The Syndicate

Good morning - I am reading through what was posted overnight but I'll leave this window open to stay as current as possible as I go.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 am I think if Mac was notified of a bad action going through on him then it is mechanically correct to just sort in the 3-way.

After reading through the night and the claims I agree with this for one of my two votes which means I need to spend a little time in these ISOs. I also want to read Herm and Tim.

I am going to put a vote on JPIC for the time being though because I like the arguments that 1) copping Mac just doesn't make sense to me and 2) being able to claim his role doesn't make sense when others with what they claim as weaker roles say they can't and 3) he's in Hally's group of 3. I also agree that maybe he's a mafia role cop though I think someone argued against that possibility.

The one hesitation I have is Tim's point that we should just let the wolves kill JPIC tonight or the next night and not waste a yeet on him. I'll think about this some more but right now I'm thinking I don't want to give him another night given the evidence.

Meanwhile, regarding Nook, can some of you who are wolf reading him explain why? I know I saw one person who said he doesn't feel the same as he was when he played town in another game. Why is that? Mac, don't waste a post answering this as I'm going to read all your posts from last night and this morning in ISO and I'm pretty sure you answered. [mention]dyachei[/mention] good morning, you voted for Nook yesterday can you talk about why, especially in the face of the nutella/Tim votes and discussion? And [mention]Herm[/mention], good morning to you as well, I saw where you objected to one post of Nook's but that - and then I think declared there was a 60% chance he was wolf - was the only reason I saw. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. I didn't understand how you got to that number and I feel like you must have had more reason to vote him.

I have to do some work for awhile but I'll be back soon to look into the ISOs.

[VOTE: JPIC] aubergine

[mention]sprityo[/mention] Please claim, Hally's not kidding, you will be yeeted if you don't. I saw you as town for awhile yesterday but today I have to vote for you if you don't claim.

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 pm Did the SRed people claim yet?

JPIC claimed alignment cop who visited Mac which makes no sense because 1) if civ, why would you cop Mac, he's one of the two downiest read people in the game and 2) both Mac and Hally have claimed roles where they are not allowed to claim per the rules and they seem to be investigative roles so why would JPIC be able to claim cop? I think there are more reasons but those are the two that come to me the easiest.

sprit and Noon have claimed they visited Mac but thats all.

Oh Tim claimed too, a role where he knows what % of people in the game are civ. He said his role gets stronger as we go along.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:44 pm Mac is indeed pretty downy. He's a big softie.

lol, I should proof my posts for errors

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:47 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:43 pm

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 pm Did the SRed people claim yet?

JPIC claimed alignment cop who visited Mac which makes no sense because 1) if civ, why would you cop Mac, he's one of the two downiest read people in the game and 2) both Mac and Hally have claimed roles where they are not allowed to claim per the rules and they seem to be investigative roles so why would JPIC be able to claim cop? I think there are more reasons but those are the two that come to me the easiest.

sprit and Noon have claimed they visited Mac but thats all.

Ahh thanks, I'm 10 pages behind. Jpic claim doesn't make sense at all.

Poison, what Mac thinks about the three (sprit,JPIC,Nook) will become much clearer as you catch up with his posts.

Time for lunch and more work. bbl

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:13 pm Did Samu appear today?

I don't recall seeing him this morning.

[mention]dyachei[/mention] this is the best description I think of what Tim says his night action is. Elsewhere he implied that his action that went with the 70-79.9 % civ that we are at now was a md that he used on ted. At least that was the way I read it. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:14 am

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:56 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:54 pm So one reason I bought into Nutella's claim was "it's complicated." Mine is too. In fact I had to wait for Sloonei to tell me what my night action was because it is dependent on the percentage of players that are civilians. Based on the night action I was given 70-79.9% of current players are civilians.

My role is apparently intended as a snowball stopper against the wolves, because the closer to parity they get the more powerful my night actions get.

exactly how tbh? i don't see towns or even scums getting roles that get improved when close to parity.

