The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:55 pm Could we lynch Sabie?

Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to ask [mention]MacDougall[/mention] what he saw as Sabie's scum tell.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:59 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:57 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:55 pm Could we lynch Sabie?

Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to ask @MacDougall what he saw as Sabie's scum tell.

She worked too hard to quantify tossing a vote on me. She wrote a prep post for it, then in the vote post she wrote a wall of drivel to justify voting there. It's what nervous scum do especially when voting to block progression of a teammate wagon.

I'm looking for that now.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:01 pm

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:12 pm I've also not been a fan of TH this game I just read the ISO. My first issue with them at the beginning of the game was making reads with no real explanation. Then their treatment of colin was weird to me like they were so sure its gotta be colin and anyone who thought maybe give colin a chance must be bad too. Now all of a sudden since no one was following that he's onto something else. Shrug idk I don't feel great about him so far.

I think right now though I feel worse about mac. I'm not seeing him as civ and in looking back at other games I could see his responses as a scum mac. He is trying to get people off himself without trying to make cases elsewhere. His blindly following jack on nutella was meh. I know he has a way of trying to sneakily get suspicion in different directions without directly saying it.
[VOTE: mac] aubergine

This is a classic scum vote. Talk about someone else first. But ultimately have little reason to have even brought it up because the goal is to get your vote on the mislynch.

There are two things in @[mention]sabie12[/mention]'s post that I question. One is what scum games did you look at sabie? Also, why are you saying he "blindly" followed Jack? He had a conversation with nutella where she told him Jack reads her well and I don't remember her denying that she did that (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't see that as blindly following.

I have to leave for a few minutes but I'll be back as soon as I can.

I'm back.

[mention]sabie12[/mention] did you see the question I asked earlier about what scum games of mac's you are comparing him to here? I didn't see an answer but maybe I missed it.

We have just under 2 hours.

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] I saw your response but you never answered what you thought about my response to your suspicion. That's important to me. You don't have to respond until after EOD, I just didn't want to lose track of it.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:46 pm Now I like sabie.
Is Mac or Jack a good lynch?

I'm going back and forth between them and at the same time thinking neither of them.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:50 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:46 pm Now I like sabie.
Is Mac or Jack a good lynch?

I could lynch Mac. I think lynching Jack is a bad move.

Sloonei are you seeing bad Mac or just not seeing good Mac? It's probably in your ISO but I've been in too many ISO's today and it's drowning me in a river of words.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:01 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:41 pm I'm back.

sabie12 did you see the question I asked earlier about what scum games of mac's you are comparing him to here? I didn't see an answer but maybe I missed it.

I was thinking of world asunder and the fallout game. In the fallout game he was on my team so I felt like he's been acting similar here in this game. As opposed to when he's been town like in all my circuits.

Ok, I didn't play or spectate Fallout and all I remember about Asunder is how he managed to skate by .

Yeah I hate his vote for Nanook too. Looking back at him...

I looked back at sprityo and see that as I posted earlier, the whole first part of his ISO is fluff but as Jay said above he gets better on page 2. I still hate that Nanook vote though.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:13 pm Those who suspect G-Man: please tell me what you think of this.

I'm still on G-Man so I'll point out something I intensely disliked:

"I made an assumption and I think that's going to come back to bite me. I'm still open to lynching Dyslexicon from an informational and interpretational standpoint. It's only Day 2, so we can afford to be wrong here, as long as we learn something from it."

I just don't understand lynching someone for that reason, especially someone the thread has mostly good feelings about. And he is still voting for him.

I don't want to spend to much time on his post though because I want to move off of him if possible.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:25 pm The meat of G-Man's large post:

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:21 pm #4

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:49 pm Oompa loompa doompadee don,
Some things I can’t put my finger on.
Oompa loompa doompadee dee,
Here are some folks who seem off to me.

Jay posts a lot, yes this style’s a given,
But something about him feels agenda-driven.
Sloonei’s sus of me felt hollow at best;
Auto-distrust for Dom and S~V~S.

I need to read the poll leaders.

Oompa loompa doompadee doo,
I’m keeping up better on Day 2.
Trying to gauge whose posts feel false
Before momentum waivers and stalls.

"I can't put my finger on too much just yet. (I've been skimming through the posts in order to tread water) Here are some folks who seem off for some reason. (You'll notice that the names listed are people that I have a fairly developed history of playing with. That's a bias that I fall into every game. I struggle to read new and new-to-me players, as well as folks that I do not have extensive experience playing with. There's a LOT of that in this game.)

