The Syndicate

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:05 pm

Can you read him? I'm asking for a friend. He did one thing I liked in the game that poutanko linked, so maybe that will happen again. But he's really null most of the time.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:11 pm No I was laughing at "I've played a shit tone of games with you and can't read you worth a damn" coming from the lady that said "I know DH's Meta" after 1 game of incorrectly reading me all game.

You remind me of 2 players I play with on my home site.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:25 pm OoaLH or Soneji are my top picks atm

Why Soneji? *is being ninjaed by speedchuck* I know you've already expressed interest in my lynch, but what has Soneji done that would make you want to lynch him over the other wagons?

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:42 am also i [VOTE: timmer] aubergine

What do you think of some of the other wagons?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:59 pm Still want to lynch 3J, but Owner isn’t a bad call either.

Which posts changed your mind?

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:20 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:01 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:59 pm Still want to lynch 3J, but Owner isn’t a bad call either.
Which posts changed your mind?
a.k.a "oops, where did I mess up?"

going back to look at some of Owner's posts...

More like people pushing against something that they don't understand.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:41 pm Owner's suspicion of DH reads ingenuine
Her defense of the Deathly Hallows/Dark Arts thing wasn't even needed, but she overexplained it in a way that looked nervous

Are there any other facets to the case there?

You seem to want to add more to a fire that's already developing very quickly.

JJJ, I wouldn't bother. I think they are going to lynch me today regardless of what I say.

When does the day end? I need to know how long I have to make a final reads list.

karavalenge wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:53 am
Spoiler: show

Who is ready to learn?

Picture tell scummy [VOTE: karavalenge] aubergine

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:47 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:01 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:59 pm Still want to lynch 3J, but Owner isn’t a bad call either.
Which posts changed your mind?
I think in general your responses under pressure, tonally, have something suspicious about them, like you’re fighting to survive by any means necessary. Could be town, but I tend to think of it as a scumtell.

It's potentially environment. I would say it's null if anything. If you were to play at a different site where there is no guarantee that the other players will listen to you or even defend you in some manner, and then at the start of the game, players criticize how you go about playing the game, do you feel safe among these people? (yes or no)

If you don't feel safe, the tone will reflect that.

Opportunistic Pile (potentially scummy for it)
Turnip Head
ColinisCool
Luna

---
Unrelated, I thought Quin could be with DH at on point.

But it was probably more like playful banter.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:50 pm Of course I'm Ravenclaw :P

feels oddly forced

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:27 pm Greetings, my friends! I know very little about Harry Potter - never read the books, seem some but not all of the movies. That said, I only wanted to be in one ‘house’ and as luck would have it, it’s the one I got!

Glorfindel has been oddly quiet. I wonder if that's a bad thing.

karavalenge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:27 pm Green Two standing by.

not really added much

---
unrelated, I might have a town read on Long Con.
---

I'm not remembering Mac's posts. I wonder if I should be concerned or not about it.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:56 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:51 pm JJJ, I wouldn't bother. I think they are going to lynch me today regardless of what I say.
Owner, JJJ is not here, but I am trying to get your side of this to be fair. I'm sure it feels like I'm prodding but I'm doing it so that I can make sure I understand where you're coming from.

JJJ switched his vote though. I would say he was here recently.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:01 pm @Owner of a Lonely Heart ...my avatar is Luna Lovegood. Who was a Ravenclaw.

Yeah, so what? You think that excludes you when 4 people are voting for me when I'm a Hufflepuff?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:03 pm TH is voting Owner. Owner is not voting TH.

Iiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnteresting

Why should I self-pres? It won't help unless TH is really a baddie. If I have to help myself in order to survive day 1, I'm surely getting lynched in the future. There would be too much wifom/distraction around my existence.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:38 am
karavalenge wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:53 am
Spoiler: show

Who is ready to learn?
Those comics are the best thing to come out of Harry Potter.

speedy's picture might make him town xD, among other reasons

karavalenge wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm I think Gryffindor is suspect since the murder occured in front of their common room.

a bit reaching . . . potentially a joke . . .still what are you trying to suggest here?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:51 pm so who's mafia other than glorfindel and karavalenge

hmm would nutella point out partners...or just an observation? probably an observation? not sure

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:13 pm
I literally quoted the same comic tumblr as Kara, yet they're scum and I'm town? ??? ?????

The mindset was different though.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:24 pm [VOTE: Sonjei] aubergine

Hufflepuffs are wimps and he’s from a poor family.

*sneer*

I'm not crazy about jack either. He might be okay, but I don't like how he's roleplaying this vote.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:48 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:10 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:08 pm So who’s going to ask Glorfindel if he’s bad?
Nobody do that shit. Let the man play the way he wants to play.

This will not appear in this game again.
Nobody is telling Glorfindel how to play.

