Return to “Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]”
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:21 pm Dizzy and Sabie’s ghost posts should probably be ignored game wise tbh, sabie for obvious reasons and dizzy because they didn’t flip. Not worth the wine.
They can still banter with us tho!
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:28 pm I understand the want to kill mac, I don’t super get the swing of attention away from the rabies team (see what I did there?)
You lot play weird
Though we do get legacy reads. We should be able to get pretty far into figuring out what Dizzy's real alignment is based on that information. Though I have a guess -- because I know exactly how I would be using that scum team's power allocation.NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:39 pmYeah that changes nothing lol. If they could role claim then sure, but you guys don’t play with thoseTonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:37 pmNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:21 pm Dizzy and Sabie’s ghost posts should probably be ignored game wise tbh, sabie for obvious reasons and dizzy because they didn’t flip. Not worth the wine.
They can still banter with us tho!
Dizzy can ghost claim win con. Which. I mean. Doesn't help, always claim town?
Anyone on either scum team could do this right now. I don't think they would. I also don't think many people are going for it?speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:53 pmOh, right, Multiball.NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:52 pmYes. Multiball.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:51 pm. . .NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:49 pm I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow
You're talking about even if Mac is scum, right?
And here I almost sorta agree with you.
This is a “self aware scum is still scum” thing. And if Turnip knows the other vegetable is scum, this is an easy look good post to make. Notably starts going after Radishes very early, calls a few Michelle posts out for possible distancing with both Radishes AND Colin. This is a good sign because only one of these things can be true and Radishes hasn’t flipped yet. Could be easily read as TMI, knowing that Radishes would flip scum that day BUT I think it’s safe to say not Team B from the attacks on Radishes. He turns to solid defense of Mac. Works well if paired with Mac but also I think if not -- if Team A truly thought Radishes were scum and Mac would not, they wouldn’t just let them fight as some have assumed. Turnip defending Sabie is good evidence of this.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:26 am I for one hate looking terrible but I'd rather lynch radish
This is a good post. I think it’s right. I also think it’s scummy.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:39 pmJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:57 amA judgement call based on what? Telepathy?Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:52 amIt's a judgment callJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:51 amOkay so what’s the difference between natural progression that isn’t posted to the thread and unnatural progression that just doesn’t exist?Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:49 am Civs don't necessarily need to show progression they're allowed to change their mind. That's what makes it look natural.What are you a robot? Humans have a complicated thoughtlife and not every word makes it onto the written page. You read between the lines.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:58 am It’s not on the thread. You can’t call something that doesn’t exist “a natural progression.”
I think
A few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:41 pm Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.
It’s about momentum — and making a statement.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:20 amSo you put your vote on me over 24 hours before EOD to stop sig from steamrolling to the lead but you don't want to lynch me though?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:17 amA few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:41 pm Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.
Seems a little bit strange to me.
I have been attempting to push 20+ other options. It hasn’t worked.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:27 amBoth are bad lynches, but you voted for me instead of attempting to push 20+ other options?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:25 amIt’s about momentum — and making a statement.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:20 amSo you put your vote on me over 24 hours before EOD to stop sig from steamrolling to the lead but you don't want to lynch me though?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:17 amA few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:41 pm Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.
Seems a little bit strange to me.
Sig lynch bad because Sig almost always on Team B AND I don’t even believe that.
Mac lynch bad because if Mac is scum then Mac is scum then what.
Both are bad lynches, but furthermore:
If Sig is bad, Mac is probably always bad. So lynch Mac first.
I’ll take personal accountability into account: I think Sig is town. I’m indifferent on you. I’m voting for you.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:37 am The way I am reading it is that TSP is attempting to use some sort of probability to justify his vote as opposed to actually taking personal accountability for a read, which is a scum mentality generally.
this is right.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:49 am Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.
If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.
show meMacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:42 amNo, he has strong teammate equity with both Sabie and Radishes based on interactions.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
Okay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
Meh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 amThat's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
And Sig too? Congrats you caught us?MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 amThis is a really strange take for anything other than a mafioso exactly teammates with Radishes and Sabie.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 amMeh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 amThat's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
Fears of the coronavirus have taken clear effects in the market. The Fed needs to cut the hot takes rate significantly to deal with this.
JJJ said no and Sloonei said inconclusive. I tend to lean inconclusive but I haven’t ISOed TexMex.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 amOkay, any likelihood he's on the radish team then, in which case Mac could still be on the master team?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 amOkay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
(Actually asking this, I don't remember anything specific about ted's equity or lack thereof with radish/sabie)
Im referring specifically to Nutella’s first post.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:44 amMr. Stark I know you're a billionaire Playboy genius but there's two mafia teams...TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 amOkay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
I didn’t say the words that I meant. If Sig is scum, it is generally agreed that their team targeted Mac night one and he didn’t die, prompting Sig’s attack on Mac which carries in a vacuum?nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 amThat's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
Well if Mac is right then I’d know the answer is no because I’m scum with Sig and Radishes and Sabienutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:46 amI feel like you know things. Like from a scum perspective.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:44 amJJJ said no and Sloonei said inconclusive. I tend to lean inconclusive but I haven’t ISOed TexMex.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 amOkay, any likelihood he's on the radish team then, in which case Mac could still be on the master team?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 amOkay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
(Actually asking this, I don't remember anything specific about ted's equity or lack thereof with radish/sabie)
Oh I seeMacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:48 amNo. You are acting like someone who absolutely knows that sig isn't on that team. Otherwise you wouldn't be chaining yourself to him like this.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 amAnd Sig too? Congrats you caught us?MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 amThis is a really strange take for anything other than a mafioso exactly teammates with Radishes and Sabie.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 amMeh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 amThat's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
Maybe then I don’t understand your point. I thought part of your case was that Ted was in some way trying to genuinely read Mac? That he wasn’t sure of his alignment?Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:50 amThen I'm sorry that you don't comprehend her salient pointTonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:45 amIm referring specifically to Nutella’s first post.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:44 amMr. Stark I know you're a billionaire Playboy genius but there's two mafia teams...TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 amOkay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
So then why in the name of all holy things would we ever lynch Sig over Mac?
