The Syndicate

I have to jump in the shower so I will be back in a bit.

Hey guys, maybe step back from the game for a few minutes.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:13 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:09 pm @MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Mac can you talk about speedchuck? Is it that he isn't posting frequently or something else/combination of things?

Ok thanks Mac. I haven't seen him as a force in this game like I remember but I wonder if that's because he is so busy. I do understand you're focused on his content not so much his frequency so I will take a better look at that.

lots of linki

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:26 pm Jesus, juliets, I almost edited your post instead of quoted it.

Long day. Not a bad day, just a long one.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:43 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:03 am Like honestly, Epi, what are you doing.

Your best effort and genuine feeling won’t get me lynched. You know just repeating shit like “Jack is bad” or “Jack should be lynched” isn’t going to do the trick.

What? Are you treading water or something?

I'm not town reading Jack (I'm still sorting him) but the middle paragraph is a good point. Epi, please give some thoughts on why you see him as bad (I haven't done your ISO so if you have and I missed it just point me there).

Here's what I had to say in case you missed it:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:08 pm I missed out on the fun last time around.

Spoiler: show

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:05 am Hey svs! it's been awhile since we've been in a game together.
I see the votes on jack and I'm not sure. I thought i had a good idea of Jack's gameplay but I've been wrong a couple times. I feel like he tries really hard to blend in and look civ when he's bad and has been a more aggressive and jokey player when civ. He accused nutella in another game and ended up getting mislynched early on and was right about her. Nutella can be difficult to read at times but I have been able to read her correctly before. When I have more time later I'll have to read through their ISOs

Nanook was bad last game I played in and he was good at seeming like a civilian for awhile. I actually only started suspecting him towards the end. I haven't had a chance to look over his civ gameplay style to see if it is similar.
I saw JJJ put me in the bottom part of the reads when I haven't even done anything yet or is it because I haven't done anything yet? I didn't even know the game had started and it's a lot to catch up on. I'm not super talkative in the beginning of games sometimes but I'm trying to get better at it.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:32 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:20 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:05 am Hey svs! it's been awhile since we've been in a game together.
I see the votes on jack and I'm not sure. I thought i had a good idea of Jack's gameplay but I've been wrong a couple times. I feel like he tries really hard to blend in and look civ when he's bad and has been a more aggressive and jokey player when civ. He accused nutella in another game and ended up getting mislynched early on and was right about her. Nutella can be difficult to read at times but I have been able to read her correctly before. When I have more time later I'll have to read through their ISOs

Nanook was bad last game I played in and he was good at seeming like a civilian for awhile. I actually only started suspecting him towards the end. I haven't had a chance to look over his civ gameplay style to see if it is similar.
I saw JJJ put me in the bottom part of the reads when I haven't even done anything yet or is it because I haven't done anything yet? I didn't even know the game had started and it's a lot to catch up on. I'm not super talkative in the beginning of games sometimes but I'm trying to get better at it.

Sabie Sabie. I didn’t get mislynched. I can even physically be mislynched.

I gathered a few votes and then told Nutella she better shoot me and claim the mafia was trying to frame her, which is exactly what she did.

I’ve correctly read Nutella like 8 games running on D1. She’s a baddie.

Oh right yeah sorry it was tony who also suspected nutella that game that got mislynched. Then I told everyone hey maybe they were right about nutella and she ended up being bad. Point is this seemed like a similar situation.



I'm heading home from work now and I'll catch up on what's been happening the last 8 hours. Haven't had a chance to read everything yet.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:16 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:47 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:40 am In looking through speedchucks ISO there really isn't much there. When he discussed the jack nutella dynamic he just says it was interesting which is a way to kind of seem involved and respond to what's going on without really putting in his own perspective or response to it. He hasn't really seemed like he's trying to figure things out or anything.

I guess I'm not surprised jack is kind of changing what he said before about nutella. It seems as though he is trying to see how people react to his accusations and I know he can be tricky like that. I don't see it as a bad look for jack right now. I don't know if it necessarily changes my feeling on nutella but I'm curious to see what her response is to that.

