The Syndicate

Hello again to one and all!
I don't care 'bout jiggy-stacking
25 posts is enough to ball.
The game is on; now let's get cracking!

Linki: Boooooo MP breaking the rhyming streak! Poor form.

At risk of sounding overly simplistic, role claiming and infodumping are allowed, and "the mafia have been given safe character claims drawn at random from a larger pool of possible civilian characters." So come Day 1, should we all just say our roles, then vote to lynch from among the roles that people double-claim?

Also, hard aree with sig on this: "Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more."

Wow, I just noticed posts are numbered now. This is a whole new world, gang.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:05 pm What rhymes with mafia?

Offin' ya?

Sloth in the...

Bothan, bruh

trough say wha?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 1.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:59 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm Hey all, just checking in for now. Preoccupied with other items for the duration. Looking forward to playing this despite this post count limitation putting me in shackles.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:31 ami feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts so i would vote epi out before mp.

You might know this already, but Epi is literally an English teacher irl. So I would kind of expect him to sounds like that as a default. I get that you think it weaken's his case on MP, but it doesn't necessarily make me read Epi as bad. Especially with schools being out, he's gotta find an outlet.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:05 pm

Post count ceilings for Day 1:

26 - Dragon D. Luffy
28 - dunya
34 - Epignosis
26 - G-Man
29 - M Plus 7
28 - MacDougall
30 - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
30 - nutella
29 - Russtifinko
28 - sig
31 - Sloonei
26 - speedchuck
29 - TonyStarkPrime
28 - Turnip Head

Jiggy pursuits are now underway, and your 4-liners actually count.

I am an idiot - should have realized this way sooner. It looks like however many posts we made on D0 got added to our D1 totals. So for example, I posted 4 times on D0 so got 25+4 to work with today. Epi posted 9 times D0, so gets 25+9 today.

This makes my point from earlier even more relevant - "wasting" posts on D0 is actually a good thing and not just neutral, but wasting posts D1 is still bad. I don't mean that in an alignment sense, necessarily - I mean it just gives you more/less agency in the game.

For now I'm satisifed with Sloonei's response to my question about his sig vote. I can see a world where it's a baddie backing off an early push, so will keep an eye there, but downgrading my read from "super bad" to "mildly bad".

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 1:34 pm

Spoiler: show

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:51 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 1.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:59 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm Hey all, just checking in for now. Preoccupied with other items for the duration. Looking forward to playing this despite this post count limitation putting me in shackles.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

I don't entirely understand why you think it's a bad look for Sloonei -- is it because you disagree with it?

What makes you feel like Epi is genuinely scumhunting there? I don't disagree even, but what about it indicates to you that he's trying to assess my alignment?

How is the Omerta thing a decent point exactly? I hardly remember what actually happened in that game, except for I was scum. Then, thinking on it, I thought I recalled us not having a hard time in that game, but other than that my memory is pretty fuzzy about it. Regardless, why would that be a point towards my alignment here? That's what I think I don't understand.

My read on Sloonei wasn't just because I disagreed with the sig case, it was the way he presented it - made a case, placed a vote to get things going, then jumped off when 2 people joined. It seemed waffly and I could imagine a baddie thought process of "I'll subtly start a sig lynch here....wait it gained steam too fast....I don't wanna get revenge lynched D2, better distance."

However, like I said, Sloonei's explanation of a civ poking and being scared off by the momentum made sense to me, so downgraded to mildly bad.


As for Epi, this reads like classic civ Epi to me - he's playing super aggressive, making big cases on D1 when there's relatively little to go on, and playing with confidence. I guess the fact that I didn't fully agree with his case made me feel better about him, weirdly, because I'm used to him having more aggressive/confident reads than me from past games.

As far as Omerta, how long ago was it? To me, the point is more salient if the game happened very recently. If it was like 2 years ago I consider it basically worthless. If you should reasonably be expected to remember the results of the game and don't, it could mean you were lying, which would lend credence to you being bad here if you were bad there and expressed a similar sentiment. Overall, I'm not convinced you're bad by this case either way, but the Omerta thing is the only way I could see myself agreeing with it even partially.


Epi, for the record, I don't think you were being pedantic with MP. I was addressing dunya where she seemed to be in reading it and didn't clearly say that didn't match my read. Sorry.


Speaking of wasting posts, dunya just posted 5 times in a row - maybe combine those all into one? Also, I agree with this:

sig wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:06 pm Dunya is clearing mp way to quickly

To state this even more strongly - dunya's 5th post of the game started with "oh cool, town mp is on my team. that's a relief." I have a slight town read on MP right now, but it's D1 and you're willing to 100% clear him? I remember MP's meta being that he's slightly more likely to read people as town if they read him as town, and given that he was already gettign some cred from Sloonei eariler, it seems like dunya may be trying to get in his good graces here. Dunya, maybe explain a little better why you think MP is bona fide 100% civvie?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:53 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pm I do not agree that my treatment of MP was pedantic in the least (which is what the description implies). The meat of my accusation against MP was him complaining about posts and not doing anything about acquiring more posts. Then I realized I read everything about Day 0 the wrong way and it would appear I wasn't alone.

i hate this. you're trying to downplay the lack of basis for your case by saying "but everyone else thought the same, so i'm not odd, i'm not different, i'm just like the rest of you" bad.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pmThe problem I have here is the implication that "Epi vs MP" is something that needs to be "solved" as it were. Phrasing like this paves the road for "Well, Epi is dead. He was a civilian. We need to assess MP more strongly now."

no, i've literally given MP a town read, so try to set another narrative for me please.

dunya, can you clarify more why you "hate" Epi's interpretation of the D0-D1 post count rules? It sounds like a vast proportion of the players misunderstood them, and when he realized he had, he immediately backed off and said it blew up his case. I could see this being more of "attack anyone who attacks MP to get in his good graces" like what I mentioned above.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:23 pm dunya seems her typical self
but she's not firmly on my town shelf
because I know she can be wily scum
but she's not under my voting thumb

Does anyone have some berries and whipped cream I can put on this waffle?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 7:13 pm

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:05 pm

Post count ceilings for Day 1:

26 - Dragon D. Luffy
28 - dunya
34 - Epignosis
26 - G-Man
29 - M Plus 7
28 - MacDougall
30 - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
30 - nutella
29 - Russtifinko
28 - sig
31 - Sloonei
26 - speedchuck
29 - TonyStarkPrime
28 - Turnip Head

Jiggy pursuits are now underway, and your 4-liners actually count.

I believe it is that I have greatly misunderstood the nature of Day 0. I was under the impression that Day 0 gave us 25 posts and that Day 1 gave us 25 new posts. Doing the math here implies that wasn't the case. Mac's accusation against me (that I'm burning through posts when I only made two Day 1 posts) implies that he was under (what I assume to be) the correct interpretation.

I would think that someone would be kind enough to use one of his or her posts to inform me of my faulty thinking vis-à-vis my accusation of M Plus 7. This correction never came from anybody (TH and nutella even joined me). However. maybe it also is that others were making the same incorrect assumption.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:51 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 1.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:59 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm Hey all, just checking in for now. Preoccupied with other items for the duration. Looking forward to playing this despite this post count limitation putting me in shackles.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

The enlarged either means that Russ is believing the same thing I was regarding Day 0, or he's being willfully ignorant here. I lean the former.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:56 am You’re talking wack, son
I’ve got like 20+ posts left
I’m barely a quarter done
I won’t leave you missing me and bereft

My vote is the best one
And I don’t wanna hear no beef
Pretending my reads are good is fun
So stop fighting it and hop on my scum killing leaf


(8)

The same thing applies here. At this point, Nanook had eight posts, which would mean "20+ posts left" isn't true. If counting started at Day 0, Nanook has 12 left (he currently has 13 posts).

dunya commented, but her response was independent of my accusing MP about the post count restriction.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 12:44 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:31 ami feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts so i would vote epi out before mp.

You might know this already, but Epi is literally an English teacher irl. So I would kind of expect him to sounds like that as a default. I get that you think it weaken's his case on MP, but it doesn't necessarily make me read Epi as bad. Especially with schools being out, he's gotta find an outlet.

"I would vote Epi out before MP" is a strange conclusion to "i feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts."

I do not agree that my treatment of MP was pedantic in the least (which is what the description implies). The meat of my accusation against MP was him complaining about posts and not doing anything about acquiring more posts. Then I realized I read everything about Day 0 the wrong way and it would appear I wasn't alone.

The problem I have here is the implication that "Epi vs MP" is something that needs to be "solved" as it were. Phrasing like this paves the road for "Well, Epi is dead. He was a civilian. We need to assess MP more strongly now."

That post reeks to me. [VOTE: dunya] aubergine

Anyway, this revelation on my end makes MP's reaction (one of bafflement) sensible. It doesn't tell me anything about his alignment on its own, but it at least makes sense.

Ohh, that makes a lot more sense now, Epi, so thank you. See, I assumed from the get-go that we had 25 on Day 0, then it reset to a separate 25 (or, in this case Jay's updated things) on Day 1, and so I was posting considering that fact.

Also, @Russtifinko, I won't quote your long post, but Omerta was years ago, I couldn't even remember so I just checked -- May-June 2015.

As for my thoughts on dunya, the jury's out I think, and I'm going to have to wait and see more. It's within her modus operandi to make strong reads on Day 1. I'd still put her at slight town for whatever my opinion of her is worth.

As for whether people post in giant posts or multiple times in a row, I'm not sure anyone would think that doing the latter is a scum strategy? But perhaps I'm wrong there

Ok. Since Omerta was that long ago, I think Epi's case on you is bunk. As far as posting multiple times in a row , my theory is this: a scum player could conceivably use up their posts early in the Day, then say, "Aww shucks guys, I'm out of posts. Too bad I can't give reads or help y'all ctach baddies as the final votes come in." Civs will absolutely want to be able to be in the discussion throughout the day and save posts accordingly.

MP, is your slight town read on duyna purely gut-based? She's my strongest suspect right now, so if there's a good reason to change that I'd like to hear it.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:17 pm Yall are overthinking the post count thing holy shit

Everyone has 25 posts for Day 1

The Day 0 posts don't matter

Jay was posting our post counts as reference so he could see when someone's total would show that they had posted 25 times on Day 1

Jesus.

