The Syndicate

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:19 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:49 am Kinda just think scum is chilling and this might all be town violence thru where I'm at in catch up but I don't fucking knowwwww

I considered this but then lol wolves
That would be like... Pyxxy, falcon, who else?

The reason I had that unspoken scumread on svs earlier was because I thought her read on me was pockety, PLUS I suspected she was staying out of the thread discussion except to politely agree with stuff, but I don't think the latter part is true anymore especially once the discussion started to revolve around her. And as I said before, I'm gonna drop talking about her for the rest of the day since it's clearly stressing her out. I don't think I need to avoid making a read on her but I don't want to frustrate her completely out of the game because then it's impossible to find her if she is, in fact, town, and clearly I'm having a difficult enough time seeing worlds where she's town when she's in the thread. So idk, maybe she'll do something towny if I stop sitting on that read.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:24 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:19 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:49 am Kinda just think scum is chilling and this might all be town violence thru where I'm at in catch up but I don't fucking knowwwww

I considered this but then lol wolves
That would be like... Pyxxy, falcon, who else?

The reason I had that unspoken scumread on svs earlier was because I thought her read on me was pockety, PLUS I suspected she was staying out of the thread discussion except to politely agree with stuff, but I don't think the latter part is true anymore especially once the discussion started to revolve around her. And as I said before, I'm gonna drop talking about her for the rest of the day since it's clearly stressing her out. I don't think I need to avoid making a read on her but I don't want to frustrate her completely out of the game because then it's impossible to find her if she is, in fact, town, and clearly I'm having a difficult enough time seeing worlds where she's town when she's in the thread. So idk, maybe she'll do something towny if I stop sitting on that read.

I went off on a tangent there but my point was that I would've categorized svs as "sitting back" up until recently so I don't really know if she fits that description anymore, but idk who else does besides pyxxy and falcon. Maybe Porscha, but not because she's inactive, just that I don't think she's been directly involved in any of the major discussions so far but I also feel like that might be a disingenuous characterization on my part, like maybe she was part of a big discussion but I can't remember any examples except maybe when Lily was pushing on her.

Anyway I'm back to feeling like my reads are dumb and meaningless
The "play the game aggressively and mine reactions" thing isn't really working out because I just feel like I've been an asshole to at least three players so far and I'm not supposed to suck the fun out of the game for other people
Ironically I'm also sucking the fun out of the game for myself because I don't want to step on people's toes, and I'm aware that not wanting to cause discord is an extremely wolfy thing because I do it as a wolf, but I don't want to push people for reactions and just make them frustrated and angry because that's not a nice thing to do, regardless of my alignment or theirs.

[VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:26 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:24 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:19 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:49 am Kinda just think scum is chilling and this might all be town violence thru where I'm at in catch up but I don't fucking knowwwww

I considered this but then lol wolves
That would be like... Pyxxy, falcon, who else?

The reason I had that unspoken scumread on svs earlier was because I thought her read on me was pockety, PLUS I suspected she was staying out of the thread discussion except to politely agree with stuff, but I don't think the latter part is true anymore especially once the discussion started to revolve around her. And as I said before, I'm gonna drop talking about her for the rest of the day since it's clearly stressing her out. I don't think I need to avoid making a read on her but I don't want to frustrate her completely out of the game because then it's impossible to find her if she is, in fact, town, and clearly I'm having a difficult enough time seeing worlds where she's town when she's in the thread. So idk, maybe she'll do something towny if I stop sitting on that read.

I went off on a tangent there but my point was that I would've categorized svs as "sitting back" up until recently so I don't really know if she fits that description anymore, but idk who else does besides pyxxy and falcon. Maybe Porscha, but not because she's inactive, just that I don't think she's been directly involved in any of the major discussions so far but I also feel like that might be a disingenuous characterization on my part, like maybe she was part of a big discussion but I can't remember any examples except maybe when Lily was pushing on her.

Actually maybe Wilgy fits that description
I think his votes look OK but I can't discern anything at all from his "yes" gimmick

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:50 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:24 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:06 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:59 am nah nah neon is wolfy as lol

I thought her earlier posts were wolfy and her posts today were better than yesterday's

yeah but like I'm waiting for neon to explode in a ball of townfire and need it before I'm gonna give them a full clear

I gotta be honest I haven't done that in any game recently. I don't know what you expect but it's probably not happening.

You did in the champs practice after lily flipped wolf, but everyone else told me otherwise

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:50 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:56 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:41 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:36 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:46 am

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:35 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:28 am

is this an accusation?

sean has been accusing p much everyone

so not rly

I'm trying to figure out why he's throwing out so many scumreads when I'm pretty sure he threw out both scumreads and townreads early on in the last game.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:50 am Like at first I thought it was to get reactions out of people, but if Seanzie makes it so obvious that he's doing it, it's not going to get reactions out of people
So i don't understand the purpose of it and I also don't believe he believes all of what he's said.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:36 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:07 am After the rainbows and sunshine Day Zero, I'm having issues seeing anyone as sinister tbh. Hrm.

