The Syndicate

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:46 pm @WindwardAway I think vote silencer killed Nutella and used their power on Chelsea? I don't understand how it works, but, the mafia faction was carried on to nutella by on of the 4 we know.

No, I would've been told there was a kill

Also
Nexus (or whatever you wanna call her role) doesn't target themselves as far as I know
In nut's case she targeted a specific player, which we know was Chelsea at least on N1, and if Colin didn't get a new hood on N2 then it mightve just been Chelsea again
I know whoever I targeted was targeted by Nutella

LordQuas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:48 pm i wouldnt be surprised if theres a busser on the guillo wagon tbh. Seemed like perfect space to bus

Oh I'm sure we don't have 8 town votes on Guillo but I also don't think scum would be too early on the wagon

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:48 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:47 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:46 pm @WindwardAway I think vote silencer killed Nutella and used their power on Chelsea? I don't understand how it works, but, the mafia faction was carried on to nutella by on of the 4 we know.
No, I would've been told there was a kill
lol nutella is dead though?

That's my point
I couldn't have gotten results on nutella, because nutella died, and I didn't see the kill
You watched nutella, you saw probably the same number of visitors that I did, including nutella herself
So if our information matches up, and nutella is dead, then either we have a ninja killer or nutella redirected both of us off of herself and you watched the same target that I did, but the killer did not get redirected because nutella couldn't redirect them.

Hey Colin, if you want someone to talk to you about their role, feel free to pick me since I'm already outed

I know this is confusing as all hell but BELIEVE ME, when I say that I believe all of us except for the killer were redirected off nutella, it's for mechanical reasons according to nutella's role card, and also because I was told I saw a nexus.

I'm trying to tread carefully because I know more about the roles in this game than probably anyone else does, and I don't want to out unnecessary info, but I want to help enough that we can solve or at least not pursue incorrect theories (which I admit I did to Colin within the first hour of the day because I'm dumb)

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:55 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:51 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:48 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:47 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:46 pm @WindwardAway I think vote silencer killed Nutella and used their power on Chelsea? I don't understand how it works, but, the mafia faction was carried on to nutella by on of the 4 we know.
No, I would've been told there was a kill
lol nutella is dead though?
That's my point
I couldn't have gotten results on nutella, because nutella died, and I didn't see the kill
You watched nutella, you saw probably the same number of visitors that I did, including nutella herself
So if our information matches up, and nutella is dead, then either we have a ninja killer or nutella redirected both of us off of herself and you watched the same target that I did, but the killer did not get redirected because nutella couldn't redirect them.
ah of course. I got redirected.

....but....if I got redirected, and you got redirected, then @ColinIsCool should have a new neighbourhood . HE doesn't. So unless nut targetted cape we are back to square one.

I doubt its ninja vig because we'd see more kills(?) or the ninja nature would be redirected I assume and we'd know? meh maybe not

likely we're a bit fucked though because if its cape we'll never find out

Not if nutella picked Chelsea two nights in a row
Like, you can't neighborize someone with yourself if you've already neighborized them with yourself

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:58 pm @WindwardAway means we were redirected to Cape or Chelsea (again) is what matches with what you are saying?

I don't know how to parse what you're asking
or if you're asking Colin or me

I mean
I get told ACTIONS
ninja is modifier
Kill is an action
Watch is an action
Neighborize is an action
Nexus is... well, not exactly an action, but it's hard to turn it into a verb

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:00 pm lol on me im tired

basically you said there's a vote canceller right? and that Chelsea has no vote?

where are you getting that info from?

Because I saw a vote canceller as one of the visitors

And idk if that's gonna show on the vote count or if it's a silent thing, like the vote shows but doesn't count toward hammer or plurality

What I meant by that is that a vote canceller targeted nutella
And if nutella redirected us all off of her except for her killer, then the vote canceller also followed.

I mean we can very easily confirm that I'm right by putting someone close to hammer and making Chelsea vote last and seeing if it hammers or not

I don't really want to play around with it right now, though

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:05 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:03 pm What I meant by that is that a vote canceller targeted nutella
And if nutella redirected us all off of her except for her killer, then the vote canceller also followed.
or targetted Chelsea, the only other option available to us.

Er yes actually, that makes a lot more sense
I wouldn't assume the vote canceller is town
And scum wouldn't use that on someone they're attempting to kill
Which would more or less confirm Chelsea as town, right?

