The Syndicate

Oddmerta, let's put aside our differences for a minute...

If JPIC carried the night kill and tried to get Mac...who was the doctor?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:58 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:46 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:42 am
Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:33 am
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:32 am
Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:23 am We’re so impatient

lol im a cop
who did you target n1 and why? and what kind of cop?
Mac

Got to check that the towncore wasn’t breached
[VOTE: JPIC] aubergine

No sane townie does this. This is an excuse made up by a wolf who got caught blasting at someone.

Looks like the Watcher theory is correct, kinda coincidental that everyone who visited Mac was in the bottom POE then
Problem being that it appears as though if JPIC had been blasting Mac would be dead.

Inconvenient.
So he postcapped Mac and mafia blasted me. I don't see how that changes anything.

So what was Sprityo doing there?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:59 am Also I'm just going to go ahead and say I don't believe defenses along the lines of "who would defend their scum buddy in this spot" etc. because scum may well feel pressured to make ballsy plays to win

Yeah that's not ballsy, it's plain stupid.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:03 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:00 am So he postcapped Mac and mafia blasted me. I don't see how that changes anything.
So what was Sprityo doing there?

Some other random town role. Mac theorized sprityo was copping him. Or something more exotic and game-specific.
[/quote]

Soooo...JPIC would be totally insane to be copping Mac...but the answer to what Sprityo was doing there is...copping Mac.

Sure, that seems obvious

Sprityo pushed TWO different town core members day one...neither of them Mac. If he was going to cop a town core member doesn't it seem likely he would have checked one of his pushes?

Do you see anything in their day one interactions that suggests that v!Sprityo was there to do some favor for Mac?

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:05 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:59 am Oddmerta, let's put aside our differences for a minute...

If JPIC carried the night kill and tried to get Mac...who was the doctor?
Nanook or Spirit, could be as I said before that protection might come at the price of being postcapped.

Could be Mac didn't get blasted and jpic is a mafia role cop, nutella claimed doc and they kinda were.

Jpic being a cop that can claim without restriction, checking Mac of all people and generally being one the scummiest players in the game is more than enough for me to exe

If Nanook was the doc why would he believe JPIC's claim? Wouldn't he be thinking "I docced him, that's why he's alive, and you are making up crazy shit here"?

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:16 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:12 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:05 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:59 am Oddmerta, let's put aside our differences for a minute...

If JPIC carried the night kill and tried to get Mac...who was the doctor?
Nanook or Spirit, could be as I said before that protection might come at the price of being postcapped.

Could be Mac didn't get blasted and jpic is a mafia role cop, nutella claimed doc and they kinda were.

Jpic being a cop that can claim without restriction, checking Mac of all people and generally being one the scummiest players in the game is more than enough for me to exe
If Nanook was the doc why would he believe JPIC's claim? Wouldn't he be thinking "I docced him, that's why he's alive, and you are making up crazy shit here"?
I prefer to think of you as the hardest working scum because otherwise you are the most counterproductive townie.

Don't try to do me any favors, because I would have to be the dumbest wolf on the planet (pro tip: I'm not) to be reminding everyone that if JPIC is fake claiming it will be glaringly obvious in a day or two...well before end game...when the most likely person for lolwillage to chop instead is...oh, yeah...me.

And as to me being a "counterproductive townie"...I don't try to brown nose town cores. Your whole "look at the consensus reads I'm spitting out, I must be town" schtick is something I could do in my sleep if I were a wolf, so I'm not impressed and won't pretend I am just to make Mac happy.

But it is interesting how you changed the subject.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:19 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:09 am Soooo...JPIC would be totally insane to be copping Mac...but the answer to what Sprityo was doing there is...copping Mac.

Sure, that seems obvious

Sprityo pushed TWO different town core members day one...neither of them Mac. If he was going to cop a town core member doesn't it seem likely he would have checked one of his pushes?

Do you see anything in their day one interactions that suggests that v!Sprityo was there to do some favor for Mac?
I see no case for JPIC ever visiting Mac with a cop. There is nothing in anything JPIC has done or say that would suggest he would want to use a cop role on Mac.

I see a case for sprityo visiting Mac with a positive role. sprityo has clearly been skeptical of the towncore, having pushed both me and tutuu, and he clearly does not trust our reads or pushes. If sprityo is town, he has to be mulling over the possibility that we're getting played by deepwolves within the core. Insofar as that is the case, there is a reason for a cop sprityo who is convinced that the town is being played to try to make a hero investigate and expose Mac on N1. The alternative theory is that sprityo simply re-evaluated and went "okay I guess Mac is town" after the nutella flip, and then went and visited him with some miscellaneous town positive role.

What's the story for JPIC? I don't see it. JPIC was happy to accept both me and Mac as top town. There wasn't the seed of distrust there that would lead to a paranoid investigate.

The other possibility, of course, is that maybe sprityo and JPIC both did something bad to Mac. It could easily be that the three actions were postcap, doctor, and nightkill, with JPIC/sprityo being one mafia one rogue. That's a possibility too. But JPIC's scum in all the plausible worlds I can think of, while sprityo is only scum in some worlds. That is why I am voting him.

If Nanook docced do you think he'd have bought JPIC's claim?

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:34 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:16 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:12 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:05 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:59 am Oddmerta, let's put aside our differences for a minute...

If JPIC carried the night kill and tried to get Mac...who was the doctor?
Nanook or Spirit, could be as I said before that protection might come at the price of being postcapped.

Could be Mac didn't get blasted and jpic is a mafia role cop, nutella claimed doc and they kinda were.

Jpic being a cop that can claim without restriction, checking Mac of all people and generally being one the scummiest players in the game is more than enough for me to exe
If Nanook was the doc why would he believe JPIC's claim? Wouldn't he be thinking "I docced him, that's why he's alive, and you are making up crazy shit here"?
I prefer to think of you as the hardest working scum because otherwise you are the most counterproductive townie.
Don't try to do me any favors, because I would have to be the dumbest wolf on the planet (pro tip: I'm not) to be reminding everyone that if JPIC is fake claiming it will be glaringly obvious in a day or two...well before end game...when the most likely person for lolwillage to chop instead is...oh, yeah...me.

And as to me being a "counterproductive townie"...I don't try to brown nose town cores. Your whole "look at the consensus reads I'm spitting out, I must be town" schtick is something I could do in my sleep if I were a wolf, so I'm not impressed and won't pretend I am just to make Mac happy.