Can you elaborate on your feelings on Nutella?

I saw you basically be like "Jack is good at reading Nutella" but I didn't see much in the way of what you independently think about her, given the posts I'm missing.

Sure so I'm not always as good at reading nutella as you claim to be. I thought she seemed similar this game to how she was in the Australian game with her responses to being suspected. I recall she strongly defended herself and threw suspicions in all other directions to see if it would stick. I thought that was kind of how she was reacting here. I think I've mostly seen nutella be mafia or indie in the last few games I've played with her though so that's what I'm used to seeing.

sabie mentioned Jack and interacted with Jack a butt load of times (there are others; I'm not quoting everything), and she made sure to talk about other people in the same breath. That's the same phenomenon JJJ pointed out regarding her treatment of Radishes.

[VOTE: JackofHearts2005] aubergine

Epi I did miss this somehow, thanks.

Dinnertime.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], Michelle was scum in Girl Genius with me, Dizzy, and sig if that helps.

I too am distracted by the election results.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:15 pm I've looked over Dizzy's accusation of sig and sig's general responses. Thoughts:

~ I do think there is contextual space to say it's not a "slip" -- when sig referred to Mac in his response to S~V~S, it was an extension of the theory he had previously presented. This may be semantic depending upon what we define a slip to be -- maybe TMI is the better term.

I don't know if I can express my thought without getting convoluted but here goes. I see where you are saying sig referenced Mac being the target of the night kill prior but this example doesn't explain his comment to S~V~S. In that comment he spoke from the pov of someone who knew Mac was targeted with the kill because he did not entertain the thought that someone else besides Mac could have been targeted and saved or someone else might be the civ role. Instead, he talked about Mac being protected or Mac being the civ. I'm not saying it wasn't an extension of the theory he had but it was an extension that named Mac as the only possible target. If you want to call that TMI as opposed to a slip that's fine with me. Anyway, my point here was I don't think his prior mention helps him. If you think I have this wrong please let me know.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:00 am What if Dizzy's ghost was possessed by someone else tho

TH could you explain what you mean? I didn't see a mechanic like this in the OP.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:45 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:37 am The way I am reading it is that TSP is attempting to use some sort of probability to justify his vote as opposed to actually taking personal accountability for a read, which is a scum mentality generally.

I’ll take personal accountability into account: I think Sig is town. I’m indifferent on you. I’m voting for you.

Tony, how do you read his take on Mac being the one who was targeted that Dizzy brought up? I'm actively looking for someone to refute the logic that Dizzy put out there but until that happens I see sig as bad.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:18 am Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I'm used to him being more involved than he is in this game but I haven't seen anything that said "bad ted". Though I've never seen bad ted so take that for what it's worth. I'll read his posts if I have time today (working all day). Also, don't know why he's still voting G-Man.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:50 am

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:04 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:15 pm I've looked over Dizzy's accusation of sig and sig's general responses. Thoughts:

~ I do think there is contextual space to say it's not a "slip" -- when sig referred to Mac in his response to S~V~S, it was an extension of the theory he had previously presented. This may be semantic depending upon what we define a slip to be -- maybe TMI is the better term.

I don't know if I can express my thought without getting convoluted but here goes. I see where you are saying sig referenced Mac being the target of the night kill prior but this example doesn't explain his comment to S~V~S. In that comment he spoke from the pov of someone who knew Mac was targeted with the kill because he did not entertain the thought that someone else besides Mac could have been targeted and saved or someone else might be the civ role. Instead, he talked about Mac being protected or Mac being the civ. I'm not saying it wasn't an extension of the theory he had but it was an extension that named Mac as the only possible target. If you want to call that TMI as opposed to a slip that's fine with me. Anyway, my point here was I don't think his prior mention helps him. If you think I have this wrong please let me know.

To play devil’s advocate: he also spent most of D1 making associative reads off the assumption I was scum. So. This might just be how sig is?