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:05 pm vote canceller only works eod?

lame

Idk if it does or not, I was just taking a stab

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:07 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:06 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:05 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:03 pm What I meant by that is that a vote canceller targeted nutella
And if nutella redirected us all off of her except for her killer, then the vote canceller also followed.
or targetted Chelsea, the only other option available to us.
Er yes actually, that makes a lot more sense
I wouldn't assume the vote canceller is town
And scum wouldn't use that on someone they're attempting to kill
Which would more or less confirm Chelsea as town, right?
So between us we xan out one town and one scum if we chose to maybe because i know the names you know the roles

Yep, exactly

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:08 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:07 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:06 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:05 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:03 pm What I meant by that is that a vote canceller targeted nutella
And if nutella redirected us all off of her except for her killer, then the vote canceller also followed.
or targetted Chelsea, the only other option available to us.
Er yes actually, that makes a lot more sense
I wouldn't assume the vote canceller is town
And scum wouldn't use that on someone they're attempting to kill
Which would more or less confirm Chelsea as town, right?
So between us we xan out one town and one scum if we chose to maybe because i know the names you know the roles
Yep, exactly

Two town, actually
Chelsea if she was targeted by the vote canceller
And the role I didn't name that I also saw

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:08 pm Does anyone know order of operations

You mean like natural action resolution? Processing order?

Is Poussin a valid vote or is he completely commuted out

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:10 pm Do we think there are more than one vote canceller? Because I learned the identity of one night 1

Honestly, idk but if there's more than one then it sucks lol

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:12 pm This role also will reveal the alignment to a person if they target the same person twice. Does that sound like a possible scum role?

You mean it would reveal the alignment of the vote canceller?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:13 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:13 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:12 pm This role also will reveal the alignment to a person if they target the same person twice. Does that sound like a possible scum role?
You mean it would reveal the alignment of the vote canceller?
Yes

It sounds like a non-town role
The alignment reveal is probably meant as a handicap so that the vote canceller can't just camp on the same player every night
Possibly scum, might be more likely 3p?

Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:15 pm i'm the vote canceller is this not clear lol

No that really wasn't clear lol
Are you going to tell us who you targeted last night?

Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:17 pm i didn't target nut i targeted colin

i hope this contextualizes everything i was doing d1

Wait so nut redirected everyone to Colin? And Colin targeted... Himself, so he failed to make a hood?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:20 pm LITERALLY WINDWARD TOLD ME THE COLIN STUFF.

She came in telling me this in our chat.

Yeah I confirm this was entirely my fault, not Sabi's fwiw

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:20 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:19 pm
Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:17 pm i didn't target nut i targeted colin

i hope this contextualizes everything i was doing d1
Wait so nut redirected everyone to Colin? And Colin targeted... Himself, so he failed to make a hood?
No because my night action was triggered by someone

I didn't mean everyone in the game
Just anyone who targeted nutella

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:21 pm
Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:19 pm im confused

mine's a day action and it fired off at eod1 as far as i know
This tracks with what I know.

I voted for Valentine, was vote blocked as a result (Valentine selected me before day's end) and learned Valentine's role as a result.

Nobody would have been blocked day 2 because there was no day 2.

If someone targeted nutella at night with a vote block, that's a different role, per the role info I received.

Oh, so that's why you were asking
Well, two vote cancellers sucks...

...are we sure that there's no delayer in the game? Like a role that can choose to delay someone's action resolution for a phase or two?

Or am I going down a rabbit hole

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:23 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:21 pm
Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:19 pm im confused

mine's a day action and it fired off at eod1 as far as i know
Yh but weve learnt you need to use it twice for colin to find out mech
It's either a town(ish) role meant to help deter people who are on your case, or a scum role that you have to be careful to spread around

Tbh the specifics of Val's role as they're explaining it seem like they could go either way
I wouldn't completely rule out town but it kinda depends on if there's a second vote canceller and what their alignment is
Then again Val could just be lying about the mech, since clearly there was a vote canceller last night
If theirs is a day ability, though, I shouldn't have seen them at night anyway.

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:24 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:22 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:12 pm This role also will reveal the alignment to a person if they target the same person twice. Does that sound like a possible scum role?
Here
Colin said needed to be targetted twice to learn who it was from
Valentine says its based on votes happened day before
No one voted d2 so valentine cant use action d2.

