The Syndicate

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:33 pm Real townies don't give a damn if Mac has the coin or not.

I care because if he doesn't have the coin he's going to vote and push his townreads.

Given that mafia is forced to kill, if he doesn't have the coin, he's in another "lynch town or lose" situation. So his best move there is to pretend he has the coin and is going to lead town.

Btw mac may not actually have the coin so don't sheep him

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:27 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:22 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:20 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:17 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:14 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:13 pm and you sleep now anyways because you want a 4 vs. 1 ML instead of a 5 vs. 1 ML after you die
But if the remaining guy is confirmed town what difference does it make?

It least with 5v1 we get an extra head to think (Mac's).
Nah we're at 7v1 right now, with mac. if we lim we go to 5v1 without mac. We could sleep there, but sleeping at the 4 way doesn't work

Happy to keep mac around today if he isn't gonna spend all day tinfoiling me, and if the tie resolves our way after lim
Sounds like your view boils down to self-pres.

[VOTE: Arcbell] aubergine
Nope my priority was making sure we don't end up with an extra un-clear by forfeiting the opportunity to stay ahead of mafia on kills, as u can see if you read my posts at all today
Except if that happens we can just sleep at f4.

Yes I am aware of that now thanks to NANOOK. I didn't know NK is mandatory I come from far away lands. In my realm stalemate resolution works by forcing the team who didn't make the last kill to kill.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:26 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:24 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:23 pm I would have elucidated that derp clear exactly to get the read you have if I were in Lag's position as a wolf.
How would you know I'd make that read?
I wouldn't but as a wolf I would try to say obvious things like that to make people think I'm being real. I wouldn't specifically expect you to bite it though, but it would be a general strategy.

So the thing is the porscha derpclear really was quite good, taking a pretty heavily fos'd towny to basically a clear, and it wasn't obvious either. You're saying as maf you'd point that out, saccing one of your ML-able townies just for the possibility of a second-degree townread?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:23 pm I would have elucidated that derp clear exactly to get the read you have if I were in Lag's position as a wolf.

How would you know I'd make that read?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:20 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:17 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:14 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:13 pm and you sleep now anyways because you want a 4 vs. 1 ML instead of a 5 vs. 1 ML after you die
But if the remaining guy is confirmed town what difference does it make?

It least with 5v1 we get an extra head to think (Mac's).
Nah we're at 7v1 right now, with mac. if we lim we go to 5v1 without mac. We could sleep there, but sleeping at the 4 way doesn't work

Happy to keep mac around today if he isn't gonna spend all day tinfoiling me, and if the tie resolves our way after lim
Sounds like your view boils down to self-pres.

[VOTE: Arcbell] aubergine

Nope my priority was making sure we don't end up with an extra un-clear by forfeiting the opportunity to stay ahead of mafia on kills, as u can see if you read my posts at all today

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:19 pm I want to take mizery, porscha and luffy off the table today. Sorry if wrong.

I agree with taking porscha off the table. Lag probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble to elucidate porscha's derpclear as maf in this dire situation, that's my main reason to town read them atm, but their thought process also seemed pretty natural and unagenda'd throughout the game

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:19 pm A clarification: factional NK is mandatory every night.

Ah cool okay then yea we can keep mac today, sleep tomorrow.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:14 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:13 pm and you sleep now anyways because you want a 4 vs. 1 ML instead of a 5 vs. 1 ML after you die
But if the remaining guy is confirmed town what difference does it make?

It least with 5v1 we get an extra head to think (Mac's).

Nah we're at 7v1 right now, with mac. if we lim we go to 5v1 without mac. We could sleep there, but sleeping at the 4 way doesn't work

Happy to keep mac around today if he isn't gonna spend all day tinfoiling me, and if the tie resolves our way after lim

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:12 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:09 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:08 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:07 pm Why would you waste a shot on me you scumbag lol.

I did get the coin though. So time for Arcbell to die now.
Oh okay. Well we sleep anyways. If we lim now we end up with 1 extra unclear
You sleep at f4 not now ya werewolfian.
depends on how standoffs are resolved. on my home site its the side that wasn't last to kill is forced to, which is mafia now, but will be town if we lim now
Sleep at f4 and force mafia to make one final kill is how to play it out.

does sleeping actually force mafia to kill on this site?

and you sleep now anyways because you want a 4 vs. 1 ML instead of a 5 vs. 1 ML after you die

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:09 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:08 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:07 pm Why would you waste a shot on me you scumbag lol.

