The Syndicate

My penalty is I only get 69 posts so I must stop now. But yeah I don't really trust Schia right now.

If I'm not wrong on how Empowerer works it seems like you should be at least ensuring you're using it on someone who is using their action, no?

Schiavetto wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:22 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:21 pm Yeah saying you trust Ruri with your life is not coordinating an empower with them, especially when they'd been claiming to hold their doctor shots for the past days. Like by coordinate I meant ensuring they actually used it..
I tried to ping. Didn't go through. New site, shit sucks, oh well.

I'm not talking about the ping though. How does saying you trust someone with your life tell them they should be using their doctor?

Yeah saying you trust Ruri with your life is not coordinating an empower with them, especially when they'd been claiming to hold their doctor shots for the past days. Like by coordinate I meant ensuring they actually used it..

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:16 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:09 pm Though unless the team is exactly Ruri/Falcon as mentioned, 1 in Pyxxy/Porscha is likely.

Falcon has a lot of disassociates

Idk wtf Pyxxy was doing end of day with the switch to Anne

Why are people terrified of ties there?
We've played a few "ties result in no elimination" games lately

Yeah that Happened in my last game. Though it didn't really matter because the mafias kills didn't hit after.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:13 pm Wait, how many claimed PRs are still alive & kickin'? Cuz I'd be shocked if y'all are telling the truth

NANOOK: JOAT - Voyeur, tracker, motion detector
Creature: Mason (Proven) and tracker
Ruri: Doctor, 2 shot
Schiavetto: Empowerer, 1 shot

There's also dead in town
Mac: Vanilla cop, 1 shot
Cape: 2 shot commuter
Seanzie: Mason bodyguard

Could be missing some

Schiavetto wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:12 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:12 pm @Schiavetto so you're one shot Empowerer and decided to use your shot tonight... why? Why not @ Ruri and coordinate to make sure?
I did, in my 9th post

I'm not finding, can you quote it?

@Schiavetto so you're one shot Empowerer and decided to use your shot tonight... why? Why not @ Ruri and coordinate to make sure?

Also I'm not outruling Wilgy tbh but I want to resolve the PR shit because of NOOK/Ruri/Schia are all real And town I will join Mac in his disgusting eating habit

Though unless the team is exactly Ruri/Falcon as mentioned, 1 in Pyxxy/Porscha is likely.

Falcon has a lot of disassociates

Idk wtf Pyxxy was doing end of day with the switch to Anne

Why are people terrified of ties there?

Meh my first thought is Pyxxy/NANOOK/Porcha/Wilgy probably does have 1 because there's no way that wagon is fucking pure but if NANOOK is town mafia may not care as much and he seems towny so far today.

Maybe Schia/Porscha mafia works because Porscha kept "imagine having Schia as a top townread at that point wtf" to me without actually pushing Schia and they don't have any great interactions with dead mafia or each other

Idk man I kind of see it as Ruri/Falcon or Schia/Porcha

Maybe it makes more sense to kill Schia there.

NANOOK's JOAT claim also strikes me as a bit off considering this is supposed to be a limited power game but it's somewhat confirmed and he seems towny today..

Oh Would Empowerer be a counter to Strongarm?

Would commuter?

This is what I'm trying to figure out too

I feel somewhat less shitty that my reads on Seanzie Creature and Anne were all correct. I guess I should stick to my guns on Wilgy but I think for Wilgy to be town then major misclearing exist which yeah wouldn't be surprised if it's Ruri. I would still put him on the lower end of my reads because of what Anne said.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:32 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:16 pm I want to sheep Anne and just go Wilgy/Falcon then.. but Schia and Ruri being both real gets increasingly unlikely at this point when Seanzie said to go on him yesterday

Would Cape's commuter be a counter to Strongarm?
Did Schiavetto claim anything?

He just claimed Empowerer on Ruri, Empowerer also presumably being a Strongarm counter (along with commuter?)

Tbh commuter, cape's role, could be the only Strongarm counter. The last game I played was very mech heavy so I have somewhat of an idea how this would work and I think NANOOK is right that one in Ruri/Schia is very likely.

NANOOK seems towny now.