He did do that I agree. I'll think about this Nanook I appreciate the response. It seemed so much like a slam dunk to me when I read the theory so I want to make sure I haven't been hasty.

I could have sworn I posted about nutella's assessment of Michelle but I don't see it. So anyway, I agree with her assessment. I'm used to seeing much more from town Michelle, a lot of frequent poking and prodding. She is not showing that behavior in this game so far that I've seen.

I'm off to work. I'll be back sometime between 2:00 and 4:30 this afternoon.

I just got home from work so I'll be catching up for a little bit.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:33 am After endless debates I have concluded that Dys' slip analysis isn't an actual thing. Also their G-Man read makes little to no sense, although I'd like them to elaborate on how G-man treating their slot was townie. Also, G-man didn't engage with you at all dizzy, he just said "night phase went well except for dys dying" and that's it. @Dyslexicon

People that are claiming sig has to be scum and aren't questioning why he couldn't have just TMI as a town role (which is the only thing dys' case can be even pointed to, but I don't think that's even a viable probability) is weird. Juliets' vote stuck out like a sore thumb. She went hard on him for no reason, just based off this nonsensical case, and her calling sig desperate so early feels really fake. Moreso, claiming she read his ISO but holding him accountable ONLY for this slip thing is wolfy.

Sig's basically saying that a protective role WOULDN'T have targeted mac and thus, he would have other tools at his disposal to survive the night. scummy ones.

Also also, the "what is ted doing on g-man" when I haven't posted in like 24 hours or something is really bad. Especially when I don't remember juliets even saying anything about G-man, so why even say that?

I can follow sig's train of thought actually.

I'll probably look at TH's push on me at some point but it isn't on my priority list.

So ted you're saying sig could have had TMI because he maybe saw someone target Mac in the night and knew that it was a kill that targeted him? Or is there some other way he could have TMI? I'm not clear on that so please help me out. Also, you say I went hard on a non-sensical case. I didn't think it was a non-sensical case at all. It seemed very straightforward unless I'm totally misunderstanding what Dizzy said.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about me not mentioning G-Man. I've mentioned G-Man quite a bit. I was even voting him for a while yesterday. I think maybe you've just forgotten.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:48 am juliets, why does my vote stand out to you from the other 5 people off the sig v mac thunderdome? especially when you have no read on g-man.

ted I was just asking why your vote was still on G-Man after we all came to the conclusion he was town. Yours was the only one left at the time. I don't know why you think I have no read on him unless you've just missed my posts. Anyway, you said right be fore this post I think that you weren't here at all so you missed that discussion and that's why your vote was still on him. Makes sense.

Also, I would be helpful if you used the "mention" tag by putting an @ in front of my name when you are talking to me or about me. Thanks.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:09 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:55 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:36 pm TH, Colin, Sloonei.

Just bus Mac tomorrow kthx.

I actually love this as a proposed set of teammates


I think juliets has a chance of being in there too. but these are good calls.

Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past Juliets either.

juliets is town but I don't mind having some suspicion.

I agree with S~V~S and Dom about Tranq. I think I already said earlier why I don't lean wolf on him right now.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:42 pm @juliets

What are you gonna do?

About what?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:18 pm Masters team = Sloonei, nutella + +
Anti monitor team = Jack +

There are a range of players who could go either way. Dom, Nanook, Jay, Epi. Heaps more tbh.

Actually piqued by the idea of Sloonei and nutella being teammates now that I've said it. They've sparred like teammates do iirc.

You're blowing up my brain so close to EOD. I haven't looked closely at Jack because I'm shit at reading him. Maybe I have time to look at him now though, or at least his ties to Radish and sabie.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:33 pm My smoking gun with sig is a specific moment in his handling of Radishes: during sig’s lone Day 2 post, he suggests that he had laid out his thoughts on Radishes in an ISO somewhere, but a thorough investigation of sig’s posts reveals absolutely no substantiated read on Radishes. If there’s a slip, it’s that. It has the feel of a player who had intended to produce a bullshit case on his teammate, but then never got around to it and simply forgot that was the case.