Wait but didn't the D2 actions go through on N2 instead?
Also how would Val get to use the action anyway on D1 if there's no D0
That doesn't make sense
It only makes sense that they can target Colin if they got compensation for D2 being skipped and used the VC fRom D1

I really want to go to sleep but I'm trying to figure this shit out

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:27 pm Valentine isn't lying about their role being day actions unless the info I received is wrong/incomplete

Well, then if I choose to believe you, it would mean I definitely didn't see Valentine's action.

Colin, when your vote got cancelled, did it still show in the vote count? Or how did that work?

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:28 pm @Valentine why didnt you try to cut the power of someoje you thought was scum

Because that person gets Val's alignment I guess if they block the same target twice
Idk though, they could just not target the same person again, right?

Soooooo... I take it nobody else wants to claim vote canceller?

Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:31 pm the options i have were "person who i don't really think is towny" or "3p who is outting info and would probably out my stuff in some effort to communicate with town" in confirming my alignment i genuinely don't see why this is like. hard logic to follow on my choice

And if scum got info that you were town, from your POV, why exactly is that bad?
If they hide it, you out them
It doesn't give them extra info unless you're not telling us something. It tells them you're town, and they already know you're not scum. Like what else would they think you are, a 3p?

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:32 pm
IBA wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:29 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:25 pm Meh maybe we just kill scummiest player
As much as I hate to say it, I do not think this is a situation where we should just wing it on gut feels and do have to actually try to break down the chain of claimed actions.
Cry

Anywho just went back and checked guillos alignment they aee king scum
Godfather + spam vig

For sabi to be scum they decide that guillos role is invalidated early and that sabi busses guillo from start. Guillo looked like he was trying to survive tbh. I doubt this happened. Its also guillo

So bus, if happened, happened later in day when it looked inevitable

Mmhmm

Yes which is why I think Poussin is a good scum candidate except that he's commuted out apparently

It's half past 2 in the morning and I don't think I can handle much more solving rn
But I will gladly answer more questions on mech or my theories or whatever people want to tag me for, when I wake up

Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:34 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:33 pm
Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:31 pm the options i have were "person who i don't really think is towny" or "3p who is outting info and would probably out my stuff in some effort to communicate with town" in confirming my alignment i genuinely don't see why this is like. hard logic to follow on my choice
And if scum got info that you were town, from your POV, why exactly is that bad?
If they hide it, you out them
It doesn't give them extra info unless you're not telling us something. It tells them you're town, and they already know you're not scum. Like what else would they think you are, a 3p?
because wolves can deny it or say "oh this or that" and have more incentive to deny it potentially than i thought colin did
i don't really think he has any stake in lying about it in the way a wolf could

Yeah but a wolf lying about it would just pull a 1f1 if anything, like maybe you'd die but then one of them would also die immediately after which is not so great for them.

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:32 pm When did Chelsea vote for Guillo? I don't see a vote on him anywhere in her ISO, but she was voting for him at EoD in the poll

Idk the answer to this
Wasn't Guillo pushing on her though?

Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:38 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:36 pm
Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:34 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:33 pm
Valentine wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:31 pm the options i have were "person who i don't really think is towny" or "3p who is outting info and would probably out my stuff in some effort to communicate with town" in confirming my alignment i genuinely don't see why this is like. hard logic to follow on my choice
And if scum got info that you were town, from your POV, why exactly is that bad?
If they hide it, you out them
It doesn't give them extra info unless you're not telling us something. It tells them you're town, and they already know you're not scum. Like what else would they think you are, a 3p?
because wolves can deny it or say "oh this or that" and have more incentive to deny it potentially than i thought colin did
i don't really think he has any stake in lying about it in the way a wolf could
Yeah but a wolf lying about it would just pull a 1f1 if anything, like maybe you'd die but then one of them would also die immediately after which is not so great for them.
i don't see it like that because i've seen wolves get out of stuff they shouldn't because people are reticent when they lie like "oh i just didn't get it please!" and then throw in some emotions like frustration or being sad

Idk about you but I'd totally vote someone out if they did that lol

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:38 pm @WindwardAway why dont you just out the last role to visit our mystery guest

I can use info on two remaining visitors

Proxy cop
So the target has the result.

IBA wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:38 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:31 pm Soooooo... I take it nobody else wants to claim vote canceller?
No but I will say that I also have a vote fuckery role, the details of which I will not elaborate at this time, and having 3 such roles seems... idk I guess it's not impossible but. I'm having a hard time believing Val's claim.

