The Syndicate

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:30 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:31 pm Today I am never lynching:
Long Con
speedchuck
Master Radishes
M Plus 7
TonyStarkPrime

I could lynch:
DrWilgy
PoiSloon
juliets
DDL

I want to lynch:
Hyena
Jack
Nanook

Tony being in your 'never lynch' pile is yuck, but your 'want to lynch' pile (aside from me of course) isn't actually that bad. I don't care about Jack's reporter role. I don't like them using it as a crutch to get townread. I gave Nanook a D1 pass because I wanted to play with him, but I'm okay with lynching him today.

That list was before Jack's role claim; I'm no longer interested in lynching him. Would happily go nanook, though it's starting to feel like I can only be right about one of you and there's more pushing on Nanook going on. So I'm sticking with voting you for now.

Like, sure, Jack's role could be scum after all but I'm not too worried about that right now and also he's gotten more involved and sounds a bit better. So he's no longer a priority.

Hot take Sloonei replaced into a scum slot

Hot take pt 2 he's teamed with nanook

I should figure out how much I really think hyena and nanook are opposed, especially because I started off thinking they were specifically compatible. Idk the amount of "sure let's lynch nanook" in the thread rn is giving me some jeebies.

Also don't think MP is actually that deserving of a place in my trust pile. He's far below MR/speed etc in that regard and should probably be in the middle tier

Revised

Never lynching:
(These people are never ever scum here)
speedchuck
Master Radishes
---
(Okay I could admit it's possible I'm wrong about these)
Long Con
Tony

I could be convinced to lynch:
(Less likely)
M Plus 7
Jack
---
(More likely, roughly from least to most)
juliets
DDL
DrWilgy
PoiSloon

I actively want to lynch:
Hyena
Nanook

Juliets and DDL have similar problems. They haven't stood out or made any impact. I don't like that.

The more I think about it the worse I feel about juliets. She has shown the bare bones of her meta without any of the meat. Her most content-ful post was a lengthy justification of her sig vote after sig had flipped. Not great.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:28 pm @nutella can you tell me why you're so convinced about Tony? Or point me to where you explained it, if I've just missed it?

When he countered the idea that alex jones would necessarily be anti-town. Suggested to me that he has a town role that isn't obviously flavorfully "good" and definitely seemed like something scum would never say there in any situation.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:43 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:08 am juliets' big moment of scumhunting this game was justifying her vote on Sig after Sig flipped.

I know it's juliets and she doesn't reallly... hunt. But I'm not sure how else we are supposed read her, assuming we can even read her.

Early game just isn't my thing. I hope that I'm better today.

DDL already called out the sig thing and she handwaved it without responding to the point.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:05 am Feeling a bit better on MR, since the "In Depth Analysis on OMG Why You People Suck" he spent the night making feels more like something a civ would do than a baddie. He seems to be taking it personally. Though to be fair it does seem he'd make that effort even if he was not one of the people being lynched, so whatever.

Not sure where this nutella wagon even came from, it's very sudden.

I'm not super strong on the Hyena case bu I agree him following me on my placeholder poison lynch is bad. Could vote.

What? I don't really care about the poison vote anymore. Hyena following you on the MR vote was bad. Talk to me about that?

It's not *only* that there were a couple other role/flavor related things he said that contributed. But yeah I could be wrong I guess.

[mention]juliets[/mention] I said what the point was. Please read my posts.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:48 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:56 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:26 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:25 pm 2 of my 3 scumreads were wrong, you know what that means.

IM DUE BABAY, VOTE NUTELLA BYE SCUM

Grats on the baby fam but u bad

I read these two as w/w for the past two pages.

What a shock.

Remind me why you’re reading me wolf again, is it the same garbage reason you started with or you have found a new reason to tunnel?

Yikes

You obviously know speedchuck is town and are being aggressive without reason.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:49 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:21 pm Never lynching:
Master Radishes

Explain

I locked him town D1 due to mindmelds and his thought processes/approach to solving. That doesn't sound very substantial when I put it that way but it is extremely substantial to me (maybe I'm forgetting a detail that sealed it for me, I'll look back in a bit). Then there's the role claim today which seals it even more imo (some may disagree with that but it's how I see it)

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:52 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:07 am Wouldn't mind killing Nanook tbh.

He feels A LITTLE more scumhunting than last game, but the idea of letting Nanook fool me two consecutive times seriously irks me.

I already know the man can fake emotion like a top tier mafia player. I'm not giving him a civ read for cheap.

“I’m SRing him cause I don’t want to look silly” is a legitimately terrible way to play.

Is it a terrible way to play, or is he scum??

Your only criticisms of anyone are that they are wrongtown. Do you *suspect* anyone or no??

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:52 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:50 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:48 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:56 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:26 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:25 pm 2 of my 3 scumreads were wrong, you know what that means.

IM DUE BABAY, VOTE NUTELLA BYE SCUM

Grats on the baby fam but u bad

I read these two as w/w for the past two pages.

What a shock.

Remind me why you’re reading me wolf again, is it the same garbage reason you started with or you have found a new reason to tunnel?

