The Syndicate

Well I'm adequately confused

Oh shit [mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] did you replace Rej?

Lol @ Evenstar, Lexi, Nanook and Pawn all being here.

The suckiest part is that we can't see the poll results from yesterday, nor can we go through the EOD to solve people from the lynch. Perhaps we should begin by asking for a little honesty session and trying to piece together who did what yesterday?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:09 pm So this is some weird separated thread shit right? Seems unlikely half the game died with no flips lol

I've played in games on here before that have utilised a separated thread mechanic. It's not usual but it would be my first guess. It's possible that we might be the dead or something too.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:13 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:12 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:09 pm So this is some weird separated thread shit right? Seems unlikely half the game died with no flips lol
I've played in games on here before that have utilised a separated thread mechanic. It's not usual but it would be my first guess. It's possible that we might be the dead or something too.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. Possible this is like a face off of sorts where we don’t actually decide who dies. Idk lets just make the most of it I guess

Maybe we're voting for who gets to go back lol.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:10 pm I copied and pasted the poll results. Hell, I still have the tab up. I see nothing in the rules about posting the poll from Day 1.

Do it before Jay says no lol

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:15 pm so i cant talk about who i suspect?

what do i do now

Of course you can lol. Who is here that was on your scum list? Just start there.

The thing that stood out the most to me was that both wagons were on players who were not there at EOD and neither of them had their vote on the other which makes both the main wagons more of a possibility than it ordinarily would be. I think there is potential for the Dragomir wagon to have been pushed over the line at the end by virtue of the present scum choosing to lynch Dragomir over 112.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] do you know if the latter names on the polls are the ones latest to the vote or is it all mixed up?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:20 pm Okay, I think what I wrote up is fine. The links won't work but I'm not editing them out now.

Assertion: there are definitely scum on the 112 wagon (regardless of 112’s alignment)

Reasoning: because the mafia would be bad at mafia if they didn’t try to save their mafia

Further reasoning: how EoD went down was very interesting; the vote went from 8-5 for Drago, to a sudden 8-8 tie, then last minute consolidated on Drago again – this really feels like some voters were trying to save Drago

So I’m going to look exclusively at 112 voters to decide which one seem like potential scum votes.

Creature
Voted over a day before EoD – followed vanity for pressure apparently, but I see no other reasoning for sticking with the 112 vote – had been bouncing around a lot before that
Was not around at EoD

Conclusion: sticking with an unexplained vote like that is nagl, imo, but vote itself is NAI

Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious

Elephant
Voted 6 hours before EoD – had a scumread on 112 building long before that
Seemed to be around at EoD but was not interacting much – did not engage with final moments of the Drago/112 wagons

Conclusion: progression is clear = vote is NAI

Jack
Voted 5 hours before EoD – didn’t justify vote at all, and there was little progression towards it, beyond claiming he’d be willing to sheep nutella’s read
Was around at EoD and sat on 112 vote – hinted at a potential belief that Drago might be town.

Conclusion = Somewhat suspicious

Nova
Voted with 7 mins left, as the choice became clearly Drago v. 112
There is no justification – literally just dropped a vote right as Drago was pulling away, helping to tie the wagons up.
The rest of Nova’s EoD engagement basically revolved around trying to get Mac’s attention.

Conclusion: incredibly suspicious timing of vote

Evenstar
Voted with 3 mins left, tying the wagons up at 8-8 at a crucial moment
Simply says ‘idk if Drago is scum’
Only appeared in final minutes and mainly engaged about the Epi counter-wagon that was already dissipating

Conclusion: incredibly suspicious timing of vote

TonyStarkPrime
Voted ?time unkown? – there’s no correct vote-call in thread, but he’s included in poll numbers
At exactly EoD (:00) there’s an incorrectly-formatted vote, however. This was preceded 12 minutes earlier by statement that he would vote 112 over Drago, and there were hints of scumreading 112 earlier in the round.
Worth noting: up until the final 20-30 mins TSP was a legit wagon himself.