"Jay always posts a lot, which is normal for him, but early on his posts didn't feel like standard-issue-Jay. There was an edge to them that I don't recall. (Bear in mind that this might be only the third game I've played in just over a year.) He didn't seem to be pushing for content for the sake of pushing for content to be evaluated. He seemed to be pushing for content with a direction in mind already. Sorry, that's lame and vibey, but there it is. Sloonei seems the most guilty of name-dropping me as a suspicious character in the same way that I have busted S~V~S and Golden the Coward before, much to their surprise. (Why exactly am I so suspicious? This notion that I produce good content isn't false, but people are either forgetting or choosing not to remember that civ G-Man takes an average of three days to get up to speed. The fact that I play so seldom anymore may contribute to this forgetfulness, but I am always watchful for a BS set-up. Spotting it and calling it out has yet to blow up in my face. So far this game, Sloonei is the most guilty of this line of accusation against me.) I always have an automatic distrust of Dom and S~V~S. It comes from seeing both of those crafty FEB's in action over the last 10+ years. (I have been baddie teammates with S~V~S a few times, so I know what she is capable of, just as she knows what I am capable of. Though, she should remember that I am guilty of being a try-hard more often when I am a baddie. Some habits die hard. Dom either fleeced me or nearly fleeced me a game or two ago, so that wound is still fresh in my mind.)

"I need to go back and read through the poll leaders. (This was Mac and Radish at the time. I never circled back to that. Shocker, I know!)

"I've been keeping up better on Day 2. My plan is to try to get a feel for whose posts coming off of the Day 1 and Night 1 information seem filmsiest before I sputter out. (Spoiler alert: I sputtered out at some point last night.)"



#5

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:52 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:13 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:49 pm Oompa loompa doompadee don,
Some things I can’t put my finger on.
Oompa loompa doompadee dee,
Here are some folks who seem off to me.

Jay posts a lot, yes this style’s a given,
But something about him feels agenda-driven.
Sloonei’s sus of me felt hollow at best;
Auto-distrust for Dom and S~V~S.

I need to read the poll leaders.

Oompa loompa doompadee doo,
I’m keeping up better on Day 2.
Trying to gauge whose posts feel false
Before momentum waivers and stalls.

Even with the wonka limitations, these reads are uninspiring. Sing me a tune that gets into more specifics, G.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:49 pm that's a fair point. I've been waiting for G-man to provide something for me to develop a read on one way or the other. He has not delivered.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:27 pm Colin is probably the player I’ve driven the most mislynches against historically. I’m wary of that. None of his posts have stood out to me, but I’ve been operating at less than full capacity the last 72 hours.

G-man has been underwhelming. That becomes more suspicious the later we get into the game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:44 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:27 pm @Sloonei who bad?

Radishes remains suspect #1. I’m starting to agree with the G-man suspicion as well. Other than that I feel like I still have a lot of things left to figure out.

Oompa loompa doompadee dell,
Your progression on me is lazy as hell.
One might think you’re trying to raise
Me up as a soft-target case.

Vague comments that all seem to promote
The notion that everything that I wrote
Fails to live up to Day 1’s in my past
Makes me wonder if you need gassed.

I always struggle early on.

Oompa loompa doompadee det,
Sloonei’s dangling an easy target-
Waiting to see who else may bite.
On this issue G-Man’s willing to fight.

(This is a lot of the same of what I posted for #4. Sloonei looks like the worst offender on this front, but I have seen S~V~S and Juliets do a little G-Man-dangling as well. If anyone, I would expect S~V~S to tread lightly with this, as I caught her doing it once before. Beyond that, I don't civ read her. In the past, she has been pushier for content when civvie, and an over-explainer when she's bad. She's struck a balance of each so far that leaves me wondering. I don't recall ever playing against baddie juliets, but name-dropping me over nothing is irritating. I can respect being suspected for worthwhile concerns, but this does not fit the bill.)

I omit the other points, because they were raw translations of oompa-loomping without adding much. I color code for the sake of reference; the colors have nothing to do with alignment judgments.

Yellow - G-Man's gripe with me is vague, and he admits as much ("lame and vibey"). I've already asked him to talk more about this; I can't do much with vagueness.

Orange - G-Man specifically names Sloonei as the guiltiest party of opportunism among those voicing suspicion of him. I don't know why Sloonei is the one named here. It isn't stated. This is vague too.