But it is interesting how you changed the subject.
When jpic flips mafia, which he will, you have to be vigged because it is not worth using an investigation or a day phase on you

Truth be told given what you claim to believe killing JPIC first is absolutely stupid if you are town, but you do you.

Save posts Mac.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:52 am maybe sprit/jpic is just mafia + rogue and they both went for the obvious target N1 and then hero nanook saved mac or something

I just can't see Nanook leaping on that claim so quickly positive if he had docced Mac. No one bought that claim. (anyone who is saying "wait, you did Tim" go look again) Of all people, why would a doctor Nanook?

JPIC isn't going anywhere if he is a fake claiming wolf. He's not going to get skipped for the NK a couple times and have the town just forget to kill him. I really think it is just an obvious mistake to rush into chopping him when there is plenty of POE and plenty of wolves.

I also don't really buy the "w!JPIC role cop." Why in the world would the wolves send a role cop to check on Mac? They have to know that they are gonna NK Mac, probably soon, whether he has a strong role or not. What difference would knowing his role make?

On the other hand, I think Sprit is a really good candidate for the post capping...and I really don't think the post capping thing was worth the risk to do for a wolf if that was all that it was.

I really think the town should kill Sprit here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:17 am Tim is there any passive ability in your role? As in do you have anything in your that just happens every night regardless of you acting?

I believe you successfully used a night action last night yes?

It would be helpful for me if you full claimed.

I have a passive ability IF we ever get to the point where the civilians make up less than 59.9% of the population. That's probably LYLO. I don't ever expect to get into that mess and I don't think I'd live to see it if we did...but just in case we do it COULD actually tip the game heavily into town's favor and I don't want to say what it is.

60-69.9% I have a descent investigative role

Currently (70-79.9%)-I have a pissy investigative role which I used on Ted that didn't tell me anything useful.

If the population reaches above 80% civilian I get a tiebreaking vote.

In the grand scheme of things unless I am among the last townies standing my role is not that helpful, which is why I was willing to give up my song title to test Nutella's claim, should that have been what the town wanted to do...I was also looking at her claim as "if true that's really good" so I didn't feel a real powerful urge to self press, and seriously it wasn't close anyway...and I also think that if y'all are just committed to the idea that I'm a wolf you really should just chop me and let JPIC force the wolves to NK him or not before you chop him; an alignment cop is way too powerful (if true) to just chop out of hand.

And I think for a wolf (very probably Sprit) to risk visiting you just to cap your posts would be a very high risk/low reward thing to do N1. I think the way Nutella's role card revealed added to what she claimed is a very good reason to worry that there was more to that than just post capping and that allowing Sprit to get his N2 action off might be bad for you.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:45 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:42 am Currently (70-79.9%)-I have a pissy investigative role which I used on Ted that didn't tell me anything useful.
What were you planning to draw out of me by asking the questions that you asked towards me?

You were softing a roleblock, not an investigative.

I was softing motion detect actually.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:46 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:45 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:42 am Currently (70-79.9%)-I have a pissy investigative role which I used on Ted that didn't tell me anything useful.
What were you planning to draw out of me by asking the questions that you asked towards me?

You were softing a roleblock, not an investigative.
I was softing motion detect actually.

Which, as stated, in what is obviously an "almost everyone is moving around" is a really pissy investigative role.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 am I think if Mac was notified of a bad action going through on him then it is mechanically correct to just sort in the 3-way.

Well, he did apparently get post capped by somebody.

Do you think it is mechanically correct to give the claimed alignment cop a night phase or two to get killed by the wolves if he's real?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:55 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:53 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 am I think if Mac was notified of a bad action going through on him then it is mechanically correct to just sort in the 3-way.
Well, he did apparently get post capped by somebody.

Do you think it is mechanically correct to give the claimed alignment cop a night phase or two to get killed by the wolves if he's real?
I don't think he's an alignment cop, I think he's specifically a mafia role cop.

He had Mac as villager, peeking him for alignment makes no sense.

Role peeking him as a wolf makes even less.

I actually can see benefit in getting a mech clear on the obvious town leader, even if he is town read by the "town core." I'd have to balance that against clearing some spriggan out of the POE, but I'd consider it.

On the other hand, if I'm a wolf and I know Mac is not a wolf and I know he is solidly town cored I already know I have to NK him. I use my role cop to role fish among the people who are in the "might lurk around for a while but might be a PR" category.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:07 am Regardless, he still has yet to give an explanation as to why he decided to 180 on Mac and peek him instead of literally anybody else or his scum leans if he ever had some.

Yeah I am not arguing that.

Look at it this way:

A bunch of people are town reading Alison, including I think both of us. A good number of those have outright said "gonna sheep Alison" so in reality she is pretty much gonna call the chops until either she gets NKed or serious tinfoil accumulates. Wouldn't it be nice to have a mech clear there? Wouldn't you feel more comfortable about seeing "oh I'm just gonna sheep Alison" that way?

As I said, I dunno for sure what I'd do as an alignment cop, but I can't really rule out checking a town leader on the just in case program.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:14 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:12 am A bunch of people are town reading Alison, including I think both of us. A good number of those have outright said "gonna sheep Alison" so in reality she is pretty much gonna call the chops until either she gets NKed or serious tinfoil accumulates. Wouldn't it be nice to have a mech clear there? Wouldn't you feel more comfortable about seeing "oh I'm just gonna sheep Alison" that way?
No, 75% of the time it self resolves until YeLo, at which point you start worrying.

Maybe. I worry about being lead a long way down a wrong path while I wait for things to self resolve.

But overall I'm just more immediately worried about what Sprit may be up to than JPICs dubious claim. If he's bad we know it day three, or day four at the latest.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:58 pm
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:38 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 am Only 1 wagon dies today Mac, not 2.

We have 2 votes but the top vote getter gets yeeted.
Yes I was explicitly notified that I was post capped. I have reason to believe I was hit with another separate negative night action.

I know we have one yeet (though I would like someone to actually very bluntly state how we know this because I'm not entirely sure) hence why I said vig the other one. It does not matter. I am saying that we yeet one of them and it outs the other's alignment even if we pick wrong. The chance of there being not mafia between them is very low because Nanook has chosen to vote for Sprityo essentially thunderdoming him vs. Sprityo. That he acted first is a good look for him, but that he had zero votes on him until I voted there is not so essentially we need to just yeet the scummier one. In my view that's Sprityo.