Conclusion: Definitely suspicious, but at :00 Drago was a clear lynch choice (10-7) so if TSP was scum trying to save scum it’s terrible timing.

OVERALL CONCLUSIONS
Evenstar and Nova closely resemble scum casually trying to swing the vote away from Drago.

Epi, Jack, and TSP are all potential scummates of Drago as well, based on how their votes went down, but there’s more room to interpret their actions differently.

Elephant and Creature are, at worst, NAI.

So you don't see the potential of them being duelling scum wagons?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm So you don't see the potential of them being duelling scum wagons?
I do think it's possible, but I still think there are scum on the 112 wagon even in that case.

It really felt like a nudge to see if Drago could be saved - the counter-votes piled up on 112 suddenly and without anyone explaining it.

In the event of that being the case I'd say that there are likely to very few scum on the 112 wagon unless they were stuck there via distancing. If the scum had to choose Dragomir over 112 then they would have mostly jumped off. It's possible that the 112 wagon was initially just scum distancing thinking that there was no chance of the lynch occurring and then all dived off to Dragomir at the absolute last chance.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:25 pm Continuation: I do think there are likely scum on Drago, but the way EoD unfolded I think there was an attempt to save Drago too. I only focused on that; didn't have time to look at Drago votes for a potential busser.

The person who made me the most squishy faced was Long Con.

Looking at the Dragomir voters I'd say that the ones most likely to be teammates are Long Con and Juliets at face value, which is obviously not very helpful.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:28 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:26 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:22 pm So you don't see the potential of them being duelling scum wagons?
I do think it's possible, but I still think there are scum on the 112 wagon even in that case.

It really felt like a nudge to see if Drago could be saved - the counter-votes piled up on 112 suddenly and without anyone explaining it.
In the event of that being the case I'd say that there are likely to very few scum on the 112 wagon unless they were stuck there via distancing. If the scum had to choose Dragomir over 112 then they would have mostly jumped off. It's possible that the 112 wagon was initially just scum distancing thinking that there was no chance of the lynch occurring and then all dived off to Dragomir at the absolute last chance.
Maybe. But the only one I recall jumping over was Long Con.

Long Con jumped from 112? I knew he threw the vote there late but I didn't know he came from 112.

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:30 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:29 pm Looking at the Dragomir voters I'd say that the ones most likely to be teammates are Long Con and Juliets at face value, which is obviously not very helpful.
i think pawns the most likely busser but i dont want to look at bussers that much today

gonna spam this list over and over this game day tbh

{tonystarkprime, creature, novaselinenever, texas cloverleaf}

Nova is the only one of these four in here so I don't see the point of spamming it.

[mention]iaafr[/mention] can you explain why you dropped out altogether?

Jesus Christ Epi you went to work lol

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:31 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:30 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:29 pm Looking at the Dragomir voters I'd say that the ones most likely to be teammates are Long Con and Juliets at face value, which is obviously not very helpful.
i think pawns the most likely busser but i dont want to look at bussers that much today

gonna spam this list over and over this game day tbh

{tonystarkprime, creature, novaselinenever, texas cloverleaf}
Nova is the only one of these four in here so I don't see the point of spamming it.
oh whoops

totally unintentional

man wtf is this setup

i will pick a different list of 3+ that i can spam and i will rand my vote inside there with an actual rng so nobody can accuse me of angling a way to indicate that im voting nova

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:31 pm @iaafr can you explain why you dropped out altogether?
for fun

i never intended to stay on 112, i wanted to make the wagon look viable and like i would townread people for joining it

getting on scum lynches is boring and might give me too much cred to live

That would require you to know who the scum are?

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:34 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:33 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:31 pm @iaafr can you explain why you dropped out altogether?
for fun

i never intended to stay on 112, i wanted to make the wagon look viable and like i would townread people for joining it

getting on scum lynches is boring and might give me too much cred to live
That would require you to know who the scum are?
drago was obvscum in my book

So you thought he was obvscum, but didn't vote there, because ... getting on scum lynches is boring and you might die from it?

