The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:33 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:15 pm He voted Nook for not a solid reason D1 to try to counter sparkles after the lucy wagon died.

Did you mean outed wolf instead of Nook, and if not does that difference mean anything to you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:48 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:15 pm I'm just gay and town.

Don't mind me.

Watching you two cross.

I'm not chilly.

I still want to know your thoughts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:13 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:09 am Yes

thots

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:37 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:31 am Lind if hard to have break out maf game when I have randed mafia twice in the last like month and can't really change my meta like that

Did you catch up on the last eod before this phase started?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:31 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:25 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:17 am I mean if you want to count fol as chat mafia since it's not really like forum mafia imo.

But I started playing end of September 2021 ( just checked when my first game was). My only experience has been forum ( besides the irl party games).

I have also played avalon, sh, and tos (the irl version and not the forum version) as well before I played forum mafia.

Thanks.

I'm trying to determine to what extent this game would be "abnormal" for you as mafia. It doesn't look like the other games you linked or that I found on MU. I have seen players have "break out" games before though where they kind of figure it out and then ball out.

I have to consider the possibility that you left me with Wilgy knowing that he had I have been at odds recently, expecting an easy cross between us.

Lind if hard to have break out maf game when I have randed mafia twice in the last like month and can't really change my meta like that

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:25 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:17 am I mean if you want to count fol as chat mafia since it's not really like forum mafia imo.

But I started playing end of September 2021 ( just checked when my first game was). My only experience has been forum ( besides the irl party games).

I have also played avalon, sh, and tos (the irl version and not the forum version) as well before I played forum mafia.

Thanks.

I'm trying to determine to what extent this game would be "abnormal" for you as mafia. It doesn't look like the other games you linked or that I found on MU. I have seen players have "break out" games before though where they kind of figure it out and then ball out.

I have to consider the possibility that you left me with Wilgy knowing that he had I have been at odds recently, expecting an easy cross between us.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:04 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:50 am @Sabiplz can you expand on exactly what made you vote Nanook last day phase?

POE reasons.

He didn't really town tell.

Dead townies had him in their POE

Okay. Same, essentially.

I’ve seen some of your forum mafia-aligned games. Did you play any other style before forum (e.g., chat mafia)? What’s your total experience level like?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:50 am @Sabiplz can you expand on exactly what made you vote Nanook last day phase?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:42 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:36 am No idea but I didn't want to be part of a f3 because I'm traveling all day tomorrow back to Chicago. I don't have time to do this. I hate f3s and always have.

I think you picked me because you think I will vote Wilgz over you because you assume I'm pocketed and I shared distrust in Wilgz more than I did you.

I think Wilgz picked me because he thinks he can push the paranoia about you and wifom reasons.

Do you have an idea of when you'll be unavailable for your traveling, like within this 48 hour period? You don't have to be super precise if you prefer not, but it'd be helpful to have an idea of when folks will be here. I will have trouble myself due to teaching etc.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:28 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:25 am Well fuck.

I need you both to cross.

Don't pull a Nook and snapvote.

Why do you think you're here, Sabi?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:00 pm in the event of a tie I will ask my 5 year old who to kill

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:19 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:18 pm Nook can now force you to play on there with him

I'm afraid I will be banning myself from Mafia after this game until I have proposed my dissertation.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:57 am Reviewing Sabiplz

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:38 am Also because Alison rvs is very awkward and stiff compared to other aussie visor.

The first immediate difference I noticed from Sabi in this game from their previous here (the States-themed mountainous double-chopper). I thought they were slower in that other game about getting into a proper "hunting" mindset, whereas in this one they were already giving Alison grief seven posts in. Reiterated here

It's a small meta note by the standards of this gamestate.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:38 am I'm bored and gay.

Wilgz might be town. Idk. He seems too engaged in the game when every time I played with him (3 other times) he wasn't. He's not fluff posting as much.

Nook I'd weird and he usually reads me well so his sr on me makes no sense.

Falcon seems engaged I guess.

Mamot no read on.

Jjj no read on but I like his solving my slot. I'm biased.

Link

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:02 pm Volume tells are boring and easily fake able. I only tr Falcon last game when he was posting a lot of fluff because I had tmi.