But I’m saying that doesn’t make sense - Nutella’s post specifically says that she could see Ted as scum if Mac wasn’t on the Master team. But then Ted would be on the Master team and wouldn’t have to think about Mac being scum because there is almost no chance that Mac is on the AM team.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:54 am @TonyStarkPrime
Yes because Ted is bad and unsure if Mac is on the other team, but leaning towards him not being in the other tean
No that’s exactly my point
Explain it one more time slowly it is late and I am tired
It’s already me and Ted get a new scum teamJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:48 amThey were really long so I’m going to wait until Mac flips town before nothing with that. Cause if Mac is a wolf (and Sig is as well), this is the theory that Ted is exactly the last Antimonitor wolf. And I townread Ted off meta and general mindset.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
So this looks less like that and more like the “other players start building cases on townies to distract from tomorrow’s Mac lynch” I was talking about earlier.
And you can’t say I’m scum defending Ted cause there’s only 2 wolves opposing your team and it can’t be Sig, Ted and me. Rollsafe.jpg
If it makes you feel better I read itTurnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:10 pm>Turnip Head makes one long postJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:48 amThey were really long so I’m going to wait until Mac flips town before nothing with that. Cause if Mac is a wolf (and Sig is as well), this is the theory that Ted is exactly the last Antimonitor wolf. And I townread Ted off meta and general mindset.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
So this looks less like that and more like the “other players start building cases on townies to distract from tomorrow’s Mac lynch” I was talking about earlier.
And you can’t say I’m scum defending Ted cause there’s only 2 wolves opposing your team and it can’t be Sig, Ted and me. Rollsafe.jpg
>Not worth the effort to read it
no badColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:53 pm I feel good about most of the people on the sig wagon as well. Think I can [VOTE: sig] aubergine for now.
The point of the exercise was to test out if people were scum without Mac —> what reasons there were for lynching them if Mac flipped town. It proved rather futile.Dom wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:25 amI don't disagree with the game theory you're describing.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:23 amIt is. It’s just the kind of math townies don’t like to listen to, along with logic like “even if I am scum....”
Townies generally want to vote for the player they suspect the most, which is Sig, not the player who is most likely to flip mafia, which is Mac.
It doesn’t really matter because we’re probably lynching them both and they’re probably both flipping mafia but
Tony’s logic is sound.
Lynch Sig and he flips wolf -> lynch Mac
Lynch Sig and he flips town -> lynch Mac
Lynch Mac and he flips bulletproof wolf -> lynch Sig
Lynch Mac and he flips town -> a decent chunk of the Sig case falls away -> maybe don’t lynch Sig.
Logically, mathematically, that makes Mac the best lynch.
Realistically, people suspect Sig the most and Sig will be lynched today. That’s of course fine because there’s good reason for that suspicion. We just need to follow up on Mac tomorrow, especially because he’ll have three teammates running interference and I’m betting we’ll see some new cases starting up on townies tomorrow.
Spending the town's energy on suspects contingent on those flips is something else.
If Sig is scum, it is likely that Mac is scum. Not guaranteed — likely.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:34 amRight, Tony, it's more the opposite, idk how you interpreted my post to the conclusion that we should lynch mac first -- I'm saying sig is more surely scum than mac.NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:05 am Radish/sabie team targeting Mac and Mac not dying doesn’t automatically make Mac scum (actually it makes him 50/50, roughly)
So it’s not quite as clear cut as “kill Mac and we know sig’s alignment.”
This role is a good reason to lynch Sig — finding the Harbinger is a good way to make town sad.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:58 pm There's also this to keep in mind:The Anti-Monitor - You will survive the first two nightkill attempts, and you will start each Day with -2 votes. If you perform your team’s kill, it cannot be protected against by regular means. Each night, you will search for Harbinger, and if you find her, she will kill the Monitor.
This thought is stupid and I’m ashamed to have had it.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:04 pmThis role is a good reason to lynch Sig — finding the Harbinger is a good way to make town sad.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:58 pm There's also this to keep in mind:The Anti-Monitor - You will survive the first two nightkill attempts, and you will start each Day with -2 votes. If you perform your team’s kill, it cannot be protected against by regular means. Each night, you will search for Harbinger, and if you find her, she will kill the Monitor.
No. Bad. Wrong.S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:03 pm All you guys complaining about two baddie teams, I would think you would rather eliminate the one team so you can play they way you are used to playing. If the theory is that Mac is on the Masters team becasue of the janitored kill, wouldn't you want to get rid of the Anti Monitor first? Since they are already two down?