I sort of had bad vibes from the way Jack interacted with Ruri when he was like half coaching her in a way publicly to claim 2 shots, but I kinda shook it off and now I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't have.

But Anne's end of day was insanely towny and I don't get how people don't see that, I think Falcons EOD was also scummy as fuck if NANOOK is town and if he's with Ruri then I'm sure Ruri would lead kill.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:56 pm Ok I'm frustrated and probably allowing someone else to take over.

Anyway I'm Seanzie's mason partner. My track results were:

N2: Lilypetal - nobody
N4: falcon45ca- nobody

Which sucks because I can't discount the existence of mafia goon who just abstained.

Anyway, I think Ruri should be pretty much town for being uncounterclaimed protective besides Seanzie considering the existence of a mafia strongman.

I think the result still looks good for falcon45ca and someone mentioned he was spewed so I'm prob not looking at him today.

I also find obscurity genuinely townie all game, especially when he broke postcap to argue against the anne lynch. My biggest question regarding him is why he voted anne at some point.

That leaves Neon, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, DrWilgy, Porscha, pyxxy, Schiavetto and we need a POE of four to win.

Paranoia. And not understanding the Lucy kill when I townread Wilgy. Could that mean a team like Ruri/Falcon is just making weird kills?

I don't see the point of keeping Ruri alive then if there's almost always one in Ruri/Falcon because Creature already used both of his tracks and if he dies we get another track

I want to sheep Anne and just go Wilgy/Falcon then.. but Schia and Ruri being both real gets increasingly unlikely at this point when Seanzie said to go on him yesterday

Would Cape's commuter be a counter to Strongarm?

Don't kill Anne please, she's town.

I know this is over my cap, I will except the 1x first punishment.

i think i want to weed out schia/falcon

if there's 0 scum there then we're dealing with a more difficult gamestate, but i still feel pretty strongly on Wilgy V (and unlike the Jack stuff, i am making my stance clear that this is a defense - i don't want him to be flipped, though i'm not going to scream about it.. i don't have the posts to). if he is a wolf i accept i kinda need to die tomorrow but in that case the game is probably solved anyway with only 1 left.

i am capped, will watch the votes though

Schiavetto wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:02 pm Page 1.
-Anne response to King!Cape suggestion feels cozy; not sure how I feel abt DrWilgy's being caught off-guard by it
-Greetings is like the most boring opener ever
-Hi Nanook

P2.
-Scotty on Sabi in #53, immediate reaction is "it's not that serious" but idk. Points for zeal?
-Neon & Porscha's tea party looks fun, wish I was invited
-Alison train is no longer funny as of Seanzie's vote
-78 like, makes sense.
-obscurity entrance w/ resignation from the get-go is a turnoff.
-Anne on Neon is chill
-86 from lucy feels self-conscious

P3.
-Oh cool Scotty is voting obscurity, go off king
-#111 Scattershot questions are Something, wonder what you do with them. Liked the rank request more than the questions.
-#116 trying to decide if I actually have an issue with this post's content or if it's just that the language feels overly wrought. Maybe bugs me that there's no apparent investment in what the playstyle actually is & if it's translating, just that it was mentioned? kinda limp.
-#120 hm.
-#122 hm!
-Seanzie is cool, I've decided.

P4.
-Happy to see Jack but admittedly a bit worried - I've heard he's unyeetable. What if he's a wolf, and the time comes for us to yeet him? We'd be SOL.
-oh hey it's lucy.
-175 i have a lot of cop stories but none of them are very happy, soz. fuck 12
-176 is pretty cool though, fuck 12
-183 call that a cold case, also fuck 12
-189 yeah more along these lines. fuck 12.
-Wilgy using some other player to read obsc feels skeezy.

P5.
-I think I dislike Wilgy's behavior around obscurity's no-outing-TRs-yet thing more than I dislike the thing itself
-what is mac doing

P6.
-254 from Sabi weird compared to their earlier stuff re: playstyle
-it's time for me to say it. i don't think genitals are funny. i know this makes me weird. i don't like fart jokes either. point and laugh, idc, i'm speaking my truth.
-Lilypetal vote from Cape is cool

P7.
-Feel like about here is where that weird energy I was getting from Scotty/Sabi when I came in started
-and just like then i'm kind of over it
-I have another take. American Dragon was like, just okay. Just okay.
-obsc on creature is Meh.