Soft orange - S~V~S and juliets get similar accusations, but with caveats (underlined). I don't care about that. What's still unclear is what precisely is the problem -- is it solely that these people have uttered G-Man's name in less-than-positive tones? Is there something in the content of their words that is troublesome? This post goes a long way to tell me little.

Green - This seems pointless.

I asked him about what he said about me but he hasn't answered.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] I like your points about G-Man's post.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:43 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:39 pm @JaggedJimmyJay I like your points about G-Man's post.

which point stands out the most to you?

The point about why you are the worst offender and the point about why exactly S~V~S and I are a problem. So for example, I'm not troubled that he finds me a problem but he didn't explain it and didn't answer me when I asked about it.

Are you clear on why you are the worst offender?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:47 pm Opinions please:

Tranq wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:32 am I see sabie12 and Michelle share my suspicion of TH (maybe others too, i did not read everything, and probably won't get around to it), so i'm glad to see i'm not the only one. I'm putting a vote there.

Someone made a point about him looking for "friends" that is not characteristic of him and I agree with that. I agree with what S~V~S just said though, I think he's just not into this and would be more into it if he were bad.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:50 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:43 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:39 pm @JaggedJimmyJay I like your points about G-Man's post.

which point stands out the most to you?

The point about why you are the worst offender and the point about why exactly S~V~S and I are a problem. So for example, I'm not troubled that he finds me a problem but he didn't explain it and didn't answer me when I asked about it.

Are you clear on why you are the worst offender?

I am not. I'm not even clear why I'm on the list at all (I get what he has said, I just don't understand why he regards it as a bad thing). I believe I've asked him about this already.
I see that your vote is currently on G-man. How confident is that read? What other names are you considering?

I don't ever have high confidence in a read in early game, and it's been a while since I played with G-Man but out of the people I have looked at I have more confidence in him being bad than others. I thought I was going to move my vote but I can't find someone I feel as strongly about. sabie12 may be bad, I thought Mac had a good point, but I feel like I would just be voting for her because I should move. Should is the operative word - should in who's eyes?

God, am I going to have to choose between MR who I've had a town read on for 2 days or Mac who I don't see as scum at this time? This is impossible.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:31 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:30 pm g-man and radishes are partners.

This ^^^

Ohh wow why?

Ok damnnit Sloonei if you are wrong...I'll change to MR. May the devil take my soul.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:35 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:31 pm God, am I going to have to choose between MR who I've had a town read on for 2 days or Mac who I don't see as scum at this time? This is impossible.

G-man just became equally as viable as Radishes imo. How do you feel about him?

linki: hello, i appreciate the confidence. but why are am i responsible for your vote, juliets?

Sloonei, no I'm sorry, you are not. I made the decision.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:36 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:27 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:26 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:18 pm Okay so the fact that I have had 6 unmoved votes on me for the past 2 hours approaching deadline is a pretty solid indication that both scum teams are on my wagon imo.

The fact that Jack/TH/G-Man and Radishes wagons have all had no momentum strongly indicates at least 1, probably more of them are solid wagons.

I am not letting you lynch me today. So figure out where to put your vote that isn't me. This ain't happening.

Okay, I don’t trust Sloonei, so I can’t vote for Radish. I’m not crazy enough to vote for myself (yet). That leaves TH. I don’t have a handle on the case for lynching him, so care to share? There’s too much post-vomit to sift through and I’ve got ironing to do.

Why don't you trust me, and why does distrusting me exclude you from voting alongside me in a game with two mafia teams?

@juliets I can't multiquote on phone; this is why imo, Sloonei makes a good point.

Yes he does. I changed.

omg, I feel so much better.

I have to go put dinner in the oven though, I'll be back later.

I'm here but I'm going to do something brainless for awhile and will sift through all of this in the morning when I'm functioning again.

I have read through everything since I got off last night but I haven't assimilated all the theories yet. Plus I was not able to go through Sloonei's long post - I want to do that when I have more time to think about it which is not now. I start this day (Monday) out feeling bad about sabie so I will take a look at her more closely (again) this afternoon. I'm most confused on Mac, Jack and TH. I should just forget about trying to read Jack as he is right, I suck at it. I can't count on Mac being town yet even though I want to and with TH I know I'm seeing him as town because of meta and feel like I need to take a closer look. I'm not going to name my top towns right now because it's night and I'm old school. I'll work toward publishing a rainbow or GTH after day starts.