Could be Sean is trying to not so much get reactions from people whose names he throws out, but reactions from other people reactions to the suspicion, and to him making it, if that makes sense.

I think it makes sense. Maybe.

Either that or its the classic "throw shit and see what sticks" ploy. So far I''m leaning the first.

That's a fair point

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:40 pm I feel like I'm being counterproductive by further splitting votes but

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

I don't have any super good leads, sorry, and I know Seanzie said he isn't playing at the effort level he put into champs practice, but "vibes" or "gut" or whatever says he feels a bit off, not based on activity (it's a holiday weekend, people be busy) but just that his posts feel lacking in solving energy. And I don't think I'm the only one who noticed this.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:19 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:02 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:25 am tee hee lily said I was mafia and voted me ergo died to frame me and it was nutella who did it

svs is just wolfish @Kate agrees

Seanzie is just spewed woof by Nutella tee hee

Other way around, frand.

You're spewing nutella wolf? Lol

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:20 am Whatever, im sticking with keeping my vote where it was yesterday. Seanzie, you haven't convinced me youre town.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:12 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:21 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:20 am Whatever, im sticking with keeping my vote where it was yesterday. Seanzie, you haven't convinced me youre town.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Honestly I don't feel like you're looking for town!Seanzie.

I'm not, because I think there's a lack of what I saw in the champs practice game and that's good enough for me.

these are the posts I can see why you would not really like them. but do you think she is using your self-provided reasoning for playing differently against you as an opportunistic endeavor? or that she agrees that you are playing differently and can't reconcile that with how she knows town sean can play?

please hold. I have more thoughts on other posts. your call is important to us.

I am not sure and don't care what WWA's endgoal is atp, I just want them to not push me over things that I should not be pushed for. Can you explain to them that what they are seeing is not necessarily indicative of scum!Seanzie?

I have felt like their push on me has been less than genuine, but it is difficult to judge until I see how they react when others tell them they are wrong.

Yes, and?
Did anyone come in and tell me explicitly, "don't push Seanzie I think they're town"?
No, and I kept gunning for you for quite a while. I don't need to ask people to give reads because that's like pulling teeth. If they disagree they can voice it loudly and it will catch my attention. But nobody said anything, which I found interesting because multiple people said "yeah I'd be fine with yeeting Seanzie" or something to that effect yesterday. And suddenly all of those reads went silent, which could be indicative either way, but nobody stepped up to defend you.
And no, I don't think that makes you a wolf, especially not after multiple other posts i read later that now have me convinced you're town (including your reaction to my push on you), but why are you honed in specifically on me and not the people who had opinions on you yesterday and haven't said anything about you today? Imo you should be looking there. I don't have the focus or energy to look there because I don't feel like mining through isos when I don't remember who said what.

I think you're mistaking Porscha's quesions about you to me with me being honed in on you. I do not feel "honed in on you", I clearly have been pushing much more towards Mac, Porscha, and probably like 3 other people that I've forgotten about by now since I've seriously pushed in your direction. Why do you feel like i'm honed in on you? Because I'm discussing your alignment?

No, I didn't mean in terms of reads, I meant specifically questioning why *I* was scumreading you at that point and not questioning the other people who had thrown scumreads on you at various points the previous day and had mysteriously dropped them. Because, as you said before, I don't have meta on you. So why do you think it's so bad that I was trying to read you off of whatever resource I had available, even if I only had one sample?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:52 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:04 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:04 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:57 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:43 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:37 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:37 am

Whoops All Alphabetical

in all seriousness there isn't even a couple people who you feel are likely town? I feel like enough content has been generated you should be able to?

Yeah, no. I stared at the players list and had trouble.

I am seriously worried about the gamestate. I am not completely sure about how to resolve this, but it is a thing.

any sr's? I see youre on mac rn, is it something you actually believe in? why are you voting mac?

Because Mac deserves more scrutiny than they're currently getting. I was quite demotivated after the whole Mac/Nutella exchange though, tbh.

So you have absolutely no comment about my vote moving off you and immediately onto Mac? Lol
I mean yeah I moved off Mac and onto svs but still, if you think I'm a wolf you should be worried about my vote movement.

For someone who thinks I'm "honed in on" them, you seem to be painfully aware that I'm not honed in on you and tracking your every movement.