Sloonei calculates the percentage of players who are civilians. What night action I get depends on what that percentage is. Apparently somewhere between 70% and 79.9% of the players are civilians because I got the night action for that range. If town starts to get in trouble and the percentage falls into the 65% to 69.9% range I get a better night action, and if it falls lower I get an even better night action.

My night action was pretty much a dud, but at least I could say what range we are in and narrow down how many enemies we face a little bit.

Anyway, I had a crappy day one and I'm not gonna argue that I didn't. Good job everyone bagging a wolf without much help from me. But day two is off to a pretty good start and I think if you look closely you will think better of chopping me. Hopefully by the end of the day anyway.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:36 pm btw i just read a few samu posts during my catch up @Poison Chan

oh sorry, I must have skimmed over these.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:43 pm I just got to your previous ping, juliets. I think nook has been pretty wolfy this game. I see a lot of talk that's off topic or defending himself as town - usually when I said something about him being wolf - and not much else.

I'm reading through his iso right now and see that. The thing I'm having trouble with is discriminating between all the off topic he does as town vs. what I'm seeing in this game. I have just gotten to the part where he jokes about your suspicion about him, kind of a "look nutella dya caught us haha". Not a great look.

Also, interesting point about Tim's role. I didn't think about that as I read it but its a good question.

So prior to nutella flipping Nanook says:

"Inb4 Nutella flips mafia/rogue with a soup kill"

And haha, that's what she flips.

Why does wolf-Nanook make this post?

He says after EOD that he wants to say scum Nanook would never say that but he probably would because it's hilarious.

Why does he make this first post? So he can later point to it and say it's clearing? [mention]Master Radishes[/mention] you have wolfed with Nanook, would you say this is the kind of thing you saw scum Nanook do?

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] what was it about nutella that seemed town to you? I know you mentioned her push of me seemed like it came from a townie, was there anything else?

Are you unable to claim your role or do you just not want to?

I have never seen wolf Nanook only town Nanook which from a goofing off standpoint looks similar so I need some help. I'm questioning whether I should be voting Nanook and sprityo instead of JPIC and sprityo.

[mention]Hally[/mention] are you satisfied with what Nanook has claimed?

I hate the fact that when I'm the best able to reason and think most other players are at work, school or asleep! Then, when nighttime comes and I've run out of gas everyone's here lol!

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:41 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:36 pm So prior to nutella flipping Nanook says:

"Inb4 Nutella flips mafia/rogue with a soup kill"

And haha, that's what she flips.

Why does wolf-Nanook make this post?

He says after EOD that he wants to say scum Nanook would never say that but he probably would because it's hilarious.

Why does he make this first post? So he can later point to it and say it's clearing? @Master Radishes you have wolfed with Nanook, would you say this is the kind of thing you saw scum Nanook do?

Completely within Nanook's wolf range tbh. He pays more attention than he often lets on in thread (though he's clearly been more active this game than the ones I wolfed with him) and strategises in wolf chat and such. He's also fairly versatile; in one game he distanced from me early on, in another he tried to townclear me instead and had to backtrack later.

Thanks for your thoughts, it helps me to know this.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:46 pm I haven't played with nanook before that I know of. Just going off his actions in thread

Thank you too dya, I am trying to do the same.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:33 pm what's the best way to iso someone if they haven't posted in a while or are dead?

dya there are iso links on the first page - its the list of players in blue.

[mention]Timsup2nothin[/mention] you say if JPIC were the post capper he would not have claimed cop. Why not? What do you think he would have claimed?

I'm inclined at this point to go along with Mac's plan. Tomorrow morning when I can better analyze I'll parse through the objections more carefully. I am somewhat concerned about the hole I think Hally pointed out regarding the mafia roleblockling JPIC but probably not concerned enough to not follow the plan.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:02 pm oh guys i forgot to say that i can no longer read dizzy

he actually fooled me as scum in a game that just ended so im not giving him a potato pass anymore

@Dyslexicon this is the consequence of your actions >:(

Hally, I was just about to ask you to confirm your town read on him so thanks for posting!