I think this is wrong....what use would it be to use to show our eventual hypothetical post counts?? I'm 99% sure JJJ told us the D1 post limit each player has, which was influenced by post count on D0. Maybe our host can weigh in to clarify his previous post so we're all on the same page?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 11:50 am Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:31 am

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm Speaking of wasting posts, dunya just posted 5 times in a row - maybe combine those all into one?

so? they were all relevant as they came up. and combining posts on my phone is not possible, i can only do it on my laptop. and i'm not worried about post count, there's lots of townies here and no one wants to be washed out by someone who makes newspaper posts every time they post. even 1 good to-the-point post is worth a lot more than ramblings and echos that everyone has already discussed or said. this game gives a chance for everyone to do their part and chip in and be heard so don't expect newspapers more than once a day.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pmTo state this even more strongly - dunya's 5th post of the game started with "oh cool, town mp is on my team. that's a relief." I have a slight town read on MP right now, but it's D1 and you're willing to 100% clear him? I remember MP's meta being that he's slightly more likely to read people as town if they read him as town, and given that he was already gettign some cred from Sloonei eariler, it seems like dunya may be trying to get in his good graces here. Dunya, maybe explain a little better why you think MP is bona fide 100% civvie?

who said i 100% towncleared him? who said i can't pass out town reads and take them away when they prove to be wrong? who said this? who makes those rules? this is how i play. my strategy is forming as many town reads as i can. it's the most effective way to hunt for scum, because paranoia makes everyone look scummy, even genuine townies. when i can't find town in someone, then you worry.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm dunya, can you clarify more why you "hate" Epi's interpretation of the D0-D1 post count rules? It sounds like a vast proportion of the players misunderstood them, and when he realized he had, he immediately backed off and said it blew up his case.

because his case used things like "MP complaining about counting votes, but he's an accounting professor, so fake!" -- that's so incredibly silly and i felt like it was a built-up strawman case with points added just to amplify the number of words on the case.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pmI could see this being more of "attack anyone who attacks MP to get in his good graces" like what I mentioned above.

why do i care in the least to be in MP's good graces? is that what you're doing with your very wishy washy "why is dunya giving MP towncred" but adding a quick disclaimer that "he's town for me too!" lol. hypocricy much? who cares if i say slight, much, a little before i say town?

if anything your posts about MP and me reeks of tmi as though you know for certain MP is town and trying to spin the narrative that i'm trying to pocket him. very bad look for you.

OMGUS much?

Obviously the angle I see where you're bad is predicated on MP being good - but you're the one saying you're absolutely certain beyond any shred of doubt that MP is town (see bolded above). No one held a gun to your head and made you say that. If you somewhere said (before this post) that it was possible you're wrong on him, your opinion could change, etc, then please point me to it because I missed it. What I see is this:

1) You say MP is 100% cleared town, for no reason I can discern.
2) You start buddying MP.
3) You OMGUS me when I call you on it.

I'm voting Dunya. I know a couple people are townreading her on gut, but no one's given a better explanation than that, so I don't currently see any points in her favor. (idk how this aubergine thing works)

To further clarify on dunya, this is similar to the dunya/Epi thing earlier. I didn't mean to imply Epi was being pedantic myself. I was operating from within dunya's assertion that he was. Holding it true that Epi was being pedantic, I was supplying an explanation for it that wasn't alignment-indicative. I also am not saying I have MP towncleared, but I am addressing dunya's behavior using her own standpoint that he is. Again holding that true, dunya's actions look very bad to me.

Also, big ups to JJJ for clearing up the post count thing.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:34 pm @Russtifinko russti, i'm gonna peg this down to: you don't know my play style and i don't know yours. me town reading a lot of people is very normal. if you'd like to check my town game, have a look and see for yourself. saying "ok cool mps on my team" is a fun way of saying MP is a town read. i don't have to always add adjectives before town to indicate the level of towniness. i saw town mp and mentioned it. that's the bottom of it. i don't care if you're voting for me for this reason, and this is the last i'll talk about it. you're free to review my past town games for comparison to see how i do this in like, every game i've ever played in.

also unfortunately end of day is 11pm my time and i'm unavailable from 9pm until like 10.45. go figure the first time ever i have a reasonable end of day it sucks for me. i'm still around for 15 minutes, but feel pretty good about my mcdougall vote tbh. nothing he said inspired confidence in me he was town, felt like the hole he was digging got bigger and bigger.

dunya, totally agree we could be misunderstanding each other. But IMO, you OMGUSing me and then when I came back at you immediately dropping the OMGUS and writing about the person with the most votes is pingy as all hell. My issue isn't that you're town reading people, it's that you cozied up to MP after townreading him. As I said, my memory of his meta is that he's a little susceptible to that, at least early (no offense MP). He's also usually a forceful town voice, so if I were a baddie, I'd damn sure want to be his friend. So this is very specifically aboutt he interaction between the two of you, and then your reaction to me pointing it out, rather than some problem with your approach to the game of mafia.

I'll try to keep an open mind about this, especially since 4-5 people seem to feel good about you, but I think at every stage your reaction has looked worse and worse to me. I would love others to weigh in on if they see her moves the same way I do or what (beyond 'gut') makes anyone think she's not a good candidate.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:38 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:17 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 11:50 am Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

I would say you've misunderstood my intent here Russti. I'm telling Mac that if he's town I'm here to solve the game together. Surely he can see the merit in that plan.

Ok, fair enough. Your other posts ping me though:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 11:32 am It's establishing pressure Mr. Dougall. So what if I sheeped reads? I wanted to see where they led. I still maintain my own opinions as evidenced by my unvotes.

You're entrenching your read of me by characterizing my play in the way you are. I think your other reads look like a scummer's reads; I think your suspicion of me in particular is opportunistic.

I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

Lack of accountability is the primary tool baddies use to get out of being lynched the longer a game goes. The more i read this, the more it sounds like TH is explaining baddie moves but saying they're civ moves.

TH is now my #2 suspect, and I would change my vote to him if it will matter in the final poll. I still prefer dunya though.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:58 pm (17)

smh @ mac recklessly hitting his post cap. RIP. He's town.

I'm not inspired by TH's responses to Mac. I get that TH has been "misunderstood" as a townie before but I don't get nearly the same sense from them this game that I often do. Their reads feel much more.. idk, manufactured somehow. maybe I'm just not following their godlike intuitive thought processes, but I feel so strongly that they're wrong about Mac that I'm not inclined to believe it's a real read.

I feel the opposite: to me that's pingy. Especially considering he seems to be a candidate for lynch today and a lot of his recent posts were short. I was reading Mac's scumhunting efforts today as sincere and don't understand why he's seemingly being punished for posting comprehensive reads - I thought that was what we're supposed to be doing?? So I still wouldn't lynch him over this D1, but it's worth keeping in mind for the future assuming he survives.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:23 pm ++++

Russtifinko:

Glad to see the gentle giant. How are things? How is your wife?

Russ had the same thought I did about post counts. That likely means he would have had to continue to fake that interpretation if he were bad (I would assume this would have been discussed in BTSC if he genuinely didn't understand and was bad). At times Russ sounds like a politician, but I can overlook that for now. Would scrutinize more later.

I would not lynch Russtifinko today.

++++

Hey Epi! Good to be back! The wife is doing fine. We got a new nephew today!! Our first one. So that's been very exciting. Other than that, just bored with the lockdown, but things could be worse. How's your lovely family?

Also thanks for the thoughts re: dunya. That's the first positive thing I've heard on her that's anything more than gut, I'll try to take it into consideration.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:33 pm My time is running low I see
I don’t have much time though to rea-
d the things that have been said of me
why are we all voting for Mackie?

TSP, from what I can understand, it seems like people are voting Mac for posting rainbow reads. I sort of fail to understand it, since when I last played here those were super popular, and others have done those in this game and not been punished for it in the same way. As I see it, they establish accountability and give people an easy record to go back to for sussing out baddies.

I probably am not the best person to explain the case since I'm so confused by it, but there ya go. I think we have better things to go on for today.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pm I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

wow. i think we come from different mafia cultures for sure. first of all, if you look at TH's posts as they were made, you'll see that he hasn't been sheeping. i talked about this with mac. if we're not allowed to suspect anyone that someone has suspected before us at one point in this game, then we're in trouble, no? i don't think anyone shifts accountability, especially when TH has provided rationale when voting (maybe apart from his MP vote, which he unvoted). and unvotes are part of mafia for me, i don't know how that's scummy.

By TH's own admission he was sheeping, so you saying he wasn't here is....weird. I'm not even sure what it would indicate, so guess I just have to agree with you that our brains work VERY differently.

---------------------------------------

RIP Mac. Had been looking forward to a game with you after all this time, wish we could've been in it together longer.

I don't love that a lot of votes came on to Mac late in the phase. I'm pretty sure it's well-known that he's Australian and thus would be asleep, but more importantly, it was known that he was out of posts. Makes him an easy target for that sort of thing, and makes me instantly suspicious of those who jumped on late and/or to save sig, who also looks worse to me as a result.

Was G-Man the biggest catalyst? He's currently vote #4, which would've put Mac ahead, but I couldn't track how the votes went down in real time.

On a separate note, I think we should NOT publicly acknowledge when people are out of posts in the future. If there are gonna be more people like Mac who are easy lynch targets late in the day, we should at least make the baddies figure it out for themselves instead of putting targets on people's back for them.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 3:56 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:50 pm macdougall being saved. unimpressed, but will double down next phase.

linki: epi making it a tie! :o

Top 10 worst aging posts of 2020

This makes me think that if dunya is bad, sig likely is too and this was an attempt to save a teammate as sig was overtaking Mac. (At least I think that's how it worked, but apparently polls aren't being saved in this game. Can someone either point me to it or confirm?) However, it actually makes me feel slightly better about dunya. Calling this seems weird when there was a decent chance (at the time) she'd be proven wrong. I'd still lean scum on her, but less so, and now leaning scum on sig, particularly if I'm right on dunya.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 12:01 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 10:51 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:02 am I think it’s Epi, Sloonei, and Turnip.

i agree on sloonei now, and probably nutella. i don't know why epi voted for mac, maybe he did and i didn't see why. i'll check. but his switch from sig to mac put them tied, which is ok in my books. and it was gman who tipped the scale then sloonei came on board at some point.

Epi said he wouldn't vote for Mac, took a simple answer from Sig to get off Sig, voted for Mac (I think) without comment. It's not a complicated case, but I'm willing to run with it.
There are one or two points in Epi's favor.

As far as Sloonei goes, I have no way to judge how he's playing. He's based his play on a strategic element I disagree with the philosophy on. I think he's presenting it as a preemptive defense, but it's unclear.

The case on Epi as presented here doesn't look great. I also don't really love that dunya just says "i don't know why epi voted for mac, maybe he did and i didn't see why. i'll check. but his switch from sig to mac put them tied, which is ok in my books." It sounds to me like saying yes, there's a case on Epi, but then ignoring it because reasons.