Sloonei, just playing devils advocate, I liked this point when you first made it but couldn't it be that town sig had started making notes on a Radish case but then never presented it and thought he had? I'm just trying to make sure, Mac has shaken my resolve a bit.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:51 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:33 pm My smoking gun with sig is a specific moment in his handling of Radishes: during sig’s lone Day 2 post, he suggests that he had laid out his thoughts on Radishes in an ISO somewhere, but a thorough investigation of sig’s posts reveals absolutely no substantiated read on Radishes. If there’s a slip, it’s that. It has the feel of a player who had intended to produce a bullshit case on his teammate, but then never got around to it and simply forgot that was the case.

Sloonei, just playing devils advocate, I liked this point when you first made it but couldn't it be that town sig had started making notes on a Radish case but then never presented it and thought he had? I'm just trying to make sure, Mac has shaken my resolve a bit.

It’s possible. But I’ve pressed sig on this issue throughout the day and he hasn’t provided anything close to a satisfactory answer to this point, or any point relating to Radishes, which leads me to believe that he’s shaken and trying to downplay it because he doesn’t have a good answer in him.

Yeah, that's true. It's like my point that I haven't seen him provide a good explanation for saying Mac was targeted for the kill.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I just did a command F through Jack's ISO looking for mentions of sabie. The first mention I found of her he is saying he can't read her until late game which could be a way to avoid talking about her but then he goes on to suspect her, mentioning her in several different posts. There is one post that gives me pause even though he was joking when he replied to her by saying "Be quiet and get under the bus". Funny but hmmm.

Is your thought that he was trying to distance from her or did you have something specific in mind with regard to their connection that I couldn't see in his ISO?

lots of linki

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:17 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:17 pm @MacDougall I just did a command F through Jack's ISO looking for mentions of sabie. The first mention I found of her he is saying he can't read her until late game which could be a way to avoid talking about her but then he goes on to suspect her, mentioning her in several different posts. There is one post that gives me pause even though he was joking when he replied to her by saying "Be quiet and get under the bus". Funny but hmmm.

Is your thought that he was trying to distance from her or did you have something specific in mind with regard to their connection that I couldn't see in his ISO?

lots of linki

Now read her

ok

Ok Mac I read sabie. She draws the conclusion that Jack is good and votes nutella it seems without a lot of evaluation. She mentions that she will read through both their ISOs but indicates she read through Jack's and then voted for nutella (I saw nothing about her reading Nutella's ISO). When he changes his mind about nutella she says she's not surprised and she knows he sometimes does that for reaction, he's tricky like that. I'll stop there but say that I definitely see how she sides with Jack without giving due diligence to nutella.

So I do see some evidence that they are connected but I don't think it's overwhelming and it's too late in the day for me to evaluate Jack's ISO. I'm going to stay on sig today.

linki - wait did sig hint he was Lassie?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:03 pm

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:36 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:30 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 pm Speedchuck is short odds to be scum here imo

You never responded to my addressing your accusation earlier.

Am I active in scumchat, Mac?

Yes and got told to switch to them on this-2 junk.

Funny people seem able to figure out that role but not any other info ones.

@Juliet this reads like a lassie post to me, I think.

I mean I’ve been wrong before (elephant in inception) so I’m not gonna yell at people for disagreeing, but yeah that’s what I see.

Ok I see. I read it as sig saying he's got an info role but I didn't see it as specifically Lassie. Maybe he is an info role but that's also the only way he can defend against Dizzy's logic. Also, I was taken in by Elephant as well lol, so I'm no better judge than you!

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:20 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:58 pm Ok Mac I read sabie. She draws the conclusion that Jack is good and votes nutella it seems without a lot of evaluation. She mentions that she will read through both their ISOs but indicates she read through Jack's and then voted for nutella (I saw nothing about her reading Nutella's ISO). When he changes his mind about nutella she says she's not surprised and she knows he sometimes does that for reaction, he's tricky like that. I'll stop there but say that I definitely see how she sides with Jack without giving due diligence to nutella.

