The Syndicate

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:04 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:02 am Random thought but I feel like I'm the only one who's been trying to solve the game through a combination of reads and figuring out the game mechanics. I think the setup mechanics are important to distinguish from player mechanics, which is why I care so much about those ghost votes and slank kills. If we attribute something to a player when it's actually not directly anyone's fault, it could be a game-losing assumption, and vice versa. I would bet that wolves might try to steer the narrative in the wrong direction if possible, since they at least know what their own abilities are, and therefore what is/isn't caused by them.

None of this probably matters to the rest of you. But I guess I'm saying, just remain vigilant, and be careful of the assumptions you make.
I just struggle with mech but I'd argue I've made my opinions known on what's happened mech wise.

Yeah, you have, that's true.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:02 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:49 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:44 am Also yeah there's likely a role that wipes legacies.

I think that is potentially game losing for town if it's not capped in some way.
Agreed. I'm kind of hoping the wiped legacies will reappear after the janitor dies, but I'm not sure.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:45 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:40 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:35 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:31 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:25 am

why would you even say this? it’s not what i was thinking about at all? why are you so confident i’m a wolf?
Just kinda am. I believe Lily was town and I believe she is too damn good to ignore if I'm right. I've read her iso while being silenced cause I was bored. I think you all are just wrong.

I'm still anxious about Long Con too but at this point my fear of them is moving in the opposite direction of my fear in you.
why do you believe lily was town and what was your read on brad? and why has long con trended up for you?

i’m not looking to catch you in a lie or anything but you’re saying a lot of things and i don’t understand why + you’re providing no reasoning
Yeah, understanding abbi's thought process would definitely help me to read her because I'm not sure what her reasoning is on most of her takes. I do recall that she said Brad lurking is NAI for him, which, yeah, I'd agree except in the case that he's a wolf and the game is going badly for his team. Which we don't know for sure, but then it comes down to assumptions lol.
Thing is. I'm pretty sure town is ouroborosing itself and wolfs are winning.

I don't think the pyxxy and Jack kills were activity related but maybe I'm wrong... my instant reaction was that's a lot of kp and I hope some of it is town.
If wolves are winning, then who's the team? You think they're powerwolfing to push town, or you think they're lurking and letting town jump off a cliff on its own?

I do think pyxxy and JOH were slank kills. Neither of them voted for two days in a row, and voting is mandatory. Everyone else who didn't vote yesterday had voted D1, and the others who didn't vote on D1 like me voted on D2.
I just don't see Rondo modkilling the slots instead of just replacing them out

And I have no clue who the team is clearly I'm voting robyn

No no, I mean specifically because of their lack of votes, not for their lack of posts. I am very, very sure of this.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:17 am Like we can reasonably safely flip porscha and [n1 kill I'm completely blanking on and too lazy to check for] green, or not mafia at least and that's all I care about rn

Then we just build worlds and eliminate as many teams and pairings as possible, ID the most and least likely ones, and work off of that.

Easier said than done of course but that's how you typically solve flipless games and this one is no different.

Cape and Porscha were town, yeah

And yes but I solve flipless games by making assumptions on the ones who didn't flip, too. You can tell me it's unnecessary but i personally would just be floating around aimlessly if I can't do that.

Yeah, but I am interested in making setup reads so that I don't incorrectly attribute mechanics to a player when it's nobody's fault, etc. Because I think that could easily spiral out of control into a scenario where we lose because we didn't understand the game.

On an unrelated note, thinking Abbi might be town.
I want to get a solid read on svs today.

I have a hunch about the janitor but I'm going to keep it to myself for now.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:09 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:55 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:38 am I voted just to get Wilgy above Host/spec votes.
Idek if voting does anything i took a gamble as to whether it has a positive or negative effect because idk if it did anything at all on N1, either. Nobody said anything about it.
They couldn't say anything about it even if it did

Oh

I thought maybe they could cause it wasn't related to role
But you have a point, lol

Like the thing I said about the slank kills. I am almost certain it's "if you don't vote 2 days in a row, you will be slank killed, and it will not be announced as a modkill". So I will make sure to vote. I advise town to vote, wolves probably know now NOT to do this, and the only way it could be a player mechanic is if someone has a slank vig that lets them kill players who haven't voted for two days in a row. Because exactly pyxxy and JOH met that criterion. And I guess we won't know for sure, but I am quite sure of the conditions, regardless of who or what caused the kills to actually happen. It would explain why there were no slank deaths on D1.