I had a strong town gut reading on Epi before, and I think it's too optimistic to think that everyone who voted Mac was saving sig - no baddie team would give themselves all away like that so early. Maybe that's WIFOM, but oh well. So I'd say coming out of the vote, G-Man actually looks the worst to me. His vote was the one that put Mac ahead. I'd follow that with dunya, then Epi. All of that is predicated on sig being bad, though, and other than the lynch results I haven't seen anything on him that felt particularly alignment-indicative.

Here's my GTH:

Dragon D. Luffy: town
dunya: scum
Epignosis: town
G-Man: scum
M Plus 7: town
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME: town
nutella: town
Russtifinko: town
sig: scum
Sloonei: town
speedchuck: town
TonyStarkPrime: town
Turnip Head: scum

NANOOK was the hardest one here for me. Can anyone tell me if he plays a Vompatti style? It seems like it so far. I get the same sort of....lack of concern? if that's the right term, from TH, but really didn't like TH's posts about sheeping, which is why he ended up on the scum side.

Linki: RIP Epi. That NK makes me feel better about TSP - it doesn't make a lot of sense for a baddie to start casebuilding on a guy they're planning to NK.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:07 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 6:14 pm Vompatti is what we'd call a dadaist mafia player.

There is no obvious meaning to his posts. No direction or inherent logic.

You don't understand Vompatti, you experience Vompatti.

Nanook is fucking JaggedJimmyJay compared to Vompatti.

And yeah, this is Vompatti.

@Russtifinko, I wouldn't say he plays like Vompatti, but he does have a... Chaotic Neutral type of D&D alignment in terms of mafia play.

Vompatti is more like Chaotic Evil.

Thanks, this is helpful. This response in itself would make me feel worse about the intense rhyming, but given NANOOK's tone change today, I'm feeling better about him anyway. He's up from on-the-fence to at least mild civ for me.

Please don't @ me anymore - it does this weird thing where if I quote the post, my computer wants to autofill Russtifinko and delete part of my post if I hit the enter key, and I can't make it go away.

sig wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 12:45 pm Claiming is such a lame way to play. Especially when nanook isnt even claiming. Double that with claiming anything this early isn't sound strategy and since I didn't target anyone last night there couldn't have even been watching/tracking confusion.

It's a fake peek which nanook always says he wants to/has done.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:11 am

sig wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 pm SO a combination of factors effected my mafia read of MP.

Last game, which just ended with a mafia victory, the team included MP who had flipped civ, but was actually mafia. He reacted the same way there when I poked him as he did here and said I just hound him for no reason. I'm seeing the same game-play here and have the same gut feel.

Which is the main reason why I'm sticking to my guns here with my MP read.

Mac, rip was wrong there, not the end of the world. I do plan to reread some things, but overall alot of people are still just leans.

You do realize MP replaced someone else in that game and the one you poked was town, right?

You never interacted with scum MP that game.

Maybe check back on that game? Since he was mafia.

I do get why people are saying sig going after MP the way he has seems beyond the bounds of what a mafia would do, but this defense post just seems scummy af to me. He says claiming is lame, which, of course mafia would think that, and literally the #1 rule is that roleclaiming and infodumping are legal. If you didn't like that, you wouldn't have signed up for this game, so to complain about it now seems not genuine.

Minor thing here, but "not the end of the world" isn't the best reaction to a civ lynch I've seen, even if it is D1.

Sig also claims that NANOOK always says he wants to/has done a fake peek, which, what? A civ would never do that, and it would be a ballsy move for a baddie considering we can't be anywhere near LYLO yet. Also, he's saying DDL and MP are both lying about this other game. So sig, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you're saying that 1) you're not bad and also 2) NANOOK, DDL, and MP are all bad, and are all basically revealing themselves by lying to set you up for a mislynch on D2??? If I'm misunderstanding you there, and you see a way that civ NANOOK, DDL, or MP do that, let me know, but I just don't buy it. No way a baddie team gives up 3 members for one civ lynch on D2, especially if, as you say, you have no power.

Finally, where the claim comes from does seem pretty straightforward given DDL's point about jiggies, and another Page 1 rule says we can't share how we get bonus jiggies. So sig seems to be intentionally failing to understand that.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:51 am Doesn't Sig's treatment of MP make anyone else think sig is town because of it? Like why, as a scum accusing someone he would have to KNOW is town, would sig go after a guy using false logic about a different game and also run the risk of making it so heated and emotional and personal for both parties? Sig believes what he's saying or else he just simply wouldn't have bothered (as scum).

Nanook's red peek on sig, therefore and for other nanook-seems-sketchy related reasons, looks fake to me. Especially how he chose to present it with such a soft push. Using terms like "pretty likely" to be a red check gives him some breathing room if it turns out he's wrong.

TL;DR Sig's push on MP looks genuine. Nanook's push on sig looks fake.

If sig is indeed bad, TH is my top pick for a teammate. BTW, dunya was right about this:

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:26 am alright cool, we'll all lynch sig end of day. now can we play mafia cos im sure sig has teammates.

, since today seems relatively open-and-shut.

I would also peg G-man as a potential teamie, based pretty much solely on his D1 vote. My gut gives me some hesitation on that one, though, as does the fact that Epi was NK'ed: anyone else think it was really weird choice, given that Epi could've been expected to take a lot of heat for his D1 vote? He also had been attracting some attention D1 (on purpose, as we now know).

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

Oh, I forgot to point out that speedchuck spents 3 posts in a row above to basically waffle on and then soft defend sig. Not a good look IMO.

Hey the aubergine thing isn't as hard as I thought. Isn't it more of a teal, though?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm I don't remember which game it was, but I think there was an instance where town Sig lost a game on purpose to make a point about being against claiming. Or maybe it was someone else (this happens a lot in the other forum I play in). Correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is true it makes me paranoid, though. There is a good chance nanook is telling the truth but his info isn't really conclusive, and Sig is gonna self destruct to make a point anyway.

Notably Nanook also faked a red peek in a recent game (the baseball one), though that person happened to be indeed mafia But from what he's said here I believe he's not lying this time and he is admitting that his info might not be 100% reliable. But yeah you make a point that goes against Nanook's plan to policy-lynch sig for refusing to claim.

I've been known to take pretty hard-line stances against claiming and infodumping, too. But it's in the rules for this game, so to the extent it helps us, we might as well. We're at a disadvantage to begin with because of post count restrictions, so we should use every (legal) advantage we have.

I wouldn't call it a policy lynch, though. Even with NANOOK's admittedly not-certain infodump, I probably wouldn't vote sig today if that was the only thing against him. There's also yesterday's lynch vote, which looked like a save to me, and his reaction to this read, which has been to stubbornly not claim and then make a bunch of false statements.

G-Man, I'm gonna ISO both you and Sloonei, with as open a mind as possible, but I probably won't get around to it until tomorrow at least. He pinged me very early on, and you're now one of my top suspects. I do think it's a good look that he put so much detail into that ISO before anyone followed your advice to ISO him. I never think an OMGUS is super inspiring, but I'm probably giving a little more leeway on this one than I usually would since I do think D1 points to you being bad.

nutella thanks for the help with "@"! That was driving me insane.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 10:04 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:24 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm I don't remember which game it was, but I think there was an instance where town Sig lost a game on purpose to make a point about being against claiming. Or maybe it was someone else (this happens a lot in the other forum I play in). Correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is true it makes me paranoid, though. There is a good chance nanook is telling the truth but his info isn't really conclusive, and Sig is gonna self destruct to make a point anyway.

Notably Nanook also faked a red peek in a recent game (the baseball one), though that person happened to be indeed mafia But from what he's said here I believe he's not lying this time and he is admitting that his info might not be 100% reliable. But yeah you make a point that goes against Nanook's plan to policy-lynch sig for refusing to claim.

I've been known to take pretty hard-line stances against claiming and infodumping, too. But it's in the rules for this game, so to the extent it helps us, we might as well. We're at a disadvantage to begin with because of post count restrictions, so we should use every (legal) advantage we have.

I wouldn't call it a policy lynch, though. Even with NANOOK's admittedly not-certain infodump, I probably wouldn't vote sig today if that was the only thing against him. There's also yesterday's lynch vote, which looked like a save to me, and his reaction to this read, which has been to stubbornly not claim and then make a bunch of false statements.

G-Man, I'm gonna ISO both you and Sloonei, with as open a mind as possible, but I probably won't get around to it until tomorrow at least. He pinged me very early on, and you're now one of my top suspects. I do think it's a good look that he put so much detail into that ISO before anyone followed your advice to ISO him. I never think an OMGUS is super inspiring, but I'm probably giving a little more leeway on this one than I usually would since I do think D1 points to you being bad.

nutella thanks for the help with "@"! That was driving me insane.

You should have a good reason not to suspect me, but I am unclear who you are saying is OMGUSing here?

As far as I saw, G-Man came at you first, so that would make you the OMGUSer. However, as I said, I think G-Man is bad, so take that with a big grain of salt.

Also, I am notoriously bad at hints. What's the reason not to suspect you? (If I'm likely to come across it when I ISO you then you don't have to bother right now though.)

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 5:29 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 5:27 pm Eh guys the day locks in 30 minutes this low activity is officially scaring me now.

Yeah was just thinking this. I've been occupied with both spectating champs and some actual work stuff so I haven't been giving this game much attention but the dead air is making me anxious about sig.

Same. I joined this game largely because I figured it'd be manageable with the post count limits, but I expected more activity than this.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 2:23 pmwhat do you think of nutella's d1 vote?

I had been more focused on sig, Epi, and G-Man as the most likely baddies after Mac's flip, and nutella is one of the people who's left the least impression on me this game. I'll give her an ISO in addition to G-Man and Sloonei.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 2:47 pm yes, as i said in my multiquote post (yay), his reaction of silence is one i scum lean on at this point.

i had a big town-lean on him before this stuff with nanook tbh but maybe for unethical, angle-shooting reasons.

Would you mind elaborating here on "unethical, angle-shooting reasons"?

Linki: DDL, given that you prefer not to lynch sig today: if you were King of the Thread today and could direct people to lynch anyone you wanted, who would you choose and why?

Alright, re-reading G-Man first since Sloonei has been posting a lot today and I don't feel like all that.

Doing this with fresh eyes, and trying to think through the context at the time as well.
First two non-rhyme posts of the day. I don't like that they come 3 hours before the end of D1, but I do like that they contain a lot of opinions on other players. The change on Mac is notable: it goes from "presumptuous but not unlike Mac" to "low-hanging fruit".