So I do see some evidence that they are connected but I don't think it's overwhelming and it's too late in the day for me to evaluate Jack's ISO. I'm going to stay on sig today.

linki - wait did sig hint he was Lassie?

*furious notetaking*

All of my suspected Mac teammates doing what I expect of them, which doesn’t really narrow shit down but whatever.

Maybe you didn't notice but I said there wasn't enough evidence for me to jump to you without evaluating you through your ISO. Are you unhappy with that?

I am starving, I hope we get the results soon.

Lol you guys are very funny. I want to gnaw off my hand.

Black Rock wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:41 pm Just waiting on the writer guy to get home.

Black Rock I love you! I have time to fix a sweet potato I'm sure. I'll be back!

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:22 pm Not gonna lie I kinda love Jack’s schtick

I think my whole problem reading Jack stems from the fact that he is so funny.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:39 pm sig's still a top suspect.

I don't understand Sloonei.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:46 pm Timing is good. Audrey (my first born) just got admitted to hospital. Good luck to my team. Well done to my adversaries.

I'm so sorry to hear that Mac, I hope she gets better quickly.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:45 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:43 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:39 pm sig's still a top suspect.

I don't understand Sloonei.

Nothing about mac’s flip changes anything about my read on sig. Why would this have changed?

I'm tired, I'll think it through tomorrow.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:52 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:45 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:43 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:39 pm sig's still a top suspect.

I don't understand Sloonei.

Nothing about mac’s flip changes anything about my read on sig. Why would this have changed?

I'm tired, I'll think it through tomorrow.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] I don't know what I was thinking last night. I shouldn't mafia when I'm so tired.

Now I'm going to catch up.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:06 pm If you think progression makes no sense that I'm on other team with my reads. People are set to tunnel and mislynch me it seems


I called out Mac sinde I knew for a fact he'd be the type to silence me then looking over roles I brought up that theory if his exact role. I also knew he'd be the most likely to direct his power.

Again this was paired with who started to pursue him even more after night 1 was up.

The fact I'm still only being suspected for a fake slip is shit honesty. Especially since people keep saying it isn't that but rolling right back to it and it alone. When there are so many other more obvious reasons.

sig, to make sure I understand here, when you say there are "so many other more obvious reasons" you are alluding to info roles that would tell you both Mac was the one being targeted. Are there any other obvious reasons that I'm not thinking about?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:12 pm

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:43 pm Anyone that still wants to turn around and just lunch me after a combination of being on mac forever. And probably being pushed by his teammates plus the fact the scum read on me is bad to begin with. Anyone who wants to focus on me is probably scum over Mac and his team.

I want to lynch you. Your argument is invalid.

No town role could know what you knew.

I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 pm

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:09 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:07 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:01 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:58 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:47 pm Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

This is actually a terrible look for Speed.

I'm not concerned about that. I've kept up with the game enough to think Mac was going to flip Anti-Monitor. I was surprised to see Saitama.

Saitama is exactly the role sig said he thought Mac was though back on d2 and the one that makes sense with all the theories. But ok.

Yea it reeks for speed honestly. I've been going after this and specifically this role forever.

And you expect me to have read any of those posts... why?

I skimmed Dizzy's post, then voted. After the lynch, I saw Sloonei and Juliets having a conversation like this:

"Sloonei is still a prime suspect."
"I don't get it, why?"

And I'm like WTF did something not go as planned? Mac seems to have flipped scum. What's going on?

So I asked.

I'm sorry speed, my brain was just fogged in. I completely understand why Sloonei would say sig is still the prime suspect. I confused you with my tiredness.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:38 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:37 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:35 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:33 pm Hey @Sloonei

Sig is a foregone conclusion.

I wanna know what you think about Turnip Head.

Town. Reasons well documented.

Wrong answer.

I mean really gets the WIFOM ball rolling on the Mac/Sloonei/TH/Juliets team thing.

This makes me laugh.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:46 pm Jack is literally just harping nonsense at this point not surprising.