I think JPIC is literally just mafia anyway regardless. I don't see two town PR going onto me n1. I was not jailkept clearly. I already caught a watch from Hally. I wouldn't have been tracked (probably wasn't copped). I probably was doctored, but it wasn't JPIC or he'd have just claimed that. In actuality him not claiming doc there is probably confirmation that I actually WAS doctored because it's a much safer and more reasonable claim.

Even if I think JPIC is literally mafia, we only have one yeet today and it's better for the gamestate that we flip one of the others because JPIC self resolves if he is somehow real and from my perspective he's not the only one near lock to be mafia, I think Sprityo is also near lock to be mafia.

I think we flip Sprityo. If he flips mafia it essentially clears Nanook. JPIC probably doesn't die even if he's real because the mafia need us to yeet him tomorrow so they will trade him getting another confirm (or out).

Note in the event of my death: If JPIC does not get a cop check tomorrow, gets yeeted and genuinely flips cop, turbo yeet Tim. 100% without questioning this. Tim essentially would be outed by virtue of encouraging the town to bring through a realcop to the next day knowing that said cop isn't going to get a shot off.
i do not agree w/this line of reasoning. we can say with near 100% certainty that JPIC is scum, so we should yeet him. it's that simple. it's a mistake to prioritize mechanics over scumhunting, and mechanics should not influence our votes when we have a near-confirmed scum in our midst

spirit is probably scum too fwiw, i just do not consider this a convincing argument to not lynch JPIC

I don't think anyone has suggested "don't chop JPIC." I have suggested and gotten some agreement for "don't chop JPIC today."

Ultimately we have yet to see any proof that there is extra kill power in the hands of the town. The town seems to be widely convinced that there are three "outed wolves." Without extra kill power it will take through day four just to kill them all. Wolf hunters in this town just way too smart and efficient apparently. That's all fine so long as it is right.

But here's the thing...right or wrong the wolves are not going to NK me for you. Whether town is right or wrong the wolves are not gonna NK Sprityo. But at least if you are wrong about JPIC the wolves might be inclined to help out and save you a mischop there. Don't "prioritize mechanics over scumhunting," but it seems wise to acknowledge that you can't kill the wolves as fast as you currently think you are finding them.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:34 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:58 pm
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:38 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 am Only 1 wagon dies today Mac, not 2.

We have 2 votes but the top vote getter gets yeeted.
Yes I was explicitly notified that I was post capped. I have reason to believe I was hit with another separate negative night action.

I know we have one yeet (though I would like someone to actually very bluntly state how we know this because I'm not entirely sure) hence why I said vig the other one. It does not matter. I am saying that we yeet one of them and it outs the other's alignment even if we pick wrong. The chance of there being not mafia between them is very low because Nanook has chosen to vote for Sprityo essentially thunderdoming him vs. Sprityo. That he acted first is a good look for him, but that he had zero votes on him until I voted there is not so essentially we need to just yeet the scummier one. In my view that's Sprityo.

I think JPIC is literally just mafia anyway regardless. I don't see two town PR going onto me n1. I was not jailkept clearly. I already caught a watch from Hally. I wouldn't have been tracked (probably wasn't copped). I probably was doctored, but it wasn't JPIC or he'd have just claimed that. In actuality him not claiming doc there is probably confirmation that I actually WAS doctored because it's a much safer and more reasonable claim.

Even if I think JPIC is literally mafia, we only have one yeet today and it's better for the gamestate that we flip one of the others because JPIC self resolves if he is somehow real and from my perspective he's not the only one near lock to be mafia, I think Sprityo is also near lock to be mafia.

I think we flip Sprityo. If he flips mafia it essentially clears Nanook. JPIC probably doesn't die even if he's real because the mafia need us to yeet him tomorrow so they will trade him getting another confirm (or out).

Note in the event of my death: If JPIC does not get a cop check tomorrow, gets yeeted and genuinely flips cop, turbo yeet Tim. 100% without questioning this. Tim essentially would be outed by virtue of encouraging the town to bring through a realcop to the next day knowing that said cop isn't going to get a shot off.
i do not agree w/this line of reasoning. we can say with near 100% certainty that JPIC is scum, so we should yeet him. it's that simple. it's a mistake to prioritize mechanics over scumhunting, and mechanics should not influence our votes when we have a near-confirmed scum in our midst

spirit is probably scum too fwiw, i just do not consider this a convincing argument to not lynch JPIC
I don't think anyone has suggested "don't chop JPIC." I have suggested and gotten some agreement for "don't chop JPIC today."

Ultimately we have yet to see any proof that there is extra kill power in the hands of the town. The town seems to be widely convinced that there are three "outed wolves." Without extra kill power it will take through day four just to kill them all. Wolf hunters in this town just way too smart and efficient apparently. That's all fine so long as it is right.

But here's the thing...right or wrong the wolves are not going to NK me for you. Whether town is right or wrong the wolves are not gonna NK Sprityo. But at least if you are wrong about JPIC the wolves might be inclined to help out and save you a mischop there. Don't "prioritize mechanics over scumhunting," but it seems wise to acknowledge that you can't kill the wolves as fast as you currently think you are finding them.
i understand this, but i do consider not chopping JPIC today to be favoring mechanics over scumhunting since the primary argument for not doing it is: "if he is real, the mafia will probably have to kill him".

that argument holds no water for me because i think he's scum, and i would much rather lynch someone i'm confident is scum and let us get more information during the night instead of chopping outside and letting the scum live when we have zero idea what kind of ability he may have. if we have a scum, we should chop it

Sounds good. I think Sprit seems just as likely to be a wolf and just as likely if not more to have a dangerous ability so I'm much more inclined to chop there first and see if JPIC gets sorted before I get to him, but if you only have one wolf to work with you are making the best move for you.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:43 pm nutella really spent a lot of time shitposting

Ask around. That wasn't shitposting, that was critical townspewing that cleared everyone but the wolves. Easy game.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:49 pm How did i get to 10 votes

By acting like a wolf.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:52 pm But im the cop

It's 2020, the cops are always wolves and everyone knows it.