Seriously, man, if you think I'm a wolf just vote me because I ha mve nothing to lose and every push I've made in this game has made people angry and I'm done being an asshole so I'm not going to push anyone for the rest of the game.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:37 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:52 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:36 am Dennis
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
Kate
MacDougall
Neon
nutella
Porscha
pyxxy
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime
WindwardAway

I tried to make a readslist to help me sort my thoughts, but honestly I had a hard time breaking even one person away. I'm not sure what this means.

Just push me today. I don't really care lol

Why are you doing this? I very clearly am not just "Oh, THUNDERDOME WWA!!!! NEVER LOOK BACK!!!" but you keep suggesting that I should be? what?

I'm not suggesting that you dome me, I'm suggesting that if you think I was trying to agenda push you earlier then you should be voting me instead of just going "wow how weird that wind wanted to dome me because she's only played with me once before". Like either commit to the read or don't. I'm getting told that my hedgy ass reads aren't good enough so I'm going to complain about other people's reads that I can't understand, too.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:47 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:08 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:02 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:56 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:40 am I have had a quiet Sean/Wind dichotomy rolling around since mid d1. Idr why but it feels right

I'm perfectly fine with doming Seanzie if you want us to be wagons for today
If Sean actually flips town then I'll just suck it and flip tomorrow but I genuinely do not get why I should think he's town

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:19 pm Vibing is fun and solving is fun but I'm just sitting on a wolf!Seanzie take and not really solving any further, I'm completely aware of that and frankly I'm fine with doing so

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:00 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:21 pm

Would you look at neon if seanzie flips town though bc spoiler I definitely would

I would look at Neon regardless of Seanzie's flip tbh but especially if Seanzie flips town

Actually maybe I retract the "especially if Seanzie flips town" part
Neon was in my PoE anyway

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:06 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:12 pm

I'm not, because I think there's a lack of what I saw in the champs practice game and that's good enough for me.

I meantioned in Champs practice that I was playing in a specific way, I mentioned here that I was playing Champs practice in a specific way, at yet you don't bother to verify this at all and instead scumread me for percieved differences without being willing to reconsider? What am I to make of that?

One of your early "differences" was that in Champs practice I did both scumreads and townreads early. It actually use to be a scumtell for me to state townreads, and I still often don't bother to townhunt as town, so your understanding of me is way off, and you have plenty of people in the thread that know me better than you do to help shape your understanding.

Yes I do, and other people (nutella) also said you're not towny so it verifies my opinion.
Idc, I'll happily thunderdome you today.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:11 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:39 pm Dennis
Kate
Neon
nutella
Porscha
Seanzie
WindwardAway

That's like... probably my town right now

I was hoping Wilgys gimmick would have died by now.

Crap, I don't scumread you actually
Ngl I'm gonna drop whatever I was doing and take both you and Seanzie off my immediate PoE. I have other people I want out more.
If Seanzie still wants to TD me that's fine, I'm at fault for asking for it. But I saw something from him that made me change my mind while catching up.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Mac should die first.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:12 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:11 pm

Crap, I don't scumread you actually
Ngl I'm gonna drop whatever I was doing and take both you and Seanzie off my immediate PoE. I have other people I want out more.
If Seanzie still wants to TD me that's fine, I'm at fault for asking for it. But I saw something from him that made me change my mind while catching up.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Mac should die first.

What did you see?

A very reasonably structured post with the tone and reaction i was expecting to come more likely from town!Seanzie
So congrats, that's a point in your favor

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:20 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:48 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:39 pm Dennis
Kate
Neon
nutella
Porscha
Seanzie
WindwardAway

That's like... probably my town right now

I was hoping Wilgys gimmick would have died by now.

Tell me about WWA? I do not like their push on me when what they're suspecting me over could easily be cleared up by like 75% of the people in the game, and instead of doing anything to find them, they've just resigned to not do anything the rest of the game.

This is 100% true I was completely not gonna bother trying to find any towny posts by you cause I hadn't seen any up to that point but I've seen one or two now

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:31 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:17 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:14 pm

A very reasonably structured post with the tone and reaction i was expecting to come more likely from town!Seanzie
So congrats, that's a point in your favor

... everything you just said actually usually more describes my scum play.

My normal town modus operandi is to cover myself with large amounts of fresh meat, and then stand in the middle of a field yelling, and then look around at everyone to see who is 1. wolf taking the bait, 2. town genuinely just hungry for steak, 3. wolves shying away from me in weird ways because they know I'm trying to bait then, and 4. town shying away from me because they know they can watch and find people who satisfy 1 and 3 around me.

It is not reasonably structured, but it is effective.

Yes, but the reaction you had to my tunneling you is decently convincing. I like reading people off of direct interaction if I don't have enough evidence otherwise. I'll push and I'll be argumentative if I think it's going to net me a solid read by the time I'm done.