Random thought but I feel like I'm the only one who's been trying to solve the game through a combination of reads and figuring out the game mechanics. I think the setup mechanics are important to distinguish from player mechanics, which is why I care so much about those ghost votes and slank kills. If we attribute something to a player when it's actually not directly anyone's fault, it could be a game-losing assumption, and vice versa. I would bet that wolves might try to steer the narrative in the wrong direction if possible, since they at least know what their own abilities are, and therefore what is/isn't caused by them.

None of this probably matters to the rest of you. But I guess I'm saying, just remain vigilant, and be careful of the assumptions you make.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:50 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:45 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:42 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:35 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:31 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:25 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:24 am Feel free to thunderdome me though.
why would you even say this? it’s not what i was thinking about at all? why are you so confident i’m a wolf?
Just kinda am. I believe Lily was town and I believe she is too damn good to ignore if I'm right. I've read her iso while being silenced cause I was bored. I think you all are just wrong.

I'm still anxious about Long Con too but at this point my fear of them is moving in the opposite direction of my fear in you.
why do you believe lily was town and what was your read on brad? and why has long con trended up for you?

i’m not looking to catch you in a lie or anything but you’re saying a lot of things and i don’t understand why + you’re providing no reasoning
She played like town Lily I don't even know why people wanted her dead she was herself and nothing she did was that dramatically wolfy I don't see wolf motivation I see towny annoyance towny indignation purity frustration at how you were attacking her it was ALL towny. None of her play advances a wolf agenda nor does it play wolfy. She's just town... probably. I town read her early. I town read her all night phase. I know you think I'm not the greatest mafia player but my early reads are generally pretty fire.

Bread I have stated I thought was town but I'm not confident on that.

Long Con mostly revolves around how they are treating me.
I will agree that lily didn't do anything dramatically wolfy, but as I said earlier (I think during the night, and probably in response to Porscha iirc), I almost always think she's tonally towny on D1 but she makes her alignment apparent a bit later. I've seen her wolf once or twice, I think twice? And starting on D2 onward it sometimes becomes apparent if she's making an agenda push or reacting in a wolfy way. I don't think there was much for her to react to on D1 except maybe the boq/Porscha thing and the discussion between lily and robyn. That's really all we have to go off. She didn't have a super egregious reaction to people calling for Scotty to shoot her.
She was just tonally super town

She was tonally town with Porscha but her interactions with Robyn were tonally obvious town and pure. Robyn also changed their stance on Lily being shot at some point in the night and if I'm right on Lily and Robyn I do wonder if that was kinda too get Lily off their case and protect themself a little cause Lily was hounding them so much.

I'm still not convinced, but I'll reconsider once I read through it again.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:44 am Also yeah there's likely a role that wipes legacies.

I think that is potentially game losing for town if it's not capped in some way.

Agreed. I'm kind of hoping the wiped legacies will reappear after the janitor dies, but I'm not sure.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:45 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:40 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:35 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:31 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:25 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:24 am Feel free to thunderdome me though.
why would you even say this? it’s not what i was thinking about at all? why are you so confident i’m a wolf?
Just kinda am. I believe Lily was town and I believe she is too damn good to ignore if I'm right. I've read her iso while being silenced cause I was bored. I think you all are just wrong.

I'm still anxious about Long Con too but at this point my fear of them is moving in the opposite direction of my fear in you.
why do you believe lily was town and what was your read on brad? and why has long con trended up for you?

i’m not looking to catch you in a lie or anything but you’re saying a lot of things and i don’t understand why + you’re providing no reasoning
Yeah, understanding abbi's thought process would definitely help me to read her because I'm not sure what her reasoning is on most of her takes. I do recall that she said Brad lurking is NAI for him, which, yeah, I'd agree except in the case that he's a wolf and the game is going badly for his team. Which we don't know for sure, but then it comes down to assumptions lol.
Thing is. I'm pretty sure town is ouroborosing itself and wolfs are winning.