I did get the coin though. So time for Arcbell to die now.
Oh okay. Well we sleep anyways. If we lim now we end up with 1 extra unclear
You sleep at f4 not now ya werewolfian.

depends on how standoffs are resolved. on my home site its the side that wasn't last to kill is forced to, which is mafia now, but will be town if we lim now

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:08 pm Anyway bring me all of your cases and conjecture and let's figure out who the rapscallion is.

I feel like it'd Arcbell but ya know I'm not gonna tunnel cuz the last mafia seems to want me to die over actual town. Such is the mighty threat that I am.

Targeting you was pretty optimal

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:07 pm Why would you waste a shot on me you scumbag lol.

I did get the coin though. So time for Arcbell to die now.

Oh okay. Well we sleep anyways. If we lim now we end up with 1 extra unclear

to the mafia: please no kill until mac has coin then kill mac

[VOTE: sleep] aubergine

It's mylo we sleep until mac has coin

Lag is also obvious town at this point imo

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:56 pm Mafia didn't know who Glomgold is, so it wasn't possible for them to bus and people voting HK or starting a wagon on him is largely NAI. You seem unaware to this fact to the point that you're indignant over being voted when you view yourself as having started the wagon, but a mafia would know that they don't know who their other teammate is, so you not knowing that is a potentially just a derp-clear

[VOTE: srceenplay] aubergine

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:21 pm Sorry for flooding the topic with talk of other games but I dare you all to say this isn't better than the coin talk.

Cryptocurrency is the future

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 pm If you guys want the real deal, join this year's Favorites.

It's our most prized tradition. Our Role Madness Superbowl. Half the monster indies I mentioned before come from some version of favorites. I made the zombie cult when I co-hosted the 2015 edition.

It's a game where you submit two characters and one will become a role to be given to a random player. Kinda like Mac's U-Pick, but more role madness. Dunya once said roles there look like newspapers. She wasn't wrong.

https://www.fanverse.org/threads/favorites-22.1254213/

(It is a 24/24 game with 50-70 players though)

I'll join if you remind me closer to the start date July is too far for me to be making a commitment

People liked the format, it was just hard to balance

I hosted a few experimental games on my home site called Circle of Trust mafia

Instead of voting people out, you'd vote people you thought were town into the circle. Town needed 6 to win and mafia needed to overwhelm the votes or get 2 of theirs into the circle. The first time you circle a mafia it unleashes a very powerful mafia-sided effect specific to the mafia player who was mis-circled in order to balance it. There were 2 circle votes per night phase.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:50 pm I need to host an NF style game in here some time.

Ive hosted a few cool games but Ive never gone full NF style. I think I'm afraid syndicate people will think it's too crazy since they are more down to earth.

I should just do it though. They can probably handle it.

But I need to time it with vacation time. And get a co-host. Or both.

Do it, I'll join.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:42 pm Like I once made a hitman role that let players opt to sacrifice one day's vote for a kill on a target of their choice. No strings attached, and the hitman's wincon was just to make a lot of "money" (the votes).

Nobody ever hired it.

[cries]

Weird, that sounds like a no brainder

What are your thoughts on porscha and srceenplay luffy?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:36 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:24 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:18 pm Like you guys need to play a game with two cults and one jester some time.

Or a role that can create a different, secret post restriction every day and get infinite kills against whoever breaks it.

Or a role that is completely immortal and changes between town and mafia whenever it is hit with a kill.

Or a role that passively makes every action in the game have a 5% of being randomly misdirected to a random target, including the user.

Or a zombie cult.

Or a role named God who is based on an old testament version and who has like 6 different ways to smite players.

Or the Moon from Majora's Mask who can end the game in 3 days and nullify all other abilities used against it because it "destroyed the game table", according to the host.
Lol

I've wanted to try a weak version of a cultist: Demonic Cultist - May give a player the option to sign their soul away and join their cult once per night. Each signature grants the head cultist a new power, and if someone refuses they lose power / die / something bad
Personal experience: roles that offer "deals with the devil" to players get rejected 90% of the time. Players get really paranoid at that stuff for some reason. Ive tried a few times, they've never worked.

Damn

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:18 pm So "lets help the 3P" my ass.

I mean not all 3P are the same. This one is pretty townsided as they go. It literally can't win if town loses

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:18 pm Like you guys need to play a game with two cults and one jester some time.

Or a role that can create a different, secret post restriction every day and get infinite kills against whoever breaks it.

Or a role that is completely immortal and changes between town and mafia whenever it is hit with a kill.