I might be a little biased here but I generally get the idea that wwa is not only:
1) making a read that probably makes sense to someone who doesnt play with you often
2) making it obvious and well known she is sr'ing you to the point of considering thunderdoming with you at various points
3) acknowledges that the read was stubborn but shared it anyway
4) includes other reads like on neon that she establishes are separate from you
5) sees a post that reminds her of the town sean she has seen and then changes her read

so unless the post(s) she tr'd you for are ones you don't believe she should tr you for, then where is your biggest issue? I read the tone as really genuine because she chose to make the arguments against you relentlessly while also realizing it didn't really put her in a good light. and even put a pretty big spotlight on you two. what good does it bring a wolf who was in a comfortable position to want to thunderdome in that scenario? I don't think (and i absolutely could be wrong here, i;ve only played with wwa like no more than t wice) that wwa would make a big gambit like that - for reasons I can't even begin to comprehend either

This is a weirdly analytical post from Porscha.

My main complaint about WWA is that the things they've focus on re:me are things that don't make sense for people who know me, and I've pushed them to consider this/explore this and they haven't.

Their thunderdone thing was weird.

-_-

Okay. you didn't refute anything I said. I think it's townier for someone to put their personal read above a general meta read someone else might have instead of just going "oh well some other ppl vouch for your behavior so I guess i'll back down" because I think that's 100% an easier route for a wolf to take.

thunderdome weird or not, do you believe weird = wolf? apparently not, since you're throwing around votes on mac and me. you feel like you lack conviction and that is not a particularly towny trait from you.

Their read is a meta read though, which is kind of my issue - or if it is something else, I haven't seen it. Sure backing down is "easier", but wolves need miselims, and I truly think that only through concerted action by myself in the last 24 hours am I now not a good miselim candidate. When WWA was pushing me, the thread was going for it, I felt it, I saw wolves in the bushes and trees around me. Also, right as soon as I started actually fighting to make myself not a miselim candidate, WWA DID back off. Furthermore, no one was vouching for me (see re:wolves in the bushes) for whatever reason.

I don't believe weird = wolf necessarily, but I also just don't know why WWA is doing this, and I feel like this is a huge departure from last game (whereas they feel the same about me, but I've explained why there would be such a departure, and they have).

"Bad Seanzie, how dare you not death tunnel!" is old. I am allowed to be uncertain, especially when the few times I've tried to push this game, people have defended people giving zero AI content. Bad gamestate leads to inability to form concrete reads.

Yeah but you're not the only one who was paying attention to that threadstate. You think I was just pushing you for the lolz? I was also paying attention to everyone else's reactions to it and that's entirely my point about you asking ME to sheep everyone else's read on you. Nobody freaking said anything, and that's not your fault. They were being passive. But that gave me a massive amount of information that I could use to solve around your slot and so I shifted focus, but I just helped cause some people to feel bad about the game or themselves or whatever so I don't really think I should be applying any more of these dumb tactics.

Anyway

I think you're town
I think nutella is town
I think Neon is town
I think Mac is town
I'm undecided on Dennis because I've actually been playing with the idea that Kate is town
My read on svs hasn't changed so I don't need to talk about it
I'm not convinced Porscha is town yet
TSP is ok ish, above null
Falcon was at the same place as TSP but is dropping due to recency bias
Pyxxy is at the bottom of my readlist because I don't think his play is any different from the champs practice game and he was wolfing there
Wilgy is a null so idk
And I'm not sure who I forgot

So those are my reads, maybe they'll change, but I'm not gonna go in hard pushing anyone else for the rest of the day since apparently that's upsetting.

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:01 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:51 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:50 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:24 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:06 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:59 am nah nah neon is wolfy as lol

I thought her earlier posts were wolfy and her posts today were better than yesterday's

yeah but like I'm waiting for neon to explode in a ball of townfire and need it before I'm gonna give them a full clear

I gotta be honest I haven't done that in any game recently. I don't know what you expect but it's probably not happening.

You did in the champs practice after lily flipped wolf, but everyone else told me otherwise

I did? I don't feel like I did I played like shit and my heart wasn't in that game for a number of reasons.

