The Syndicate

honestly i'm so confident spf is town im willing to full on brad defend her and waste a post on this. also full disclosure i did not read her last scum game. if you think im maf you can consider this post me spewing spf town

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:42 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:27 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:18 am I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

Ur largely correct in ur second sentence. Ummm I think spf is scummy because I went through jjjs iso and he barely interacts or talks to spf, whereas I feel like if spf was town jjj would make more of an attempt to speak to spf and interact with her in order to mimic their dynamic when they’re tvt where they speak to each other a lot and bounce of ideas, kinda like how me and u play as tvt. Essentially I think her woulda been more pockety towards spf. And he still pops spf in his tr list despite never talking to her. I think she felt a bit frozen at eod yesterday at times, and I don’t like some of her reactions to fosses today.

She’s been too omgus-ish whereas when she’s town she usually tends to shrug it off more. That’s not always the case and there has been games where it gets to her but it usually looks different. There was a point where I changed my tr on her to a sr and her reaction was something like “come on bro you know I’m town” or something. And that’s just a weird reaction imo because me and spf have this dynamic for like the last 5-10 games we’ve been tvt where we alternate on one of ur tr’ing the other whilst the other is more wary. And the person who isn’t being heavily townread is never too bothered by it because we always end up finding each other as town by the end of it anyways so yeah her reaction there was kinda off to me.

imo JJJ in general was very distant and did not interact with a lot of people, so i disagree with that - he was not around, engaged enough to "bounce ideas" off of her, also they weren't tvt regardless lmao so like all of this boils down to JJJ not SPF

i've seen SPF be omgus-ish a lot as town actually - yeah she has a lot of weird scummy lines so i know what you mean but these are lines ive grown to associate with her town game when she's less self-aware bc ive mistunneled her for them before. you can't always expect to have the same exact dynamic with her especially (for spf anyway) when it's a different site ive found she acts differently, idkkkkkkkkk this is again a like. im not going to hard shield her all game but these reasons are either unconvincing or things i've mis-read her for before


ok going forward i only have a few posts left so going to save them sorry.

tbh i read through esooa's reads' list and i think it's bad lol

ok marmot and dizzy and spf are all town good night

just be me and hard claim your role and self vote and say that everyone is tunneling you and you must die today so to sheep your legacy despite having 0 votes on yourself spf

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:18 am I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:44 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:28 am waza i prob won't post again tonight but please tell me why dizzy is maf without using meta cuz this feels like one of your katze reads
AKA your reads where you fos someone just bc they trick you as wolf the game before or bc you know they're a good wolf

That’s not even remotely close to what happened with Katze. I read Katze correctly at the start and end of every game I’ve seen her. I misread her halfway in poisoner game because I was getting snowed by arete at that point and felt like their dynamic was super weird af which meant there was always a maf in them two. Once I reconsidered my arete read I went back to tr’ing Katze

I find dizzy scummy because I think he’s overly bothered by my sr on him. His first reaction was to call it bad but he didn’t really evaluate whether it was coming from a genuine place or not. It felt like he was more annoyed that he was being srd for what he thought was the wrong reasons more than anything else. In a macro sense he is very different to his last game, I agree, but in a micro sense I don’t think he’s all that different. I skimmed a town game of his earlier and he’s full of insightful thoughts and isn’t afraid to go against the grain. I didn’t really see that from him in his maf game where he seems more content in just sounding towny tonally and just going with the flow. Like he was cool voting mac yesterday when others were fossing mac, but didn’t really do the same to jjj. He echoed doubts on marmot right after esooa expressed doubts but not before which is weird since it seems that he feels strongly about marmot being scum. He said earlier on d1 he didn’t like my push on him so I don’t see how I’m in his trs now. His tr more or less is just very consensus-ish to me. He doesn’t reveal more of his cards then he had to because outside of his read on anne and marmot and his 3-4 trs he gave I don’t really know his thoughts on other slots which gives him a lot of wiggle room as mafia imo.