P8.
-This page is somehow more boring than page 5
-Scotty on Neon is blegh.

P9.
-Oh hey it's me.

Schiavetto wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:39 pm
anne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:36 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:35 pm
anne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:31 pm ill vote jack over creature, but waiting to see if anyone else shows up
I'm paranoid of you because you keep surviving + you keep having bad solves (like Lilypetal). If you're town I hope you change that (at least the second part).
"Bad solves" I scumread one person wrongly lmao
Fwiw this is a bit of what gives me pause with Jack - like i'm not over the moon about him here but everytime I see something along the lines of "He was wrong about Lily" i'm just like

!_!

The blue is a little weird.
The second is sort of a defense of Jack, but everything else is Schia pretty much being like "I'm fine with Jack flipping," /shrug.

Overall, wouldn't outrule Schia/Jack stuff as teamed. Schia's EOD vote record is also all town except for the day Sabi got yeeted which hardly counts.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:39 pm also imagine having schia as a top town read in that scenario lol

i am a chaotic mess when i'm trying to solve something difficult for me to figure out ;~; but i've been messy AF in a way that would be completely unnecessary as wolf. like, my wolf game is me essentially picking set targets and pushing them with a motive in mind - it's much more neat/organized and goal-oriented. the fact that i've pushed pretty much every player here at some point and changed my reads a billion times is why i'm town, simply because i don't view that approach as necessary as wolf.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:42 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:39 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:32 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:33 pm how long are you going to use that stale argument before you're just a wolf, Creature?

tbh.

also yeah Falcon could be mafia.

my top townreads are now Wilgy/Schiavetto/Anne/Jack.

B)

obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:54 pm and yeah my thought on jack is he will flip town but i don't oppose his flip if only to advance the game at this point.
It was you I was thinking of. You weren't pushing for Creature like Wilgy was, but I remember this post now. You're all like "Creature might be wolf" then Lucy voted Jack and you were like "uhh... maybe not". As if you WANTED WANTED WANTED to push Creature but you were more worried about your thread positioning than you should be.

And yeah, you definitely tried to save Jack.

Bad.

Obscurity has high deepwolf potential. Not worth going for today, but they should not be given a pass moving forward.
it was an ephemeral thought i had but legit 10 minutes later i was like "creature still town, NVM" which was hours before EOD; + where did i try to save jack? pretty strongly was okay with him flipping all day.

i don't think it's unreasonable to assume i could be a deepwolf though, so fair enough. i'd like to think for the amount of effort i've put into this game i could've pretty easily saved jack if we were partners (or otherwise taken a strong stance against him and been ubercleared) rather than a lameass "welp he'll prob flip town but let's flip him" but i don't think it's unreasonable to tinfoil.
Continually saying that you think Jack is town is trying to save Jack, regardless of how many times you also say something like "but I'm okay with him flipping".

if i was trying to save jack i'd be pushing another wagon option/approaching it very differently.. but eh, i mean i guess i can see your POV, i just felt comfortable with him flipping and making that clear to me was not trying to save him. the whole "he will probably flip town but" was half me just selfishly wanting the cred, though, so i can see where you'd interpret it that way, especially when we are seeing things with Wilgy differently too. i am still stuck on FMPOV i think mafia would take a better stance against Jack (and/or be less.. obvious? about it) in a game where they have to survive so many MLs.. i'm not sure how it's going with KP but if it's the same as its been thus far then yeah numbers quite townsided, and mafia's path to victory is pretty narrow, knock on wood.

@Porscha I made a list in my last post, but I've finished some more detailed notes. I only have 2 posts left so I'm being sparing.

► Show Spoiler

So,

Town-->Scum
Seanzie
Neon

Ruri
Creature

Porscha
Anne
Pyxxy

Wilgy
Schiavetto
NANOOK
Falcon

So I guess the only way this changed from my previous list is Neon slightly higher, but pretty much the same, and I suppose there may be more "logical" reasons for Wilgy mafia than I thought. But yeah the Schia read was dumb and impulsive.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:32 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:33 pm how long are you going to use that stale argument before you're just a wolf, Creature?

tbh.

also yeah Falcon could be mafia.

my top townreads are now Wilgy/Schiavetto/Anne/Jack.