One other thing I want to say, I am rethinking my G-Man position based on his post last night. The theory that G-Man and Radishes were teammates really clicked with me last night and made me see voting for G-Man and voting for Radishes was basically the same thing. But his post leaves me believing he is town after all. I empathize with his feeling of the game being overwhelming and wanting to die soon if he's going to die - I have more time than he does and can barely keep up.

I have to be at work early this morning and probably have to stay late though I will get away as soon as I can because I have a lot to process here. And finally for now, welcome back [mention]nutella[/mention] I hope you are town because your thoughts help me a lot.

I'm finally home and caught up except I haven't read all of Jay - will finish that momentarily. I want to read through EOD again, painful as that may be, but I will keep this window open and check back frequently for current discussion.

Just some thoughts/questions while reading through -

S~V~S posted that she would be mad if G-Man's AtE turned out to be baddie motivated but she doesn't think it is because he couldn't live with the guilt. That describes what I felt when I read it too but I'm having misgivings after seeing that others aren't giving him an inch of ground on that because he's so compatible with Radish. Reading that post again about not voting for Radishes because of Sloonei was definitely ugh. I'll revisit this issue at some point today.

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] you said you would lynch Jack based on the Radish flip - anything specific you can talk about?

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] you asked why nutella seems off tonally but so far I'm not seeing that. Can you be more specific?

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] you made a comment that the chances of Mac being scum are cut in half after the Radish flip. Maybe I'm taking that too literally but could you talk more about why?

I do agree with the suspicion thats out there about sabie but I need to look at the details to explain it (this thought was triggered by Dizzy's post about her).

I laughed when I got to Dizzy's post about being more confident now - I feel exactly the opposite. I will keep trying though.

Jay's finding about sig being decently compatible with Radishes was a surprise so I want to look into that more. I have avoided looking at sig's ISO because I perceive there's so much.

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:02 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:33 pm

Linki: I think we should pursue obvious links to Radish, but be spending most of the next phase trying to hunt the other team and preferably have one of them as a counterwagon. Usually if you eliminate one team the other doesn't inherit the kill so as long as we don't ignore them I'd say full steam on Radish peeps.

Had something changed? In the past the kill WAS inherited. Is that no longer the norm?

Linki @ jay, that could be because Nanook 1 thought the baddie slip business was lame, and that colored his thoughts.

Last game I played with multiple teams it wasn't but I can't recall where/when that was.

Just fyi, every game I've played that I can remember with two teams one team inherited the other's kill when the team was eliminated. I believe that's true for the LC/BR games I have played.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:48 pm @juliets jack did in fact mean that literally, that mac's chances of being scum are only half of what they were, because he's clearly not on the radish team.

Ok so it really is the math - thanks, I can't think that quick through math (sooo embarrassing).

Can someone tell me what "TK" stands for and "KO" as used in this game?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:02 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:01 pm Can someone tell me what "TK" stands for and "KO" as used in this game?

Town kill, I guess. Don't know the other one. =p

Thanks Dizzy -

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:06 pm @juliets idk where you got KO, lol. Maybe you meant KP? I think that means kill power or something similar, basically the number of kills available

I thought it was Nanook but maybe it was KP! Thanks!

I'm thrilled about sabie but sooo sad to lose Dizzy. Good game Dizzy, I so enjoy playing with you.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:50 pm I don't understand any of this. "Janitor", how this proves Mac is bad, any of it.

I feel ignorant. Can someone explain this to me like I'm an ignoramus cause obviously I am.

sig theorized before that Mac was Saitama and targeted him so he could only post one post during the day. Mac almost got lynched yesterday so now sig is saying that Mac as Saitama used his other power on Dizzy last night, janitoring the kill (making it so that Dizzy's role wasn't revealed) because he or the team feels like he (Mac) will be lynched today so he needed to use the power last night. Somebody correct this if I've got it wrong.

Here is the Saitama role:

Saitama - Each night, you will choose one player to be limited to a single post during the next day. You have a one-time nightkill survival, and once in the game you can janitor a kill you perform, giving you alone the result.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:13 pm SVS Jay and Sloonei probably the Radish voters I’m most interested in as bussers

I’d probably kill between them and tranq today

Maybe nutella/drago if I’m ignoring my desire to play with Nutella

Tbh I’d probably kill the other three over sloonei too

No interest in Mac today in lieu of sig's theory?