Falcon needs game related content and shouldn't be tr till he does.

Volume tells are fake able.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:21 pm I'm not hyperposting or top posting. I'm confirmed scum.

That's how yall sounds judging both Falcon and Wilgz based off posting numbers

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:24 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:25 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:21 pm I'm not hyperposting or top posting. I'm confirmed scum.

That's how yall sounds judging both Falcon and Wilgz based off posting numbers

Alright, so do tell me Sabi, what have I done, outside of numbers that would incline you to a town or wolf read?

Your distrust is a good thing, I think.

Null at the moment.

I think if you're scum yiu would be hyperposting because when you slank as town you get put into poe. To avoid that you are trying to appear as towny as possible.

I think if you're town you are tired of everyone poe-ing you and you just are excited to play a game with your pals jjj marmot.and Falcon.

I just need more stuff from you

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:35 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:21 pm I'm not hyperposting or top posting. I'm confirmed scum.

That's how yall sounds judging both Falcon and Wilgz based off posting numbers

I've played with them for years. I've only played one (maybe two) games with you tbf

Fair. I just think giving townreads based off volume on D1 tends to be something mafia does because they want to look like they are solving the game and trying to justify their tmi with shallow tr.

I rather you explain what posts of Falcon and Wilgz is giving you towny pings

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:27 pm Nothing Alison has done since her pop in has given me towny pings.

She's still awkward and stiff.

Anyway I have a migraine so I'm going to be in and out today.

Sabi's early game content was pretty thick with solving material. I threw a number of examples into a porridge here. I can temper this by clarifying that not all of these are explicitly reads; indeed, Sabi dedicated some effort to diminishing town reads on falcon and Wilgy. There can be theoretical mafia value in that, as it can serve to keep the POE nice and open. While the agenda is available for interpretation, it's not one that I feel. To me this looks like someone that wants to make their mark on the game and has real perspectives about how to do so. It's okay to be cautious.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:37 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:32 pm You read all these pages and I'm the only one you have any semblance of a read on? Well go ahead then, proceed at your own pace, I'm sure you'll come up with something.

I have been giving nuance reads on all the active slots so far. I can see both their towny and scummy pov.

Wilgz I just have doubts on because he has slanked 3/3 games I had with him as town so him being super active is giving me doubts because I think he's doing this to avoid being poed.

Falcon hasn't given any good enough amount of game content and all his tr he has received has made me more sus of the low bar he has.

I misread marmot our only game together so I rather wait till I see more from him.

Jjj solving has been noticed but I can see maf or town him doing this to explain away tmi. I have creeped and read his past games because he's #famous.

Nook hasn't done anything towny or necessarily scummy yet minus his terrible read on me. He's one of the few people with an accurate read on me. I need more from him before I judge his slot.

Anything else?

These reads certainly waffle about. It's better that Sabi made it clear that was the intention in the first sentence. I'll have to see how these develop to determine whether it's a problem.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:11 pm I'm going to explain my jjj read.

His solve on my slot is based off the fact that he thought mafia me last game I was not trying to solve with my D1 fluff.

This is an incorrect read because I was pushing on Mac and giving the same style reads as right now.

So yea I feel like he could explain away his tmi in me with an incorrect read in me.

I only have had 4 wolf Rands and have played each one differently so like I don't have a wolf range yet.

This is a decent start. They interpreted their own play in the previous game differently to me, and accordingly they were wary of my initial town read. I'm not sure it's typical of mafia, especially in their first game against me, to treat an erroneous town read of mine like this (instead they probably just say "alright, sick" and take it). There's visible paranoia at play, and that's okay.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:07 pm You are pretty tame this game.

Hmm a little too reserved and timid

This was directed at lucy. It strikes me as important, because Sabi ended up being lucy's staunchest defender. This opening interaction suggests some measure of suspicion. What that means to me I will clarify as I continue.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:46 am As someone who has played a lot of games with Lucy recently. She makes herself obvious by D2. Just patience. If she doesn't by D2 we yeet her to the sun.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:49 am I don't get why lucy is getting this pressure when Nook plays the same style and doesn't do anything AI till later in the game.