B)

obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:54 pm and yeah my thought on jack is he will flip town but i don't oppose his flip if only to advance the game at this point.
It was you I was thinking of. You weren't pushing for Creature like Wilgy was, but I remember this post now. You're all like "Creature might be wolf" then Lucy voted Jack and you were like "uhh... maybe not". As if you WANTED WANTED WANTED to push Creature but you were more worried about your thread positioning than you should be.

And yeah, you definitely tried to save Jack.

Bad.

Obscurity has high deepwolf potential. Not worth going for today, but they should not be given a pass moving forward.

it was an ephemeral thought i had but legit 10 minutes later i was like "creature still town, NVM" which was hours before EOD; + where did i try to save jack? pretty strongly was okay with him flipping all day.

i don't think it's unreasonable to assume i could be a deepwolf though, so fair enough. i'd like to think for the amount of effort i've put into this game i could've pretty easily saved jack if we were partners (or otherwise taken a strong stance against him and been ubercleared) rather than a lameass "welp he'll prob flip town but let's flip him" but i don't think it's unreasonable to tinfoil.

do the people who think Wilgy is mafia have experience with Wilgy + consider this in his range?

Just reached Pyxxy EOD Jack got eliminated and I think it is decent/feel sort of mindmeldy on both of us being like "yeah Jack may be town but we need him flipped" so admittedly paranoia slightly better by then.

My issue is I townread Wilgy fairly strongly, but there aren't any scumreads I feel amazing about.

@pyxxy Thank you

Meanwhile can I get a clearer view of your reads this game? An ordered reads' list, if possible? Your ISO jumps around a lot. You had Falcon scum but last post you seem to think Sabi spewed him town. I just would like a better idea of where your head is at, because you do scare me a little.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:53 pm Town vibes:

Scotty (he's pushing on people and making too much of a show. I looked at his old games and he's not like behaving abnormally different from his town games (https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?t=2201, https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?t=2203) but also old games)

Wikgz (feels like his usual weird self, he's doing his weird sheeping thing)

Bad vibes:

Mac: his vibes are off and he's not making much sense.

Cape: really not a fan of his opening at all

Everyone else:

Null

Oh Sabi spew also pointed to Wilgy V; mainly because I feel like a wolf would cough up a better reason on Wilgy at this point than "feels like usual self:

Thank you @pyxxy , if you have a town game I'd like to look at it too because I'm worried I need to regard you more closely.

I think Jack/Wilgy interactions end of yesterday are unpaired.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:23 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:20 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:08 pm Wilgy, who else do you think is scum besides Falcon? Because I don't think Falcon is the way to go, today. Wolf Falcon would have just voted me by now.
1 wolf in Creature/Obscurity/Porscha maybe Anne/Neon if I'm starting to reassess the clears I gave them.

Schiavetto's slot can be a wolf.

Nook can be a wolf.

This gamestate doesn't point to you being wolf. Lucy/Seanzie I would need to be really hard pressed into revoking the Sabi clear. I don't see pyxxy's posts having a scum angle too. Hard to detour me from that one at this point.
I guess Creature and Neon were the players I was planning on reading anyway.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:24 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:21 pm And that is if not Falcon. If Falcon the game gets much easier.

Engagement reading Falcon hasn't been wrong so far this year.
Let's say I'm wrong and Falcon is a wolf. Who is Falcon's partner in that much easier world?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:28 pm Falcon's iso isn't that great, actually. I still believe wolf Falcon would just be voting for me but I think my heart wants Falcon to be town more than my head thinks he is. Wilgy's not wrong. Just....bleh. I wanna give that slot another day. It's not impossible I'm giving the entire wolfteam another day.