Good morning, I still think the best idea is to follow Mac's instructions (I agree with what Alison is saying) but for the time being I'm not going to move my JPIC vote. Right now he has less votes than sprit but If I move to Tim he's tied with sprit and I really don't see another place to go except maybe Dizzy. I'll make a firm decision later.

There is one thing that confuses me about Mac's post. He tells us to only let JPIC check within the POE but then he tells JPIC he must check between tutuu, spf, and MR. I see his logic in checking for a deep wolf and those are his suspicions for that but they are not in our POE. So what am I missing about this part of the plan?

Also, for now I'm inclined to believe Nanook's claim but will re-evaluate if sprit flips town as Mac asks.

I'm also not liking the complacency in the thread, I just can't decide exactly where to focus my energy. I want to at least follow Mac's plan today with a sprit yeet, though I want to echo Hally's message to [mention]sprityo[/mention]: sprit if you are town you are going to have to claim if you want to have any chance at all and the time to do that is now. Don't do what nutella did which caused maximum chaos which I'm sure was intentional. Claim now. I won't believe you if it's last minute.

Anyway, complacency. I'll look at sprityo again and then JPIC and then maybe spend some time on spf, tutuu and MR. I haven't completely written off Nanook but his claim sounds plausible. My biggest concern about it is that it requires him to target the NK to get the extra vote instead of just identifying the NK but now I'm trying to second guess how the host would have designed a role. It's just maybe a little too easy to have made up once he knew he was seen visiting Mac. So I don't know, I'm vacillating and basically just deferring a decision about him.

If anyone has other suggestions on what the best use of our time is right now I'm all ears.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:31 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:13 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:07 pm coz he has shown this exact behavior before. he high posted and GOATed as mafia, fooled everyone, played his heart out. then next game he rolls town, minimum posts and all the posts that he makes are to explain how much he does not plan on posting and how he just plans to sheep

ted cuz let me fetch my stuff about him, nothing has changed for me

also more about dizzy: he uses something he calls the "erect finger tell" to townread people. so like when ppl get sassy and stuff

he has shown the "erect finger tell" himself multiple times this game, and like, if he genuinely believes that is a town tell, it means that he probably cant fake it that well as scum / feels bad for doing so? dunno, this might be a towntunnel confbias too

he sorta faked the erect finger tell in the game he just fooled me in which is one of the reasons i tr him. but it wasn’t quite the same

What is the erect finger tell?

Oh ok thanks!

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:37 pm nut has shown that the scum team is capable of thinking up believable fake claims

it wouldn’t surprise if the whole team has had towny sounding fake claims ready to go from the start

so we really should proceed with caution as far as believing unverifiable claims

just yeet scummy ppl

Yeah you're right. The feeling I got is that they were scrambling to put together her fake role because she kept adding aspects of it ("Oh, I should have told you I have a list of all the songs in the game") so probably after that they thought out fake roles for the rest of them, ready to go. I'll relook at Nanook.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:39 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:37 pm nut has shown that the scum team is capable of thinking up believable fake claims

it wouldn’t surprise if the whole team has had towny sounding fake claims ready to go from the start

so we really should proceed with caution as far as believing unverifiable claims

just yeet scummy ppl

although this stands in direct contrast with jpic claiming cop who peeked mac

so maybe the scum team is not that clever

hmmm...yeah maybe they didn't make them up fast enough and JPIC just panicked.

dyachei wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:44 pm nanook was kind of weird because he implied he couldn't answer then later said he was trying to draw a night kill. just seems weird because there are a lot of strong, obvious town in the thread

Yes why would the mafia night kill Nanook who is suspect when there are bigger fish to fry for them?

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:52 pm well he said he tried to soft doctor so like thats not inherently illogical imo to think he could try to bait a kill or at least a roleblock if he's town

I forgot about the doctor soft. I just need to re-read him so I've got his story straight.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:12 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:39 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:37 pm nut has shown that the scum team is capable of thinking up believable fake claims

it wouldn’t surprise if the whole team has had towny sounding fake claims ready to go from the start

so we really should proceed with caution as far as believing unverifiable claims

just yeet scummy ppl

although this stands in direct contrast with jpic claiming cop who peeked mac

so maybe the scum team is not that clever

hmmm...yeah maybe they didn't make them up fast enough and JPIC just panicked.