Yeah you did, you made a super obvtown post but I think over half the game pushed you for it so apparently I was the only one who thought it was towny. I tried pointing out why it was towny but just got told 'Neon is a really good wolf, don't be fooled' so I still had to PoE you out of obligation to have a wide enough PoE for winning purposes if I hadn't, I would've had the exact solve + 1.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:03 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:53 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:50 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:56 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:41 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:36 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:46 am

I'm trying to figure out why he's throwing out so many scumreads when I'm pretty sure he threw out both scumreads and townreads early on in the last game.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:50 am Like at first I thought it was to get reactions out of people, but if Seanzie makes it so obvious that he's doing it, it's not going to get reactions out of people
So i don't understand the purpose of it and I also don't believe he believes all of what he's said.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:36 am

That's a fair point

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:40 pm I feel like I'm being counterproductive by further splitting votes but

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

I don't have any super good leads, sorry, and I know Seanzie said he isn't playing at the effort level he put into champs practice, but "vibes" or "gut" or whatever says he feels a bit off, not based on activity (it's a holiday weekend, people be busy) but just that his posts feel lacking in solving energy. And I don't think I'm the only one who noticed this.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:19 am

You're spewing nutella wolf? Lol

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:20 am Whatever, im sticking with keeping my vote where it was yesterday. Seanzie, you haven't convinced me youre town.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:12 pm

I'm not, because I think there's a lack of what I saw in the champs practice game and that's good enough for me.

these are the posts I can see why you would not really like them. but do you think she is using your self-provided reasoning for playing differently against you as an opportunistic endeavor? or that she agrees that you are playing differently and can't reconcile that with how she knows town sean can play?

please hold. I have more thoughts on other posts. your call is important to us.

I am not sure and don't care what WWA's endgoal is atp, I just want them to not push me over things that I should not be pushed for. Can you explain to them that what they are seeing is not necessarily indicative of scum!Seanzie?

I have felt like their push on me has been less than genuine, but it is difficult to judge until I see how they react when others tell them they are wrong.

Yes, and?
Did anyone come in and tell me explicitly, "don't push Seanzie I think they're town"?
No, and I kept gunning for you for quite a while. I don't need to ask people to give reads because that's like pulling teeth. If they disagree they can voice it loudly and it will catch my attention. But nobody said anything, which I found interesting because multiple people said "yeah I'd be fine with yeeting Seanzie" or something to that effect yesterday. And suddenly all of those reads went silent, which could be indicative either way, but nobody stepped up to defend you.
And no, I don't think that makes you a wolf, especially not after multiple other posts i read later that now have me convinced you're town (including your reaction to my push on you), but why are you honed in specifically on me and not the people who had opinions on you yesterday and haven't said anything about you today? Imo you should be looking there. I don't have the focus or energy to look there because I don't feel like mining through isos when I don't remember who said what.

I think you're mistaking Porscha's quesions about you to me with me being honed in on you. I do not feel "honed in on you", I clearly have been pushing much more towards Mac, Porscha, and probably like 3 other people that I've forgotten about by now since I've seriously pushed in your direction. Why do you feel like i'm honed in on you? Because I'm discussing your alignment?

No, I didn't mean in terms of reads, I meant specifically questioning why *I* was scumreading you at that point and not questioning the other people who had thrown scumreads on you at various points the previous day and had mysteriously dropped them. Because, as you said before, I don't have meta on you. So why do you think it's so bad that I was trying to read you off of whatever resource I had available, even if I only had one sample?

I don't recall anyone who scumread me D1 (I'm sure it happened, I just don't remember, so from my POV nothing majorly pinged me). I do recall that when I looked at you, it was you, Kate and Nutella all voting me, and I did look at all three of you, one at a time, deciding that you were the most likely one to be pushing me in bad faith. I am not so sure of that now, but I am not ready to just give up on the idea either.

I remember it specifically because I didn't want to vote on a vanity wagon and knew that there were several others who thought you were scummy or at least not towny, and there were several more who basically said they wouldn't be opposed to yeeting you. And the latter is what I'm concerned about but I don't remember who it was.

I did admit to pushing you in bad faith, though. As I said, I was lazy and I wanted answers so I settled for pushing you as hard as I could to see if you'd say anything to change my mind, and also to see what everyone else would have to say. You did say something to change my mind, and nobody else really did. Question is, why did that happen?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:35 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:39 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:19 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:19 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:17 pm let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

Also worth noting that Mac said nothing of SVS yesterday, but then came in today apparently convinced enough on wolf!SVS that he spent numerous posts saying it without explanation.

I did this too, even svs pointed it out, so why aren't you pointing that out?

I only noticed it with Mac because he was being stubborn about talking about his reads, so I had to dig into his ISO. I haven't done that with you.

See, normally I would ask why you haven't dug into my ISO if you suspected i was pushing you in bad faith, but I think this whole conversation is going in circles because I don't really care what your read on me is since i already think you're town. The point of my asking about why you noticed Mac specifically was just a check to make sure I'm not clearing you for light reasons, to see if I find any inconsistencies, but so far there aren't. Sorry for grilling you over all this.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:13 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:10 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:35 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:39 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:19 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:19 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:17 pm let me help u Seanzie

1. I made some snap townreads and liked them
2. I did quick associative to rule out some teams
3. I realised a few of my town had similar reads
4. When i and others pushed svs and Kate they kind of outed in real time

If u weren't there I guess maybe it wasn't so cool.