I don't think the pyxxy and Jack kills were activity related but maybe I'm wrong... my instant reaction was that's a lot of kp and I hope some of it is town.

If wolves are winning, then who's the team? You think they're powerwolfing to push town, or you think they're lurking and letting town jump off a cliff on its own?

I do think pyxxy and JOH were slank kills. Neither of them voted for two days in a row, and voting is mandatory. Everyone else who didn't vote yesterday had voted D1, and the others who didn't vote on D1 like me voted on D2.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:42 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:35 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:31 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:25 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:24 am Feel free to thunderdome me though.
why would you even say this? it’s not what i was thinking about at all? why are you so confident i’m a wolf?
Just kinda am. I believe Lily was town and I believe she is too damn good to ignore if I'm right. I've read her iso while being silenced cause I was bored. I think you all are just wrong.

I'm still anxious about Long Con too but at this point my fear of them is moving in the opposite direction of my fear in you.
why do you believe lily was town and what was your read on brad? and why has long con trended up for you?

i’m not looking to catch you in a lie or anything but you’re saying a lot of things and i don’t understand why + you’re providing no reasoning
She played like town Lily I don't even know why people wanted her dead she was herself and nothing she did was that dramatically wolfy I don't see wolf motivation I see towny annoyance towny indignation purity frustration at how you were attacking her it was ALL towny. None of her play advances a wolf agenda nor does it play wolfy. She's just town... probably. I town read her early. I town read her all night phase. I know you think I'm not the greatest mafia player but my early reads are generally pretty fire.

Bread I have stated I thought was town but I'm not confident on that.

Long Con mostly revolves around how they are treating me.

I will agree that lily didn't do anything dramatically wolfy, but as I said earlier (I think during the night, and probably in response to Porscha iirc), I almost always think she's tonally towny on D1 but she makes her alignment apparent a bit later. I've seen her wolf once or twice, I think twice? And starting on D2 onward it sometimes becomes apparent if she's making an agenda push or reacting in a wolfy way. I don't think there was much for her to react to on D1 except maybe the boq/Porscha thing and the discussion between lily and robyn. That's really all we have to go off. She didn't have a super egregious reaction to people calling for Scotty to shoot her.

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:35 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:31 am
robyn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:25 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:24 am Feel free to thunderdome me though.
why would you even say this? it’s not what i was thinking about at all? why are you so confident i’m a wolf?
Just kinda am. I believe Lily was town and I believe she is too damn good to ignore if I'm right. I've read her iso while being silenced cause I was bored. I think you all are just wrong.

I'm still anxious about Long Con too but at this point my fear of them is moving in the opposite direction of my fear in you.
why do you believe lily was town and what was your read on brad? and why has long con trended up for you?

i’m not looking to catch you in a lie or anything but you’re saying a lot of things and i don’t understand why + you’re providing no reasoning

Yeah, understanding abbi's thought process would definitely help me to read her because I'm not sure what her reasoning is on most of her takes. I do recall that she said Brad lurking is NAI for him, which, yeah, I'd agree except in the case that he's a wolf and the game is going badly for his team. Which we don't know for sure, but then it comes down to assumptions lol.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:15 am My new avatar is perfect!

I approve of your new avatar

Also, where are you getting that lily was super towny? I had mixed feelings on her when she was posting cause I thought she was towny at first but started to doubt that take during the night, so I don't really think I can make an assumption without factoring in the lack of legacy.

It did occur to me, however, that there could be a wolf role that wipes legacies, akin to a janitor. I don't think any of the earlier flips were janitored, though, but the flavor note on Porscha's legacy kind of makes me think her legacy existed but got wiped.

Btw, slank cover for D3, I'm hosting an event at my office so I'll be pretty busy today!

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:38 am I voted just to get Wilgy above Host/spec votes.

Idek if voting does anything

i took a gamble as to whether it has a positive or negative effect because idk if it did anything at all on N1, either. Nobody said anything about it.

