.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:59 pm @Long Con if tony is mafia and his objective is just to kill a civilian Desmond, then the game is already over.

Not if we lynch him...

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:02 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:01 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:59 pm @Long Con if tony is mafia and his objective is just to kill a civilian Desmond, then the game is already over.

I think you misunderstand something

I’m saying that if you have the role that you claim to have but you are mafia then Long Con would have died in the night. Is that not the case?

No, he didn't target me. Are you still believing the lie?

LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?

I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.

There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:22 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?

I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.

There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.

They had all claimed only you and Sloonei hadn’t?

Right, fair enough. Then you targeted Sloonei. He's the better one to kill anyway.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:22 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?

I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.

There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.

They had all claimed only you and Sloonei hadn’t?

Right, fair enough. Then you targeted Sloonei. He's the better one to kill anyway.

He wouldn’t be better to kill he has me as a townread

He'd be a better kill because he is a town read. You'd want to keep me around for lynch bait.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 pm Though additional thought: with two scum last night if it was me and speed and we both had additional kills we were maxing out at two — I wouldn’t have had an opportunity to use my power, so this is all moot

What's "maxing out"?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:27 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:22 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm

I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.

There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.

They had all claimed only you and Sloonei hadn’t?

Right, fair enough. Then you targeted Sloonei. He's the better one to kill anyway.

He wouldn’t be better to kill he has me as a townread

He'd be a better kill because he is a town read. You'd want to keep me around for lynch bait.

lynch bait oo ha ha

Is that not a cool expression these days? I mean you would kill the townread guy and leave the guy who has more suspicion.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:28 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:27 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 pm Though additional thought: with two scum last night if it was me and speed and we both had additional kills we were maxing out at two — I wouldn’t have had an opportunity to use my power, so this is all moot

What's "maxing out"?

One of us would have had to take the mafia kill, right?

It depends if Nanook makes it a choice, or allows individual abilities, plus choose someone to make the team kill. That's how I ran the Champions Game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 pm Long Con targeted Mikey Night 2. Mikey likely got killed by a role that needs to know his character in order to kill him Night 3.

I don't get to know a role. I get to gain a temporary power.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:33 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:32 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 pm Long Con targeted Mikey Night 2. Mikey likely got killed by a role that needs to know his character in order to kill him Night 3.

LC says D2 and he only would have gotten power info, which isn’t helpful

In this scenario I would assume he’s lying about his role.

No, Tony says Mafia are honest about their roles, so that doesn't makes sense.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:33 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:32 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 pm Long Con targeted Mikey Night 2. Mikey likely got killed by a role that needs to know his character in order to kill him Night 3.

LC says D2 and he only would have gotten power info, which isn’t helpful

In this scenario I would assume he’s lying about his role.

No, Tony says Mafia are honest about their roles, so that doesn't makes sense.

There’s a big LC says there

I think we got out of conversational alignment here.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:35 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:33 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:32 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 pm Long Con targeted Mikey Night 2. Mikey likely got killed by a role that needs to know his character in order to kill him Night 3.

LC says D2 and he only would have gotten power info, which isn’t helpful

In this scenario I would assume he’s lying about his role.

No, Tony says Mafia are honest about their roles, so that doesn't makes sense.

You have both reacted as though the other is being truthful about their role. It’s weird.

Not really...? I said yesterday that Tony was lying about his role, and what I thought the role probably is. Then today he confirmed what I thought, and the results of the night (me not dead) helps me believe that.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:32 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 pm Long Con targeted Mikey Night 2. Mikey likely got killed by a role that needs to know his character in order to kill him Night 3.

I don't get to know a role. I get to gain a temporary power.

So what did you do with his power?

I found out ts account is not an assassin.

maybe only certain roles are designated as Assassins for game purposes?

He's a Researcher here.

If he were an Assassin, I would have said he's an Assassin. There's no gain for me to lie about this.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:46 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:45 pm If he were an Assassin, I would have said he's an Assassin. There's no gain for me to lie about this.

Why’d you target Mikey?

Pretty random choice. I don't really know what it means to be an Assassin or not.

Yes!

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:52 pm LC when do you find out the power of the person you target

End of the day, after the lynch. I had up until the lynch to choose.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:52 pm Ugh we missed something

Guys, you wanna take a break? I want to do some chores, etc, but I want to be here for the final lynch debate. Time out?

We have 72 hours.

Ok, then I'll be back in a bit.

I've just been playing Paper magic with a webcam set up with my friend, I don't have a membership for magic online or anyting.

Anyway, I'm out in the workshop now, but I want to ask you guys if either of you are assassins?

So... we all like Magic? Maybe we're more alike than we thought. Maybe... we don't HAVE to lynch anyone!

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:24 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:43 pm So... we all like Magic? Maybe we're more alike than we thought. Maybe... we don't HAVE to lynch anyone!

scum

Takes a real scum to admit it like that.

Here's the thing: Tony or Sloonei are Mafia, and it's Tony because I don't believe in a world where a Civilian's ability is to find and kill another Civilian. He tried to get me to unwittingly out myself for the easy kill by lying to the thread about his role. Tony's story is that he's a Civilian killer who gets to free-kill one of the four Mafia members.

Sloonei has to decide which is more likely, and more realistic. I'm biased by the fact that I know which version is right, but I'm trying to step back and look at it from Sloonei's perspective, and the way that it is is the way that just makes more sense. This is a Mafia ability nine times out of ten, and this game is no exception.