I was there, you're overstating what happened, and regardless you've been pushing scum!SVS since early today without reason, but now you only want to talk about what happened very recently.

Also worth noting that Mac said nothing of SVS yesterday, but then came in today apparently convinced enough on wolf!SVS that he spent numerous posts saying it without explanation.

I did this too, even svs pointed it out, so why aren't you pointing that out?

I only noticed it with Mac because he was being stubborn about talking about his reads, so I had to dig into his ISO. I haven't done that with you.

See, normally I would ask why you haven't dug into my ISO if you suspected i was pushing you in bad faith, but I think this whole conversation is going in circles because I don't really care what your read on me is since i already think you're town. The point of my asking about why you noticed Mac specifically was just a check to make sure I'm not clearing you for light reasons, to see if I find any inconsistencies, but so far there aren't. Sorry for grilling you over all this.

I don't mind being grilled, I just am a bit perplexed because you aren't really a main focus of mine, and haven't been for like probably 18 hours, but I see how me responding to Porscha about earlier stuff could make you think otherwise.

Yeah, I guess that's mostly it

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:14 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:12 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:05 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:01 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:51 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:50 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:24 am

yeah but like I'm waiting for neon to explode in a ball of townfire and need it before I'm gonna give them a full clear

I gotta be honest I haven't done that in any game recently. I don't know what you expect but it's probably not happening.

You did in the champs practice after lily flipped wolf, but everyone else told me otherwise

I did? I don't feel like I did I played like shit and my heart wasn't in that game for a number of reasons.

Yeah you did, you made a super obvtown post but I think over half the game pushed you for it so apparently I was the only one who thought it was towny. I tried pointing out why it was towny but just got told 'Neon is a really good wolf, don't be fooled' so I still had to PoE you out of obligation to have a wide enough PoE for winning purposes if I hadn't, I would've had the exact solve + 1.

If I made a towny post that game I don't know what it was. I played so bad.

That game has negatively impacted my mafia self image for like the last week's worth of games I've been playing.

Your lily reaction was obvtown in hindsight.

Particularly that she was so focused on trying to understand why nobody else was really considering her worldview, rather than focusing on pushing them for it.

Anyway, does anyone have spicy reads rn?
Do we even need spicy reads rn?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:32 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:49 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:54 pm @Neon who is wolf

I hate scum reading at this point in my life.

If I voted for anyone right now ignoring all other factors it would be Pyxxy. I just kinda feel like they haven't done anything and that's not something I have ever said about Pyxxy. It kinda feels like they are watching town eat each other alive while kickin it in woof chat.

1000% I do think at most there's 1 wolf in kate and svs and it's never both. It's possibly neither. You are town Sean is town Nutella is town Porscha is town Wind is town.

I do not town read Kate or SVS but a lot of that is me feeling lost in the water on them and all my town reads except one want to blast them both into the sun. I don't think if they were W/W they'd be playing this the way that they are I think it's possible one is pocketing the other.

[VOTE: neon] aubergine

I think Neon is town so probably you should be voting me

On a more serious note, what changed your mind on SVS?

I mean the only Neon read I disagree on is probably Porscha because I don't think Porscha is cleared, and especially not from the Lily kill

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:34 am Wind's falcon snippet solidifies my team read there too lol confbias is a hell of a drug

Vote me then, I'm VT

Waiting for the "haha no you're definitely a wolf PR" rebuttal like I usually get
If I'm lucky it'll actually stir up something spicy

Also, what's clearing for pyxxy?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:35 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:33 am On a more serious note, what changed your mind on SVS?

I am torn, not completely changed my mind. I think that kate actually rang genuine in her defense when I sat with it for a minute, SVS less so and she could be pocketing kate but I'm giving her space and playing with the possible worlds. And I'm liking the world with you as a wolf during this catchup.

Yeah I had the same feeling on Kate
I'm fine with dying over both of them because if neither one is a wolf them I'm out of ideas since nobody except Neon wants to go for pyxxy, just like in the champs practice game, and in that game pyxxy was a wolf and Neon was town and I was town and this is just going to be a repeat of it, oh god.

I'm not sold on SVS as town just because I think she would be genuinely frustrated as either alignment if the entire thread is jumping on her. Like I said, I don't think she actually had much room to breathe, so even if she's a wolf I don't think she was making up AtE. I just didn't understand why she thought that my suggesting a backup plan in case she's town means that I don't have a real solve.

Anyway, cool, mission accomplished. I'll come back in a couple hours and hopefully the discussion will be revolving around me so I can poke people to get solid reads on everyone who isn't already in my towncore.

Should I leave my vote on pyxxy? Or should I go the AtE route and vote myself? Or just openwolf and vote sleep? It's hard to choose.