Although I guess it's easy enough to verify in theory, and it's hard to see how we kill anyone that's not Colin or Daughter today.

Well, I'm confident Colin is at least a neighborizer and is telling the truth about his role and who he targeted because it matches with my info as far as I can tell
So I'm less interested in him rn
Daughter I'd be absolutely fine with yeeting except that I'm a little worried she actually is town
Like I decided over N1 that she was probably wolfing
And her role claim just kinda nails it in for me
But she's picking such weird pushes that aren't even likely to gain traction as far as I can tell and I can't exactly call it agenda

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:41 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:38 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:32 pm When did Chelsea vote for Guillo? I don't see a vote on him anywhere in her ISO, but she was voting for him at EoD in the poll
Idk the answer to this
Wasn't Guillo pushing on her though?
He was, and her response was "lol Guillo's obvious mafia", but then every post of hers after that seemed to be backtracking a justification to call Guillo mafia but not move her vote onto him. She never placed a vote on Guillo in a post, but she did vote him at some point in the poll, and without an anchor point in a post I have no idea when that was. WIthout that, the way just her posts about Guillo read, looks like W/W distancing. Have to check context to see if Guillo wagon was gaining traction by then, if so then it strengthens my thought that it was intentional and that would make Chelsea potentially the late-wagon busser. But I don't want to throw that out there if wrong just because I don't have a timeframe reference because of the way the site works WRT voting

OK, I'll take that into consideration
Will have to ISO her later because I do wonder what's going on with the vote and the pushes
I know that Guillo knows how to antispew, so I also want to go through his posts and see when he started pushing Chelsea.

DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:43 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:39 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:38 pm @WindwardAway why dont you just out the last role to visit our mystery guest

I can use info on two remaining visitors
Proxy cop
So the target has the result.
Idea being someone targetted nut so nut gets the result of a cop action completed by proxy cop?

I dont know how it works

But if this is the case....shouldnt colin have a green check for us

No, not if nutella didn't target Colin
I thought she targeted Chelsea again
It's also possible someone redirected nutella and everything is a mess (but I think redirects cancel out iirc)
I want Chelsea in the thread because I think several of us have questions for her

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:43 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:39 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:37 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:35 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:35 pm Am I shadowbanned? Hello, can people see my posts? I have questions that I'm looking for answers on!
Lol sorry dude

What ya saying

sigh

something about Chelsea's ISO feels off re: her interactions with Guillo and I can't find anywhere in her ISO where she actually threw down a vote on him to check if it's unfounded or not, but she was voting on him in the poll at EoD. Do votes just not show up in the ISO for some reason?
Guillo dipped voting for chelsea

I think Chelsea more likely fine based on but not sure

I dont really get why nut targetter Chelsea d1 and im just hoping we find out more drom that
If I'm reading correctly, Val as vote stealer claimed targeting Colin, which means that Nutella targeted Colin too for Wind to be able to see the vote steal (aka Val) targeting "Nutella" (who nexused elsewhere)

that whole thing is still super confusing though ngl

No the issue with that is that I saw a vote canceller at night and Val has a day ability

IBA wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:48 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:47 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:43 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:39 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:37 pm
DeeZees wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:35 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:35 pm Am I shadowbanned? Hello, can people see my posts? I have questions that I'm looking for answers on!
Lol sorry dude

What ya saying

sigh

something about Chelsea's ISO feels off re: her interactions with Guillo and I can't find anywhere in her ISO where she actually threw down a vote on him to check if it's unfounded or not, but she was voting on him in the poll at EoD. Do votes just not show up in the ISO for some reason?
Guillo dipped voting for chelsea

I think Chelsea more likely fine based on but not sure

I dont really get why nut targetter Chelsea d1 and im just hoping we find out more drom that
If I'm reading correctly, Val as vote stealer claimed targeting Colin, which means that Nutella targeted Colin too for Wind to be able to see the vote steal (aka Val) targeting "Nutella" (who nexused elsewhere)

that whole thing is still super confusing though ngl
No the issue with that is that I saw a vote canceller at night and Val has a day ability
How do we know it's a day ability

Val claimed its a day ability
Colin says he saw a day ability
So both of them would have to be lying TOGETHER for it not to be a day ability

At least that's what I understood
But tbh at this point i am questioning if I'm the one who's misunderstanding things

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