it is though, and please listen to me on this as if we're talking outside of the game because it's a serious trend that happens with you in games. like that one game i played on Oceanlover, you tunneled me/spf as a team because we didn't think esooa (tessepia) was mafia and you thought we'd be sus of her because she was maf the game before - not everyone considers games in that way. i said not to use meta when you described the read because i think there's a fine line and you can factor it in too heavily and you literally used meta in this explanation with "dizzy has insightful stuff as town" - your micro/macro stuff registers with me on a MACRO level but i still don't think it applies to dizzy here

his doubts on marmot imo were a lot more passionate/his own and i think you are simplifying those - the stuff yesterday imo was clearly time limited and he expressed doubts on both mac and JJJ, JJJ just wasn't a wagon til EOD.

i realize i may look like a fool if he's a wolf here but i still feel like these reasons are valid.

the 'overly bothered by my scumread on him', ok sure, like he probably is bothered because he thinks it's for the wrong reasons but that's alignment aside, and i think if we was maf, he'd just call you town for it and not question your alignment for it too? it's one of those things that imo is easy to call someone town for. a towngame you skimmed with "insightful comments" is the definition of lazy meta

also im sorry if this sounds harsh im just kind of emotionally feeling for dizzy rn. maybe he just pocketed me really well but lol

on your anne read, i feel a lot more meh about her. like yeah your "only 2 specific things have pinged me" is valid but the problem is i can't point to any concrete reasons why she's town and when she's town, i usually can

waza i prob won't post again tonight but please tell me why dizzy is maf without using meta cuz this feels like one of your katze reads
AKA your reads where you fos someone just bc they trick you as wolf the game before or bc you know they're a good wolf

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:34 pm

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:33 pmeh yeah as i said before this was weird AF. at the time it struck me as possibly TWTBAW because like why the fuck are you jumping on your top townread (who has no votes) over that, but maybe not?

I think he just forgot that he was supposed to be reading you town, because it's fake. So far I feel uncharacteristically certain that Marmot is scum.

that's actually very possible and i'm moving him into my POE at this point.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:36 pm Will Leetic/Ilario die together?

yes, that's why i doc'd them

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:31 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:46 pm

cassandra wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 pm they also share a chat and are confirmed town to each other
they're basically weakened masons
i know roles aren't AI, i just think that'd be a weird scum role. because if one dies and flips scum, it'd confirm the other as scum, and idk i just don't think wolf!illario plays it like that right off the bat. i also townread his posting outside of the claim

Uh, how are they confirmed town to each other? Aren't they just confirmed the same alignment to each other?

Is this TMI?

[VOTE: cassandra] aubergine

We must not forget that Marmot went from hard town reading Calexa to an absurd accusation about TMI. The accusation is weak in the first place, and I don't believe that Marmot had this much of a problem with Calexa's wordage of "confirmed town to each other" that he literally just forgot what he had just said:

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:08 pmcassandra - This feels like an easy read. I've played with alexa once (though I don't remember much about her there), but I'm seeing a lot of extended back-and-forths here, and a number of reads that are being adjusted as the game progresses in a believable way. Feels town.

Also, all of Marmot's posts are scummy. Including, but not limited to dogging me and Sloonei when we weren't even playing.

eh yeah as i said before this was weird AF. at the time it struck me as possibly TWTBAW because like why the fuck are you jumping on your top townread (who has no votes) over that, but maybe not?

TY brad. i hate post caps lmfao

except when im mafia then cap away :wowee:

i wasn't even aware JJJ posted reads lmao
but yeah i'm looking now and they can very easily be on villagers, especially when the people on the list (me, illartic, nutella, iaafr, brad, spf) were all concensus villa reads to a degree, maaaybe not spf but she was pretty townread

i don't completely agree with brad's reason to TR SPF because i think that her not taking "stances" in the 16/8 game may have to do with the fast nature of the game and she absolutely is capable of taking stances as mafia, but i've been on such a similar page as reads with SPF this game that i don't think she'd be able to imitate my mindset to a T as scum. also as i said her EOD line of "does anyone have actual reasons to vote anne/NAA?" is part of why i reconsidered my NAA voted and landed on JJJ and pushed through JJJ at all. the way SPF has treated her read on me has felt villagery to me too idk.

i think the slip comment from marmot was at me

which i also disliked because it seemed like a random reason to vote his TOP townread and then he reversed it oddly and just said he overreacted

but his jump at a "slip" on me felt like something i'd do as scum

aside from that i haven't minded his posts but his jump at me there was odd AF.