ColinisAddressing others on how they will address Glorfindel, which is perfectly valid.

Does Epi usually give a summary of what everyone is doing? Or should I suspect that he's just trying to look like he's doing stuff?

Or would Quin be with Epi? hmm

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:31 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:04 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:02 pm
So you are voting DH because he was a civilian in the a completely different game and you suspected him there?
I have my reasons, or it could be DH just reads scummy each game. (that could be a thing; I would need to have played more games with him to test this theory).

But I think he's being different.
So Owner, I am reading through your posts and I didn't see any further explanation but my apologies if you've already answered this. You say:
1. You "have your reasons" - so what are those reasons?
OR
2. DH reads scummy in every game but you haven't played enough games with him to know (I personally don't think he reads scummy here)
OR
3. You think he's being "different". Different from what? The game you played with him where you thought he was scummy but he was civ? What differences do you see and are you talking about differences from Firefly or some other game? If it's another game what game is that?

I know people have already commented about your suspecting DH for his play in another game where you thought he was bad but he was really civ, but I'll just add to the comments anyway: if you have other reasons (item number 1) please state them because the reasons you give here don't make a lot of sense to me. If you've already stated what "my reasons" are just point me to that post.

No one is gonna lynch him today even if I state my reasons, that has become perfectly clear.

This is my 2nd game with DH. Certain behaviors, I'll find scummy most of the time. I'm not sure if they are alignment indicative, but working to figure out what the edges of his meta look like.

He's being different from last game where he was town that game. But not everyone plays the same way game to game. I figuring out how far it stretches.

There are a few instances where DH is approaching the situation as I should know better. As if I someone is silently saying are you really gonna play this way again? Which, I've run into in the past when I have tunneled others, but it's difficult to know if someone is still within a particular meta.

If I'm alive, DH gets a fresh look at tomorrow based on the posts he makes tomorrow.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:18 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:06 pmMy comment was that we are not mafia partners because I like to discuss things with my mafia teammates, and I "spoiled" something for juliets (even though I PUT THE DAMN THING IN SPOILER TAGS), so we are not bad together in BTSC.
This logic seems unsound. Do you mean that you pre-discuss everything you say in the thread with your teammates when you're bad?
There isn't any logic to it. I've been bad with juliets before, and juliets loves chat (see: discord). We would have been talking this stuff up, and juliets asks questions about things even when bad.

So my point is this:

juliets and I are not bad teammates together.

Use that. Work with it. Bye.
Geez. Okay. Sorry I asked.
I wasn't aiming to be rude. I thought all the cool kids said "Bye" at the end of their posts, indicating they had summed up their points.

I didn't mean to offend by initiating shitty cultural norms.

Is Epi being appeasing a good thing? Like is he generally a helpful scum or not really?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:33 pm Get Nutella first then look at Soneji and maybe Lonely Heart still. Why do you muggles insist on calling her Owner, what kind of thoughtless nickname is that. Always a pleasure to be mislynched by your friends So reads the last will and testament of Turnip Head.

Why do you sound desperate?

*puts on music to start getting ready for game night*

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:06 pm If TH is good, Owner still deserves scrutiny. If Owner is bad, check TH’s wagon.

Even though I didn't vote there...hmm. It's kind of funny how one-sided this is.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:10 pm It was 5-4 after Soneji's vote for me, Kylemii tied it up and then LC broke the tie.

This is correct. I think we were still tied at 5 at 3:33-3:34.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:12 pm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:10 pm It was 5-4 after Soneji's vote for me, Kylemii tied it up and then LC broke the tie.
Okay, yeah, probably 4

It was 5.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:13 pm Don't give OoaLH a free pass for no self-preservation imo, tis a dangerous assumption and she has allies if she's bad.

The key word being "if" here.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 pm Mafia:

Owner
Lunalee
JJJ

That's a player antipasto.

Going from that you are suggesting that Luna was trying to hard bus me today? I would say try again dear sir.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:34 pm @Owner of a Lonely Heart, why were you saying I changed my vote late in Day 1, as if to rescue you? I was nowhere near this game thread and my vote had been on TH for over 24 hours. Indeed when you said that I was in the midst of a four hour drive.

Your vote was the last one in the list of names in the votes at the current time.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:51 pm Good:
Epignosis
timmer
DH
INH
Poutanko
Quin
Karavalenge
Jack

Wary:
Kyle
Glorf
Juliets
Long Con
Lunalee
Speedchuck

Shit List:
JJJ
Bullzeye
Owner
Soneji
Mac
Nutella

N/A:
lapluie
Nova

Why are poutanko and Karavalenge good?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?

Quin, I think. I just remember you being the 4th one in the list and tying up the votes at 4.