I just think yall think of her as lhf

That posture moved not long after. Sabi had given themselves the opportunity to participate in the anti-lucy climate with the previous post, but then opted against that here (and became increasingly adamant about it through Day 2). That would be an awkward pivot for mafia when faking a read on town. This is a small point, at least so far.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:11 am "she's playing as null as possible"

"she isn't giving us anything AI"

"she's mafia"

None of this is making sense.

Alison you moved from one lhf (Falcon) to Lucy. This isn't helping me not sr you.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:56 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:42 pm @Sabiplz can you please elaborate on the Alison vote? I want into your head again.

Basically nothing towny from her. She moved from one lhf (Falcon) to another (lucy). Her reasoning to push her is weak and for someone that wants to win, she has no care that her policy pushing is going to force us into limlo due to miselims. It's anti town.


None of her pushes and reads have been pro town. It's all been centered around Alison.

Perhaps the alternate interpretation would be TMI, particularly with posts like these (dismissing both falcon and lucy as "LHF") as a justification for suspecting Alison.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:10 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:07 pm I'm kinda meh on sparkles. It feels too easy. I have zero meta on her so I will sheep yall.

Wait I'm sticking on Alison for now.

Idk

Esooa also hasn't impressed me but I guess irl obligations?

Falcon is null.

Wilgz sustaining the posting for two days in a row is interesting. Slightest of slightest town leans for now.

Jjj is null. I want charts and graphs.

Marmot may have partner equity with Alison idk. He isn't feeling towny. But I also suck at reading him so idk.

Nook exists.

Visor exists.

Am I missing anyone?

Here's another reads list to follow the development from those before it. The reads are moving, gradually. Esooa and Wilgy seem to have clearer viewpoints here, and perhaps Marmot too.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:05 pm I wish we could vote out Mac for having an ungodly eod time.

Word

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:09 pm @MissSparkles to save everyone a giant wallpost of quotes:

whats your take on me? tbh i dont know why i quoted this so rather then make the effort of backspacing ill ask u a questionn.

I currently didn't have a solid opinion with your early start. I have heard before this game that you were coming out of retirement and wanted games so I guess the rust played a part with the awkwardness.

I kinda did share a kinship over playing with a lot of emotions.

I do like your posts since you came back the game. Feels a bit pockety but whatever. I'm easy.

×××

Do you feel the same way about Alison? I felt ALISON EXAGGERATED IN RESPONSE HERE AND CAME OFF QUITE DEFENSIVE.

Yes but also that's NAI for Alison. She is very policy heavy in terms how she plays. Not my play style but it's hers.

×××

Do you also consider me LHF? So yea this is why im mindmelding and liking your takes, im calling you town on mindmeld.

Idk I haven't played with you but I know others have said you were good and tend to do a lot as a player. You don't have arep of being a slank so I guess I don't view you as a lhf

This is a bit hard to follow, but it's a dialogue with Sparkles. A prevailing view, and one that I have shared, is that Sparkles tried to pocket Sabi on Day 1. Sabi themself was aware of this possibility and voiced that accordingly, albeit alongside a gentle positive reception. Sparkles going for those "mindmelds" looks really unteamed.

Dumb read alert: I think teammates are less likely to communicate in this form, without quotes. It degrades the distance value they'd otherwise be pursuing.

At the end of Day 1, Sabi left their vote on Alison (alongside Sparkles). It was technically a "counterwagon" comprised of two. It'd be a bit bizarre for both mafia to do that on a wagon that cannot overcome the Sparkles wagon, as lucy would have at one point or outed wolf later.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:09 am Alison not dying.

Alison wolf.

Alison vote.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:55 pm Alison tried to force lucy to be a cw to sparkles.

Alison weird comments in eod.

The math isn't matching.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:47 am Alison once again looks scummy.

I rather flip Alison today and if she flips v then policy lucy tomorrow but I doubt it.

I'm hungover and haven't slept so I will explain later.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:48 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:43 am Another point against Alison btw is I think she was very resistant to accepting Lucy's meta stuff when backed by like nanook or someone

That's probably an angle where wolf Alison is pushing things a bit more unreasonably than she i ought to be

Not sold on it though obviously

Also the thing where "she has a poe of two so it's towny" isn't really valid. Even if a wolf needs to push more people than that to win they don't have to today and Alison knows that

Also Lucy's vote reasoning last day phase was SUS imo

Esooa mindmeld ing with me.