O..k.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:35 pm Damn, I'm seeing why Epi has a rep

this is good casework

I can't remember him actually doing this before lol

I'll be back in a while

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:29 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:24 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:05 pm
Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:57 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:53 pm @Pawn Lelouch Mind explaining why you told me Mac was responsible for "crusading" on the Epi wagon when he... really didn't do dick all except have a bout of paranoia?
Since he is the person who basically started the Epi wagon and was the person who got people to vote on it.

Since no one actually posted any real reasons to put their vote on him outside of vague paranoia that mimicked Mac's. They just followed onto him out of fearmongering about Epi's scum game from Mac.

So from my perspective Mac is by far the most prominent reason and person why Epi was a wagon. I stand by what I said.
Okay, this is a much better answer. I do agree that Mac was the catalyst, but IMO the jumps on looked very opportunistic and scummy, which said to me that Mac was a wrong townie getting taken advantage of by uhhhh fuck I didn't write it down I was expecting to have the thread still

Epignosis do you recall who followed Mac onto your wagon? There were like three votes in quick succession, I think one of them was Iaafr?
MacDougall was one. iaafr was one. Hyena was one. novaselinenever was one. There was one more, but it is eluding me. The most I had at one point was five votes.
Yeah Nova super deserves pressure today after following Mac like that.

Speaking of which, @Macdougall: Stop overthinking and get out of your Epi tunnel, this man is town. You're reading way too much in and letting your paranoia get the best of you.

wtf is this based on?

Firstly, you are not qualified to make statements like that Evenstar. How I engage Epignosis is entirely up to me. You've played literally zero games with him. Why are you talking like you have some empirical wisdom as it pertains to his role?

Secondly, I've given you no indication that I even suspect Epi anymore so your comment is bizarrely out of sync with up to date reality.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:09 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:05 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:29 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:24 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:05 pm
Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:57 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:53 pm @Pawn Lelouch Mind explaining why you told me Mac was responsible for "crusading" on the Epi wagon when he... really didn't do dick all except have a bout of paranoia?
Since he is the person who basically started the Epi wagon and was the person who got people to vote on it.

Since no one actually posted any real reasons to put their vote on him outside of vague paranoia that mimicked Mac's. They just followed onto him out of fearmongering about Epi's scum game from Mac.

So from my perspective Mac is by far the most prominent reason and person why Epi was a wagon. I stand by what I said.
Okay, this is a much better answer. I do agree that Mac was the catalyst, but IMO the jumps on looked very opportunistic and scummy, which said to me that Mac was a wrong townie getting taken advantage of by uhhhh fuck I didn't write it down I was expecting to have the thread still

Epignosis do you recall who followed Mac onto your wagon? There were like three votes in quick succession, I think one of them was Iaafr?
MacDougall was one. iaafr was one. Hyena was one. novaselinenever was one. There was one more, but it is eluding me. The most I had at one point was five votes.
Yeah Nova super deserves pressure today after following Mac like that.

Speaking of which, @Macdougall: Stop overthinking and get out of your Epi tunnel, this man is town. You're reading way too much in and letting your paranoia get the best of you.
wtf is this based on?
His whole damn iso plus the fact that like three people instantly jumped on him as a counterwagon to a lynched wolf as soon as you voted for him

For crying out loud, do you believe that 112/Dragomir/Epignosis were THREE SCUM WAGONS?

Give your fucking head a shake man, you're playing terribly this game.

Get off your high horse please. You're embarrassing.

I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.

[mention]Dom[/mention] in regards to your comments in that wall post.

"Sucking up to Epi" is a pretty interesting way to describe what I was doing. The Long Con quotes were not me sucking up to Epi. They were Long Con trying to gotcha me by saying that me saying his scumteams usually win doesn't jive with me saying I've not played against scum him. Newsflash, I've read the HOF. Also what does me explaining how I feel about Epi have to do with how I feel about you? I don't understand the connection you're trying to make?