Sloonie yea you have a case and I'll cop to nutella using that. However, you can't ignore that most ppl are voting based off dizzy and in doing so ignoring meta.

sig, I don't remember anything about your meta except that you get lynched a lot early game. I will happily look at other games you have played where you are civ and bad to compare. I think the only game were you've been bad here was Girl Genius. Name me a game that you think is representative of your civ play especially with respect to saying the kind of thing you said about Mac. I am willing to reassess my stance on you today since I have the time and your appeals are many but I need someone also to help me with my question above about you're knowing about Mac. Edit: I just see where you posted the role analysis of how info could have been had on Mac so I will review those options.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:54 pm

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:51 pm Also re roles I'm not saying I had one or jad info but I'm dispelling this right now since it really seems like ppl here are just flat out ignoring shit to push my lybch.
You could.
1. Cop check mac
2. Track Mac
3. Track his killer
4. Watch mac
5. Use an item.
6. Watch myself

There off the top of my head 6 things which is like 7 roles and the one item.

So let's dispel the whole TMI shit. Since really that's shit that multiple people are going back to.

On top of that and I feel like a broken clock here. Is the meta thinG around the slip. Which is a big thing and falls within civ meta.

I'll address sloonie post tomorrow and clear that angle up as well.

Linki: lots of them.

And absolutely none of that says what role Mac is or that he was targeted for a kill.

Hmm ok. I'll still take an independent look so I can see for myself.

I'm going to go back and look at Jay's analysis. I skipped it for the moment.

I'm not working today so I just have the gym mid-day so I should be around a lot. I do need to try and get a few things done around the house, this game really sucks up my time.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:24 am Doing this janky cause I’m on my phone

@juliets

Haven’t read the rest of your post yet, but this part sticks out:

“I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.”

We already talked about the potential for him to be lassie, right?

Yes but tell me if I am thinking about this wrong. The Lassie role would tell him who Mac was but it wouldn't tell him Mac was targeted on the night no one died would it? What am I missing?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:30 am

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:26 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:24 am Doing this janky cause I’m on my phone

@juliets

Haven’t read the rest of your post yet, but this part sticks out:

“I'm stuck on this point so if there's anyone who can explain how he knew what he knew from a town perspective I need you to help me understand it. sig can't really help because he can't tell us what town role would know that if it's him.”

We already talked about the potential for him to be lassie, right?

Yes but tell me if I am thinking about this wrong. The Lassie role would tell him who Mac was but it wouldn't tell him Mac was targeted on the night no one died would it? What am I missing?

No, but it’s a logical leap to make. Like, once you know mac is scum it’s not all that big of a leap for Sig to be like “oh I got silenced, mac is mafia and would 100% silence me....wait he probably got targeted N1 and that’s why nobody died.”

Like it’s not that big of a jump to make once he knows mac is mafia

Ok I'll look at it again with that in mind.

Here is the fateful passage between sig and S~V~S:

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:38 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:33 pm There is a civ that can't be nked and two protection roles, Aja and Lassie.

Yea, but I doubt they'd have targeted Mac.

I did think about the civ role, a fair amount. However, I think it's much more likely he's mafia.

<snip>

Tell me I'm crazy, but as I read back over this something clicked for me. We don't have any evidence that Mac was targeted N1. The Monitor could have been targeted or someone who was protected or someone who was jailed or Mac. sig speaks as if Mac was targeted. If sig knows Mac is bad, he may have as Nanook said surmised that Mac was targeted N1 when in reality someone else was targeted. If that happened, that would show sig was just guessing and this TMI/slip thing would lose some credibility.

That said, there is no way that I see that we can tell who was targeted N1 so this theory probably isn't very useful. It does however bring in some question in my mind that it is a slam dunk that sig knew both that Mac was bad and that he was targeted.

Tell me if you think this is crazy or I've overlooked something that upends this theory. I'm not saying sig is not bad, I'm just saying I see a possibility here that would work.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:30 am If Sig copped Mac, why did he switch to voting me?