Join me and Nook on alison.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:26 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:12 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:43 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:29 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:55 pm Alison tried to force lucy to be a cw to sparkles.

Alison weird comments in eod.

The math isn't matching.

Do you think lucy is town?

I don't think she's scum.

What has she done to make you think she isn't scum?

Because right now she is caring more about her ego than winning this game as scum. She's not the kind of person to abandon her wincon if she's the last scum member. She cares more about teaching you a lesson.

Lettuce tunnel, spec chat.

I say that facetiously, because these posts read to me like people tunneling someone from an unspoiled spec chat. That doesn't imply necessarily that Sabi isn't spoiled, but the vibe made me chuckle. More importantly, this is thematic in Sabi's play. In their lucy defense as well as their aggression against Alison and Esooa, they were insistent, consistent, and persistent. They invested in those motions. From the perspective of "mafia agenda", I'm not sure I see why that's necessary on Day 2 when things are kind of snoozing toward a lucy mischop -- especially if Alison is going to be a night kill. That's all rather incongruent and reflects nicely on Sabi.

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:16 am Nook eod response defending lucy kinda felt genuine.

Esooa I don't even know anymore.

Falcon has dropped hard.

Wilgz also dropped hard.

Jjj is fine.

Marmot is also fine.

Initial Day 3 reads. Maybe they're better called "observations" than reads. They're rather generic and don't add a lot to the solving aura Sabi had previously established. Expanded a bit in a dialogue with falcon

Spoiler: show

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:24 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:15 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:08 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:04 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:14 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:10 pm

Whow would you consider not LHF at this point?

I would consider falcon and Wilgy in that category too, the people I've gathered you are pushing. But so I can get a clarification, who do you think is the wolf atp?

You and jjj.

I don't think Falcon is lhf today.

I have no idea who is maf. Gut/tinfoil is telling me there's a deep wolf in either you or jjj

What are your thoughts on Esooa?

Alison lite.

I don't mind yeeting her since she's being weird and the way marmot and jjj brought up how she handled sparkles was eyebrow raising

Yeah, I'm also not a fan of the way she handled Sparks...or any of her scum reads really. There's lots of hedging and pivot points in her posts, and several examples of unsolicited overexplanations.



OK, so who is in your absolutely not voting list for this RD?

Uhhhh you, marmot and jjj.

Maybe Wilgz (this vote is just a placeholder for now but I would like him to post this game day)

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:19 pm Jk voting for Esooa. No more omgus Wilgz.

Esooa I rather yeet than Nook and j3

Sabi spent a chunk of Day 3 vaguely exploring some paranoia and gradually arriving at a view of the game that was reasonably similar to mine. I think these progressions are fine.

In the interest of not making this post any longer, I'm gonna truncate this here.

There are little things I can nitpick if I want to. I don't really want to. Generally, this review supports my previous perspective: that Sabi looks town. There is a meta argument and a general solving argument that I think is more easily made in their favor than against it (as well as an argument for association with Sparkles). I'd still like to take a quick look at their other sites to judge the value of the volume tell. I couldn't find them right away on MU (is it Kutiplz or something similar?).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:38 am What's on your mind at this point, Sabi?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:45 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:51 pm Anyway this game just ended. It was multiball and I was scum. Under the BesharamSabi name.

I won.

You have 2 states game and this as recent scum rands

https://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/vie ... 06&t=62489

Yeah this game is why im TRing you lol

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:50 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:42 pm Send pics or gtfo

Blessings upon each of you, my babies.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:25 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 pm I'm very much clearly out of my wolf range this game.

What have you done, specifically, that you feel is totally outside your wolf range?


Can ya give me 3?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:18 pm Cool. That seems like it'd be a simple thing to check out. Have you primarily played on MU and playdip?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:13 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:06 pm But yea I barely posted and just min posted the whole game.

Would you say that you have a volume tell?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:12 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:11 pm If you can't find me as town then I can't help you.

Who is this directed at?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:58 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:51 pm Anyway this game just ended. It was multiball and I was scum. Under the BesharamSabi name.

I won.

You have 2 states game and this as recent scum rands

https://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/vie ... 06&t=62489

poo