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:37 pm I'm sorta experienced but yeah I'm not great at wolfing lol

Still get misread a lot though so it's cool I'm just kinda wolfy a lot

I can totally relate lol

I'm not convinced that voting at night does anything at all, but just in case:

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:17 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:10 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:52 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:40 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:55 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:39 am I see porscha has lock towned herself while I was gone, heck yeah. Good job buddy
How's that?
She's super polarized + I'm really good at reading her
What do you mean by 'super polarized'?
Noticeably different as town vs mafia
I see. I never really played with her before; she struck me as an experienced player.

I think she's experienced, but yeah, ive always heard lots of talk about polarized Porscha. I've also witnessed it, but I also played in one counterexample where everyone said she broke her wolf meta (iirc she was wolfy for a while and then somehow did something that made people rethink her slot, myself included, and we all incorrectly concluded that she was town in that game).

Idk though, I never heard of it happening again lol.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:43 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:18 am
robyn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:43 am wwa and ender and others

i’d like discussion on svs and boq, i feel like they’re simultaneously both in wolf range and flying ubder the radar enough for alarm bells to go off
I'm pretty sure boq is town in part because I dont think he has many partners

I'm not sure I've read a single svs post
There are 48 of them. Not hard to find. 49 now.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:18 am who would people vote out right now?
Following up on Capes legacy is important to me. So one of Marmot or Long Con I guess. Personally I think people w/r him due to his tone, which I guess I don’t notice really anymore, and don’t particularly find him bad, so I’ve been leaning Marmot, but with no flips, I could go LC as well I suppose.

Marmot prolly has no legacy, while LC prolly does.

If Marmot doesn’t vote tonight it might be a moot point.

Why are you so certain cape's legacy is a good lead?

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:18 am who would people vote out right now?

Myself, so I don't have to keep up with this game

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:43 am wwa and ender and others

i’d like discussion on svs and boq, i feel like they’re simultaneously both in wolf range and flying ubder the radar enough for alarm bells to go off

I think boq is town because I understood his case against Porscha perfectly well on N1, even if I reached a different conclusion.
I'm probably not changing my mind on that read, but if you have evidence to suggest I should rethink it, I'd like to hear it anyway.

Svs I'm open to voting. I definitely think she's gone under the radar. I only had one reason to townread her and it wasn't a hard clear (the lily vote), and she hasn't produced enough content since then for me to feel entirely comfortable continuing to rep a townread on her, so I've rescinded it. I asked yesterday when I was deciding whom to vote, if anyone had thoughts about Svs and I don't remember anyone saying anything, so I went and voted Brad because, again, nobody said anything (except for Abbi who just said she didn't think lurking was scummy for him, which, yeah I know, but it's within his wolf range and so was everything else).

For that matter, I couldve placed my vote on Svs instead of Brad to see how eod went down, too. I just wanted to force a discussion on a slot I thought was going UTR, and it sort of worked!

Back to your question, though. I'd have to go through svs's interactions (and make more assumptions on which wolves, if any, died) and hope I'm on the right track, and while I feel fairly confident in my dead reads, I'm not absolutely certain, which could lead to some massive errors in association reading.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:25 am I would not care so much about who did or didn't leave a legacy if I were a wolf, I'd just tell scumchat to get their shit together and make up a legacy to fool town. That much should be apparent. Everyone should be writing legacies to benefit their wincons.

Fwiw i think this is just a personal problem of mine, that I can't believe people would sign up for a flipless game with legacy in the title where the main mechanic is that you write legacies to "prove" your flip, and then not even do that.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:25 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:23 am I will stubbornly continue to assume lily is a wolf and I'm kind of past caring whether anyone agrees with me or not.
And I think the way Brad has played is consistent with how he plays when his wolf partner dies. He could fake it for longer because lily didn't flip, sure, but he does run out of steam pretty fast when he wolfs, and that's something I doubt has changed in his meta because I've seen him make a real effort to try to change that, but to no avail.
He doesn't run out of steam as much explicitly when he wolves with a subset of players.

I've had to be careful of games Alexa is in not just because Alexa is a good wolf herself but because Brad on the same team doesn't suffer any of the burnout (Guy carried it to F3 and managed to get me killed when we domed at F3).

But otherwise yes

He lasted pretty long in a game where he wolfed with me on a team of 4 or 5, so I know what you mean, but we had a very strong team of all active wolves controlling the thread, with theatrics and no slankers. And Brad ran out of steam as soon as he got pressured with a wagon, then made a pretty ballsy attempt to bounce back, but ultimately I bussed him because he lurked too much.