SPF's treatment of Jay is how i'd expect her to approach him as town - finding him kinda wolfy but not super eager about chopping him day one because mischopping JJJ day one would be bad

tbh the wolfiest thing about her treatment of him is her voting him at all lmfao but i still think she is town tbh

lmao this is the third time this game that spf has said "i don't think either of us believe X" (i almost made this comment earlier then she did it again)

i think dizzy's recent posts are villagery but shrugz

I also had this on my mind as I remember it triggered something in my head and it was before the JJJ flip

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:53 pm Maybe this is the game Jimmay and Sloonmeister finally landed mafia together. We can only hope.

@Dyslexicon what triggered this anyway? I feel like Sloonei at least did not post anything to make their alignment clear so why did you think Sloonei randed with Jay rather than just Jay?

Noted on Sloon, but essentially that post was just me saying that I don't feel comfortable locking someone as town when the somewhat surprising N1 kill had him as maf.

Why SPF, NAA?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:38 pm

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:37 pm I just opened Nook's iso and he thought Sloon was maf because busy town Sloon tries to me at least one read so yeah I may be townreading Esooa way too easily here

Tiers:
Illario, leertic, Falcon, Lime Coke
Iaafr, Nutella, Spf

Marmot
--POE
Dizzy
Wilgy
Esooa
NAA
Anne
Mac

I don't think this PoE is winning

Who am I misreading in the top 7?

Tbh after hydra game I'm very open to reconsidering my confident townreads but if illArtic is mafia I don't think I'm ever getting there reading illario's approach to Falcon this phase

I just opened Nook's iso and he thought Sloon was maf because busy town Sloon tries to me at least one read so yeah I may be townreading Esooa way too easily here

Tiers:
Illario, leertic, Falcon, Lime Coke
Iaafr, Nutella, Spf

Marmot
--POE
Dizzy
Wilgy
Esooa
NAA
Anne
Mac

Anne why are you still voting Falcon when we explained why voting Falcon before Mac doesn't make sense?

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:54 pm

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:51 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:08 pm what came off as a bastardization (maybe more accurately, caricature) of your town game was the moment you claimed protective 3x in response to zero votes and nutella floating paranoia

and "95%? might as well not call it a townread at all"

felt like an extra cartoonish version of your known sensitivity to sus

tbh I just found it funny but I'm p sure that's what esooa was referring to specifically

Lol well I was half memeing on myself because I was aware my reaction was irrational but couldn't stop myself. I don't think I did much harm considering I didn't really think I'd be able to get myself through today without being tempted to claim anyway

And truthfully I do try to imitate elements of my town game as wolf, in champs I legit had my games open and mirrored some exact lines and reactions but imitating that particular part which would get me needless attention with 0 votes on me is not something I'd do. Also after champs/constellations I just really have grown to hate wolfing and don't think I'd be this invested but don't expect people to believe that. I feel entitled to townreads I guess because as wolf with literal JJJ there was 0 reason for me to do what I did eod but I think people in general just struggle to read me and I get it lmao

multiple EMers always say this and it's kinda true but really their compulsion to perform well over powers the hatred of it

why am I town

I don't think any EMers hate wolfing besides me and Brad lmao
Anne wanted to roll wolf in our hydra and I was like wtf
I used to have fun but I mainly realized I don't like it because every time I high effort it results in town being extremely emotional which exhausts me emotionally to an extreme

Don't get me wrong I would put up a good wolf performance if I had to but I have trouble pretending to care about my reads anyway

And I feel like your approach to your read on me is villagery. Not super confident about it but the nuance of waiting for a game to end because you're pinged by my approach to NOOK is so highly specific I'd be surprised if you came up with that if you're aware of my alignment

Esooa prob town now

Brad can you tell me how many posts I have left sob

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:08 pm what came off as a bastardization (maybe more accurately, caricature) of your town game was the moment you claimed protective 3x in response to zero votes and nutella floating paranoia

and "95%? might as well not call it a townread at all"

felt like an extra cartoonish version of your known sensitivity to sus

tbh I just found it funny but I'm p sure that's what esooa was referring to specifically

Lol well I was half memeing on myself because I was aware my reaction was irrational but couldn't stop myself. I don't think I did much harm considering I didn't really think I'd be able to get myself through today without being tempted to claim anyway