More seriously, very few people in the game seem to relate to the idea that mech clearing Mac had any merit at all, which makes your claim seem very far fetched. We're also in this gamestate of "Nutella claimed doc and we chopped her anyway and look how good that turned out." So I think you are probably just stuck as far as claiming not getting you off the blocks.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:25 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:48 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:34 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:58 pm
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:38 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 am Only 1 wagon dies today Mac, not 2.

We have 2 votes but the top vote getter gets yeeted.
Yes I was explicitly notified that I was post capped. I have reason to believe I was hit with another separate negative night action.

I know we have one yeet (though I would like someone to actually very bluntly state how we know this because I'm not entirely sure) hence why I said vig the other one. It does not matter. I am saying that we yeet one of them and it outs the other's alignment even if we pick wrong. The chance of there being not mafia between them is very low because Nanook has chosen to vote for Sprityo essentially thunderdoming him vs. Sprityo. That he acted first is a good look for him, but that he had zero votes on him until I voted there is not so essentially we need to just yeet the scummier one. In my view that's Sprityo.

I think JPIC is literally just mafia anyway regardless. I don't see two town PR going onto me n1. I was not jailkept clearly. I already caught a watch from Hally. I wouldn't have been tracked (probably wasn't copped). I probably was doctored, but it wasn't JPIC or he'd have just claimed that. In actuality him not claiming doc there is probably confirmation that I actually WAS doctored because it's a much safer and more reasonable claim.

Even if I think JPIC is literally mafia, we only have one yeet today and it's better for the gamestate that we flip one of the others because JPIC self resolves if he is somehow real and from my perspective he's not the only one near lock to be mafia, I think Sprityo is also near lock to be mafia.

I think we flip Sprityo. If he flips mafia it essentially clears Nanook. JPIC probably doesn't die even if he's real because the mafia need us to yeet him tomorrow so they will trade him getting another confirm (or out).

Note in the event of my death: If JPIC does not get a cop check tomorrow, gets yeeted and genuinely flips cop, turbo yeet Tim. 100% without questioning this. Tim essentially would be outed by virtue of encouraging the town to bring through a realcop to the next day knowing that said cop isn't going to get a shot off.
i do not agree w/this line of reasoning. we can say with near 100% certainty that JPIC is scum, so we should yeet him. it's that simple. it's a mistake to prioritize mechanics over scumhunting, and mechanics should not influence our votes when we have a near-confirmed scum in our midst

spirit is probably scum too fwiw, i just do not consider this a convincing argument to not lynch JPIC
I don't think anyone has suggested "don't chop JPIC." I have suggested and gotten some agreement for "don't chop JPIC today."

Ultimately we have yet to see any proof that there is extra kill power in the hands of the town. The town seems to be widely convinced that there are three "outed wolves." Without extra kill power it will take through day four just to kill them all. Wolf hunters in this town just way too smart and efficient apparently. That's all fine so long as it is right.

But here's the thing...right or wrong the wolves are not going to NK me for you. Whether town is right or wrong the wolves are not gonna NK Sprityo. But at least if you are wrong about JPIC the wolves might be inclined to help out and save you a mischop there. Don't "prioritize mechanics over scumhunting," but it seems wise to acknowledge that you can't kill the wolves as fast as you currently think you are finding them.
i understand this, but i do consider not chopping JPIC today to be favoring mechanics over scumhunting since the primary argument for not doing it is: "if he is real, the mafia will probably have to kill him".

that argument holds no water for me because i think he's scum, and i would much rather lynch someone i'm confident is scum and let us get more information during the night instead of chopping outside and letting the scum live when we have zero idea what kind of ability he may have. if we have a scum, we should chop it
Sounds good. I think Sprit seems just as likely to be a wolf and just as likely if not more to have a dangerous ability so I'm much more inclined to chop there first and see if JPIC gets sorted before I get to him, but if you only have one wolf to work with you are making the best move for you.
why does spirit seem just as likely to be a wolf as JPIC to you? i do think spirit is scummy and probably a wolf but i consider JPIC borderline confirmed

Because Sprit seems like a good candidate to have post capped Mac of the three people Hally recorded attending the party at Mac's house.

I think if JPIC was "wolf post capper" he would have made a different claim than "alignment cop." I think if Nanook was "wolf post capper" he'd have stayed away from Mac altogether. So Sprityo.

Nothing Sprityo has said about his role, or why he would visit Mac, has done anything to change that. In fact, his "I don't wanna see ten pages..." post kinda supports the idea that he's thinking about post cappy type things.

And I do stand by the idea that in this game "you are a post capper" seems like a very underpowered role to hand some poor wolf. Post cap them one night, get an extra kill by visiting them again seems plausible. That seems worth the risk of visiting Mac. That's why I think he's the better first kill here.

Admittedly, JPIC could be "the post cap killer" and seized on "well I'm caught so best I can do is play to get through one night and make this kill." Claiming alignment cop might be seen as the best one night life pass. But that leaves the question of what Sprityo was doing there? Four people visited Mac. The one that seems most inclined to malice towards Mac is Sprityo. It just seems simplest to take the known malicious act and assign it to the most likely to be malicious person.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:51 pm why would nanook have stayed away from mac if he were wolf capper, tim?

PR dodging. If all that power does is post cap somebody, I don't go near anyone who is an obvious possibility for watchering...Mac was. Truth be told if all the power does is post cap somebody I probably just holster and try to stay out of trouble. That's why I think there has to be more to it than just post capping.

Nanook is aware enough about game states that I think a w!Nanook with some sort of two visit kill hits someone lower profile.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:57 pm
Spoiler: show
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:49 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:25 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:48 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:34 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:58 pm
Spoiler: show
i do not agree w/this line of reasoning. we can say with near 100% certainty that JPIC is scum, so we should yeet him. it's that simple. it's a mistake to prioritize mechanics over scumhunting, and mechanics should not influence our votes when we have a near-confirmed scum in our midst

spirit is probably scum too fwiw, i just do not consider this a convincing argument to not lynch JPIC
I don't think anyone has suggested "don't chop JPIC." I have suggested and gotten some agreement for "don't chop JPIC today."

Ultimately we have yet to see any proof that there is extra kill power in the hands of the town. The town seems to be widely convinced that there are three "outed wolves." Without extra kill power it will take through day four just to kill them all. Wolf hunters in this town just way too smart and efficient apparently. That's all fine so long as it is right.