Also worth noting is I'm one of his top town reads. This makes me feel worse than before: it's possible his read on me was influencing the positive gut feels I had on him prior to the lynch result.
Switches to sig 15min later, 20min before EOD. Looks like possible distancing. Similar to Mac, goes from a slight negative ping to a vote pretty quickly.
Switches back, and apparently not for game-related reasons. Places the most influential vote aside from Epi.
This post doesn't help in my assessment of G-Man particularly, but it made me realize how hard NANOOK was after sig even D1, which I somehow had missed. I guess that makes sense given that he targeted sig N1, but he didn't really give a reason at the time. NANOOK, given that your early posts are all rhymes, would you give me a hand and let me know the root of your sig suspicion?
Asks sig these questions, but never really follows up on them. G-Man, were you asking these questions to assess sig, or to form more general opinions on thread activity?
Does eventually post GTH reads. Others have said they don't like that he was initially game for this but then held off. I do get that changing his mind doesn't look amazing and that holding off goes against the point of GTH, but I agree with the logic of not giving the baddies an easy civ kill, and to me the fact that he posted them is something of a mitigating factor.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:21 pm Piling onto sig feels lame so early in the phase.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Sprinkled throughout his posts is quite a bit of pondering how baddies might strategically approach this game. More than once did I think he was more concerned with that than analyzing the game happening right in front of him. I will have to go back and look for specific examples.

Would you, could you, fuel the fire
Of dear old Sloonei’s funeral pyre?
ISO him for yourself and see
If you might, perchance, agree with me.

This is his only post on D2 (other than the GTH, which it sounds like he intended to post at the end of N1). He says Sloonei looks bad for figuring out how baddies would play, says he's going to look for examples, and never comes back with any examples. He also doesn't really push for others to vote for Sloonei or not vote for sig, despite saying the sig train is lame. His rhyme basically asks people to build a case on Sloonei for him, which he has to know people won't do, especially since he hasn't really given them anything to go on here. Independent of the D1 results, this is the only thing that truly influences my read of G-Man one way or another, and I don't think it's a good look. Of course, I haven't done my Sloonei ISO yet, and it's possible there's something there, but even if that's the case, this way of pointing to it seems at best lukewarm.


Lots of linki: RIP sig. It double-sucks that we boht mislynched you and ruined the game for you so bad you didn't defend.

So NANOOK's read was at best unreliable as he himself admitted, or at worst a lie. NANOOK, if you could answer my question above about why you were originally onto sig, I think that would help me determine which I think it is.

DDL, to clarify, you're saying that since sig flipped civ, you think TH was setting you up for a D3 lynch in his posts above? DDL and TH, are you each other's biggest suspects right now? TH, you said you were "the one person driving discussion (besides Sloonei)" today. Can you point me to where exactly you tried to rally people around something else, as opposed to saying not to lynch sig and to doubt NANOOK?

Double extra bonus linki: Yay for polls being posted! And TH, I would also appreciate if you could post any non-sig, NANOOK, or DDL reads.

Triple linki: of course now I can't post.....what happened to thread being slow?

I will be ISOing Sloonei and nutella as promised, but not today. I am tired from working and doing my first ISO.

Also, I forgot to post my conclusion on G-Man: based on the sig flip, most of my bad feelings about him disappear. I think the last post he made, early in D2, is pingy, as is the fact that he did nothing else all day. Other than that there's basically nothing to go on, though, so I'd give him a mild bad read, but probably not one I'd want to pursue D3.

Linki: TH, argue with DDL all you want about how to play the game. You guys are fighting and I get that. But is it really unreasonable for me (or anyone for that matter) to ask you to make some contribution, whatever it may be, no matter how small, to trying to find baddies? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not what you signed up for?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:11 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm

this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.

I don't think that's what happened. Or at least, I never considered sig to be "in the bag." I viewed nanook's claim as a play to get sig talking. sig's response was to not talk. That is why I was on board with the lynch.

Same here. I want to be really careful in my language here, because it's clear that tensions are running high for a number of people in the thread. There are 2 separate things going on here: (1) people trying to relax and have a good time together during a pretty terrible time, and (2) people trying to win mafia. When I say this next part, I am talking only about the "trying to win a game of mafia" part of that. I am not trying to say that I think sig in any way is a bad person, was "playing the game wrong", or anything of that nature. Objective #1, the "having a good time" part of this, is by far the most important part, which is why JJJ put it as his #1 rule for the entire game.



Again, speaking purely from a game-solving perspective. Yes, NANOOK claimed he had a red read on sig. That obviously sucks for sig, but in a game of mafia, there are ways to argue the point, especially since NANOOK himself admitted the read could be wrong. One could OMGUS NANOOK, one could argue that although the read looks bad, their thread contributions so far should outweigh it, etc. Sig did not choose to do any of those things. Instead he expressed frustration with the rules of the game, and then essentially left the thread. We know now that he did that for the very understandable and perfectly acceptable reason tnat he was not having fun in the game, but we didn't know that at the time. If you're a mafia, the entiretyof this game is literally to deceive people into thinking you are on their team when you aren't, and emotion is one possible tool to do that. Combine that with the fact that tone is very hard to convey over text, and I think it is completely understandable for someone to conclude (again, as we now know, falsely) that sig was upset because he was a caught baddie.

I do get that people have an issue with how NANOOK played it from the standpoint of Objective #1, but that's not what I'm addressing here. Purely in terms of objective #2, do people think it's really reasonable to believe that NANOOK and DDL, as two baddies, made up a fake read on D2 to ensure a single civ lynch, revealing themselves in the process? I just don't see how any baddie team in the history of the game would look at that and say "Oh yeah, great play. Let's do that."
This is a totally reasonable point, relating to Objective #1.
This to me reads like someone who is upset about how sig was treated in terms of Objective #1 extending that read to assume it has meaning for Objective #2. Saying NANOOK "had shit all on sig" and was "fake claiming" is a little misleading, at best. NANOOK was pretty up front about the read not being bulletproof.

If you're upset about the way sig was treated this game, that's a fair point to make. There are also fair points to make that sig treated MP badly, and beyond that, arguments to make that MP broke the rules by talking about another ongoing game in this game. Everything about that is a shitty situation, and we collectively, as a thread need to do better. I would argue that's more important than actually trying to win the game. But presumably juliets and JJJ are handling it, and there isn't much we can do about what's already been said, at least until the game is over.

However, you seem to have decided NANOOK made it all up - I think that's virtually impossible. Could you explain to me what the angle is where you see it make sense for a baddie NANOOK to do that? If not, again, from ONLY the perspective of Objective #2, this looks to me like going after an easy target.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:05 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:36 pm Linki: TH, argue with DDL all you want about how to play the game. You guys are fighting and I get that. But is it really unreasonable for me (or anyone for that matter) to ask you to make some contribution, whatever it may be, no matter how small, to trying to find baddies? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not what you signed up for?

wow this is very discouraging. TH is one of my strongest town reads. everyone from day 1 has been shitting on how they are playing by claiming they aren't doing enough. stop putting them down with the sarcasm and condesending tone. this is how some people play, they don't have to play the way you expect them to, they don't have to post newspaper texts and huge cases for you all, and if you can't make out the tons of contributions and reads they've been pulling out since day 1, then that's on you, cos i see them loud and clear.

In general, I don't agree with dunya's self-appointed role as the thread's Nice Police, and i think dunya has been at least as rude/dismissive/condescending to some of the people she is calling out as they have been to others. However....she is 100% right to hit me for this post from an Objective #1 perspective. TH, I owe you an apology. I intended my post to pressure you purely from an Objective #2 perspective into broadening what you were looking at, seeing whether I could assess how open-minded you were willing to me. I completely overstepped, and phrased it as if I thought you weren't playing the game right. I messed up. I want you to know that one of the reasons I'm so excited for this game was to play with amazing people again, and you are absolutely one of those. I am sorry I made you feel not valued and brought down your enjoyment of the game.

That said, if you're willing, I'd like to have a dialogue about NANOOK and DDL. Yes, I believe that from an Objective 1 perspective, NANOOK was kind of a jerk in the way he treated sig. I get that you're both upset about that, and TH, I additionally get why you'd be upset with me as well. From an Objective 2 perspective, though, I've explained why I think a baddie NANOOK and DDL teaming up to force a civ mislynch based on a fake claim on D2 seems improbable. Do either of you see a possibility that NANOOK actually had a red read but it wasn't correct? Do you think it's possible DDL's explanation of NANOOK's power was right? And if so, who do you think could be a baddie in that case?

If you don't want to talk about it, I will not come back at you and say you're playing the game wrong or anything like that. But, from a purely objective 2 perspective, if you're not willing to engage me on this, it would make me think you're bad, because we seem to have arrived at opposite conclusions on what NANOOK's infodump could mean, and because I think NANOOK is the easiest D3 mislynch and gives baddies an easy out if they go after him. Similar to how NANOOK blamed sig for his reaction yesterday, I think it's easy for a baddie to push for NANOOK to die tomorrow, then say "welp, if he didn't wanna die he shouldn't have fake claimed" and get out of responsibility for it.

I do agree that NANOOK was after sig on D0 and faked a red claim on him to get him lynched based on that D0 hunch, since people are saying NANOOK has done that before. However, if that is the case, it still means not lynching NANOOK is the right play.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm if nanook is bad, he's good to lynch. if he's town, then everything he did was not a team-effort or actually inspired by scum hunting reasons but a personal vendetta which is anti-town and i have issues with that.

Can you see how this sounds a little bit like "sig is either bad and won't claim because he was caught, or not bad and not trying hard enough for me, therefore I am ok with lynching him either way"? You're making the argument you're going after NANOOK for.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:14 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:06 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm if nanook is bad, he's good to lynch. if he's town, then everything he did was not a team-effort or actually inspired by scum hunting reasons but a personal vendetta which is anti-town and i have issues with that.

Can you see how this sounds a little bit like "sig is either bad and won't claim because he was caught, or not bad and not trying hard enough for me, therefore I am ok with lynching him either way"? You're making the argument you're going after NANOOK for.

i meant to say i don't think he's town. i was saying, if i'm looking at him as scum: he has to go. if i'm trying to look at him as town: but his behavior is antitown and i need to see town motive or i have issues.

i feel a bit better now after nanook cleared up the last post he made tbf. i'm more concerned with nutella atm and trying to figure out tony and speed.

Fair. I have ISOs of nutella and Sloonei on my list. I'll do nutella after work since she's posted less. Hopefully Sloonei this evening too, but it may be tomorrow.

RIP NANOOK. But nice, we got one!!