And truthfully I do try to imitate elements of my town game as wolf, in champs I legit had my games open and mirrored some exact lines and reactions but imitating that particular part which would get me needless attention with 0 votes on me is not something I'd do. Also after champs/constellations I just really have grown to hate wolfing and don't think I'd be this invested but don't expect people to believe that. I feel entitled to townreads I guess because as wolf with literal JJJ there was 0 reason for me to do what I did eod but I think people in general just struggle to read me and I get it lmao

-Yeah I didn't know Nook's alignment plus the hydra part through me off? I didn't see him as posting as much as Dunya and I had mixed feelings on that slot D1

-I am trying to stop getting emotional under pressure but sometimes I just can't control it lol. If I could control it then it never would've been a thing in the first place. I don't think what I did was that bad though like I almost claimed day one, I have trouble not claiming.
Also that's not something I typically try to imitate as wolf because it doesn't get me townread, that one game was an exception because I was being pushed for it. Last night I wasn't in my right mind sorry.

-I get angry every game Anne gets early townreads when she's acting wolfy and this was no different even though I have mixed feelings on her at this point, I even defended her and pushed through JJJ EOD.


Also my wolf game is not a "poor bastard action of my town game," it's calculated unless I'm lazy and don't feel like trying. I spend a lot more time pocketing people than tunneling them and if I tunnel it's on one person to piss off as few people as possible. I don't needlessly draw attention to myself as wolf.

Idk like I legit had no reason to steer the wagon onto JJJ eod as a wolf regardless of anything that pings you from me emotionally and my role is self resolving.

Ftr a lot of times I can overemphasize how much I sus people because it helps me read them in the moment based on their reactions and the reactions of people in the thread. I skimmed Esooa's iso and it wasn't as bad as I thought and yeah gth Nutella is still town. I think Esooa is still in my POE but idk if she says "idk maybe Alexa wolf" after I hardclaim protective in that timing. I'm down to chop in Mac/Anne aorn.

Ok Wilgy is towny when he drops the gimmick

Tbh I thought Mr was a bad shot because I had him as town, I think shooting the main CW (Anne) wouldve been correct there, though I wouldn't have cried about a Mac shot.

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:01 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:58 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:58 pm I'm pretty sure Nutella is a meta reader, but that's beside the point. Esooa is wolfy

how so?

I just don't like her reads

Which ones?

I literally just don't understand the point of the question in the first place then

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:55 pm It wasn’t in reference to him subbing out since I assume like mu we shouldn’t talk about that, it’s in reference to him 2 posting and jjj holding out posts for sloonei

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:03 pm @Sloonei I have saved some of these posts with the hope of interacting with you pre-cap lift. It’d be really swell just get some bare bones of what you think of the game even if not via a wretched ketchup.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:01 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:03 pm @Sloonei I have saved some of these posts with the hope of interacting with you pre-cap lift. It’d be really swell just get some bare bones of what you think of the game even if not via a wretched ketchup.

I think it's lovely that this game is happening, but I should not be signing up to play mafia at this time.

Only for sloonei to reply with just this. I feel like this interaction would have gone differently if they’re partners, perhaps be a little more extended

Yeah I suppose sloonei's reply at least doesn't sound W/W.

---

Esooa: yeah I recognize that but it doesn't really ping me about Nutella because as I said I don't see Nutella as someone to regard meta like that and I wasn't in the other game so I don't really have context but not every situation is linear. Also if she incorrectly fosed you for being serious that game, why would she townread you now?

Because you saying "you're X way as town" immediately makes it moot because anyone aware of their own meta can change it and I think you of all people know that. Nutella also doesn't strike me as a huge meta reader

God I was about to say Nutella and Esooa may actually both be town but #2402 pings me as insanely W/W, Esooa doesn't usually expect people to townread her so idk. Maybe it's just weird from Esooa and maybe Nutella is just town.

IRT Anne, I feel like she's deliberately ignoring mech stuff that's been explained to her multiple times in a way that's starting to ping me as wolfy

@ilario iRT SPf yeah you may be right I'm being overconfident in my townread, I just feel like she's the person I've been on the same page with this game the most and her treatment of JJJ didn't feel W/W. I said she was town last eod if Jay was wolf because when we were sleeping into potential Wilgy/NAA misyeets she made me consider who I actually had concrete reasons to sus which led to me switching to pushing JJJ.

Honestly I also think the Sloonei wouldn't sub out logic is bad.