I think Colin is scum. Even before the flip, he was setting this up.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:06 pm If TH is good, Owner still deserves scrutiny. If Owner is bad, check TH’s wagon.

He read me town for a little bit, but the instant things started going south for me he quickly did what felt like a 180 to me and pushed for my lynch.

Or basically, this whole if-then situation is particularly bad when both wagons are positioned on good players, which I feel like Colin knows this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:47 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:41 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Where was my vote before TH when you observed a change in my vote?
Quin, I think. I just remember you being the 4th one in the list and tying up the votes at 4.
I was the 2nd vote for TH, and at the time I don’t believe you had more than one vote.

I wasn’t around, and you made it look as though I’d dropped in to try to save you. I believe @juliets at least was fooled by that portrayal. And if you’re a mafioso, in this effort you have attempted to glue me to you, as your “partner” (in the eyes of any clueless civilians trying to interpret events) who wanted TH lynched merely to keep you alive. It’s entirely false.

I am not pleased.

I thought you did save me. But I guess it would have been someone else. I'm not trying to set up anything false. Also, if I was mafia, I'm generally more clever than that. Why would I need to tie myself to you when you were also up to be lynched at one point during this day?

JJJ, do wagons usually form quickly on scum in your experience?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:59 pm Lynching anybody Day 1 always feels bad and everyone seems so happy to be here. Soneji almost never shows up to play so I'ma vote there for now.

*oh the irony*

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:02 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm JJJ, do wagons usually form quickly on scum in your experience?
I don’t think I can speak to trends about wagon acceleration per alignment. Conventional wisdom seems to be that mafia wagons encounter more resistance and thus grow slower, but I don’t know that that’s actually true.

Why? What is the importance of this question?

I accumulated 3 votes pretty quickly, but it sounds like this sort of stat doesn't mean much to you. Colin still wants me to be looked at even though I didn't self-pres when I could have.

I didn't have a strong reason to vote for TH so didn't vote there. I guess this is where I'm at right now.

Town
Long Con
Juliets
Glorfindel
nutella

Slight Town
DH
Quin
Soneji
speedy
timmer
Epi

Null
JJJ
Kyle
insertnamehere
Mac
Jack
Bullzeye

Scum team so far
ColinisCool
karavalenge
Lunalee
Poutanko

*tries to relax*

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:30 pm Owner can you please expand briefly on those four scum reads, or direct me to already existing explanations

Colin and Luna both read me town, but then also voted for me. Both of them seem opportunistic.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:49 pm I think Colin is scum. Even before the flip, he was setting this up.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:06 pm If TH is good, Owner still deserves scrutiny. If Owner is bad, check TH’s wagon.
He read me town for a little bit, but the instant things started going south for me he quickly did what felt like a 180 to me and pushed for my lynch.

Or basically, this whole if-then situation is particularly bad when both wagons are positioned on good players, which I feel like Colin knows this.

Luna had sort of a tunnel vision or was quick to think me asking what changed Colin's mind meant in her mind that I was asking where I went wrong.

I guess imo it feels like they weren't truly reading me as town to begin with. Or how else could they make the leap to vote for me?

Kara is picture tell read.

Poutanko is lacking activity or vocal presence in the thread. Town!poutanko felt very noticeable to me in past games. She just appears to be different. Also the popcorn emote is sometimes associated with scum watching town destroy each other.

As for players saying that I dodged questions, I would say Maslow's hierarchy of needs does apply here. (aka if I don't feel comfortable I'm not going to share stuff as I don't feel people will take me either seriously or won't view my potential insight as potentially important.)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 pm SORRY HAVENT HAD MY COFFEE YET LOL

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:44 pm I am unfamiliar with a “picture tell”

I read pictures and songs and determine whether it comes from a townie mindset or scummy one. Sometimes there are null ones which account for your personality, like DH with his Negan stuff or I sometimes do Loki grins.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:40 am
I didn’t vote for you.

My mistake:

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:59 pm Still want to lynch 3J, but Owner isn’t a bad call either.

You suggested that my lynch would be a good one. That's around the time votes started piling on me. Both inh and timmer voted me soon thereafter by the looks of things.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:07 am
The reason I thought is was strange that Owner lists you as "null" was because she seemed to have opinions on everyone else she interacted with except you.
Those were my thoughts, and admittedly I threw out my "gut read" post without a ton of thought, but it was close to EOD, and I thought it might be useful for discussion.

I'm supposed to have more opinions on the guy who barely posted all day and grinded me cause I thought he stopped by? But because of the poll system, you can't just view the votes in order oh no you have to look at the thread and hope players let you know when they voted and how many votes there were when they voted.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:46 pm Just to be clear my stance has not been, will not be, and is not "Owner is bad at mafia" or "Owner is a bad player" or anything close. My stance is "Build your evidence and your cases based on this game, the game you're in right now, and be consistent with what you say and do."