Or... Work with me here... I am literally just a cop

JPIC you know what? I really want to believe you, but that's because I like you. Unfortunately, my emotions have no place in a mafia game.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:26 pm What's poppin playas?

Been busy with work and haven't really read anything recent. Who's town that I can sheep?

Also Mac is bad.

So you haven't read any of Mac's more recent posts from last night? Why do you think he is bad?

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention] so much has happened since that nutella vote long ago. Please take Hally and day's advice!

I'm also inclined to town read Dr. Wilgy, he's just missed a bunch of crucial information to the game state.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:58 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:43 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:41 pm how up to date are you on the mechanical stuff from today, wilgy

0

Mac has claimed to have gotten postcapped in the night. He seems to be playing to the claim and went silent at the designated time. I think this is a true claim, and was imposed by a wolf.

Hally has claimed as a watcher and that she watched Mac's place (which makes sense but is NAI about Hally).

She saw JPIC, Nanook, and Sprit visiting.

JPIC claimed alignment cop with a green on Mac. Because he doesn't fit the towncore definition of towny they disbelieve out of hand.

Nanook allowed Mac to think he was a Doc, which allowed the towncore to assume JPIC was the night kill that got blocked. When a much more likely doc and NK combination surfaced Nanook claimed a "if I see the NK I get an extra vote" power.

Sprit has just been squirrely about his role and seems most likely to me as source of the post cap on Mac.

Tim, I think the above underlined is not a fair take on why people are voting JPIC. First, why would he have picked Mac, one of the towniest people in the thread at the time to cop? Second, Hally and Mac have both indicated they can't claim their roles per the rules and those roles seem to be investigative in some way, so why was JPIC able to claim his role? I don't expect you to answer those questions, I'm just saying those are the questions about JPIC that are causing suspicion (there might be more but those are the two main things I can think of).

edit: I see Hally addressed this while I was writing but I'm posting anyway

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:09 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:08 pm Alright I guess I'll just say it. I was told by Sloonei that I was "stuck in a lift". I asked him what this meant and he said he couldn't answer. When nobody died in the night I figured I was jailkept.

I also considered mafia roleblocker, but since I was a top nightkill target and nobody died in the night, the simplest answer is that I was just jailkept.

Alison, what about MR's claim that he protected you?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:19 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:17 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:12 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:09 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:08 pm Alright I guess I'll just say it. I was told by Sloonei that I was "stuck in a lift". I asked him what this meant and he said he couldn't answer. When nobody died in the night I figured I was jailkept.

I also considered mafia roleblocker, but since I was a top nightkill target and nobody died in the night, the simplest answer is that I was just jailkept.

Alison, what about MR's claim that he protected you?

The jailkeep claim came before the MR claim. I'm leaning more towards mafia roleblocker now.

could radishes’ thing be the lift thing?

not if what he said is true about having Nutella's power

Herm wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:38 pm I feel like one of Radishes, Dyachei and DrWigly is a Deep Wolf.

Herm, did you see Dr. Wilgy's posts recently where he has no idea what is going on in the game? If so, is your thought that he faked that?

My crazy thought for the day: sprityo is "Karma Police", he said in his first post it's the only song by Radiohead he likes. The first chorus from the song:

This is what you get
This is what you get
This is what you get when you mess with us

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:06 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:03 pm My crazy thought for the day: sprityo is "Karma Police", he said in his first post it's the only song by Radiohead he likes. The first chorus from the song:

This is what you get
This is what you get
This is what you get when you mess with us

It's an all right thought, but Karma Police is easily the one Radiohead song that a person might like. Biased opinion perhaps, due to the fact that I think it's a really cool and likable song. If he had told us a more obscure song, I'd buy into this idea more easily.