I have to be away from the thread for awhile.

I'm running a little late this morning with my post. I decided to try posting thoughts as I go. From here I need to read through Mac and sig while I'm fresh.

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:44 pm Okay I gotta go for real. I have a ride along for a job all day tomorrow, a quiz, case study, and test that I haven't studied enough for. Then like 2 more tests and a paper. So i'll only be popping in.

linki: Rude my theory makes perfect sense paired with an ISO read of Mac.

And for that reason I will be ISOing Mac this morning.

The theory fits together nicely but I want to see bad Mac for myself.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:24 pm [VOTE: Michelle] aubergine I'm not seeing town fire in her

I haven't seen it either which worries me. When we were bad together she posted much less than her normal town meta.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:37 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:36 pm So much for the thunderdome then

I don't know what that means either.

Thank goodness, I was feeling dumb for not knowing what thunderdome means.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:36 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:15 pm I think we should hunt as if we don't have a great lead and then assess as we go?

This is not someone trying to actually solve the game.
This is someone looking to antagonize anyone who disagrees into exhaustion.

I haven't done the ISO yet but my perception matches that Mac hasn't tried to solve the game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:12 am
But by far the most intriguing thing on these joint lists is the placement of sig on both occasions. On the surface sig feels like a comfortable town read, but Jay and I both approached Radishes' interactions from different ends of the spectrum, and we both came out of our respective exercises with negative opinions of sig.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine for now while I do some more digging.

This was surprising to me because there has been so much talk about sig being good. If sig is bad then maybe G-Man is right and sig's theory is "too tidy". Another ISO to do, after Mac.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:26 am 3 for 3 deal? Hmmmm

Ted whatcha talking about here?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:03 am Like honestly, Epi, what are you doing.

Your best effort and genuine feeling won’t get me lynched. You know just repeating shit like “Jack is bad” or “Jack should be lynched” isn’t going to do the trick.

What? Are you treading water or something?

I'm not town reading Jack (I'm still sorting him) but the middle paragraph is a good point. Epi, please give some thoughts on why you see him as bad (I haven't done your ISO so if you have and I missed it just point me there).

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:17 am Like Sig gets lynched every damn game he’s in. He got a universal townread for two days.

Sig didn’t spontaneously generate Juliets level fake purity. He’s just town.

What? Fake purity?

I'm skipping Sloonei's sig ISO until I can do my own, then I'll go back to his.

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:10 am SVS--
I think he could be, yes. And that makes me very nervous.
G-Man is not one to be underestimated.

I agree. I don't want to believe it but I am also thinking he could be trying to manipulate with that post. Edit: aaaaaand then he makes another post that sounds genuine. The skeptic in me is just too strong though. I'll let this simmer.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:24 am That sounds stupid so let’s phrase this differently:
If Mac is scum, is there anyone who is surely also scum?
Lynch them instead.
Mac has a very limited range of possibilities and if we lynch him on autopilot and we’re wrong we risk having no leads on what will soon be a fully powered scum team.

So you are saying lynch someone for being bad with Mac even though we don't know whether Mac is bad? That feels wrong but I'll ponder it while I ISO some people.

linki: Tony, did you already talk about why S~V~S is number 1 on your list? And I guess you must have posted a list that I don't remember so I'll look back for it.

Oh, and I see [mention]Tranq[/mention] posted some thoughts about people but no reasons. Tranq, can you give us your reasoning, even if it's just a short blurb?

Tony, I couldn't find your list of 5 so it would be great if you would list them with a blurb. Maybe that's what you're getting ready to do.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:59 am

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:50 am Tony, I couldn't find your list of 5 so it would be great if you would list them with a blurb. Maybe that's what you're getting ready to do.

Gimme a few minutes

No prob, I'll check back while I'm reading through Mac.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] thoughts -

After finishing this ISO I have to admit I didn't find much, no smoking gun for me that he is bad, so if you want skip this and go to the last paragraph. Sorry part of this is squished together I couldn't get my spacing right.

I'm starting in Day 2 because I read him as town for his N1 posts.

- I said earlier I had the perception that Mac hadn't done much hunting but he did point out specifics about sabie12 being bad. I realize she's on "the other team" but I want to acknowledge that he did that at least.