But here's the thing...right or wrong the wolves are not going to NK me for you. Whether town is right or wrong the wolves are not gonna NK Sprityo. But at least if you are wrong about JPIC the wolves might be inclined to help out and save you a mischop there. Don't "prioritize mechanics over scumhunting," but it seems wise to acknowledge that you can't kill the wolves as fast as you currently think you are finding them.
i understand this, but i do consider not chopping JPIC today to be favoring mechanics over scumhunting since the primary argument for not doing it is: "if he is real, the mafia will probably have to kill him".

that argument holds no water for me because i think he's scum, and i would much rather lynch someone i'm confident is scum and let us get more information during the night instead of chopping outside and letting the scum live when we have zero idea what kind of ability he may have. if we have a scum, we should chop it
Sounds good. I think Sprit seems just as likely to be a wolf and just as likely if not more to have a dangerous ability so I'm much more inclined to chop there first and see if JPIC gets sorted before I get to him, but if you only have one wolf to work with you are making the best move for you.
why does spirit seem just as likely to be a wolf as JPIC to you? i do think spirit is scummy and probably a wolf but i consider JPIC borderline confirmed
Because Sprit seems like a good candidate to have post capped Mac of the three people Hally recorded attending the party at Mac's house.

I think if JPIC was "wolf post capper" he would have made a different claim than "alignment cop." I think if Nanook was "wolf post capper" he'd have stayed away from Mac altogether. So Sprityo.

Nothing Sprityo has said about his role, or why he would visit Mac, has done anything to change that. In fact, his "I don't wanna see ten pages..." post kinda supports the idea that he's thinking about post cappy type things.

And I do stand by the idea that in this game "you are a post capper" seems like a very underpowered role to hand some poor wolf. Post cap them one night, get an extra kill by visiting them again seems plausible. That seems worth the risk of visiting Mac. That's why I think he's the better first kill here.

Admittedly, JPIC could be "the post cap killer" and seized on "well I'm caught so best I can do is play to get through one night and make this kill." Claiming alignment cop might be seen as the best one night life pass. But that leaves the question of what Sprityo was doing there? Four people visited Mac. The one that seems most inclined to malice towards Mac is Sprityo. It just seems simplest to take the known malicious act and assign it to the most likely to be malicious person.

these are legitimate points, but i consider them moreso arguments for why spirit is more likely to be the post capper as opposed to arguments for why spirit is more likely to be scum. i don't see a need to specifically search for the post capper today as much as i see a need to search for scum in general - and if im searching for scum in general, then JPIC is the most obvious answer

I have trouble picturing the post capping as a town power. And I have real trouble picturing it as a town power that anyone goes into the teeth with by targeting Mac. All the reasons I would have either holstered or gone somewhere else with that power if I had it as a wolf apply if I had it as town, in spades.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:03 pm @Timsup2nothin you say if JPIC were the post capper he would not have claimed cop. Why not? What do you think he would have claimed?

Post capper? Some form of protective role with a bad side effect. Something that doesn't immediately draw a night kill and if it doesn't then gets him autochopped. Like, almost anything but alignment cop. There has been some speculation that a mafia role cop, thinking "get close to the truth" maybe claims alignment cop there, and that makes sense...even though I personally see no reason whatever why a mafia role cop targets Mac in the first place. But the jump from 'mafia post capper' to 'claim town cop' is pretty extreme.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:07 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:06 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:57 pm
Spoiler: show
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:49 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:25 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:48 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:34 pm

i understand this, but i do consider not chopping JPIC today to be favoring mechanics over scumhunting since the primary argument for not doing it is: "if he is real, the mafia will probably have to kill him".

that argument holds no water for me because i think he's scum, and i would much rather lynch someone i'm confident is scum and let us get more information during the night instead of chopping outside and letting the scum live when we have zero idea what kind of ability he may have. if we have a scum, we should chop it
Sounds good. I think Sprit seems just as likely to be a wolf and just as likely if not more to have a dangerous ability so I'm much more inclined to chop there first and see if JPIC gets sorted before I get to him, but if you only have one wolf to work with you are making the best move for you.
why does spirit seem just as likely to be a wolf as JPIC to you? i do think spirit is scummy and probably a wolf but i consider JPIC borderline confirmed
Because Sprit seems like a good candidate to have post capped Mac of the three people Hally recorded attending the party at Mac's house.

I think if JPIC was "wolf post capper" he would have made a different claim than "alignment cop." I think if Nanook was "wolf post capper" he'd have stayed away from Mac altogether. So Sprityo.

Nothing Sprityo has said about his role, or why he would visit Mac, has done anything to change that. In fact, his "I don't wanna see ten pages..." post kinda supports the idea that he's thinking about post cappy type things.

And I do stand by the idea that in this game "you are a post capper" seems like a very underpowered role to hand some poor wolf. Post cap them one night, get an extra kill by visiting them again seems plausible. That seems worth the risk of visiting Mac. That's why I think he's the better first kill here.

Admittedly, JPIC could be "the post cap killer" and seized on "well I'm caught so best I can do is play to get through one night and make this kill." Claiming alignment cop might be seen as the best one night life pass. But that leaves the question of what Sprityo was doing there? Four people visited Mac. The one that seems most inclined to malice towards Mac is Sprityo. It just seems simplest to take the known malicious act and assign it to the most likely to be malicious person.

these are legitimate points, but i consider them moreso arguments for why spirit is more likely to be the post capper as opposed to arguments for why spirit is more likely to be scum. i don't see a need to specifically search for the post capper today as much as i see a need to search for scum in general - and if im searching for scum in general, then JPIC is the most obvious answer
I have trouble picturing the post capping as a town power. And I have real trouble picturing it as a town power that anyone goes into the teeth with by targeting Mac. All the reasons I would have either holstered or gone somewhere else with that power if I had it as a wolf apply if I had it as town, in spades.
how about a town role that does something positive in return of a minor inconvenience - post capping one of the top d1 posters?