I still think a nutella ISO is worthwhile for finding teammates - I'll be working on it throughout the evening. Good on Sloonei, dunya, and NANOOK for calling she was bad.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 5:34 pm Sorry, it was my mom's bday yesterday and I was away near eod ans didn't change my vote to Sig (I knew Sig was the conclusive lynch anyway).

Sorry, are you saying you'd have voted sig here? Becuase you went pretty hard against his lynch train. Truly not trying to nitpick or antagonize here, just want to understand your thought process.

Nutella ISO, as promised:

nutella's posts are basically non-game-related early on, and her posts through D1 are basically all rhymes. Here's the first one of any substance:
Says MP looks good, and shades NANOOK and TH. Not sure what to make of it yet, will revisit with more context
Not directly nutella-related, but I came back to this because after dunya voted nutella she eventually responded to it. This is a super good read by dunya, and the first thing that looks town from her to me (beyond "other people say she seems fine"). It doesn't completely change my mind, but it definitely helps. nutella wasn't taking any other heat for this at the time, so it would be some pretty inspired distancing if they were teammates.
Then, nutella mega-waffles on dunya, and Epi calls it out. I think this is less alignment-indicative than dunya's original call-out, but if they're both bad, I do think it would've taken some very involved BTSC to plan ahead of time.
Says she "needs someone to vote other than MP (after townreading MP earlier in the day, mind you). In hindsight, this should have been a MASSIVE red flag. Also defends dunya after the mega-waffle, which should've been another red flag.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:45 pm Wait Speed is in this game?
Wait Tony is in this game?

Which honestly, at this point in D1, fair. Not sure what to make of it.
Says she felt bad about Sloonei but is coming around, and shades Epi.
Calls Mac as civ, shades TH #2. Calls TH out for going after Mac, based on......I guess I'd call this gut if nutella had been civ. Somewhat good look for TH in my opinion.
Shades NANOOK #2, in the same way she shaded TH the second time. Based on...feelings? Certainly possible nutella went after 2 people the same way when one was on her team and one wasn't, so I wouldn't be willing to town confirm TH based off of it, but generally positive.
D1, calls that both Mac and sig are civ. Seems she didn't want to be caught lynching a civ so parked her vote elsewhere. This post reminded me to go back and look at the D1 results again since we now know both top candidates were civ. Baddies must've been salivating. I want to go back and see if anyone pushed for a sig lynch on N1 (besides NANOOK), and look at any late votes on sig. I think weakly justified singleton votes could be fruitful too - anyone doing what nutella did here.
Shades Tony for being quiet on D1. I'd say good look for him. She ended up voting him in a later post, too.
Posts this right after the D1 lynch result. Looks good for TH in hindsight. Right before the lynch, Sloonei called that nutella was bad and Mac's teammate, and mentioned nutella's weird read of Tony. This one seems more plausible to do as teammates than what dunya did further up, but I still think it looks mildly good.
For the most part, this GTH wasn't as enlightening as I had hoped. All the scum reads are people she had shaded already, and the town reads are everyone else. The MP read stood out to me, since on D1 she initially expressed suspicion of him and then backed off and started defending him from TH. I do think that has the look of possible distancing, so bad look for MP. In a later post, Sloonei thought it was crazy that nutella read him town and dunya read him scum. Sloonei, I don't have the history behind you 3, so mind elaborating on why that was so mind-blowing for you?
Takes the sig vote, which would be the easy call as a baddie. More relevant for this analysis, this is the first time nutella mentions G-Man in the game, outside of her GTH town read on him, which she never elaborated on. Claims not to understand the case on him.
In hindsight, another big red flag I missed. Said Sloonei had been productive, despite saying she didn't understand nor believe his case on G-Man.
Reiterating without adding anything tangible to G-Man's defense.
Weird, because nutella actually gave 5 scum reads in her GTH. Obviously just playing non-commital, which makes me think there's at least one baddie in her scum reads from N1. That would've been a good opportunity to lightly bus without actually building any kind of case that would put a teammate at risk. Also says "one of TH and DDL" is bad without expressing any kind of preference between the two. Given her previous shade of TH and her GTH reads, this actually makes me more confused about him. If I don't see any other posts by her mentioning him, I could see it being a bus. Would greatly appreciate others' input on that. I do think DDL's suspicion is a good look for him, because he was the first person after Sloonei to really be going at her. I have trouble seeing the angle where Sloonei and DDL coordinate to bus a teamie nutella with no other suspicion on her, in a game where D1 and D2 were handed to them.

Then she spends 5-6 posts defending G-Man from Sloonei. I won't quote them all here, but it ends with this:
This post is what convinces me firmly that Sloon is town. No way they bus this hard as teammates.
Defends NANOOK. This is the only one of her last 10-ish posts spent talking about anything but Sloonei and G-Man. I think this explains the NANOOK NK despite the heat he was taking for the sig mislynch. nutella may have seen it as a way to build civ cred, like when she parked her vote away from the major trains D1 and called both Mac and sig town. Calling her shots, so to speak.
Sounds defensive here, like she knew Sloonei wasn't going to let it go and was worried D3 would be bad for her.

tl;dr

In conclusion: nutella was bad.

But seriously, here's what I get out of it.

Sloonei looks super town, and I can't see a series of events that would lead me to vote for him in the next few days. I also think DDL comes out of it looking pretty solid, albeit to a slightly lesser extent. I also think the D1 interactions look good for TH and dunya. I wouldn't vote TH today, and although I'm not willing yet to completely drop my dunya suspicion, but I probably wouldn't vote her today either.

I think MP is a possible bussing candidate here, so not great for him, and it looks absolutely terrible for G-Man. nutella spent nearly 20% of her posts defending him but never added anything substantive to the discussion.

One further thing worth discussing/looking into: since we now know the D1 lynch was civ/civ, where do people think the baddie votes are? nutella parked hers on an-off wagon; do we think the others did the same to lie low?

I am now le tired and probably will not read until tomorrow.

Linki: wow people are reading the same stuff as me and reaching exactly opposite conclusions. G-Man claiming info has dunya and TH reading him lock town, the day after they both thought NANOOK looked bad for infodumping. Sloonei thinks the nutella ISO looks good for MP. And this is just as my opinion on all 3 of you went up by reading this. I am so confused now....

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 5:31 pm @dunya @Russtifinko have either of you guys received any items during the night phases?

I did not.

Jesus, there's a lot happening now. In addition to the nutella-ISO reasons for suspecting MP, I was just thinking to myself that early in the game there were super-believable reasons that he'd be out (general stress/busyness, champions, conflict in this game), but that I had expected him back by now. I also didn't like his reaction to Sloonei's poking. And then he claims his role explains that and is likely one of our most powerful powers left....I'm all topsy turvy now.

It looks like speed and TSP/Jack are the only other viable lynches right now? DDL, dunya, Sloon, and TH all came out of the ISO looking better to me. Despite DDL's point below, I still think G-Man looks bad in light of nutella, but he also has claimed.


In summary, I have 4 people who look good in relation to nutella and I want to give a chance to, 2 who look bad but have claimed, and 2 low posters. Yikes.

Does anyone think a baddie team with nutella, G-Man, and MP would be brazen enough to all buddy each other, and then role claim whenever they seemed in danger of being lynched? It would be an insanely bold strategy, but I'm wondering if in this particular setup it might be something a well-coordinated baddie team would go for. Then again, all 3 of them haven't posted as much as their normal meta, which would be a strike against a super active, involved baddie team.

In the meantime I'm gonna reread speed and TSP and see where I get on them.

Speedchuck ISO:

His early posts are a lot like nutella's: lots of rhyming, not a lot of substance.
I thought this was interesting. Mac theorizing that Speed and G-Man are both bad and are burned out from their last game. Worth remembering that G-Man placed an influential vote on Mac D1, but I don't know if it was before or after this and don't know how I'd find out. Can someone help me on that?
Shading Sloon.
A pair of posts defending sig and calling that he's town. nutella actually did this as well, but it reminds me more of the nutella/G-Man thing, where they give a VERY staunch defense not really backed up by much. I'll spare you the quote, but ALL of Speed's D2 posts contain some sort of defending of sig, but again not giving much reason - it kinda seems to me like Speed knows sig is good, but isn't willing to put in the effort to actually make a thread-based case about it. Furthermore, aside from some very weak shade-throwing, he doesn't put any sort of attempt into building a counter-wagon. I view this as potentially trying to build civ cred without being committed.

I think this on my own actually convinces me Speed is bad. He's been around a LOT more than I realized this game, but has given us absolutely nothing except some weak town reads on people who turned out town, and light shade on Sloonei. No votes, no cases, no counterwagons, not even a single thread-based reason to defend one of the people he's defending.

You could say that Speed is an inactive just isn't that into the game - he didn't vote either day, and said himself that's not alignment-indicative. But if that's true, and if he hasn't read large portions of the thread, why defend sig so freaking hard?

I will throw in that is Speed is bad, I would feel a lot better about G-Man, since nutella:G-Man = Speedchuck:sig.
Defends NANOOK, but again, without any thread-based reasoning, just a weak feel. Potentially another attempt to build up civ cred.
This is pretty wishy-washy, but literally all I've seen Speed do is townread people this game with weak reasoning. This is a separate reason why is Speed is bad, I feel better about G-Man.
Same for Jack/TSP.


I think Speed is bad, and I think the other baddies are going to be people he either lightly shaded or didn't talk about at all. It seems like Spped's play this game has been entirely focused on town-reading people to look alright while skating by. I'm putting my vote there now until I ISO Jack.

[VOTE: Speed] aubergine

Slightly favorable look for Jack here. I know he had literally just subbed in, but I feel like if you're bad you're slightly less likely to misattribute a quote from a teammate. Obviously fakeable, but why?
Jack can you clarify what about this reads town? Also, has anyone engaged you on the below?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 4:01 pm Somebody talk to me about there being 4 single off wagon votes yesterday.

Again points out the TH townread. If Jack is bad, TH possible teammate? Also, town-reading G-Man without giving a whole lot of reason why. (Admittedly, gives more reason than nutella did, but "more reason" consists of sheeping dunya.)
Terrible look. Jack, when poked by Sloonei, says he hasn't read Speed and has heard his name thrown about, so why not him? How is that mindset even at all town-aligned? I get that he's catching up and no one wants ot die, but the way you avoid dying is by helping find baddies, making cases and such. Not by randomly deflecting. He does eventually get around to doing that, though, shading MP and Sloonei:
This is a better look - he's offering his own take. Still only responding to things happening immediately in the thread, which isn't as ideal as reading back, but is consistent with having just subbed in and defending yourself.
But then it's back to "anyone but me!" If MP is his top baddie read here, why list Speed first, especially if he has no read on him, as he says right in the post? This was pre-MP claim, but feels a little like Jack isn't sticking to his reads.