Ok.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:29 pm It’s my thought process

As far as I am aware, I am just an alignment cop

JPIC do you have any thoughts on why you can claim but other investigative roles can't?

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:36 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:33 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:29 pm It’s my thought process

As far as I am aware, I am just an alignment cop

JPIC do you have any thoughts on why you can claim but other investigative roles can't?

I have literally no idea. Nothing was written in my role card that I couldn't claim

Alright. Maybe you did want to confirm someone in the town core and I'm just projecting what I would have done when I say it doesn't make sense that you checked Mac, but this other part re:you being able to claim based on what Mac said about investigative roles is a real stumbling block for me.

I will be away from the thread for a bit bbl.

dyachei wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:54 pm hally i think juliets is implying she knows what song spirit is?

Yes, I was guessing that was his song (because he mentioned it in his first post) and those words were pertinent to his ability. Long Con shot me down though saying it's a popular song and it probably is just his favorite song, like he said.

Here's another maybe crazy thought: I rather like Tim's contrarian pushes. It makes me think hard about how I'm interpreting events. From what I remember of sf3 Hally is right and he did the same kind of thing there. He's creeping up my reads list.

SPF/Hally agree that nut's attempt to frame one of you as wolf helps me see you both as town.

If my vote on JPIC becomes an issue for a sprit chop I will move it to myself. Otherwise, I'm just going to leave it there for lack of a better place to put it.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:43 pm im confused though because the top line says “may” but then the bottom says “must” and those mean different things

yeah I saw that too Hally and decided I'd rather be safe than sorry

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:43 pm im confused though because the top line says “may” but then the bottom says “must” and those mean different things

It is not beyond me to experiment here, especially if there was high confidence it's just a roleblock since I'll probably holster anyway...but that's probably just my deep rooted issues with authority urging me to be stupid...

lol Tim why would you want to risk it?

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:48 pm This kind of chop is much more information-rich when the top two get chopped.

yeah, I may be dumb but I just don't get why have two votes with only one yeet? If this is someone's ability what is the benefit?

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:56 pm Can I get a little summary?

Poison Chan, I would highly recommend going and reading Mac's last post. It pretty much lays out what we're doing.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:59 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:51 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:48 pm This kind of chop is much more information-rich when the top two get chopped.

yeah, I may be dumb but I just don't get why have two votes with only one yeet? If this is someone's ability what is the benefit?

Let's say we have 10 players. 6 of them strongly believe X is scum, and 4 of them strongly believe X is town including X themselves. X, here, could be a player like JPIC or Herm that draws polarizing reads. Everyone except Y, except Y themselves, believes that Y is probably scum, but less so than X (for the people who believe in X being scum). Y here would equate to a player like sprityo. In a normal vote organization, X would be exed, but in this vote organization, Y could be exed.

Why would a player use this ability today?

Maybe they felt that we should gun down our consensus POE and wanted to nip runaway tinfoil trains in the bud (since, as I have shown, this voting system protects players who have heavily polarized reads on them). That could come from either town who wants to keep voting cohesion or scum who wants to railroad townies into making the obvious exe.

A more likely theory is that it is a side-effect of some other ability, or something that was put in for flavor reasons. You're right that the ability is underwhelming to useless, so the reason it would be included in the game would be for flavor reasons, as some weakened version of a better ability (a la Tim and his claimed scaling power), or as a prelude to a stronger effect (like a cycle of abilities, or a telegraphed effect that can only be used the day after voting is switched). Another reason it could be included in the game is to signal the presence of abilities that could affect voting - in which case we should probably distrust ties, for instance.

Alison thanks so much. You truly amaze me.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:03 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:00 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:58 pm im kinda weird out by how inactive tony is but mac says colin was spewed off nut

I read the argument and I think it was solid spew as well. And I thought Colin was one of the more suspicious people D1, so I'm not biased.

yea i remember liking it too. just wish tony would give us a bit more but maybe he’s busy

I agree and why is he voting for dya??