I had that as a strong possibility until everyone involved had had plenty of opportunity to talk. Some sort of protective role with a side effect seems plausible. But imo a town person with a good role that "carries a price" says so. Even if they are barred from flat claiming or info dumping they can get the idea across. No one tried, so I moved away from the town role with side effects concept.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:09 pm nanook interactions

Spoiler: show
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:07 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:04 am i'm good i guess

who are woofs
I think my list is alison/LC/herm

I don’t remember who the fourth was nutella maybe?
this was the second post after his RNG to make a wolf list. kind of interesting nutella was the one he had a harder time remembering

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:21 pm @nutella is there an MU-ism that amounts to ThEy’Re AvOiDiNg EnGaGeMeNt ??
nothing interactions with nutella. interesting he only pings her.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:47 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:46 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:44 pm SPF LOCK TOWN NEVER RECONSIDER
oh no
OH LOOK I FOUND A MAFIA TWO, ITS A TWO FOR ONE

MUCH LIKE A HALF CUP OF LOBSTER BISQUE AND A LOBSTER ROLL
more interactions that don't do anything

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:48 pm [VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

TAKE YOUR FRENCH ONION SOUP TO THE GRAVE CAUSE WE WONT EAT IT
votes based off it

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:02 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:00 am Uh oh.

Thats 24 more pages than when I last left off. I see Hazelnut is in the lead with votes. Do tell why?
She likes French onion soup
and continues to repeat the same joke as time progresses

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:58 pm I uh

Actually think nutella is >rand town

I don’t super confidently believe it but her treatment of Jules, while kind of shitty, I think comes from town more often than mafia
tried to defend her case on jules

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:24 pm Oh man dya caught us nutella, our plan for me to wait to defend you until you had 11 votes didn’t work, dang, maybe we should just concede now
and is snarky at me specifically because I listed them together. but I think nanook is a bold enough player that this kind of thing doesn't mean as much

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:27 pm I don’t understand why we’re even talking about killing nutella today what

Like obviously it’s correct not to c’mon guys
more defense

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:38 pm I don’t love a tim vote but it’s better than Nutella
and more

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:39 pm Inb4 Nutella flips mafia/rogue with a soup kill

sprit comments

Spoiler: show
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:19 am I have a genuine townread of Sprit

Someone send help

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:32 pm It’s more than four hours and I’m still townreading sprit, wtf am I supposed to do with this
if spirit is mafia, i think nanook can be too. this read was never explained
i think nanook could easily be with nutella

I think some "defense of Nutella" may just be buy in on the mechanics of dealing with a doc claim. Can't really say let him off that hook since plenty of people have me as "lock wolf, never rescind" for basically the same thing, but it is a consideration.

Seems pretty clear to me there is one wolf in JPIC, Nanook, and Sprit...some sort of post capper leading to...I dunno what. Bsed off day one interactions with Mac it seems to me the most likely candidate to be there doing him harm is Sprityo.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 pm Okay so I've realised some more things and I can't really go into too much detail without getting mod-killed but...

If Hally really did watch all three of them onto me, which seems a foregone conclusion. There are at least 2 mafia, maybe even 3 mafia, between Nanook, JPIC, Sprityo and Tim. I won't go into detail why Tim is in this group.

I know this isn't groundbreaking given the state of the POE and the game, but it IS groundbreaking in the sense that it means that town should just not waver from yeeting through these four in order/rain town PR onto them regardless of if we flip a town along the way. Stay the course. Please do not forget I said this and come out tomorrow after we choose wrong today and I flip tinfoiling onto SPF or some dumb shit. There is literally never less than two mafia in this group of four. There is never more than two town. I believe the most likely scenario is that it is actually three mafia, or two mafia and a rogue.

Also, since mafia put PR on me (post capper), it's very likely that I didn't have mafia KP on me. It is POSSIBLE that I had rogue KP on me though. But I think I had TWO mafia PR on me that were not KP in which case for there to also be rogue KP on me means I would have died (because only three people targeted me not including Hally, so there would be no protection against Rogue KP). So I don't think I had rogue KP on me. So I think that one of the three that targeted me probably targeted me with a town role. Of the four JPIC has hard claimed a strong investigative role which is just incredibly likely fake. Sprityo has claimed that he is allowed to infodump as has Tim. Only Nook has held his claim in a way that vibes with my understanding of how Sloonei is managing infodumping and roleclaiming.

Sprityo and JPIC both have major mafia equitty. But given JPIC has claimed cop we simply have to yeet Sprityo first.

Here are my rules. Flip Sprityo first. If he flips mafia assume Nook is town. If JPIC comes out with a green (or a really bad/unlikely red check infoyeet him). Only let JPIC target inside the POE. Only yeet Nook if Sprityo is town. Once you solve through these players always go Tim next regardless of what happened because I believe he is just mafia in all worlds, particularly a world where JPIC flips town.

@Justplayingitcool if you do survive today you are to check between the below players only. Do not reveal who you are checking. If you survive the night and out a check on anyone who isn't one of these three you are to be YEETED WITHOUT QUESTION.

Tutuu
Master Radishes
SPF

That is because these are names that have genuine potential to be deepwolfing and we have no mech on. We need mech on them. I'd personally rather put PC on here than SPF but it seems more people are scumreading SPF so it's better for thread health if we get mech on SPF than PC. Herm is not on here because I don't think Herm is a risk to endgame if they are mafia. I think we are going to yeet them at some point unless town wins earlier than we need to.

tl;dr

Tim is 99% mafia. Never let him survive this game. Ever.
JPIC is 95% likely to be mafia. Only let him survive if he outs a red check on one of the three names I've forced him to check in.
Sprityo is 95% likely to be mafia. He is only town in the world where Nook and JPIC are both mafia.
Nook is only mafia if at least one of the other three flips town, and lock mafia if two do. If there are two mafia between Tim/JPIC and Sprityo, Nook is cleared fmpov.
I really, really would prefer that we yeet Tim or Sprityo today over JPIC. I believe that it is always optimal no matter how batshit crazy JPIC's claim seems because I think they are both just as scummy as he is. The fact that he has a batshit crazy claim doesn't matter when he self resolves and they do not self resolve. FMPOV those three players are essentially equally likely to flip mafia (Tim slightly more likely), so JPIC gets to go last because he had the balls to claim Cop.

Please bookmark this post and use it as a guide in the following days please please please please.

Some things I strongly agree with, a couple that I don't.

One, the "Tim is always mafia" I actually just know is wrong. I also find the argument weak. Should I be suspect? Absolutely. I bought into a bad claim and protected a wolf. That has consequences. But I'm not the first town ever to have done that so this "everything he says is wolf" confbiasing is weak. Not important, just sayin'.