When I'm on a Mafia team, it matters to me a great deal to do right by them. I take it seriously, because the other team members are relying on me to do my part. Earlier in the game, I got pissed off that anything I did to try and scum hunt was only resulting in more suspicion on me, so I said "Fuck this" and self-voted myself into lynch contention. There's no way in hell that I would do that to my Mafia teammates, especially when Epignosis is on the team, with a 100% win record in 2020. I may be a selfish asshole and a big baby sometimes, but I would never and could never screw over my friends and teammates like that.

Maybe this is all WIFOM, sure, that's always a possibility in any game, but it's just not.

I'm voting for Tony now, Tony, you might as well vote for me. Let's let Sloonei hammer when he decides to end the game, that's how it is, no need to be coy about votes. [VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:57 pm I don’t have as much to say as a final statement. The argument that LC wouldn’t self-vote if he were scum is strong, but it’s the only thing his town argument is hinging on. If you remove that, it’s an open and shut case. With the town vote, there are so many possibilities for LC to be lying about his role or for scum to just have the blanket “you decide ties” ability or it was just a failed gambit that he’s trying to turn around.

I’ll remind Sloonei that the roles were randomized onto teams, and thus the “scuminess” of my role has no bearing on if I am scum or not. And yeah, I misunderstood my role and made a big show of it. That’s not optimal play as town or scum, but if I’m scum I would have had teammates to interpret my role a little differently and I would have cared more — played a little more precisely. There’s no reasonable way to believe that I’m so flamboyant with my role if I’m scum without succeeding in my task.

LC is trying to condense this into two individual oopsiedoodles with the argument that he wouldn’t do his if he were scum while I argue I wouldn’t do mine if I were not scum. But if you look at the whole scope of the game outside of these incidents, one of us is clearly working for the benefit of the town and one of us is not. I trust you’ll find that in your review.

Vote: LC

I didn't say anything about oopsiedoodles, this is slander.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:59 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:00 pm Turnip Head is town.

Oh.

Mr. LC, you had just got done ISOing the accused Turnip and then dropped a vote on his Head, only for Sloonei to shove this obnoxious town read back in your face. You barely reacted at all. What was this response?

It was exactly because I had just finished a bunch of work on Turnip Head. Like I said, every time I put effort into the game, it was instantly shit on. That's part of the reason I got a "screw this" attitude. I just spent an hour going through and analyzing Turnip Head's posts, and the only response is the most townread player saying "Turnip Head is town." What am I supposed to say? I just spent an hour saying what I had to say about Turnip Head. Repeat myself? I felt like a nerd who tried to be cool, but then one of the popular kids was like "Ha ha no."

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:02 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:45 pm [VOTE: radish] aubergine

I've been thinking about it, and I'm feeling a TMI vibe from radishes, he is too sure that I'm Civ.

I see no indication prior to this exact moment that Master Radishes was a viable candidate to be lynched in Long Con's mind. Why does this vote exist? This is on Day 2, when the two counterwagons were speedchuck and Turnip Head. Epignosis and Turnip Head were also voting for Radishes.

It was a result of thinking about the game while going about my daily life. The "process" didn't happen in the thread. It occurred to me while cleaning out the workshop, and I came in and posted.

I really don't envy you here, Sloon. I prefer to be in the Tony/LC position in the Final 3 than yours.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:48 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:07 pm I really don't envy you here, Sloon. I prefer to be in the Tony/LC position in the Final 3 than yours.

nah I feel powerless I don’t like it

yeah, I do get you there. I've just been in his position before, and made the wrong decision, and it's just a lot of pressure.

Leetic because he was in the lynch lead (at four votes?), and Turnip Head because Drago asked someone to look and see if they see what he saw in TH, I think.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:58 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:55 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:53 pm I ranked all the players and then divided that into groups of 4 because that was roughly how I felt — there were no “huge gaps” in how townie I thought anyone was, no runaway towncore and no obvious scum. Coulda done it all in one running list but I wouldn’t have felt differently about it. It’s not like I type something and that determines what I think about each person

You said yesterday that speedchuck and long con were incompatible. Why?

I really thought it was FG. I changed my mind towards the end of the day (which is visible) when I saw how speed and LC interacted over my power role; it seemed clear that one was covering for the other.

Oh really, I was covering for speedchuck? News to me.

First, I don't really discover a role, I receive a nerfed version of an ability my target has. It didn't tell me anything about his alignment.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:02 pm First, I don't really discover a role, I receive a nerfed version of an ability my target has. It didn't tell me anything about his alignment.

What was different about the ability you received and the one listed in his role description?

Role description: Cutting Edge Researcher - Every night you can focus your considerable researching ability on one player and, if they’re an Ancient Assassin you’ll learn their character.

My version allowed me to learn is a player is an Assassin or not.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:11 pm I accidentally deleted everything I had and now I'm sad. It'll be shorter the second time. I have work to do.

That sucks, dude.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:13 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:02 pm First, I don't really discover a role, I receive a nerfed version of an ability my target has. It didn't tell me anything about his alignment.

What was different about the ability you received and the one listed in his role description?

Role description: Cutting Edge Researcher - Every night you can focus your considerable researching ability on one player and, if they’re an Ancient Assassin you’ll learn their character.

My version allowed me to learn is a player is an Assassin or not.

*if a player is an Assassin or not.

I was hoping that my version of your power would give me a chance to kill you.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:00 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:53 pm I was hoping that my version of your power would give me a chance to kill you.

Actually before I vote: I was asking if you had a response to tony's big post on the bottom of the previous page.

Not much. I don't get why he says that those quotes at the end are responses to speedchuck, because I'm clearly responding to TSP and ts account. The rest is underwhelming and I can respond specifically to anything you wish.