It feels like he's leaning on Wilgy a lot. I'm not sure what this says about Falcon though.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:04 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:25 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:22 pm Eh I still think Anne is okay, the stuff surrounding Sabi/Mac/Anne look unpaired between Sabi/Anne and the claim call out adds to that. The kills mafia are making are a little weird if she's town, but that's secondary as it's possible there is intent behind kills to make people confused.
oh also irt kills

possible a role cop exists, possible they're looking for masons

right now we're at 10 V 2 with 2 mechanical clears and one who has tracks so if mafia don't find masons soon they may just get mech locked especially if we get down to 1.
nook was a single shot tracker so idk about wolves getting mech locked soon tbh

IDK if i buy his claim though when we have masons who have 3 shots of investigative and mac who was an investigative.

mech locked is because of the mason tracks, which would clear people or condemn them if one mafia left.

---

as a side note, I am getting slight paranoia over Creature just based on some stuff I'm seeing in Jack ISO + him falling off a bit today, but ultimately it makes no sense to pair him with Jack for him to bus that hard so it's probably dumb.

I think I'm going to go back to Falcon vote as I think the Jack/NANOOK stuff is slightly more unpaired, and I found Ducktakes (maf game of Falcon), don't think he's very different. Anne brought up a decent point about Jack not really needing to defend v!Falcon here.

I'm sure my ultimate stance on Wilgy is going to be the same as Jack with a "I think he's probably town but you guys have been better than me so feel free to flip him," I do feel a bit stronger about him than I did on Jack. I only managed to find one wolf game of his to read though and he was basically obvious?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:53 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:47 pm @Jackofhearts2005 respectfully do you have terrible read accuracy and why did you TR Wigly/anne/obscurity?
Really depends on the game. Sometimes, I pick outmost of the wolfteam on day 1. Sometimes, I get pocketed hard.

Obscurity is just obviously town. Come on. He's trying to solve. He's trying not to tunnel. His reads make sense. Strongest townread, easily.

I think Anne looked good D1. Her interactions with Sabi don't look particularly teamed. She's kinda fallen off as the game went on and like...she's still alive but that's just tinfoil.

Wilgy tends to coast more as a wolf. He's interrogating people, here. I don't agree with some of his reads but I believe they're real reads.

Where you going with this?

I'm mulling over this a bit - I thought it sounded vaguely unpaired between Jack/Wilgy and more like TMI (I sorta felt Sabi read on Wilgy was TMI too) but eh.

Wilgy/Falcon and Wilgy/NANOOK are vaguely unpaired imo.

obscurity wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:22 pm Eh I still think Anne is okay, the stuff surrounding Sabi/Mac/Anne look unpaired between Sabi/Anne and the claim call out adds to that. The kills mafia are making are a little weird if she's town, but that's secondary as it's possible there is intent behind kills to make people confused.

oh also irt kills

possible a role cop exists, possible they're looking for masons

right now we're at 10 V 2 with 2 mechanical clears and one who has tracks so if mafia don't find masons soon they may just get mech locked especially if we get down to 1.

anne wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:15 pm wilgy's recent posts were kinda meh so he can die, neon prolly closer to townie than not atp

elaborate?

Eh I still think Anne is okay, the stuff surrounding Sabi/Mac/Anne look unpaired between Sabi/Anne and the claim call out adds to that. The kills mafia are making are a little weird if she's town, but that's secondary as it's possible there is intent behind kills to make people confused.

I'm going to ISO Anne again in case I'm being silly there, because the kills admittedly point to one in Anne/Wigly, Anne more-so.

Lock Town; Creature - Seanzie - Ruri
Probably Town; Anne - Neon
I Think Town, though A Bit Uneasy; Pyxxy - Porscha

POE: [Nanook, Wilgy*, Schia, Falcon]

*I lean on Wilgy as town but it could be something I'm blind to that others know better on.

reviewed NANOOK iso, sort of toying with the idea that he could be mafia because the best stuff in his favor is like "why would he do X as mafia," but beyond that there's some "?" stuff.

i am suspicious in general of everything that's been claimed/that has surrounded his claims.. and i don't know, i'm getting this laid-back/light-hearted vibe but it's not really mixed in with someone who wants to solve the game

people with more detailed meta can weigh in too.

@Schiavetto any thoughts on NANOOK's push on you?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:58 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:18 pm I have a...its not really a difference check, idk what to call it, anyways I have mech info that there's at least one mafia between ruri/schia/falcon, I think its probably ruri
So....a red on Ruri/Schia.