Two, I do not see two non-killing wolves just stopping by Mac's house to party. There was a really good chance for Mac to draw watching. A really good power like a two visit kill...risk getting seen maybe. Two wolves risking being seen? Nah. Kill a wolf among JPIC, Sprit, and Nanook, ABSOLUTELY. If it takes killing all three of them to find the wolf that sux, but yes gotta see that through. The whole "all the wolves came for me" self aggrandizement is just ego.

Three, I dunno what's up with the third party, but I kinda tilt away from them wanting to fly straight into the teeth of very likely surveillance right out the gate N1.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:52 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:22 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:04 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:03 pm I don’t think broseph was the NK anymore so I don’t think my refusing to claim has utility at this point

If I target the NK I get an extra vote the next day
if he wasn't the NK then there is no longer mech conf scum in hally's trio just saying

should still yeet there maybe but
This is false. I was specifically hit with a negative night action with potentially TWO negative night actions. I am 100% not the NK target because mafia won't put PR AND a NK on me. They put a post cap PR on me.

From anyone's perspective but mine there is always at least one mafia between the three caught visiting me.

The only world in which you think that there is no mafia in the three is the world in which I am lying about being post capped or you think the post capper is a townie.
mafia having a post capper role is just silly to me. "let me go ahead and minorly inconvenience this guy, and risk myself getting tracked/watched to visit him hehehe im so smart hehehe"

Whatever that role is I think it just HAS to be two parts...and if they visit Mac again Mac is gonna be dead.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:45 pm nanook's claim good

Maybe. I'd be inclined to holster that rather than trying for just a one time extra vote. "Try to visit the NK" is just ASKING to be witnessed at a crime scene and cause confusion for town and heartache for yourself. I would have expected Nanook to know better than to play into that, honestly.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:06 pm It’s every night not one shot

The reward is one shot though, right? You guess right on the NK to get an extra vote the next day. So every night you are forced to risk causing confusion for town watchers and heartache for yourself by trying to show up at a crime scene, and if you do actually happen to show up at the crime scene you get this trivial reward. I'd just holster that, myself.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:07 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:58 pm
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:14 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:11 am @Oddmerta what's your beef with spf?
Probs a deepwolf, I'll have a hard time proving that one
lmfao
oddmerta is an achro alt

That would explain a lot.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:16 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:03 pm I don’t think broseph was the NK anymore so I don’t think my refusing to claim has utility at this point

If I target the NK I get an extra vote the next day
this is a weird role

It is, but I like it. 10/10, will steal. It is almost guaranteed to cause confusion and kneecap town investigative roles; which are often considered to be overpowered. I mean, demonstration in progress. You as watcher would be more effective without Nanook blundering about in the night.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 pm Anyone pushing any agenda that contains mafia trying to dodge watcher/tracker is at best reaching massively, at worst intentionally misunderstanding the gamestate. The mafia would have no idea that there's a watcher role in this game and if you have no idea you just play your role straight. I have played a lot of games and unless the game is open or we have confirmation of watcher we never, ever think to watcher dodge. That role is very rare.

Also I think the nature of Nook/JPIC/Sprityo's claims indicate that they were unaware that town investigatives have roleclaim restrictions, which means it's even more likely they have no clue about the nature of the town power in this game at least on night 1.

Tutuu is spending more time actively working against the agenda that town are trying to push than actually making any insightful solving content and has been doing it since about mid day 1. Despite having me lock town she has in essence been in lockstep with Tim trying to discredit my tactics and argue with all my pushes. If there is a deepwolf with this POE it's very, very likely her.

LOL...sorry that my lack of ass kissing comes across as "trying to discredit." I also think any unbiased observer would say that the claim "argue with all my pushes" is blatantly false. I have ABSOLUTELY AGREED that you were visited by a wolf. I fully understand that since you 99% believe I am a wolf that makes two in tim plus your three visitors for you. I think town should ABSOLUTELY find the wolf among your visitors. I also think town is certainly going to kill me. When they do and I flip green I think they would be silly to say "oh since Tim was a villager that means there must have been a second wolf visiting Mac." There is NO connection there. Your pool of four, from my POV, has only one in it...for very good reasons. The wolves weren't terrified into "we must gang up on Mac."

If you don't want to be argued with, don't make claims that don't make any sense.

Find the wolf in Mac's visitors. Kill me to get that out of the way and so I can make fun of Mac in spec chat. Move along. This is the way.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:24 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:38 pm @Hally thoughts on what I've posted about mac's visitors?
idk i just wanna kill them all

like i see no reason not to nuke all of sprit/jpic/nook and also tim in accordance with mac’s plan. they can all die

Do you really think the wolves would send three people, none with kill power, to visit Mac so that you could conveniently catch half their team in one pop?

I get wanting to find the wolf among them and kill, and I get that even if one or two townies get killed in the process that's a fair price...but "they all moved, I saw them, kill them all" seems kinda extreme.

BTW...mafia watcher posts up to look for a doctor while the kill power goes somewhere else is a valid strat. If somehow all three of these goofballs partying at Mac's turn out to be town, turbo Hally. I think that is incredibly unlikely, but it's a thing.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:32 pm The only reason JPIC needs to go second is in the meme ass universe in which he's real there's a chance to force the mafia to kill him tonight if the three names I've given him contain a mafia name. There is a chance they yolo and let him get his shot in, in which case if he's real and we discover it later it near confirms all three of those players to be town. The mafia simply can't risk letting JPIC get an accurate red check on a player that deep. If we can force the mafia to kill JPIC tonight that's a huge result for us. If they choose to let him survive it's a huge result for us. Basically it's only positive things for keeping him alive first because we're going to resolve all four anyway.

If JPIC ends up mafia and fakes a red check on one of those three names, he takes down a town that had deepwolf equity, that sucks, we turbo him anyway. If JPIC ends up mafia and green checks one of them we just entirely disregard it as wifom and read the person in other ways if we have to later.