I read TSP after Jack, and I am now too tired to bother with quotes.

Things in his favor: Epi seemed convinced he was civ. Unfortunately we don't know why.
Things against him: most of his posts are either (1) rhymes or (2) saying that he was against the Mac and sig lynches. I also think this is a case of trying to build civ cred while skating by. Also, he had Epi in his scum GTH, but was happy to take full credit for the civ read Epi gave him:
Conclusion: I would not be shocked if both Speed and Jack were town. Would rather vote Speed, because the building-civ-cred thing is stronger there, but would vote either one of them over anyone else right now.

In my post above, I meant I would not be shocked if Jack and Speed were both scum***, not town.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:23 am

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 pm But if that's true, and if he hasn't read large portions of the thread, why defend sig so freaking hard?

the sig drama was like, a very vocal, loud and disruptive phase of this game. if he had completely ignored it, i would have suspected him. chipping in when it was happening didn't strike me as odd. i also find it extremely unlikely nutella and speed as partners decide to defend sig.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 pm Defends NANOOK, but again, without any thread-based reasoning,

how do you know it's without thread based reasoning?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 7:38 pm You’re confusing replacing in Jack with scumJack.

nah. i just have no reasons to town read u, and like i said before in this game, you only worry when i don't find a reason to call u town. it's not your fault, really. i can't just ignore all of tony and start fresh with you.

Re: dunya's Point #1: but it's the only thing he did for a full day or more. Like, sure, note that it's happening, have a take, great. But maybe do something else?

Re: Point #2: It's without thread-based reasoning because there is no thread-based reasoning in what he wrote....If you disagree with me on that, show me where he pointed to anything thread-based at all.

I don't understand dunya hard-defending Speed, pushing Jack, then basically giving up on it and voting for Speed. If Speed is bad, dunya is too.

Also, Speed and Jack's responses to the pushes against them have been essentially identical in my book. "Welp, I don't really have a take on the other guy, but better him than me amirite?" So although it's not a great look for either, I don't think it tips the scales one way or another. Jack is at least offering some other thoughts right now, which is a slightly better look for him.

Didn't mean to include the Jack-dunya exchange in that quote, either. Sorry if confusing.

Wait, dunya just switched over to Jack without calling it. And the vote is listed before Speed's, which happened earlier. WTF?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 2:55 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 1:10 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 1:07 pm Probably you since you switched your vote after I threatened to hammer jack

i dont like to be shouted at. jack shouted at me ok? he told me to f off ok?

also there's no hammering in this game. feel free to put your vote on jack tho.

When did he yell at you? In btsc?

Wait TH, are you saying you think dunya is bad? And is that in general or conditional on a Jack scum flip? Asking because I thought you had her locktown

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:19 pm Why the hell is Dunya both teamed with me according to @Turnip Head and Speed according to @Russtifinko but also consensus town?

FWIW, I know Dunya isn't scum with me and with Speed probably dead in the water and Dunya being garbo at reading me, her pushes on me over Speed aren't really alignment indicative.

FWIW, I've been after dunya since D1. But most people decided her tone was town, and one person (I think Sloonei?) raised a point in her favor. I think people have basically decided I was tunneling and to ignore me, which I can't really blame them for. We seem to come to opposite conclusions on everything and have fought a fair bot, so people tune it out. I also haven't played with her before so dont know her style/meta as well as the people saying she gives town vibes.

I am curious about how TH thinks she's bad with you, though. By my count, she's:

1) hard defended Speed
2) said "ah, whatever. not my job to defend someone who isn't playing. I'm voting Speed"
3) voted speed
4) changed her vote to you without announcing it

I guess I don't understand why your teammate would do that.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:52 pm However, because I am G-Man, and I can tinfoil with the best of them, I can envision a world where nutella and Sloonei are baddie teammates, using their verbose natures to lead the thread post-wise, and setting themselves on opposite sides of one or two players in order to feed the other cred when one side crumbles and gets lynched.

But that's a lot of hard work to pull off in small, quieter sort of game. Why would baddies try to be that cute when they can probably coast for two or three days? I could see both nutella and Sloonei trying it for the show-off factor, but it's a bitter pill to swallow from a 30,000-foot level.

But nutella wasn't verbose this game, at least not compared to what I remember from playing with her way back when. Personally, I think it's more likely the baddies haven't been steering much and instead let us do their dirty work for them. I don't see a world where Sloonei is bad right now, even tinfoiling.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:01 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 10:04 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:24 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm I don't remember which game it was, but I think there was an instance where town Sig lost a game on purpose to make a point about being against claiming. Or maybe it was someone else (this happens a lot in the other forum I play in). Correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is true it makes me paranoid, though. There is a good chance nanook is telling the truth but his info isn't really conclusive, and Sig is gonna self destruct to make a point anyway.

Notably Nanook also faked a red peek in a recent game (the baseball one), though that person happened to be indeed mafia But from what he's said here I believe he's not lying this time and he is admitting that his info might not be 100% reliable. But yeah you make a point that goes against Nanook's plan to policy-lynch sig for refusing to claim.

I've been known to take pretty hard-line stances against claiming and infodumping, too. But it's in the rules for this game, so to the extent it helps us, we might as well. We're at a disadvantage to begin with because of post count restrictions, so we should use every (legal) advantage we have.

I wouldn't call it a policy lynch, though. Even with NANOOK's admittedly not-certain infodump, I probably wouldn't vote sig today if that was the only thing against him. There's also yesterday's lynch vote, which looked like a save to me, and his reaction to this read, which has been to stubbornly not claim and then make a bunch of false statements.

G-Man, I'm gonna ISO both you and Sloonei, with as open a mind as possible, but I probably won't get around to it until tomorrow at least. He pinged me very early on, and you're now one of my top suspects. I do think it's a good look that he put so much detail into that ISO before anyone followed your advice to ISO him. I never think an OMGUS is super inspiring, but I'm probably giving a little more leeway on this one than I usually would since I do think D1 points to you being bad.

nutella thanks for the help with "@"! That was driving me insane.

You should have a good reason not to suspect me, but I am unclear who you are saying is OMGUSing here?

As far as I saw, G-Man came at you first, so that would make you the OMGUSer. However, as I said, I think G-Man is bad, so take that with a big grain of salt.

Also, I am notoriously bad at hints. What's the reason not to suspect you? (If I'm likely to come across it when I ISO you then you don't have to bother right now though.)

hahahaha, this all makes sense now, Sloon.

I actually hadn't thought of the possibility of MP's power claim being right but alignment being wrong. Something to keep in mind.

As I said, personally I feel stronger about Speed based on his lack of non-sig-defending content on D2. Just read as if he was trying to get cred without putting in any real effort. I think TSP gave a bit more in terms of reads per post, and Jack has been in the latter half of the day. I can see how people feel the same lurking baddie vibe about TSP with him subbing out, though, and it still seems completely possible to me that both Speed and Jack are bad, so if no votes change, this seems fine too.

RIP TonyJack and MP

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 4:57 pm yeah, broken record and all that. it's been fun playing with you, really. i hope you know that. and i look forward to playing more games with you.

The feeling is mutual.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:07 pm Have we given proper consideration to the possibility that G-man's claim is made up?

I hadn't considering all the other ones have been solid so far. His was the most roundabout, though, and he came out looking worst from my nutella ISO.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:10 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:07 pm Have we given proper consideration to the possibility that G-man's claim is made up?

Yes.

I'm still wrapping my head over how fucking Mr. Vile has a major role.

And continue to thing it's a good idea for G-Man to reveal who the vig is in order to confirm himself. The vig themselves could just say out loud that they are for/against it, if they haven't already.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 6:31 pm Ok guys sorry for indirectly causing this.

If I ask anyone to claim your role/character, please don't claim your method for obatining the jiggies, thank you.

Honestly, at this point I just think you should stop asking people to claim altogether. Most importantly at night. I get claiming during the day if there's a potential pivotal vote coming, but doing it at night just paints targets on people's backs and help mafia figure out power roles. I don't see any world where pushing so hard for this helps us.

I guess the big question for me tomorrow is, do we go for the obvious lynch (Speed) again. It hasn't worked for us so far this game, but someone has to be bad, and I still can't get over the soft sig defense being more or less his only contribution. G-Man would be my other top contender - his claim had stopped me going after him, but Sloonei is right that it could be fake.

For others, I still wish someone would engage me on dunya, and DDL's insistence on claiming has me feeling bad about him.

Linki: Hmm..so that makes my top baddie reads for tomorrow 2 pairs. Either G-Man and DDL are two ballsy as hell baddies, or it's dunya/Speed. My nutella ISO had DDL looking pretty good for suspecting her when there wasn't much pressure on her, so I'd lean the latter.

Double linki: Sloonei I've been arguing dunya is bad all game. Maybe someone engage those points?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 7:48 pm well fuck it. im sorry jack, really fucking sorry. sorry tony.

i wish i could vote TH out right now.

Wait what?

More detail on how you came ot this conclusion, please. I have felt like I've been fighting you and TH in thread all game long, so for you to get this read on him suddenly shatters my worldview.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 9:38 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:18 pm @speedchuck can you give us something to work with like, a role claim even at this point. your character name? who do you suspect? why?

I can give both, if people want. But I don't think it's that helpful. I'll give more thoughts tomorrow unless I get vigged.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:23 pm Dunya seems to have lost her cool. She's acting a little manic, that's my shtick not hers :P

I'm not bad, and if I make it through the night I'll do everything I can to prove it.

Sorry Jack (and MP)

Same.

Uhhhhhh, what now??????? Is this a baddie slip?

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 10:15 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 10:11 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 7:48 pm well fuck it. im sorry jack, really fucking sorry. sorry tony.

i wish i could vote TH out right now.

Wait what?

More detail on how you came ot this conclusion, please. I have felt like I've been fighting you and TH in thread all game long, so for you to get this read on him suddenly shatters my worldview.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 9:38 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:18 pm @speedchuck can you give us something to work with like, a role claim even at this point. your character name? who do you suspect? why?

I can give both, if people want. But I don't think it's that helpful. I'll give more thoughts tomorrow unless I get vigged.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:23 pm Dunya seems to have lost her cool. She's acting a little manic, that's my shtick not hers :P

I'm not bad, and if I make it through the night I'll do everything I can to prove it.

Sorry Jack (and MP)

Same.

Uhhhhhh, what now??????? Is this a baddie slip?

Pretty obvious, Russ. TH is in the POE. No way he gets NK’d tonight unless DDL blasts him. Not sure how you didn’t put two and two together.