I would not care so much about who did or didn't leave a legacy if I were a wolf, I'd just tell scumchat to get their shit together and make up a legacy to fool town. That much should be apparent. Everyone should be writing legacies to benefit their wincons.

(this is a joke to prove that telling people you're town does not convince them at all that you're town)

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:22 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:15 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:12 am @EnderWiggin what do you think of porscha atm?
Rereading eod I don't think she tries solving Brad like that as w/w?

Yes I'm partially flipping Brad's alignment for this.

But also Brad's last minute plea too.

Idk I have changed my mind.

I guess also my big sus on her was sorta built around "Brad town vote manip" which is debunked today tbh.
I don't think I need to color Brad red to lock porscha town atp, tbh. I think she's probably just town.

I'm currently kinda at wwa and bereft but I'm still way behind and have like 5 assignments due in 17.5 hours sooooo....do my legwork for me and tell me their alignment, pls?

I'll do the legwork for you, I'm town. Bereft is probably town off his N0 posts still, but it's a very memory-based read.

I will stubbornly continue to assume lily is a wolf and I'm kind of past caring whether anyone agrees with me or not.
And I think the way Brad has played is consistent with how he plays when his wolf partner dies. He could fake it for longer because lily didn't flip, sure, but he does run out of steam pretty fast when he wolfs, and that's something I doubt has changed in his meta because I've seen him make a real effort to try to change that, but to no avail.

I want to sort of preflip lily and Brad as wolf partners to see where that leads, but I also feel like I could majorly fuck up my solve if I'm wrong.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:18 am Well.

Probably a dumb read to make anyway.

I'm just disappointed that I'm the only one who has put mech + fun into my Legacy.

Wolves should kill me so everyone can see my glorious Poem.

Also so I don't have to think about reading 30 pages again.

My legacy isn't a poem but it contains quite a bit of effort. Which probably nobody will read anyway, lol.

Wait no, nvm, it was just on whether landlords or tenants or property managers are the worst (I think)

Eh, scratch that theory.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:16 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:09 am Actually, I had a thought. Maybe some of the ghost votes are affected by who gets voted during the previous night phase? But I don't remember who voted whom on N1 I remember some votes being on Bereft but that's all.
What happened D1 then?

Idk, wasn't there a poll open on N0? (I don't actually remember because I didn't bother with it)

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:13 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:11 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:09 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:53 am Ender, did you read this page? why did you do that when I am trying to solve this?
No. I was sitting stressed out at a place waiting and looked at my phone and realised I had ~10 minutes to vote and had forgot to vote so I drudged up what memory I had and put my trust in Robyn and put it forth.

Also LC not claiming in legacy is kinda wolfish tbh.
I would call it wolfy except that people got mad at me for saying lily was wolfy for leaving her legacy blank, too. Both those players knew they were likely to die, but apparently "town doesn't have to share information" or whatever the counterargument was that I do not buy whatsoever.
LC still not leaving a legacy AFTER that very public debate on it feels wolfier.

I got the feeling he hadn't backread, though.
I did see svs remind people to write legacies at EoD, though, so I do think Brad should've seen *something* that would've reminded him.

But Abbi's counterargument to me is that town doesn't have TMI so they don't owe anyone reads and also don't owe anyone their role. I disagree completely, as was evidenced by how fucking long I spent arguing with her over it, but I can't call it wolfy if I don't know whether town is also doing it. Especially the slankers. And by that, I mean, would Brad have shared the same view? If he were, say, vanilla town with no results would he write that in his legacy? I still think it's important, but it didn't seem like I was in the majority opinion.

I still think everything Brad has said and done has been within his wolf range, btw. The early activity, drop in activity, and last-ditch effort to save himself but only half-heartedly, while Porscha was genuinely trying to solve him.
And i know I said I thought his read on me was nuanced enough to be towny, but he never added anything to it and it sort of stagnated so I gave up on it.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:09 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:53 am Ender, did you read this page? why did you do that when I am trying to solve this?
No. I was sitting stressed out at a place waiting and looked at my phone and realised I had ~10 minutes to vote and had forgot to vote so I drudged up what memory I had and put my trust in Robyn and put it forth.