If there is a single mafia name in that list and JPIC is real the mafia are going to try to yeet him today if he's town. Which would be a big missed opportunity for us for for little gain.
i mean like

mafia almost certainly have a roleblocker in a game like this so jpic won’t get a check if he’s town. they’ll just leave him alive and block him so we kill him for them. i don’t really see a world where we aren’t killing jpic tomorrow

I do. We kill Sprit today, which seems to me to be the most likely wolf at Mac's party. If we are wrong then tomorrow we have to decide between Nanook and JPIC or finally getting around to me since I will still be annoying the town core. I can definitely see JPIC lasting a while if town only gets one kill per day.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:47 pm I think the clear correct course of action here is to follow broseph’s plan to the letter

If it fails then we can yell at him later, but for now I think it’s almost certainly optimal to let him take us into his loving embrace and guide us to the promised land

Suck up.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:50 pm where im at is like

there are many ppl i tr either because of nut or because of their individually very towny

then there are a smaller group of ppl that imo have nothing really going for them

and i don’t really have any qualms eliminating every person in the bottom group and i probably won’t actually care much about the game until those ppl are all dead but i’ll probably be dead then too so idk

Not a bad take. I just think that if we flip Sprit and find a wolf...especially a wolf with some sort of power built upon post capping...that Nanook and JPIC then "have something going for them."

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:52 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:48 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:32 pm The only reason JPIC needs to go second is in the meme ass universe in which he's real there's a chance to force the mafia to kill him tonight if the three names I've given him contain a mafia name. There is a chance they yolo and let him get his shot in, in which case if he's real and we discover it later it near confirms all three of those players to be town. The mafia simply can't risk letting JPIC get an accurate red check on a player that deep. If we can force the mafia to kill JPIC tonight that's a huge result for us. If they choose to let him survive it's a huge result for us. Basically it's only positive things for keeping him alive first because we're going to resolve all four anyway.

If JPIC ends up mafia and fakes a red check on one of those three names, he takes down a town that had deepwolf equity, that sucks, we turbo him anyway. If JPIC ends up mafia and green checks one of them we just entirely disregard it as wifom and read the person in other ways if we have to later.

If there is a single mafia name in that list and JPIC is real the mafia are going to try to yeet him today if he's town. Which would be a big missed opportunity for us for for little gain.
i mean like

mafia almost certainly have a roleblocker in a game like this so jpic won’t get a check if he’s town. they’ll just leave him alive and block him so we kill him for them. i don’t really see a world where we aren’t killing jpic tomorrow
I do. We kill Sprit today, which seems to me to be the most likely wolf at Mac's party. If we are wrong then tomorrow we have to decide between Nanook and JPIC or finally getting around to me since I will still be annoying the town core. I can definitely see JPIC lasting a while if town only gets one kill per day.
jpic will never endgame. either he will be nk’d or yeeted. he isn’t long for this world

Wellll...no shit?

Him getting past tomorrow I think is very likely and in fact a good objective for town. Him making it to end game is absurd, but that isn't what we were talking about.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:57 pm
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:53 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:50 pm where im at is like

there are many ppl i tr either because of nut or because of their individually very towny

then there are a smaller group of ppl that imo have nothing really going for them

and i don’t really have any qualms eliminating every person in the bottom group and i probably won’t actually care much about the game until those ppl are all dead but i’ll probably be dead then too so idk
Not a bad take. I just think that if we flip Sprit and find a wolf...especially a wolf with some sort of power built upon post capping...that Nanook and JPIC then "have something going for them."
im probably still gonna advocate killing jpic even if sprit or nanook flips mafia

there is no way that jpic should still be alive on like D4 at the latest

I'd have said day five, unless some wealth of town kill power has emerged and eliminated a bunch of other prospects. But sure Sprit flipping wolf doesn't mean "well the wolves aren't killing the claimed cop, but let's just act like that's normal."

I think JPIC's claim, while in some ways absurd, is very conceivably true, so I think the wolves are going to get tired of burning their role blocker on him and just kill him. Especially since you can possibly watch JPIC and catch their role blocker. A watcher and an alignment cop is a brutal combination that has to be strongly dealt with...by faction kill in the hands of the most expendable wolf.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:08 pm what if we just killed everyone except me, mac, alison and spf? i think that could work

Curse of being town...the solution is always so obvious. Give me a twenty shot strongman vig gun on full auto I know I get a town win.

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:49 pm I'm thinking about two words. Delayed kill

Who you putting off killing?

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:35 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:55 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:49 pm I'm thinking about two words. Delayed kill
Who you putting off killing?
More like Mac is already dead, that's what the post cap really is. Jpic claiming cop as a delayed killer and you trying every dirty trick in the book to get another night out of him

I see you

Yeah, whatever. I already guessed that a two day kill could be in progress. I'm hoping it's Sprit and that chopping him prevents a second visit and salvages Mac. But that's just hoping for the best. You are obviously committed to doing nothing but spinning conspiracy theories about me...which builds your cred for as long as I'm still alive, so cool. Keep me alive as long as you can before you have to turn it all back in.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:09 am ok of course everything that I've read had little AI meaning

I just wanted to say if Tim's a wolf here I caught him first since page 7 or something and you're all sheep

that's all

Dude when I got to spec chat I was gonna blame everything on Oddmerta and Mac and leave you out of it.

JPIC, as one of the few people who gives your claim any credence at all I'd really appreciate it if you could maybe try to act like something other than a caught wolf here.

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:22 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:15 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:09 am ok of course everything that I've read had little AI meaning

I just wanted to say if Tim's a wolf here I caught him first since page 7 or something and you're all sheep

that's all
Dude when I got to spec chat I was gonna blame everything on Oddmerta and Mac and leave you out of it.

JPIC, as one of the few people who gives your claim any credence at all I'd really appreciate it if you could maybe try to act like something other than a caught wolf here.
You martyring yourself for your fellow wolves is admirable

I hope everyone is paying attention to the fact that without this endless tunneling you would be producing no content at all.

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:49 am @Timsup2nothin do u love me too

yup

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:58 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:53 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:50 pm where im at is like

there are many ppl i tr either because of nut or because of their individually very towny

then there are a smaller group of ppl that imo have nothing really going for them

and i don’t really have any qualms eliminating every person in the bottom group and i probably won’t actually care much about the game until those ppl are all dead but i’ll probably be dead then too so idk
Not a bad take. I just think that if we flip Sprit and find a wolf...especially a wolf with some sort of power built upon post capping...that Nanook and JPIC then "have something going for them."
"i am a wolf and my teammates are sprit and jpic"

That would be such a cool EZ game, wouldn't it? After you mischop me please do better.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:57 am I honestly think Tim's repeated attacks on Oddmerta is outing

And yet his attacks on me, which are ALL THAT HE DOES are towny. Hilarious.

dyachei wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:14 am is anyone else concerned by the complacency in the thread?

Yes absolutely. Unfortunately, the way I borked day one the only access I have to breaking it up is green flipping.

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