Re: Do I think you're bad. Again, why are you choosing to analyse how I am treating you as though it has anything to do with how I treat Epi? Firstly, I tend to ignore you in games quite a great deal these days because of how you historically lose your shit with how I deal with you. Given it's just a game I'd rather not make the experience for everyone, including you and me, toxic. Other people can solve you, and are better at it. Secondly, you came into the thread about 4000 pages after Epi did so you "cruising" vs. him "cruising" mean absolutely different things. I hadn't even thought of you as cruising. But now that you point it out... you do something that could be described as cruising in most games that I notice anyway.

Re: You having similarities to Nanook. Nanook hates the way I play as much as you do.

Re: My interaction with Benson. I have about seven billion games experience with Epi. Benson does not. For Benson to want to protect Epi on the basis of how others including myself rate him struck me as false. Meh, it was a fleeting thought. Benson overall looked fine I think.

Re: Is Drago getting lynched for sleaze. I was trying to think of the overarching reason Dragomir was catching so much suspicion and drawing blanks outside of the fact that he was being weird towards Evenstar. I guess sleazy Dragomir is a scumtell of his lol.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:12 pm @Epignosis Who are you?

This is a mood. It's like the spirit of Sloonei has taken over his body.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:16 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:11 pm I haven't even indicated I am suspicious of him this phase and you're acting like I've been non stop accusing him. It's weird. Stfu.
- my bad, it was Radishes and Iaafr who were sussing him and I'm used to their reads being bad lol

Okay well with the way you attack people I'd double check the facts first because it's pretty lame.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:26 pm Mac the shitting the bed I was referring to before D1 was why didn't you break the tie or weight in at all at EoD? You had Drago as red throughout the phase and 112 definitely not as red if I remember correctly

I don't really like firing shots in that situation most of the time unless I have a strong feel (or I'm feeling like sewing chaos). If push came to shove I would have probably pres voted Dragomir to help save 112 but who knows. By the time I even started considering which wagon to put my vote on Dragomir had stretched away and tbh I didn't have very good feelings that either of them were going to flip red towards the end of the day. The wagonomics of Dragomir flipping red weren't really there, which is partly why I think it's possibly dueling scumwagons.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:29 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:09 pm Firstly, you are not qualified to make statements like that Evenstar. How I engage Epignosis is entirely up to me. You've played literally zero games with him. Why are you talking like you have some empirical wisdom as it pertains to his role?

Secondly, I've given you no indication that I even suspect Epi anymore so your comment is bizarrely out of sync with up to date reality.
Chill, I attributed things radishes and iaafr said to you. Touchy much?

I wrote this before I saw that.

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:27 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:15 pm @Pawn Lelouch Any thoughts regarding how to deal with the setup fuckery?
Well the easiest method is honestly fairly simple and has been mentioned to an extent already. There are 16 players here according to the list. Everyone exclude themselves.

Have everyone iso in groups of 3 and give thoughts on them. Once they get all the way through the 5 groups gun to the head on them. That way they likely will have more than 3 vote potentials and won't run afoul of the rules.

At this point the thread narrows focus based on those who are most popular and directs attention on them.

Try and gather more data as they get grilled for insights and info to narrow down further (and note any suspicious behavior from the questioners) to a top 3.

And while nothing can be said outright, it should be easy enough to see where people are personally looking for the final vote to go and for a rough coordination to occur.

Is this perfect? Hell no, but it's the best I can reasonably see done with the constraints placed on us.

Lol this isn't "honestly fairly simple".

I don't understand why we don't just scum hunt and then vote for who we want to lynch? What's the problem with that? This situation would be as disadvantageous to the scum as it is to the town I think? Let's say there are like 3 wolves in here, 4 at max and they all coordinate their vote... You've still got a ton of other people who without the implication of having to narrow their vote down to viable wagons get to just vote for the objectively scummiest person. Surely more than 4 players are all gonna feel the same "scummiest" person and vote there?