Yikes

You obviously know speedchuck is town and are being aggressive without reason.

I almost always assume that someone is town when talking to them. Otherwise why would I bother talking to them.

Nah this ain't it chief.

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

juliets' post drew to my attention the fact that the two flipped townies were both on the Nanook wagon (and the other two were myself and LC who I believe is town so imo it was a pure wagon). That makes me wonder even more if the sig/mr wagons were pushed by scum to save nanook. Fits with my Hyena case as well.

Wtf do you mean "otherwise why bother" literally what the fuck game are you playing where that's a thing

I get your mafia philosophy isn't always the same as other people's bit wtf is that

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:03 pm Like regardless of my alignment, I’m going to talk to people as if they’re town. Otherwise what’s the point of talking to them at all. SRing me for that is almost as bad as “nanook can’t SR anyone!” which is also demonstrably, patently false.

So yeah, do better, regardless of your alignment.

You've literally said the same two sentences three times now. I don't understand them. Why the fuck would you not engage people you suspect? You're doing it right now, no? Or not, because you don't actually suspect me.

"what's the point of talking to someone you think is mafia" is the bizarrest take I've ever seen in mafia lmfao

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:04 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:30 pm Juliets and DDL have similar problems. They haven't stood out or made any impact. I don't like that.

The more I think about it the worse I feel about juliets. She has shown the bare bones of her meta without any of the meat. Her most content-ful post was a lengthy justification of her sig vote after sig had flipped. Not great.

Is this what you are talking about? I can't think of a game where I've made an impact Day 1. I acknowledge that you feel bad about me because of that. My justification for my sig vote after he flipped was because speedchuck requested we ALL talk about why we voted for the person we did. I don't know why you would see that as a bad thing.

It was an overly elaborate justification, and the only content you've produced. I get that it was answering a question, but one would think you could produce content that thorough about living players at some point.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:05 pm Like Jesus fuck, there’s no point talking to someone as if they’re mafia. You’re not gonna convince mafia you’re right, and if they’re town you just make the game shitty and unfun for them.

Interactions in thread are not only there for the direct participants. I interact with people I suspect to show other people why they're suspicious. This is like 101 level thinking. Come on

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:08 pm It’s only bizarre if you completely ignore what I’m actually saying and twist it entirely differently

I say this with all seriousness, actually read what I’m saying, until then fuck off.

And I genuinely hope you’re Mafia cause jfc if you’re doing this as town.

Yes I get what you said. But I talk to people as if they're mafia all the time and it produces valuable thread content.

What is so bad about me doing this as town?

Wtf do you mean do better though. I am absolutely baffled by your perspective and I think this discussion may have actually helped me see a world where you're town so it wasn't all bad. And that's from a starting point where I was talking to you assuming you were scum, so that just proves my point.

I hope [mention]Sloonei[/mention] reads that exchange. I felt like I was channeling his spirit a bit.

"something I did that was good"


sorry, I'm not convinced.

I know your game, and I think you usually do more by this point. You've been mostly just reactive, rather than asking lots of questions of people.

Do you suspect me? If so tell me more. Unless you subscribe to the Nanook school now.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:45 pm I assume she doesn’t have the same radiant “look at me I’m town!” aura about her.

And you think she has that here??

Mostly his jump onto the MR wagon when he randomly decided to trust DDL for no reason. I have talked about this and pulled the quotes. I thought it was a really bad look, that whole string of posts where he turned around on DDL and followed him on MR without justification. It looked to me like potentially an attempt to save Nanook (after he had briefly had his vote on nanook but felt icky about it) but I think also looks bad independent of Nanook's alignment. Also I think he's a decent candidate to have killed 112.

Here is the main string of Hyena posts I didn't like. His progressions just seem random.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:02 pm Speedchuck, talk to me about DDL. If you can convince me that DDL's town, I might be open to considering MR as an option, too.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:41 pm [VOTE: Nanook] aubergine
I feel disgusting doing this, lol.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:42 pm Honestly, I'd still go for Tony if anybody's interested.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

I like the people on MR way more than I do the other wagons.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:47 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:46 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Obviously I’ll go anyone for self prez if it comes to it lol

Okay, cool. I'll settle for MR then.
[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine

DDL, welcome to my towncore. You're taking MR's spot.

And here are his responses to my gripes
[mention]juliets[/mention] I see you're asking him again, this is all he's said so far which is not very satisfying lol

Hyena wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:12 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:51 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:17 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:47 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:46 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Obviously I’ll go anyone for self prez if it comes to it lol

Okay, cool. I'll settle for MR then.
[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine

DDL, welcome to my towncore. You're taking MR's spot.

Uh ohhhhh


Nutella no likey


Im high btw

This was a huge moment, and not just because I was high lol. This was an awful look on Hyena, and made me think I had misplaced my trust in him. I think it's possible he's teammates with Nanook and was looking for a reason to justify joining the MR train to save his teammate. Why did he suddenly decide to trust DDL of all people? It made no sense. Hyena explain yourself.