Also LC not claiming in legacy is kinda wolfish tbh.

I would call it wolfy except that people got mad at me for saying lily was wolfy for leaving her legacy blank, too. Both those players knew they were likely to die, but apparently "town doesn't have to share information" or whatever the counterargument was that I do not buy whatsoever.

Actually, I had a thought. Maybe some of the ghost votes are affected by who gets voted during the previous night phase? But I don't remember who voted whom on N1

I remember some votes being on Bereft but that's all.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:04 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:03 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:49 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:43 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:14 am
Vote Count
Lime Coke - (5) - EnderWiggin, Boquise, WindwardAway, robyn, Bereft
Marmot (3) - DrWilgy, S~V~S, Lime Coke
Long Con (2) - ☆Princess Abigail☆, Porscha
robyn (1) - Long Con
Porscha (1) - +1
Bereft (1) - +1

Invalid - (3) 1+ Marmot, (S)yxxy, Jackofhearts2005, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

This is one of the most confusing VCs I've ever read

I think yesterday's was worse

It's the seemingly random pluses that don't correspond to anything as far as I can tell that are sending me

There were 6 of them on D1
At least there's only 3 now
5 people didn't vote on D1
3 people didn't vote on D2
So it's almost, but not exactly, correlated by the looks of it.

Ok, back to this.

5 votes on Lime Coke, 5 names. Checks out.
3 on marmot, 5 names. Checks out.
2 on Long Con, 2 names. Checks out.
1 on Robyn, 1 name. Checks out.
Now things get weird.
1 vote on Porscha, no name.
1 vote on Bereft, no name.
3 invalid votes, 4 names and a +1.

Lime Coke, marmot, Long Con, and robyn were unaffected by ghost votes this time. Porscha and Bereft each got one ghost vote.

The tricky part is parsing the invalid votes. 4 players did not vote for anyone, and one ghost vote seems to have counted as invalid as well, but only 3 of those votes actually counted as invalid. Meaning that 2 of the invalid votes probably had no vote whatsoever (more invalid than invalid, if that's even possible). Or at least that's how I understand it. It could be because two of the nonvoters were (presumably) slank-killed for no activity, and they retroactively don't count as having vote power.

And all of this is speculation as if the ghost votes are a game mechanic and not a role mechanic. It's possible that *some* vote manipulation could be from a role, too, though. The D1 numbers didn't really add up, either (5 invalid votes and 6 ghost votes).

Wait. I just realized, you're right, the nonvoter section is even more confusing lol. I didn't read it properly. You also didn't vote, but then what is that 1+ next to marmot?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:03 am
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:49 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:43 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:14 am
Vote Count
Lime Coke - (5) - EnderWiggin, Boquise, WindwardAway, robyn, Bereft
Marmot (3) - DrWilgy, S~V~S, Lime Coke
Long Con (2) - ☆Princess Abigail☆, Porscha
robyn (1) - Long Con
Porscha (1) - +1
Bereft (1) - +1

Invalid - (3) 1+ Marmot, (S)yxxy, Jackofhearts2005, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

This is one of the most confusing VCs I've ever read

I think yesterday's was worse

It's the seemingly random pluses that don't correspond to anything as far as I can tell that are sending me

There were 6 of them on D1
At least there's only 3 now
5 people didn't vote on D1
3 people didn't vote on D2
So it's almost, but not exactly, correlated by the looks of it.

Also, I owe an apology to Abbi (I can't figure out how to tag her). I was on an extremely short fuse last night and I'm not sure why I was so pissed off at her posts in particular.

I've cooled off now, you did give your readlist, and I get that you didn't think lurker wagons were useful. I still don't townread you, I don't scumread you either, but I will try harder to find you.

Ok so anyway, I'm not entirely sure whether Brad was town or scum. Again, he didn't leave a legacy, but he did talk in the thread while trying to save himself for a while. Porscha is town for actually trying to solve Brad, I'm not rescinding that.

I got mixed signals from Brad when he was replying to Porscha and I think he could realistically be either alignment, which is unfortunately not such a valid conclusion.