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:22 pm I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Mac has claimed a green check on Falcon. This game is not bastard
If you think Falcon is scum, you vote Mac first

You not understanding this is incredibly wolfy to me

Voting Falcon before Mac is literally bad in every single world I don't get what you mean.

/vote Mac

Also side-eyeing Anne hard rn.

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:17 pm Also Mac flipping mafia would neither clear Falcon nor condemn him while the opposite is true, so idk mech stuff

Huh? Mac flipping town would clear Falcon but not the opposite

Also I generally think Falcon's probably town

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:15 pm And I do think Mac and Falcon can be the same alignment anyways, similar to Ilario/Leetic. I agree it's not 100%, but let's not ignore how weird it was for Mac to just come in and clear Falcon right away.

In this scenario you kill Mac before Falcon though.

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:14 pm And btw, I said I TR Alexa for emotional reasons because there are certain things she's said I don't believe she'd say to me as mafia

I also literally led a CFD on JJJ but hey

I don't believe roles were randed before the alignments because my role would make literally 0 sense as mafia it'd be absolutely useless lmfao

Oh I forgot about NAA
He's POE too but GTH town

Having a post cap on this site where it's so hard to count it sucks lol

Spf is probably my strongest townread, followed by illario/leertic (mainly because they called me 95%), iaafr, lime coke

Every time Esooa posts I want to call her outed mafia but I'm aware I need to read her posts with more scrutiny/less lazily

Marmot is prollllllly town. Falcon's posts suck but he was cleared by Mac so W/E

Not sure on dizzy yet but gth town.

Wilgy still feels bad and I don't like the MR shot at all. my immediate poe is Esooa Wilgy Nutella Mac Anne and if that doesn't contain at least 2/3 id be very surprised. If I townread one replace them with Dizzy.

The fact that I'm in your pool when I led the fucking CFD on JJJ feels outing to me.

I need to count my posts to see where I'm at before I say more, I'm just annoyed at this game. I've also literally hardclaimed weakened doctor. Idc if you're "green checked" you can die.

I just realize I don't think I've ever been t/t with Nutella before so maybe I'm seeing all her posts as fake because of that or something I don't fucking know

god i fucking hate these these games. yeah im going to bed lmao

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:25 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:23 am

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:19 am Is it wild that I’m thinking alexa Nutella and esooa can all be town?

from my point of view, yes? i could see myself misreading esooa but i think nutella is like very fucking obvious wolf at this point with her posts

the only reason im not voting is how tired i am and i had some wine so ya i need to rr in the morning

Okie lmk how you feel in the morning. I still think ur like 95% town and idk if this is how nutella would come into today in a world where ur town. Idk I could be wrong but her paranoia doesn’t seem implausible to me. I still think the scummiest thing nutella did all game was having me as a top town because jjj treated me very similarly. Other than, ehhh I have no gripes with Nutella.

95% wtf just say you don't have me as town at that point

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:22 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:18 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:16 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:14 am i cant tell how to constantly look at vote counts on the syndiacate

The only person that voted you, was yourself this day phase.

nutella and iaafr were gearing up to

no i mentioned that i was briefly paranoid of you at one point in this game, which was between the eod1 thread closing and the flip of jay

that was the only interval ive scumread you this entire game

you have some hypersensitivity to anything that even looks like sus of you apparently

true

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:19 am Is it wild that I’m thinking alexa Nutella and esooa can all be town?

from my point of view, yes? i could see myself misreading esooa but i think nutella is like very fucking obvious wolf at this point with her posts

the only reason im not voting is how tired i am and i had some wine so ya i need to rr in the morning

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:16 am

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:14 am i cant tell how to constantly look at vote counts on the syndiacate

The only person that voted you, was yourself this day phase.

nutella and iaafr were gearing up to

im pretty sure someone TMI'd me as real so i got role copped

i cant tell how to constantly look at vote counts on the syndiacate

ok well

i know this isn't smart but it stresses me out rn to be on the chopping block

i'm a doctor except instead of saving someone, i save them for one cycle (so like, i went on spf then i switched to illartic - and if they were nightkilled they'd be poisoned instead)

anyway im super tired and a bit tipsy and it stresses me out to be on the chopping block, im a protective role

im pretty sure nutella is just openwolfing right now same with esooa