He wasn't trying to pursue a scum lynch. He was trying to avoid his own lynch.

He's saying I'm making up nonsense because he's flailing.

Ohhh I forgot he switched to you. [mention]sig[/mention] why did you switch to Jack instead of staying with Mac?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:59 am I'm just saying if you're really the cop and you have a red peek on a player and can't say so and you're about to get lynched, you go to your grave voting for your red peek.

Yes, I get it, thanks.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] I think we have to consider all possibilities, as you point out. I had my own reason for seeing that the "slip/TMI" is not necessarily a slam dunk, you provide another. I do want to understand why sig switched from Mac to Jack though, I'm having trouble finding a reason for that, and then as you say there are other reasons for scum reading sig to be explored. I'm trying to be sure I look at this from all sides before voting again.

I'm off to the gym, will return later.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:17 pm it seems like a good point to focus on, especially when I don't see the premise of the push coming from juliets? it's such tunnel visioned on the idea sig has to be scum tming and not town tming, and the obvious choice, from her PoV of "sig slipped and dys' case is goat" should be to lynch mac over sig.

From my pov yesterday, I couldn't see a town role that would know both that Mac was bad and that Mac was targeted. Lassie would know Mac was bad but how would Lassie know Mac was targeted? A watcher (or tracker I get the two confused) would know Mac was targeted but how would he know Mac was bad? That was what led me to not be able to see a town sig.

I have to get some lunch but will be right back.

Well, I'm going to take a nap. Back later. I feel kind of bad taking a nap while Jay is doing analysis. One day soon Jay I will get you to teach me how to do it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:07 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:38 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:32 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:50 pm There is no story, town or scum, that accounts for everything that Sig theorized.

I... disagree?

Did you read my post?

The long one? I think we’re in agreement — Sig does not have complete information of everything he’s said? There’s no reason to try to build a world where somehow he knows everything.

Ah, I see. You're saying Sig is making assumptions in those posts regardless of what role he has.

I also posted a scenario this morning where sig is making assumptions. It's not the same as speed's theory and maybe it's farfetched but take a look at it.

Sorry [mention]speedchuck[/mention] I meant to post that to [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention].

I'm going to read back in the thread for a little bit just to get a better feel for the lynch.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:33 pm Right now I’m like Jay+Juliets or Sloonei+TH.

Or maybe two of one and one of the other.

Are you saying you think I am scum? What changed?

I like the reasoning in this post.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:05 pm Okay but real talk the anti-monitor doesn't just throw in the towel here even if he's the last member of his team. He's got NK protection and a vote handicap. So... Sprityo is probably not that role because why just give up here

I haven't read back far enough to know what role sprityo hinted at. Can someone just tell me?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:53 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:50 pm I haven't read back far enough to know what role sprityo hinted at. Can someone just tell me?

he hinted at "the most important role"

which turned out to be lassie

Ok thanks. I got the impression from some of my read-back that people thought he hinted at something else.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:00 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:44 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:33 pm Right now I’m like Jay+Juliets or Sloonei+TH.

Or maybe two of one and one of the other.

Are you saying you think I am scum? What changed?

Jay's analysis has come up with conclusions I disagree with and he's generally been nonimpactful.

You've also been nonimpactful. Like half your recent posts are like "I'm gonna go eat." "I'm going to the gym."

Neither of you voted for Mac and Jay has defended you.

Same story for Sloonei and TH but with TH being more overt in his defense of Mac and the pair of them being less unlike their normal selves than you and Jay.

Ok. I'll look at what parts of Jay's analysis you disagree with. Also, I wasn't impactful in Inception until toward the end when I caught Long Con and Mac. Sometimes thats just the way it plays out.

Just so you know, I make those posts about going to the gym or eating so when I come back I can go to my ISO's last post and pick up where I left off. I haven't found another way to do that. Also to let people know I'm not around even though my name is probably still showing because I leave tabs open with in process work.

One more thing to point out, not only has Jay defended me but S~V~S also defended me. Haven't seen her since she died so don't know if she's changed her mind.