I feel like if anything we will be more likely to lynch scum in this environment than an ordinary one? Am I taking crazy pills?

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:36 pm I'm reading that post as facetious

i read this post as faecetious.

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:40 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:07 pm wish I was part of the fun group
Do the people bitching about the lack of content know they can generate content and aren't dependent on others to do so and therefore I suspect them since they seem to want others to take the lead for them and be their fall guy?

@Epignosis what say you?

Preach. Regardless, this is a fun game. I'm enjoying the unique shit. I don't know what the deal is with the negativity. Play the hand your dealt.

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:44 pm I got evenstars backhanding my reads and epi talking to me like I don't know how voting works

how about nobody talk about me ever and maybe I can start enjoying myself

I am so confused right now. We cool here. You wan hug?

[mention]112[/mention] you are way out of your normal town range here. What's your dealio?

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:45 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:44 pm I got evenstars backhanding my reads and epi talking to me like I don't know how voting works

how about nobody talk about me ever and maybe I can start enjoying myself
I am so confused right now. We cool here. You wan hug?
what's confusing? I'm spelling out why I'm having issues enjoying this game

you and I are cool

I am just confused why you are letting those two get to you, come over here and help me find badders instead.

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 pm
Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:33 pm
112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:27 pm remember when i used one of my last posts last round to put drago in a list of five potential players i thought could be scum?

there's no world in which i'm wolfing, basically
Oh no, one of five players that can be scum in a 30 player game. Such majesty and towniness.

If you want to argue for being town there are a hell of a lot better avenues and arguments than that to attempt.
do you know who doesn't get sarcasm?

wolves.

New gimmick, only posting in YouTube videos. Sorry not sorry.

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:49 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:48 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:45 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:44 pm I got evenstars backhanding my reads and epi talking to me like I don't know how voting works

how about nobody talk about me ever and maybe I can start enjoying myself
I am so confused right now. We cool here. You wan hug?
what's confusing? I'm spelling out why I'm having issues enjoying this game

you and I are cool
I am just confused why you are letting those two get to you, come over here and help me find badders instead.
I'm busy at work I'm skimming and pretty much only reacting to what gets a rise out of me

I'll full force later, probably by contrasting my takes with epis on his cases

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:51 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:46 pm @112 you are way out of your normal town range here. What's your dealio?
i don't think i am tbh- my town range is more of a spectrum

Oh yeah cool cool. I don't believe you.

[mention]Dom[/mention] what wouldn't you trust?

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:03 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:55 pm
112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:51 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:46 pm @112 you are way out of your normal town range here. What's your dealio?
i don't think i am tbh- my town range is more of a spectrum
Oh yeah cool cool. I don't believe you.
ok, you got me

real answer is that i've been going through some stuff in real life and it's completely unfalsifiable

Me too! I was literally scheduled to fly to Bali for a "work" vacation like 30 minutes ago but I couldn't find my passport so I had to cancel it. How good is that!?

Love one another people!

112 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:12 pmi cast fireball

are we playing Hearthstone or MTG?

Lady LambdaDelta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:20 pm What stops people from doing

"here is a lynch list of 3:

Player A
Player B
Player C"

new post
"here is a lynch list of 3:

Player A
Player D
Player E"

"Here is a lynch list of 3:

Player A
Player F
Player G"

Nothing at all. Do so.

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:28 pm
Lady LambdaDelta wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:23 pm This is a game.

If they're gonnna fuck with us with "you're not allowed to catch up on a game and read old posts you missed"

then why not abuse their fucking system
I'm expecting they'll hit us with trying to break the spirit of the rules if we try that and tell us to knock it off.

That's when we rebel and lynch them

I LOVE YOU ALL LIKE A FAMILY

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