I said I wouldn't push anyone else today but I still feel obligated to symbolically leave my vote on someone other than myself just so I can say "I told you so" in DVC

Nutella's scumread on me is spicy though, I like it

It's just too bad I already thought she was town cause I'm getting nothing out of it

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:42 am So I said this once many pages ago, but oftentimes the town is out and loud and spinning their wheels. Let's all take a collective deep breath and just take a moment to consider those that aren't a part of this scrum.

Wilgy
Dennis
Falcon
Tsp

Wilgy and falcon are shrugyeet tier for me
Dennis and TSP are just barely afloat and I probably would only move there if I had to
Why isn't pyxxy in your list? He's barely said anything at all, all day.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:45 am

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:42 am So I said this once many pages ago, but oftentimes the town is out and loud and spinning their wheels. Let's all take a collective deep breath and just take a moment to consider those that aren't a part of this scrum.

Wilgy
Dennis
Falcon
Tsp

Wilgy and falcon are shrugyeet tier for me
Dennis and TSP are just barely afloat and I probably would only move there if I had to
Why isn't pyxxy in your list? He's barely said anything at all, all day.

EBWOP
"all game"

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:46 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:34 am I mean the only Neon read I disagree on is probably Porscha because I don't think Porscha is cleared, and especially not from the Lily kill

My read on Porscha has nothing to do with NKs

Yeah, I can tell
Mine does

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:46 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:35 am Waiting for the "haha no you're definitely a wolf PR" rebuttal like I usually get
If I'm lucky it'll actually stir up something spicy

Haha no you're definitely a wolf PR

I want to react with waltdies.gif but idk how to send a gif on here

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:50 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:45 am

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:42 am So I said this once many pages ago, but oftentimes the town is out and loud and spinning their wheels. Let's all take a collective deep breath and just take a moment to consider those that aren't a part of this scrum.

Wilgy
Dennis
Falcon
Tsp

Wilgy and falcon are shrugyeet tier for me
Dennis and TSP are just barely afloat and I probably would only move there if I had to
Why isn't pyxxy in your list? He's barely said anything at all, all day.

There was a point that I wanted to believe he was civ but youre right he should be included.

Do you remember what it was that you thought was towny from him?

Asking cause I legitimately couldve missed something

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:54 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:51 am

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:50 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:45 am

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:42 am So I said this once many pages ago, but oftentimes the town is out and loud and spinning their wheels. Let's all take a collective deep breath and just take a moment to consider those that aren't a part of this scrum.

Wilgy
Dennis
Falcon
Tsp

Wilgy and falcon are shrugyeet tier for me
Dennis and TSP are just barely afloat and I probably would only move there if I had to
Why isn't pyxxy in your list? He's barely said anything at all, all day.

There was a point that I wanted to believe he was civ but youre right he should be included.

Do you remember what it was that you thought was towny from him?

Yea he was supporting me in my defense of svs and my feeling mac (and nutella?)was off course, but in retrospect that was all heat of the moment stuff. He just happened to be here.

BTW, Dennis being just barely afloat is a bad sign. Also that I've pinged him like 50x. Neon, you must agree with that, at least.

I meant barely afloat above my null line, lol
Dennis has still posted more than you, but less recently and with more fluff in proportion to content. I thought that might just be because this was meant to be a friendly, wholesome game, and I still think his weird Kate-is-a-cop assumption and outing it in the thread was a newbie town move, but I will agree it's not a full clear on him.

Hmm I had a thought
That maybe I should look at the D1 nutella wagon again but in more detail
And ISO everyone who was on it other than Mac and myself (and I only make an exception for Mac because I remember thinking his early posts were NAI or slightly wolfy but then he did several towny things, so I'm aware there was a shift in gears)

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:50 am If I'm sparse for the rest of the day it's because making the most of the first 70+ degree day in Chicago of the year is far more essential to my mental health than arguing with people on the internet. Love and boba to all

I don't blame you, we had spring weather over here this weekend and I went out to enjoy it instead of sitting at home online lol
Enjoy the weather!

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:57 pm was my Nutella vote really that bad >.<

It felt very poorly timed and I am very sure she's town at this point
Plus a few other people whom I think are town are also saying nutella is towny, as an added bonus

I wanted to go out to briefly enjoy the sun for the hour it was out, but got stuck finishing work and now the sun is gone

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:06 pm given I don't feel that in touch I'm just going to sheep my personal hydra of TSPorschWWA

Ohh so that's what this meant when you said it before
Lol

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:01 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:41 am Should I leave my vote on pyxxy? Or should I go the AtE route and vote myself? Or just openwolf and vote sleep? It's hard to choose.