The other two who died didn't place votes, and if you look at the VC, marmot didn't vote either, but a ghost vote landed on him and he didn't die. So I'm thinking it's a game mechanic that punishes people for not voting, with the random chance that if a ghost vote lands on you, you might not die.

Anyway, I don't think that's important, other than pointing out that everyone should place a vote during the day if they don't want to die.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:43 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:14 am
Vote Count
Lime Coke - (5) - EnderWiggin, Boquise, WindwardAway, robyn, Bereft
Marmot (3) - DrWilgy, S~V~S, Lime Coke
Long Con (2) - ☆Princess Abigail☆, Porscha
robyn (1) - Long Con
Porscha (1) - +1
Bereft (1) - +1

Invalid - (3) 1+ Marmot, (S)yxxy, Jackofhearts2005, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

This is one of the most confusing VCs I've ever read

I think yesterday's was worse

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:47 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:14 am Lime Coke has been killed

It is now Night 2 and you have 23 hours to submit your night actions.

Jackofhearts2005 has been killed.

(S)yxxy has been killed.

Oh I really fucked up that quote, huh
Are people straight up getting inactivity killed? Because that's gonna make for a really swingy game.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 4:14 am Lime Coke has been killed

It is now Night 2 and you have 23 hours to submit your night actions.

Day 3 Approaches [/center]

What

Jackofhearts2005 has been killed.

(S)yxxy has been killed.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 3:57 am @Lilypetal @WindwardAway @robyn @Cape90

Same with the rest of you.

Acknowledged
I already figured, but reading that interaction made me more sure
Sorry about starting the wagon on you, I wanted to fuel discussion on your slot more than I cared about whether you actually went over or not.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:17 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:11 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:09 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 10:07 pm this is in line with my previous worldview of long con/porscha/wwa town which is something i believe fairly strongly in. i believe that brad committed the sin of having 7 townreads much too quickly. but i also wanna hear what you have to say because i disagree fairly strongly, have you ever seen brad drop off like this? (unless a wolf partner dies) @EnderWiggin
My single reference to scum brad was them being a goofball in our shitty wolf situation. They were kinda a non-intrusive chaos goblin, but didn't drop off in spite of our silly situation being down a teammate super early.

for whatever this is worth.
i can pull up a few games where he plays d1 well and completely drops off as wolf, contextually after champs as well i expected him to care about this one
FWIW I can confirm I know this is a thing Brad does/can do where he D1/D2 plays well as wolf and then loses energy.

Can also confirm, I've wolfed with him before.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:15 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:54 pm Why am I not paired with lily? @EnderWiggin
Is it just because I've been ragging on her for not leaving a legacy, or what? I barely interacted with her yesterday, I focused instead on Porscha, boq and Robyn and the only time I interacted with lily was to agree about the one Robyn thing (when she quoted Robyn's posts where Robyn tried to save Scotty by voting Nook, and I said that it was a good case for w!Robyn because it showed that w!Robyn would be aware that it was more to town's benefit to keep Nook alive, so they would vote Nook and manipulate votes to kill Scotty)

And I've since dropped that take. I actually do buy the theory that the ghost votes were random or semi-random and meant to encourage people to use their votes.
I thought you had an odd clash with her during the night phase???

It's possible I'm mixing people up but I was sure you/Lily had a clash that just didn't look paired.

That wasn't me, that was Robyn. I wasn't clashing with anyone during N1 but I was commenting on the ongoing debates.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:27 pm Kinda feel this reaction is wolfy but doubt anyone else will sooooooooooooooooooo

Ok well at least you finally called me wolfy, I'll take it.

I just don't understand at all what you've been doing. If you're town then sure, I don't doubt you've been doing stuff, I just don't get it and maybe I won't understand at all this game. I'm not trying to bash your play. I legitimately do not understand what telling me over and over again that you're in town meta is supposed to accomplish. It won't convince me if I'm a wolf, it isn't convincing me as town, and it's just frustrating that you also seen to assume I'm calling you a wolf when I've said "I don't townread you, therefore you default to PoE" like how clear do I need to be???