DDL was going to take MR's place in my town circle since I couldn't keep MR there if were going to all vote for him. :P Since MR is still here though, DDL is back out and MR is back in.

Hyena wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:17 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:00 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:02 pm Speedchuck, talk to me about DDL. If you can convince me that DDL's town, I might be open to considering MR as an option, too.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME this is the last thing he said about DDL before welcoming him into his towncore. I haven't looked at what speed or DDL posted in between those, but regardless I don't know how you could call that well-developed.

Oh. Yeah, it wasn't well-developed. Can't deny that, lol. I just made a decision on the fly and decided to roll with it.

Hyena wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:19 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:03 pm Lol yeah speed wasn't convincing and ddl hardly said anything relevant, Hyena just decided to townread him somewhere in there without explaining why.

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

I like the people on MR way more than I do the other wagons.

It really makes no sense.

Yeah, basically this!

I think my main problem is how you were so willing to vote for someone who was in your towncore rather than try to get a better wagon going. MR was one of your top townreads from how I saw it, and you decided to throw that away on a whim and trust DDL instead whom you had previously suspected I think. Like I understand the words you're saying in your explanation but I don't understand the sentiment/motivation behind it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:55 pm Keep in mind we need a consensus suspect to agree to lynch on top of the normal lynch.

Yeah. Other people should make lists like mine or something to indicate who is the best candidate for that. I'm guessing Wilgy will be a fine choice for most but let's see if anyone else arises as a good choice.

Yeah, when he is allowed to make it to later game he can do very well but as of now he feels like dead weight If anyone has better ideas I'm listening though.

(E.g. if enough people agree on a more substantial candidate like nanook or hyena that would be fun)

Okay, thanks Hyena. I think a major sticking point for me is the fourth section there -- Nanook winning out over your towncore. Can you elaborate any more on that? If he was "winning out" over your towncore does that not make him your towncore??

I just don't see why your desire not to lynch Nanook outweighed your desire not to lynch in your towncore. You kept saying you weren't "ready" for Nanook to die. What does that mean exactly and what made him a separate thing from your towncore concept?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:18 pm I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.

If it's just that, or some combination of that and giving you another phase to prove yourself, I guess I can understand that but I still find it sketchy

Like, if I count player A as being in my towncore/top town reads and player B as someone who I enjoy playing with and/or would like to see more from to get a read on, I think I always would rather lynch player B than player A.

You know, unless player B is my scumbuddy.

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:21 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:15 pm Okay, thanks Hyena. I think a major sticking point for me is the fourth section there -- Nanook winning out over your towncore. Can you elaborate any more on that? If he was "winning out" over your towncore does that not make him your towncore??

The best way I can explain how I feel about Nanook is... I -want- him to be town. Basically like how I wanted Elephant to be town in the Inception game and how I almost pushed for my own lynch over his, even though he ended up being scum. It doesn't mean that Nanook necessarily is, and I don't feel like he's left his scum range, but, like, I just didn't want to lynch him yet. Not at that point in time. There was absolutely no logic in my decision. It was just straight up emotion and gut.

Ok

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:22 pm Why is what you would do a valid way to read hyena?

I'm just trying to make sense of it. I can't really argue against "it was just a gut-based/emotional snap decision" as I've probably done things like that before that I couldn't really defend logically either, so maybe my "what I would do" isn't even sound. I'm trying to see it his way but I'm missing whatever emotional component led him to spontaneously follow DDL. I can see a world in which he made that decision from a townie perspective. I can also see a world in which he is scum.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:34 pm Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

You are willfully misinterpreting the way I am approaching this.

I never said that he is bad because he did something I wouldn't have done. I just posed that as a way of asking and trying to think about why he might have done it.

Also I don't think Hyena and I are that different? I feel a kinship with his style in general

You seem rather quick to attack me for trying to puzzle this out though

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:41 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:34 pm Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

You are willfully misinterpreting the way I am approaching this.

I never said that he is bad because he did something I wouldn't have done. I just posed that as a way of asking and trying to think about why he might have done it.

WOW the irony and/or hypocrisy, ok

Sorry, what?

I don't follow.

I feel like you're being jumpy at the oddest things lol.

Are you calling me a hypocrite for saying you read my intentions incorrectly?

I shouldn't have assumed it was willful misinterpretation, I apologize for that word choice, but otherwise there is some severe miscommunication here.

Stepping back from the confrontation and commenting on it externally: In games I've played with Nanook where we were both town, I don't think we butted heads nearly this much; in fact I think I often understood his perspective better than others did when he was under scrutiny. Here we've had multiple arguments/miscommunications/disagreements about our approaches to the game (as they have applied specifically in this game) and he's been really eager to shit on me for petty differences in perspective. Not the kind of interactions I'd personally expect to have with a town Nanook. I think he is extra touchy on the details because he is scum and I'm catching on.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:53 pm Let's just lynch Nanook and Nutella and call it a day.

Why do you still want to lynch me lol

Actually though, you are either faking a scumlean on me because you're scum, or your magic nutellameter is broken again. You haven't elaborated on your read of me at all, can you do that? And also explain your scumlean of LC while you're at it.