^is my response after catching up again

I would poke you about one thing. I think my tone is very similar to last game when I was wolfing. But my content is shite this time around

I mean, I didn't even do anything D1 and Rondo still got killed XDDDDDDDD

Truly undermines any belief that I actually influenced the thread last game

OK now I'm back to this post

Yeah, I did notice you put out less content so far in this game. Lol

But I don't really think that being less productive in the thread makes you townier I mean, in fairness it doesn't look identical to the last game, but you faced early pressure there and had to work a bit to get people off you on various occasions until I was the only one voting you for a couple days. And you kept up that level of content just enough that you were basically not suspected by more than one or two people at a time, and never really pushed as a viable wagon after the first few days.

In contrast, in this game you never started with any pressure on you. Yoy even had some people vouching that you're town here for reasons that aren't really any stronger than my reasons for suspecting you. Only Neon has been vocal about thinking you're scummy, and I just straight defaulted you to my PoE because I didn't see anything that gave me the impression you were townier or solvier than in your wolf game.

Sorry I think I was trying to look through your iso an hour ago and fell asleep lol
I'll get back to it later

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:17 pm if you want homework read wind's mentions of falcon from today/last night

Sorry to burst your bubble but it's pretty useless to read that after I flip town
unlike the champs practice game, I don't have any sort of TMI because I'm not a PR and have no leverage. People would absolutely have voted me out or at least sussed me the entire game if I hadn't claimed on D1 but that's how it usually is for me. I'm not a very strong town player, and I'm an even weaker wolf because I usually get voted out D1 or D2.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:47 pm actually you know what would be extra funny

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

who wants to bet that the Kate wagon disappears just like the Nutella one did

also @/anyone, venmo me $10 and I'll vote for your wagon and it'll disappear

if it worked for Nutella it can work for you!

(it's not personal Kate, strictly business)

cc @Neon you might want this service soon

I'm not in the mood for a Kate wagon, I'd rather flip me at this point

I'm not gonna back read because I don't care, I have irl stuff to do but ill hang around for as long as I can and hopefully make it to eod

What's the current case on Kate? I thought the thread decided she was less wolfy than svs earlier but there's no svs wagon now

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:41 pm [VOTE: tsp] aubergine



For old time sake

Where the heck did you come from

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:40 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:37 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:13 am

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:06 pm @S~V~S @pyxxy @Dennis the town needs to consolidate today.

Dennis wtf are you?

At the time you made this post, I was in bed. I get up at 5 AM.

At this point this thread is toxic for me, and my opinions are all OMGUSed up. I can't differentiate my own opinions from my feelings on how suspicion was brought to bear on me last night, so I'm doing town a favor by not being here, tbh. I might make another vote that sucks, and we can't have that.

I couldn't care less about the votes on me, but I really dislike the votes on you. @pyxxy , @DrWilgy , you should really reconsider.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:41 am Pyxxy and svs votes on nutella both suck
Like, first off, nutella is town
Second, the timing of both votes was terrible
But idk if they're partnered because pushing on nutella when the thread has moved away from flipping nutella today seems kinda counterproductive so I'm thinking only one of them is a wolf for it
Would still yeet svs first and then pyxxy if svs flips town
Idk why I'm saying anything at all since yesterday I didn't want to share reads but today I'm just throwing things everywhere

So yesterday, you were sure I was pocketing you. NOW you're talking about what happens if I flip civ.

So which is it? You still think I was pocketing you, or you think I was trying to be friendly with someone who seemed astute, friendly and involved to me?

Have a great day everyone!

Sorry you don't like the pressure on you, this game isn't supposed to be toxic

I don't see what's wrong with saying I'm 95% sure you're scum??? If I were 100% sure I would have to be a wolf who either has TMI and is bussing you, or is agenda pushing. I don't think being extremely confident is required of town but maybe we disagree on play styles.

This really isn't answering the question I asked. Do you still think I was pocketing you? I read over your interactions with me, and I didn't say anything to or about you that I (or anyone else) wouldn't say about someone they were townreading while trying to form a personal towncore. Out of everything that was said last night, that was the thing that bowled me over the most. That saying that I thought you were town was pocketing you. Becasue that was your original reason for suspecting me, right?

And it wasn't so much the pressure, it was the coming from everywhere all at once (heh) part that kinda derailed me somewhat. I got over it

Idk it depends on if i feel like scumreading you or not
I did think you were very pockety earlier and you've been less pockety toward me once you started actually direction questions at me about it
Not sure if that's the answer you expected to hear, or if you were looking for some other type of response, but that's about it

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:46 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:41 pm [VOTE: tsp] aubergine



For old time sake

No

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Oh finally, a no
Guess wilgy's getting down to business, huh

I lied lol, I'm not backreading everything but I've skimmed this page at least