Yeah, I guess so. My gut reaction was that the avergae civ is more worried about an NK, but with a small-ish suspect pool this makes sense.

I think G-Man doubting Sloon's case here is yet another bad look from him. Also, it looks like a potential NO U since Sloon recently pointed out that G-Man's claim could be fake.

Well, I thought I posted this when I was on earlier today, but apparently it didn't go through.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 9:15 amdid you read the thread? everyone i iso'd individually made me feel worse about TH tbh, starting with sloonei's iso of nutella. i have no doubt in my mind they are bad now. and i'm pretty sold on you being their teammate. if jack had flipped bad, TH coulda been good.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 10:43 amI feel like I let dunya down somehow cuz she did a complete 180 on me. Dunya what did I do?

Clearly I have read the thread, and clearly I'm not the only person confused about where this came from.

Calling it now: baddies are dunya/Speed. I now think dunya was buddying TH and is flipping on him now that victory is in sight.


Since then: RIP G-Man. dunya's sudden flip on TH feels to me like a baddie lashing out, and her reasoning for it is weak. TH "hasn't done anything" lately?? Why are you being dismissive of TH now? Where's the dunya who reached out to TH when they were getting frustrated and felt like no one was hearing them and said "I hear you?"

It feels like scum dunya has realized if she can lead a mislynch today she wins, so she moved to flip on the easiest remaining townie to mislynch and can't come up with a reason to justify it. With Sloon and DDL confirmed, Speed being her teammate, and her suspicion of me not taking off, TH is her only option left.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 5:46 pm It's funny if we look at nutella russti and TH. They've all scum read 1 of them and townread 2.

If you're trying to make a point, make it. Are you saying the baddie move is to townread yourself and one teammate and scum read the other? If so, what did your GTH with Speed and nutella look like? This is being presented as helpful analysis, but it's just weak shade hoping someone else picks it up and runs with it.

FWIW, I also don't buy the fake "if I'm gone after tonight" bit. The POE for today is 4 people, max, and dunya knew she was one of them. No baddie in their right minds kills her last night. Trying to act like a worried civ.

I want to note too that dunya and Speed both independently brought up MYLO unprompted in recent posts. Still not totally sure that's the case, but I think they realized it overnight and are going all out now, and that explains her change in behavior.

I'm Kazooie and am vanilla.

Agree that if true, dunya's claim is never a baddie role. However, for exactly that reason, I also don't think we can believe it. No evidence of it being true because she hasn't voted in a close lynch vote yet, and it's exactly what a baddie would claim to stay alive one more day. I think both Speed and dunya are bad and showing a burst of energy here to win the day. Brilliant baddie move to claim a vote-manipulation role in MYLO.

Linki: I actually totally sympathize wiht you not reading MP's post, dunya. I am a hardliner against infor-dumping when it isn't allowed. Confused by the first part of your post, though - are you saying you no longer think TH and I are teammates? Or that you still think we are and if so you just won't trust TH after this game?

dunya wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:30 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:19 pm Confused by the first part of your post, though - are you saying you no longer think TH and I are teammates?

i don't know, russ. i don't know. TH, speed and you. that's my POE. i think TH looks bad from his early beef with Mac, to his interactions with nutella and Tony/Jack, and how he's voting for me because i'm voting for him (and if speed is his teammate and not you, it makes sense why he picked me since you've been adamant about my lynch since day 1). he's not "gamesolving" right now and at this stage, i feel like TH should be. he trusts you because you're not voting for him. if i believed that he actually suspected me, i might bring him around. he said something to mac when mac was suspecting him and he did a hard NO U on him "if you're town work with me" and he keeps saying that to me. it actually does the opposite of inspiring confidence in him whenever he does say that. either i trust him, or he thinks i'm bad. nah. that's not how mafia works for me. tell me why you're town and show me your eagerness to sort people out then i'll sway.

....parts of this actually make sense to me. I still don't understand your 180 on Speed and think it's baddie-teammate indicative, but I'll read through TH again and see if a Speed/TH team fits.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 4:37 pm @Turnip Head @speedchuck @dunya @Russtifinko

My vote is going to be decided by your actions. Ignoring POE and role claims is hard to do at this stage of the game, but if I ask you to do exactly that, what are your reads on each of the other players listed here? Based purely on behavior/votes/in-thread actions, who are your suspects and who are your town reads? And why?

I don't think it's reasonable for you to ask us to ignore info regarding you and DDL - your breadcrumb on your role and the fact that DDL was corroborated by G-Man make you both literally 100% lock town for me, as in, if either of you are bad then we aren't even playing the game of mafia, because something has been massively screwed up. Other than on you two, though, I'll do my best. Obviously I'm town and not in my own POE, so that leaves dunya/Speed/TH. I'm not going to go back and quote extensively or (re-)do full ISOs here, but just bascially explain my thought process.

My strong gut feeling is that the baddie team is Speed/dunya, so I'll start with them. In Speed's case, my read isn't so much associations/thread interactions with others, because Speed hasn't really done a whole lot of that in this game. There's just very little to go on in general. I keep going back to this post from Mac:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:37 pm They're a pigeon pair of slanking wolves I think. They've both made just two posts. Speedchuck just put in a mighty effort in the other game, roles wolf here, can't muster up the energy to switch modes. G-Man just doesn't like playing Mafia, let alone being Mafia.

Now obviously, Mac also suspected G-Man here, and we know he was good. I don't think it invalidates the point, though: there are a lot of people who just have trouble getting into a game of mafia as baddies or feel demoralized/unmotivated by it, partly because the "solving the game" aspect is gone and partly because they don't like deceiving people. MP7 comes to mind in that regard, and I think nutella showed it in this game. I don't know Speed all that well, so can't say in terms of his personality, but I think it makes sense that would be more likely to be in play for him here if he just put in a heroic effort as a civ in another game.

The thing that originally stuck out to me, though, was his behavior on D2. According to Speed, he was barely keeping up with the thread. Despite that, he found a lot of time to tell people not to lynch sig. He never offered an alternate candidate, though, nor even a thread-based reason he thought sig was good. It was all just weak, gut-based reasoning, and he had to know it wouldn't be likely to convince anyone. I think he did it so he could say "I told you so" later on for civ cred, while expending minimal effort, and I don't really see a civ angle to it - if he legitimately believed sig was civ and he was too, the civ move is to advocate harder at the very least, and push someone he actually thought was mafia at best. You might remember from my ISO of her that nutella had a very similar defense of G-Man, and I think it makes sense as a baddie play.

For dunya, we've been at eacj other's throats since D1, starting when I sussed her for posting 5 times in a row and calling MP town much earlier and with much more certainty than I thought was reasonable, almost like she knew he was. I thought she was buddying him. She OMGUSed me, then immediately backed off me and pivoted to talking about Mac, who had the most votes at the time. As I looked back at that exchange just now, I was reminded of this, too:

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:23 pm dunya seems her typical self
but she's not firmly on my town shelf
because I know she can be wily scum
but she's not under my voting thumb

Does anyone have some berries and whipped cream I can put on this waffle?

I should've pressed harder on this at the time and also picked up on it once again when I ISOed nutella. It's so waffly and reads to me like a baddie teammate soft-defending another before suspicion on them really picks up, but leaving wiggle room to distance later if necessary.

Beyond nutella, though, 4-5 other people had gut civ leans on her, and then Epi said he thought her going after Mac and Sloon was town-dunya behavior. I also think people were kind of tuning out our exchanges by now. Night 2, I thought she was trying to set up an easy NANOOK revenge lynch:

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:06 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm if nanook is bad, he's good to lynch. if he's town, then everything he did was not a team-effort or actually inspired by scum hunting reasons but a personal vendetta which is anti-town and i have issues with that.

Can you see how this sounds a little bit like "sig is either bad and won't claim because he was caught, or not bad and not trying hard enough for me, therefore I am ok with lynching him either way"? You're making the argument you're going after NANOOK for.

but that theory fell apart when NANOOK was NKed. And then, when I ISOed nutella, she came out looking a bit better overall. So I was feeling less certain, and wondering if I actually had been tunneling her as others implied.

Then in yesterday's lynch, I started suspecting her more primarily based on her interactions with Speed, who I thought was bad. As I said at the time, she:

1) hard defended Speed
2) said "ah, whatever. not my job to defend someone who isn't playing. I'm voting Speed"
3) voted speed
4) changed her vote to Jack without announcing it

And then today, she went from fully defending TH and townreading him when I had some testy exchanges with dunya/TH in thread, to saying that now she thinks he's my baddie teammate. I think over yesterday and today, the progressions on her reads have made no sense. I do, however, think they fit with baddie motivations. I think she and Speed realized it was MYLO, and then she tried to find who she thought would be the weakest link for a mislynch and go after them. She clearly landed on TH.

When I asked for explanation recently, I did think parts of her explanation made sense. However, as I reread now, I'm coming back to this

dunya wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:30 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:19 pm Confused by the first part of your post, though - are you saying you no longer think TH and I are teammates?

i don't know, russ. i don't know. TH, speed and you. that's my POE. i think TH looks bad from his early beef with Mac, to his interactions with nutella and Tony/Jack, and how he's voting for me because i'm voting for him (and if speed is his teammate and not you, it makes sense why he picked me since you've been adamant about my lynch since day 1

dunya adamantly did NOT suss TH for their beef with Mac, nor their interactions with TonyJack. Like I said, she's taken their side in thread multiple times. This makes it sound like there was a suss that built slowly over time by observing irrational behavior from TH, but that's revisionist history - we observed her sticking up for them in thread.

Admittedly, my read on dunya at this point is based partly on her strange behavior around the Speed lynch, and I think large parts of this narrative only work if they're a baddie pair. However, I'm trying to keep in mind that it's still possible I'm tunneling her and TH is the other baddie. I'm going to reread TH this evening, and I'll do my best to keep an open mind about it, but it may be tough because I do feel pretty strongly about the other two.

HOLY FUCK! In the middle of my TH ISO, but I was just reminded that we lynched TonyJack on D3 in large part because of dunya's "dream". I'm aware that we did the same thing to sig on D2 based on faulty (but civ) info from NANOOK, but wow is it a bad look. Did dunya ever tell us what form the info took or how certain it was? Because as hard as she sussed NANOOK for his infodump, she seemed pretty damn certain about hers being unimpeachable.

Sorry - I'm still in the middle of my TH ISO, but I thought more about this as I was eating dinner.

dunya has made 2 claims this game.