Or a role that passively makes every action in the game have a 5% of being randomly misdirected to a random target, including the user.

Or a zombie cult.

Or a role named God who is based on an old testament version and who has like 6 different ways to smite players.

Or the Moon from Majora's Mask who can end the game in 3 days and nullify all other abilities used against it because it "destroyed the game table", according to the host.

Lol

I've wanted to try a weak version of a cultist: Demonic Cultist - May give a player the option to sign their soul away and join their cult once per night. Each signature grants the head cultist a new power, and if someone refuses they lose power / die / something bad

Yea that's a good rule

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:43 pm Look, this isn't personal and I don't wanna start a thing, though maybe I just did.

But gamethrowing is against forum rules. If you think someone is doing it, message the mods, don't say it in public.

And it is often used to attack people who have non-meta playstyles. Which is mean and elitist.

Or in this game's case, when I said I would have few posts in day 2 because I was enjoying easter weekend with my family and Rondo replied by calling me a gamethrower and a slanker.

So please don't do that, okay?

I mean, I agree it shouldn't be used to manipulate or put people down, or to deter people from using certain strategies, but sometimes when discussing hypothetical strategies you do need a word for playing against your win condition and that word is game throwing

Mizery wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:13 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:46 pm Catching up.

The next game I host will have a "anyone who uses the term game throwing will be modkilled on the spot". Such an angle-shooty, disgusting phrase.

Since there are four pages left to read and I don't wanna talk about the present until I'm done, let's talk about the past. I ISO'd HK and my impression is he spent A LOT of posts townreading A LOT of people. He had lists of townreads left and right. Is there scum in those townreads? Seems logical. But there are so many of them it's probably impossible to figure out from them. Dude made some good anti-spew work imo.

Little in the way of wolfreads though. In terms if wolfreads, HK would pick one person and park. Day 1 it was falcon (and I think Rondo iirc). Day 2, Jack. Day 3, he didn't vote.

I'm saying all this because I'm having a hard time imagining a wolf who just lost a teammate, whether that was intentional or not, parks on the other teammate on Day 2. Say what you want about wanting to control the night kill, the drawback if having to spend a whole game alone doesn't seem worth it. Because of that, I'm pretty confident on Jack being town.

Back to the ketchup.
Who said gamethrowing

*gasp*

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:43 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:16 pm The upshot is that mac gets his ~2/n chance each night regardless since we learned it takes the coin from the person before and after the rand ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You talk like you don't expect or want to chop mafia today.

HMMMMMMMMM

my desire to chop mafia today is merely in a different room, I still have it

The upshot is that mac gets his ~2/n chance each night regardless since we learned it takes the coin from the person before and after the rand ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:59 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:57 pm
Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:26 pm Actually I just asked nanook and ties are broken in mafia's favor so a tied vote will never kill a mafia.

Although a practical application of the monty hall problem is exciting. It does not offset my enthusiasm for guaranteeing a town death today.
Aww yea okay this doesn't work then lol sorry mac
I mean, it does still work mathematically.

But it's just not pro town in how it works, so we shouldn't do it

Yeah, as much as I want to be nice, guaranteeing we don't lim a maf is a pretty significant drawback lol

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:26 pm Actually I just asked nanook and ties are broken in mafia's favor so a tied vote will never kill a mafia.

Although a practical application of the monty hall problem is exciting. It does not offset my enthusiasm for guaranteeing a town death today.

Aww yea okay this doesn't work then lol sorry mac

I'm so glad you guys understand my old group would've been like wtf is this we're just going to hammer mafia

I'm assuming split votes work the same way it does on my home forum which is it just gets randed between the top votes

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:15 pm I was told I get the coin whether the person had it before or after rand

YESS

Okay we can do it then we just need to split votes between 2 scumreads and wait out the timer for a free coin check or fuzzy coin check

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:02 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:00 pm
Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:50 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:41 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:37 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm Holy shit guys if the coin assigns AFTER mac's steal we can use the vote count to help determine who has the coin
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Like, it's not our wincon. Mac did lovely work for town. But he also forgot to search for the coin 2/3 times. If he gets it and wins with us, that's great. But us winning is the only priority, for me at least.

We should just try to hit mafia.