Wish Ruri would show up to fullclaim but that was always a long shot.

Still wanna yeet Lily. One time, Sloonei had a red check on 5 players and we burned through them and they were all town and iirc, so was Sloonei. It was...not ideal.

this is kind of a weird reaction. like, if jack is with falcon, i don't think he immediately ignores the falcon part of the claim if he has TMI there, idk?

Schiavetto wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:57 am There's one in Wilgy or pyxxy, leaning Wilgy for creature-y reasons. But it's definitely not omgus.

why do you think one in these two specifically? also does anyone have a link to the great Pyxxy wolf game that's been mentioned a couple times?

also if Neon's best wolf game was the one she linked on Mafiauniverse, she's probably town here.. she barely posted in comparison and seems completely different. i couldn't figure out how to ISO on the other site though.

This is hard because I sort of think Neon and Wilgy are both town now. And yeah I'm scared Falcon could just be l*nch bait.

I'll do donr deep dives and try to figure things out later

Every time I think it's a good idea to clear NOOK I start to regret it

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:08 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:52 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:19 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:43 pm How the fuck is my approach to you wolfy? I'm literally trying to solve you but you're making it impossible to work with you. I'm asking you why you think you should be obvious town and you're just OMGUSing like you did with Anne day one. Like if your approach to mafia as town is to push back at everyone suspicious of you then your play fucking sucks. I literally took notes and discussed all of my reads which have constantly changing based on new information. You had no approach to Jack whatsoever except to call him town early based on a on the Lily wagon so you're one to talk in terms of having a hedgy stance on Jack. There's no way in hell my approach as wolf would be to say that I thought Jack should be flipped but I townread him, that would be idiotic. You're acting like you're the lead wagon right into end of day, but im not going to fucking find you if you're town and your approach is this bullshit.
Your approach is wolfy because you're using non existent reasons to push me. Your pushing me off a meme and for not being around and I have yet to see a single valid reason from anyone on my wagon. And lo and behold when a wagon forms on me for no reason its almost always wolf driven. It happens every game I play I am very very used to it and I am very very used to its motivation and it very rarely comes from town and you are pulling the same thing that woofs always do on me. So no its not omgus, blaming a valid counter push on lol omgus is such a buzz word response when someone can legitimately just find your push on them scummy but run the buzz word roulette on me. But hey telling me I suck for how I play is a good way to get the "omgus" off you since that's how you want to play it. This response is never towny.

I never read Jack and the fact you push me for a meme and insist it was a legitimate read is so unbelievably weak.
See this is what I mean though. I very clearly outlined my reasons beyond the meme. And you're acting like I'm trying to push a ML on you when that's not what I want, like I don't want you to be wagoned if you're a villager, I've very clearly shown that I change my reads and adapt a lot but your first instinct is to just assume the worst. You're also acting like my only reason to scumread you is the Jack read and ignoring everything else I've talked about. I accept that your read on Jack was partially a meme or whatever, but that wasn't the crux of my initial issue. And how was I supposed to know that the meme had zero foundation in reality regardless? There was a wagon of literally 2 votes on you when you came at me.

You also try to pull arguments like "it happens every game" and make it into this big blanket thing rather than actually try to look for the motivation/reason behind it or try to engage with it - like, from my perspective, you're also wrongly pushing on a villager and I also get zero impression that you're actually interested in solving me. but despite how yes, I think it's very poor play, I don't necessarily think it's wolf indicative because you're just digging a grave for yourself if I flip. I tend to think this over-reaction comes from town.

Maybe AtE wasn't the right word, or it wasn't intentional, but being told I've been wolfsiding if I'm a villager touched that part of me.
Your other reasons as far as I'm aware are

How other people have treated me which is like not something I can defend

And irl. Which reading into thread absence is frustrating.

What else is there? I've been as town as I ever am. This is Neon take it or leave it. I think that just because you don't know anyone here doesn't mean you should ignore what they know. Ask the people who've played with me how they feel about me. I'm not gonna say read the dead you are well aware of how Mac felt so ask the living they can take into account what Mac's corpse can't. Pyxxy, Porscha they have enough knowledge of my game I'd say. Because frankly everyone plays mafia different and looking at me without meta knowledge of my play is a most dangerous game. I'm town but you will never believe that I'm not going to self meta I can only do what I always do.