1) She "had a dream" that Jack was bad. Please anyone tell me if I'm wrong on this, but I think that this would, by necessity, arise from some night power or night actions. Even if that's not necessarily true, though, her own language and the timing hint at it being night - phrasing it as a "dream" and posting about it first thing in the Day.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:59 pm Also so freaking weird but I had a dream that somehow included this game last night and Jack was playing in it I shit you not. Woke up and heres jack replaced in for Tony. So basically, I see the future now. Jack was bad. Let's see if that holds up too...

2) She has a very powerful role that, just as it would happen, would be one only a civ could have (double vote power).

dunya wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:51 pm i have a double vote. my vote counts as two. useful in mylo and lylo, although it's out in the open now.

I think the odds of JJJ giving dunya 2 distinct and very powerful role powers in a game with a significant number of vanillas are vanishingly small. I also don't think it's possible she got 2 powers some other way - Sloonei is the one giving out gifts, and he has said he didn't target her, and when people have earned rewards in the past they've come in the form of jiggies. dunya is lying and is scum.

Also worth pointing out that dunya's "info" came on a Day when Speed and Jack were pretty much the only viable lynch candidates, and from what I saw, it seemed like her argument swayed enough people to turn that lynch. I'd put money on the baddie team being dunya/Speed based on this alone. That said, I'll finish my read of TH to see how tinfoil a dunya/TH team would be. Initial gut reaction is it wouldn't make sense, because why would duny a bother claiming info on Jack D3 if both the top lynch candidates were bad? And also, Why would she have said to go after me "when TH flips bad" as though a TH lynch was somehow inevitable? Still worth reading for just to be sure, but going to be hard to stay impartial there.

TH:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 9:20 pm Mac seems more interested in reading townies than finding scum

I've voted for him

TH placed a few different votes D1, including MP, dunya, and finally, Mac.

I actually think I missed their dunya vote D1 - in my mind, the two of them have essentially been a pair all game (which may not be fair), so I was surprised to see it. The other notable thing from D1 is that they called sig was civ, which as I've said looks like a baddie move designed to get civ cred to me, given how things have played out this game. However, I think in this case, that's counteracted by the Mac vote, which gives accountability and put them at some risk. Same for this post:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:46 pm A reminder that Mac was leading the poll by a full vote before the dogpile on sig occurred

A baddie could definitely write this to push for a Mac revenge lynch if sig had been lynched D1, but as we know, there was a counter-dogpile after. If there had been significant baddie votes in the Mac train, I could see this as clever distancing, but given that Epi and G-Man were the most pivotal votes there, I have trouble seeing the goal here for a baddie.

Net-net the D1 look is civ for me, given the benefit of more hindsight.

Day 2, TH defended sig pretty hard, based mostly on tone, and sussed NANOOK fairly hard as well. I thought this looked bad at the time, and it was a big source of my conflict with TH/dunya and me viewing them as a pair. Again, though, the theory that they were setting NANOOK up for a D3 mislynch for revenge on sig fell apart when NANOOK was NKed.

This post:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:35 pm DDL/Nanook/Nutella mafia? I think it's possible.

could be bad in my book - the angle would be sussing DDL and distancing from nutella, which as luck would have it would be a good look when nutella was vigged. So I really don't know where to go with this - I don't think it's impossible for a baddie to say these things, just the NANOOK part is hard for me to fit into any kind of narrative.

The exchange with Tony on Night 2 is interesting. Tony says TH pocketed him, and TH explains why they're reading Tony town.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:45 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:31 pm I just want y’all to know I’ve requested to sub out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be considered to be AI. Yes, I know I just said in the last game that subbing out is probably scum. Whatever.

As to my reads: I have no clue what’s happening in this game.
I think there are safe scum teams (speed, TH, G-Man) that don’t require much mental energy, but I think I’ve been successfully pocketed by TH. Sloonei and Nutella could round out something with Nanook. I don’t think there’s anything worth calling a towncore, but associative reads can carry pretty far I think. Lynch one scum.

I can explain why you're towncore to me: You changed your read of me favorably at a time where you didn't have to and wouldn't have made sense to do so if you were scum. I can link it if you like, it felt extremely townie to me.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:47 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 4:19 am Sloonei might be bad
But I think I’m wrong
To keep pursuing THead
Who Keeps chugging along

Here's the post where TSP changed his read on me. It doesn't appear to have been prompted by anything specific, it was not a reaction to anything specific. It feels like TSP genuinely changed his mind in a way that a scum player wouldn't think to do.

I do think this is a potential scum move, but it also just fits a general pattern this game of TH reading people as the alignment that those people think TH is, as dunya pointed out today. I'm genuinely not sure if that's alignment-indicative, and would look for input from Sloon/DDL on how it fits TH's meta.

D3 does not look as good for TH IMO. Susses MP7, but then also latches on to MP's tinfoil of G-Man:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 1:36 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 1:33 pm I actually think G-Man may be saying what he's saying and still be scum, by the way. Not sold on either way, but I'm a bit nervous with people clearing him and a lot of people suddenly being OK with lynching me instead.

I was going to mention this if no one else did. I think I've cleared G-Man too easily for this.

Which to me kind of seems like a baddie going after easy targets.

------- This is the point where I realized dunya had double-claimed. In the rest of this post, I'm going to tinfoil TH as hard as I can and see if a dunya/TH squad can come close to making as much sense as dunya/Speed. Will be trying to read TH as negative as I can and compare that against the narrative for dunya/Speed that I think fits very well. ---------

To recap from Day 3, TH:

1) Goes hard after MP, whom we now know to be civ.
2) Tinfoils DDL/G-Man based on a post from MP, who seemed to be their top suspect at the time(!), and which we now know to be false.
3) Tries to keep G-Man's info out of the thread, which could be construed as a baddie move to give us less to work with.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 10:14 am And yes I agree gman should keep his info to himself, I was just greedy and wanted to know more civs for my PoE. Plus after sig I don't trust that someone who should claim will do so but I hope that doesn't happen again

4) Asks me and dunya for our opinions on MP, then shades me in their next post!

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 3:12 pm I need to hear from @dunya and @Russtifinko before I feel confident in this wagon; I trust their takes on MP

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 7:36 pm If someone in the towncore is secretly bad, it's probably Russti

5) Went after dunya after she 180ed them, and then stopped sussing me. Looking at this in the most negative possible light, this "trouble in paradise" could be 2 baddies agreeing to bus each other in an effort to sow confusion, and for TH to pocket me. However, if they were gonna do that, it would kind of make sense for dunya to pocket Speed too and set up a false dichotomy, and it hasn't seemed like she's doing that.


Day 4, they:

1) Suggested a no lynch to go to LYLO.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 11:06 am Should we No Lynch and go to Lylo?

As someone else pointed out, going to LYLO doesn't really help us because it doesn't narrow the POE - seems like a foregone conclusion that DDL or Sloon dies tomorrow. I guess it could be a baddie trying to buy more time to argue themselves out of a hole? That would seem to benefit a TH/Speed team more than a TH/dunya team, though, since Speed seemed to have more suspicion at the time.

2) Has mentioned numerous times that they are civ and that they've made a lot of mistakes this game.

The main objective of those type of posts seems to be avoiding being lynched. Which, fair, because if TH really is civ and we lynch them, it's game over. But if I'm tinfoiling, it does seem like TH's suspicions today have been fairly reactionary. TH has given reasons for that, but I do think that generally, "anyone but me" is a bad-ish look.



Re-reading TH, I suppose I can see a world where they're bad with dunya and manufactured a rift to sow confusion. Overall, I find this less compelling than the dunya/Speed narrative above, but it's technically possible. I would be very unlikely to vote TH today, but assuming we get a baddie today I would try not to get too tunneled/pocketed.

If the dream thing was actually just flavor/a fun way to word things, then I apologize. I consider myself really bad at reading hints, as I mentioned to Sloonei before, but even I thought this was definitely hinting at an infodump. It was one of the reasons I thought a Jack lynch was ok even though my thread read on Speed was stronger.

I clearly wasn't the only one, either - Sloon cited it as a reason for his vote.

Sloonei, did you think dunya's dream was info-related? Or broader question for everyone: is there an inside thing with dunya having really strong intuition that just hits her sometimes, that I haven't seen before because this is my first time playing with her? Because I feel like there are at best 3 possibilities, even giving the most possible benefit of the doubt:

1) dunya claimed info on Jack
2) dunya literally had an irl dream that Jack was bad, and dunya is know to have amazing intuition/read the future through dreams sometimes, so people went with it. (If it sounds like this one is teasing, I swear that is not my intention. I do believe some people are amazing at processing things like mafia subconsciously and something like this could happen. Just if that's a known thing with you, no one made it clear to me when you said it.)
3) The stuff about dreaming was flavor text that was misinterpreted by at least me and Sloonei, and possibly others.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 11:03 pm I never believed that dunya’s dream was role-related.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 9:19 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 8:59 pm Also so freaking weird but I had a dream that somehow included this game last night and Jack was playing in it I shit you not. Woke up and heres jack replaced in for Tony. So basically, I see the future now. Jack was bad. Let's see if that holds up too...

Ignore my vote call at the end of the ISO post. I believe in dunya' dreams. [VOTE: tonyjackprime] aubergine

Also I'm willing to buy G-man's claim to have info right now.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 3:15 pm Moved back to Tony/Jack.
MP's wagon is on track,
But dunya had a dream:
We can lynch Jack for the meme.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 3:19 pm I'm only half joking. I have so much faith in dunya that I'm not ruling out the possibility that she unconsciously solved this game.

And on that point, I do not believe that dunya would make something like that up as mafia. If there’s a reason to clear her, it’s the dream.

Alright, fair enough. I guess I misinterpreted that, then.

Color me puzzled in that case that it seemed to make the difference between Speed and TonyJack yesterday, in that case. I get people believing in dunya's intuition, but it's consistent with a dunya/Speed team. It's also relatively low-accountability; saying your dream was wrong is harder to nail someone on than thread-based analysis of interactions.

I mean, I guess it's theoretically possible that Sloonei pre-emptively breadcrumbed a fake role to me days in advance. Occam's Razor says he's telling the truth, so I think the chances are small.

I guess I'm willing to lose to a baddie Sloonei on the small chance he came up with that. Like if so, well played dude, ya got me. I don't think it's likely enough to put him in my POE.

TH, I guess going another day doesn't really hurt us, although I'm not sure what benefit additional discussion would have without any new data points. Here's where I stand right now.

Probabilities of People Being Bad:
Speed - 90%
dunya - 80%
TH - 29%
Sloon - 1%
DDL - 0%

If the only viable lynches for today end up being people I'm <80% sure of, I'm with you on No Lynch. If Speed or dunya can go down today, I think it's our best shot.