- Vaguely Meta-Reading me based on 1 incorrect game is frustrating but not on the whole baddie indicative.
- Basing *this games* suspicion on that meta-read is.
- Not answering questions that are posed to you is.
- I don't like the Kara Picture Tell Read thing, because it is inconsistent with what you've told me Picture Tell is supposed to mean. Not to mention the whole concept is complete voodoo astrology nonsense.

I did answer questions, whether or not you like the response or choose to accept my answer is other thing entirely. What did I tell the picture tell was?

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:52 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:40 pm And why is Kara posting 1 picture of a good guy a "Picture Tell" and Poutanko going out of her way to post several offsite emotes not "picture tell"
Owner said mine was not picture tell but my popcorn emoji is

No, that's not a picture tell. That falls under a different tell.

I guess one might call it the popcorn eating tell.

I'll be gone a good bit of today. I'll post again when I'm home.

karavalenge wrote: ↑Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:53 am
Spoiler: show

Who is ready to learn?

The part I'm most interested in this picture tell is this part:

"Well that's too bad because I wrapped your knowledge in teeth and fear."

Hagrid is generally friendly, but even in this sense he's like "too bad no can do"

In this picture, Hagrid is acting selfish/not caring about others.

Even though Hagrid as a character is seen as good, that does not account for the picture I'm directing you to, where it seems as though Hagrid is betraying his students.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:03 pm I apologize if this has been litigated and I missed it (if so please point it out) but:

1. In Firefly Mafia, Owner scum read me in part based on a "Picture Tell" in which she said I subconciously associated with Negan and Thanos, two bad characters. Therefore I must be bad.

2. In this game, Owner scum read Kara based on a picture tell of Kara posting a Hagrid-themed comic strip. Hagrid is a good guy.

My point being, if in Firefly Owner (civ) Genuinely suspected me (civ) for being Negan/Thanos (bad dudes) that's fine because as wrong as it was, it tracks and makes sense if you accept the "Picture Tell" premise. If you accept that same premise and apply it to her Kara suspicion, its fake. She fabricated a reason to suspect Kara and the only reason to do that is if you're bad and need people to suspect.

Slam. Dunk.

1. I went onto say this game that Negan for you falls under your personality. Regardless of alignment, you might very well post a Negan photo. But if I'm comparing this game to last game, you have posted significantly less Negan pictures in this game as compared to Firefly (where you were town that game).

2. Hagrid is not acting like a good guy in the comic strip in question.

The suspicion isn't fake.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:43 pm Y'all keep talking about Owner and this picture tell thing, and referencing Firefly without directly speaking to whatever connection may exist. So I allowed myself to be myself at least long enough to do your homework for you.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:06 pm I didn't say mafia; I said scum. And for those wondering usually, I count 3p as scum. But do you guys ever get friendly 3p over here?

Tell 1: The Picture/Gif Tell (can also sometimes be called the music tell, as I use it on both pictures and music. Yes, I have in fact caught scum this way before.

DharmaHelper has used multiple Negan pictures. Subconsciously, I feel like people post pictures of villains see themselves as being the bad guys themselves. I actually did not finish watching The Walking Dead. I didn't really like Negan. Maybe if I gave him another shot he would turn out to be an alright guy, but my first impression of him made me stop watching the show. So at first, I didn't really think all too much about the Negan pictures as is it really right for me to judge Negan as I didn't take time to get to know him? But then DharmaHelper also posted a picture of Thanos. So either personally, DharmaHelper can easily relate himself to those 2 characters or subconsciously he's bad so he posts pictures of villains.
This post comes from Firefly. Do not interpret it as being a post from Hogwarts, because it is from Firefly. K.

The two highlighted portions are of interest. The picture tell is stated in somewhat general terms first, and then Owner expands to discuss the nature of DH's villanous pictures as being a potential indicator of trouble. It is unclear from this whether the picture tell as Owner knows it requires villanous content to work or if this example simply featured villanous images which fed into the story Owner developed in her read of DH.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart, does the picture tell require villains to function? You said in Firefly that you've caught scum this way before -- can you remember an example game, and on what site[mention]Owner of a[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention]

It does not require villains to function. Kara's picture tell is based off of Hagrid's actions or portrayal of betrayal. My 2nd forum game ever a guy posted batman and joker gifs as much as DH posts Negan. I was cop and checked him; he happened to be scum. I might have gotten lucky that time. In the Angels of Ulennia game that I mentioned earlier that both myself and Soneji played in, I caught someone as scum based off of them posting the Kill la Kill Ragyo Kiryuin theme. Soneji died early that game, so probably won't remember it as it wasn't directly related to him as we were both indies that game.

Unfortunately, I have a family emergency. I ask for a replacement. @Dragon D Luffy @duyna

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