Now that I'm at 130 posts I'm actually logging off, bye.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:23 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:14 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:23 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:05 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:33 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:14 pm If we're not voting lurkers because we want more info, I'd go for Abbi or Brad tbh, and if people are up for svs then I want a decent case on her.

If we're including lurkers, I'm fine with marmot and JOH because neither of them has produced any meaningful content.
How in the FUCK am I a lurker?
Read that again
I said, if I'm NOT voting lurkers.

Anyway, I voted Brad and you didn't comment on it
Pretty sure I've made it really obvious I think that's dumb
You did make it obvious that you think it's dumb, and yet you didn't do anything against it, either.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:24 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:06 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:37 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:32 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:27 pmWhy write a legacy to rehash what you've already said in thread.
Just sharing your role can help.
Can it? I can just lie lol
Yeah you can lie, but if you're town and you lie for no good reason, I would policy you in every game after that. Just saying.

If you're scum, feel free to lie, I expect as much.
Town like lie all the time but my point is there zero way to know if something is true or not so unless you have new info it's largely useless
If you lie when you're alive and intend to reveal the truth later on, that's fine. Especially in a game with flips. If you lie in your legacy in a flipless game and you're dead and can't speak, that's throwing. End of story, I am not arguing about this more with you because I can see you obviously don't care.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:24 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:07 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:43 pm
WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:27 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:24 pm

I don't get how I'm not in my town meta
Hmm, let's see.

The last two times I said you were in town meta, you were scum, so no. Clearly i have no idea what your town meta looks like anymore.
True and yet here we are with you calling me a wolf for meta when I'm in fact town
I'm not calling you a wolf for meta, I'm calling you "not town off meta" because I don't trust your claim on your own meta and I don't think you've been exceedingly towny. I don't think it matters, anyway, what your meta is because as I said already, I incorrectly meta read you twice in a row. I'm not doing that again.
And yet. Your reading me wrong.
Stop fucking misrepresenting my read on you. I am not going "Abbi is super scummy, kill Abbi ". I would've voted you if I thought that. I am saying you are a null at best, I do not townread you, I don't know if I scumread you, but you are grating on my nerves because every time you reply to me, you tell me I should read you as town because youre in your self-proclaimed town meta. I do not have any fucks to give about what you say your meta is, and whether you're in it or not. You're never, ever going to convince me that way. Do something more useful that I can actually read you off, or i will skip over your posts and keep you in the PoE for lack of a reason to reevaluate you. It's irritating as hell.
What precisely do you expect me to fucking do against it

You can't change your vote and I don't waste my breath trying to convince people they are wrong anymore

You're wasting your breath telling me over and over again that you're in your town meta, though. Like seriously, if you think I'm being opportunistic or fence sitting and that I'm scummy, just say so. You just keep saying I'm reading you wrong, meaning you think I'm actually producing a read on you (which I'm barely doing, as I said, nullreads default to PoE). So either you think I'm town who needs to solve you and you need to give me meaningful reasons to townread you, or you think I'm scum being lazy and throwing you into the poe in which case you don't need to convince me you're town.

I don't get it at all. What do you want me to say? I'm not going to cave in and townread you when all you're doing is repeating yourself like a broken record. I would be much more open to listening to your reasoning on Brad than I am to listening to you town case yourself on meta. I know I already voted Brad and my vote is locked, and I know you were against it, but I don't feel like you made a strong enough towncase on him to change my mind.

And besides, part of the reason I voted him was to see how you'd react. It wasn't even primarily to vote Brad out today. I thought you'd more vocally protest or try to keep other votes off him, but it just feels like you're calling the wagon dumb and going "see I told you" but without enough conviction. Which is not convincing me that you're sure enough of your read on him to defend him. It just feels like you're saying, "voting Brad is bad, oh well."

I know I need to take a step back and chill, but I came back again to try again to explain exactly why this isn't working for me. I don't understand what your game plan is, and if I don't understand you, I can't read you.

Oh, but ping me if Brad shows up and actually does things.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:05 pm Who has said nothing today, and why?

Marmot, no idea why. Thought he'd have Internet by now.

Anyway, I'm out of this thread again, maybe I won't even come back during the night because I don't actually care right now. I'm annoyed and I don't have anything new to add, so I might as well just shut up and not say anything.

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