- There are a sequence of posts during EOD where Mac sounds desperate. He says people should move to another wagon and includes TH in the list and then turns around and tells G-Man that he doesn't suspect TH at all. This post is indicative of the desperate tone I see:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:40 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:40 pm I want to vote mac but dont know why

OMG scum everywhere

- I don't understand where this Dizzy read comes from:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:54 pm G-Man is outed imo. Dyslexicon looks like a teammate too.

- I don't understand this post - he pointed out specifics that made sabie bad. She's on Radish's team though so I guess this doesn't really matter.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:01 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:00 pm Nanook, Jack and Dom were all on Nutella and me.

Mac cares nothing about facts.
Nanook literally had a civ role when thye voted nutella.

Mac and Sabie should be our priorities tomorrow.

Why Sabie?

- This was Mac's red list after the lynch. I can see argument for most of these though I'm not reading Dom as scum at the moment and sprityo I'm up in the air about.

Michelle (a)
Tranq (a)
Jackofhearts2005 (b)
sabie12 (a/b)
Dom (b)
G-Man (b)
sprityo (b)

- And herein lies the problem ( he did point out right afterwards that now that he has feelers in the game he can start hunting):

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:13 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:12 pm Mac hasn't tried to find a baddie for a second. He only cared about lynching anyone not named Mac.

I mean, I did try for some seconds but you are mostly right.

- This is more of a Jack thing but I am paying attention Mac:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:41 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:36 pm I'm not dying as long as people vote for me during the day and I'm not getting lynched as long as I'm me.

Yeah you kept saying this in Inception and you were right and won us the game.

Cautionary tale for those paying attention.

- Here's some hunting and I think his points were pretty good:
- More hunting:
- Mac why do you see this post as bad?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:56 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:34 am I have no clue if Jack is town or not. My gut reaction would be town, but I think the only evidence to that end is the WIFOM “oh Jack wouldn’t go after Nutella if he were scum” to which I’ll point out that 1) he might and 2) he backed off.

This is a bad post regardless of Jack's alignment.

-Somebody else, maybe Epi, brought this up too, I am not sure what you are saying here Mac.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:31 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:27 pm IF Mac is mafia then both teams are effectively done. We can piece together the entire other baddie team based off yesterday.

We should be able to find the remaining two Anti-Moniter people based off the two flips as well.

Yes because if I was mafia I would not have anti-spewed the fuck out of things when I looked done for all money. Simple, simple sig.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:44 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:39 pm Worst case Mac isn't mafia we have one mislynch.

BUT say we don't lynch him and let him keep rolling along, they'll keep killing civs and eventually we won't be able to win at all. This is when we still have a margin of error.

More importantly there are 2 roles Sprityo has at this point. If Mac isn't mafia (Very slim chance) Then Sprityo is one of the last members of Anti-Monitors. Potentially last since I still think it's possible Dizzy was mafia.

I mean Sprityo is definitely mafia, so you can go ahead and lynch me and flip that fool afterwards. I am comfortable with death at this point.

Mac, I don't believe you are comfortable with death at this point. (I do see your explanation later as to why but I still don't believe it. Evidence: World Asunder where you clung to life with your last gasp.)

- Mac, are you seriously saying your vote was a joke? It didn't sound like a joke.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:15 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:03 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:31 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:12 am And by extension how bad it is that Mac is for realzies voting him?

I'm sorry I didn't realise the deadline was approaching so fast that there wasn't time for memes.

Oh? Was your Sig vote a joke?

I thought it would be funny but apparently it's just another reason why I'm bad lol

- This post about sig caught my eye because in it he says Dom is town under a certain set of circumstances. I have avoided the whole Dom vs. Mac thing because there is history there and I can't trust what I read when one talks about the other which in this game has been all bad (to my memory) except for this post. To me this is a good look for Mac both because of the Dom thing and because he is dealing with his thoughts about the facts with sig, not just being snarky about him (I need to read sig which I will do next to get a better feel for whether I buy what Mac's saying).


I wish I had read through all of this and could say I unequivocally see Mac as scum but I can't say that. I'm not seeing the smoking gun. I will go through the thread though and search for comments about Mac to remind myself the reasons people are so sure he is bad. The best argument for me comes from sig, the whole Saitama theory so maybe my read of sig will help me out. [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] also reminds me about the day 1 turnaround on he and nutella. That bothered me and I posted about it back on Day-something, then I got over it but I can't remember why. I'll revisit the discussion around this.