I want to hear from DDL and Porscha. And then I don't mind an early hammer.
Our wincon does take priority but all this can be done without harming town's wincon at all, and goodwill goes a long way, we don't want mac actively playing against us because he doesn't think we'll help him. Plus I just can't resist extra mechanics :>
As long as Mac does not have the coin, his win con is to kill town. He's already going to be playing against us in that sense
We can voluntarily set a lot more stuff up that helps him than any benefit he could derive from tricking us, so I think his wincon is best served by convincing us he's helping us which I think he currently is.
What can we set up? The coin gives its holder a beloved modifier, it doesn't remove the holders vote power

Well the preferring to yeet his townreads all else being equal for us is one thing, then setting up the policy to leave anyone claiming maf for last and giving people being yeeted the opportunity to make that claim to let him win, then so ok..

.. if the coin assignment randed after the steal (which you mentioned it probably doesn't so this is probably moot) we could split votes between 2 scumreads and if one of them has the coin the other one gets eliminated at EoD timer. Not sure if NANOOK would announce a rand, even if he doesn't it still increases the probability that the person who wasn't randed to has the coin a la monty hall problem. If NANOOK does announce rand then we know neither has the coin.

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:50 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:41 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:37 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm Holy shit guys if the coin assigns AFTER mac's steal we can use the vote count to help determine who has the coin
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Like, it's not our wincon. Mac did lovely work for town. But he also forgot to search for the coin 2/3 times. If he gets it and wins with us, that's great. But us winning is the only priority, for me at least.

We should just try to hit mafia.

I want to hear from DDL and Porscha. And then I don't mind an early hammer.
Our wincon does take priority but all this can be done without harming town's wincon at all, and goodwill goes a long way, we don't want mac actively playing against us because he doesn't think we'll help him. Plus I just can't resist extra mechanics :>
As long as Mac does not have the coin, his win con is to kill town. He's already going to be playing against us in that sense

We can voluntarily set a lot more stuff up that helps him than any benefit he could derive from tricking us, so I think his wincon is best served by convincing us he's helping us which I think he currently is.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:37 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm Holy shit guys if the coin assigns AFTER mac's steal we can use the vote count to help determine who has the coin
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Like, it's not our wincon. Mac did lovely work for town. But he also forgot to search for the coin 2/3 times. If he gets it and wins with us, that's great. But us winning is the only priority, for me at least.

We should just try to hit mafia.

I want to hear from DDL and Porscha. And then I don't mind an early hammer.

Our wincon does take priority but all this can be done without harming town's wincon at all, and goodwill goes a long way, we don't want mac actively playing against us because he doesn't think we'll help him. Plus I just can't resist extra mechanics :>

IT IS SNOWING IN MID APRIL THIS SUCKS

I highly doubt that mac would bet on the actual 3p playing into his fake claim strat if he was maf. Like maf!mac doesn't even know if the town 3p has the coin yet or not, and can probably assume correctly that unless 3p is me or you Lag, he's probably fked in the end either way

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:19 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:16 pm
Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:14 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:11 pm
Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:07 pm As Arcbell mentioned earlier in the game, town aligned 3p claim also has enough wolf equity that you shouldn't just blindly believe it
Not anymore since there's only 1 wolf and 1 town 3p left. Claiming 3p as maf ensures the town 3p knows who you are and just outs with 1 ML remaining for autowin
Unless town 3p doesn't have coin yet, in which case they might not out because they're losing either way
Yeh true, especially since they could still have a chance to win if they get the coin the next night and win in the 3 way. There's something else at play though that I don't want to mention.
Lol come on all the cards on the table please.

Me hiding it is in your interest

Holy shit guys if the coin assigns AFTER mac's steal we can use the vote count to help determine who has the coin

Wait @mac does the coin rand to a new player before or after your nightly ability?

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:14 pm
Arcbell wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:11 pm
Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:07 pm As Arcbell mentioned earlier in the game, town aligned 3p claim also has enough wolf equity that you shouldn't just blindly believe it
Not anymore since there's only 1 wolf and 1 town 3p left. Claiming 3p as maf ensures the town 3p knows who you are and just outs with 1 ML remaining for autowin
Unless town 3p doesn't have coin yet, in which case they might not out because they're losing either way

Yeh true, especially since they could still have a chance to win if they get the coin the next night and win in the 3 way. There's something else at play though that I don't want to mention.

Lag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:07 pm As Arcbell mentioned earlier in the game, town aligned 3p claim also has enough wolf equity that you shouldn't just blindly believe it

Not anymore since there's only 1 wolf and 1 town 3p left. Claiming 3p as maf ensures the town 3p knows who you are and just outs with 1 ML remaining for autowin

My thought is since mac is a player you'll be playing with again, the mafia will want to be gracious and allow him to come out with a win since they're guaranteed to lose either way. So we need to make sure we confirm our hammer before we actually make it then follow through

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