I'll read sig next after a short break.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:57 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:08 am Tonight is Super Tuesday, and I am a ludicrous politics junkie, so I will likely be scarce tonight

@S~V~S

Come hang out on the discord. We’ve run most of the libertarians off.

Spoiler: show

Don't be mad, Juliets.

Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack you break my heart.

[mention]S~V~S[/mention] we can help you sort out who is who and the group is pretty consistent from day to day.

Mac is self voting? Idgi. Does anyone remember him doing this before in a game?

Not gonna finish my sig read at the moment because it's time to go to the gym. Be back around 2/2:30 and will finish it.

I'm back and continuing to read sig.

linki w/TSP will read later

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:46 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:38 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:33 pm There is a civ that can't be nked and two protection roles, Aja and Lassie.

Yea, but I doubt they'd have targeted Mac.

I did think about the civ role, a fair amount. However, I think it's much more likely he's mafia.

Also to Epi, I do plan to finish my case, this phase just caught me at a bad time.

Alternatively to Mac,

I'd say Sprityo is a good lynch followed by an inactive/semi active role. Think a lurker who isn't doing much.

linki: Your back and forth with Dom yesterday, various other posts, your small dick comments, and your entire tone when discussing you.

Here's the actual slip, guys!

When SVS suggests that the no kill on N1 may have been for many reasons, Sig answers with the knowledge that Mac was the actual kill target.

Read it. Sig says he doubts the protective role would target Mac (so that couldn't be the reason why the kill failed.) And then Sig says that he considered that Mac could be the civ role, but that he thinks that Mac is just much more likely mafia (again revealing that Mac was targeted for a NK.)

Digest this.
Again, Sig reveals that he KNOWS THAT MAC WAS THE TARGET FOR THE KILL.

The only explanation is that Sig KNOWS that Mac was targeted for a NK. He would only know that if he was the one targeting him for a NK. This is why Sig is tunnelling Mac, with extra knowledge.

Sig is scum with Radish and Sabie.
Sig not being mentioned (except once) in Sabie's ISO is just icing on the cake. Same with Sig being hedgy about Radish on D1.

I stopped reading sig for a few minutes and saw this post. I think it is right on target. Nice work [mention]Dyslexicon[/mention]! To me this is conclusive but I won't vote yet in case there is some fatal flaw that stupid me has overlooked.

Also, this doesn't mean that Mac is town, as Dizzy says. sig's theory could still be right though I will say in reading sig's ISO it didn't seem like he talked about Mac as much as he talked about Sprityo and someone else (slips my mind at the moment who) prior to his getting reduced to one post. The theory about Mac targeting Dizzy though because he was probably going to be lynched still holds for me plus there are other things that people have noted about Mac.

linkis

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:31 pm Dizzy didn't say mac was town at all lmao?

I looked back at my sentence structure and I can see why you are seeing that. I mean't "As Dizzy pointed out, this doesn't mean Mac is town."

I don't see anyone pointing out a flaw in Dizzy's logic so I'm voting. Normally I would wait to hear from sig but this looks black and white to me. I can't think of an explanation that would make this go away.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

sig wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:06 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:41 pm I don't see anyone pointing out a flaw in Dizzy's logic so I'm voting. Normally I would wait to hear from sig but this looks black and white to me. I can't think of an explanation that would make this go away.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Can't think of any explanation.......But doesn't bother to finish ISO.

Again mac teammates rushing onto another wagon.

Who said I didn't finish your ISO? I read the whole thing. The point Dizzy made that I say I can't think of an explanation for was the point that I quoted where you spoke about Mac being targeted for the kill as the only option for what happened and why he wouldn't have been protected or wasn't the civ. You acted as if you knew it was him that was targeted and not someone else who could have been protected or was the civ. You spoke from the POV that he was targeted. From Dizzy's analysis:

When SVS suggests that the no kill on N1 may have been for many reasons, Sig answers with the knowledge that Mac was the actual kill target.

Read it. Sig says he doubts the protective role would target Mac (so that couldn't be the reason why the kill failed.) And then Sig says that he considered that Mac could be the civ role, but that he thinks that Mac is just much more likely mafia (again revealing that Mac was targeted for a NK.)

And trying to intimidate me by calling me a Mac teammate when I vote for you looks desperate.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:06 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:55 pm On the whole, I’d rather be a useful mislynch early rather than become a useful idiot to the baddies later.

It does not look like you are getting lynched today.

Yes, [mention]G-Man[/mention] take that vote off yourself.