You know why I say it happens every game? Because it does... well every time I play with people who haven't played with me anyways. And the push on me always contains a woof. Like look at who's been on my wagon and than let's play a game. Do you think the people who've voted me are all town? Because we have you leading my wagon and than we have Ruri openly sheeping you and than we had Falcon who frankly...I have no idea her levy though. I don't think my wagon is pure. And that's the thing... my wagons are never pure. I'm an easy push as town obscurity and it's not because I'm a bad player and it's not because I play mafia like garbage it's because I don't play mafia the way mafia players expect town to play. Like...if I just didn't second guess every decision I made in mafia I'd win a lot of games I figure things out I get info playing the way I play. It works no matter how many people tell me I play like shit. And mafia is a numbers game and the numbers say people who push me on the basis of nothing are mafia way more often than not.

I'm attacking your game play not you I dunno if I'm being a dick that's not intentional sometimes I'm bad at that...autism or whatever... but I'm trying to play mafia and I think your game play right now is just not good.

I'm clearing a lot of people off of the stuff with Jack, which frankly means that my POE is narrow. So sometimes thin reasons just become reasons to me, which I do understand may come off in bad faith to you but that's why I'm emphasizing that I'm exploring reads, trying to find scum, I'm not tunneling. I'm also better at finding town than scum as a whole and I realized that I must be misclearing people. As mafia I have no reason to completely 180 my read on you though in that situation, especially when there's 2 mafia left and I would need to survive a lot of MLs.

That's all very well, I'm not trying to ignore meta on you. That's the type of stuff I was looking for because it's my missing piece of the game. Like I just looked at your past game and Sabi won against you as mafia. So you had that background stuff day 1 to find her as mafia. Me, I had none of that. The only meta I was accounting for on you was Mac, who was dead n2, so I wouldn't know if his read would change at this point, but I didn't know those people played with you before, and I do take that into consideration/value.

I don't really understand what's wrong with my gameplay right now. Like, I'm trying to find mafia in a site I'm new to and people I'm new to. I didn't even understand the votes were posted until earlier. Sometimes this involves pushing on people who are town. If I was just pushing and never reflecting or re-considering then that'd be bad, but I'm doing all that stuff. I townread Jack day 2 then realized when I lived to day 3 that meant I was wrong about stuff so said kill should be in Jack/NOOK. But yeah I think viewing something as "my wagon has to have a mafia," especially when it's such a small wagon, is not correct. I mean sometimes by mere mathematics this is the case, but villagers push on villagers all the time. I've probably pushed on every single person here, nearly, at some point, and then often just changed my mind. That's why being mafia is easy sometimes, you can work around people who OMGUS and not push them and have a more static set of reads because you don't need to try to solve anyone. So like, I'm town, Ruri is probably mech town - Falcon could be mafia who voted you, but
not specifically because he voted you - because his vote on you didn't really make sense/I'm not sure where it came from. My reasons for suspecting you may not necessarily have been strong but they at least made sense and I think it's clear I believed them even if I now think I was probably wrong.

Because believe it or not I do listen to you when you say that more people than just Mac have the meta and take that into account and I don't even think you're mafia anymore. I just wanted you to understand that in a world where;
1. A lot of people look good off of Jack
2. I realize that some of my strong townreads have to be wrong
3. I am put off by your immediate reaction, even if I'm reflecting on that
4. You're literally saying that people who don't know you don't understand your style
I don't know why you find it so surprising that I may suspect you here.

Anyway, I'll see what content we get from Wilgy today, this game has taken too much out of me tn and I'm going to sleep.

Neon do you have a scum game on another site you can link (or here, but I didn't think I saw one)?

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:19 pm
obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:43 pm How the fuck is my approach to you wolfy? I'm literally trying to solve you but you're making it impossible to work with you. I'm asking you why you think you should be obvious town and you're just OMGUSing like you did with Anne day one. Like if your approach to mafia as town is to push back at everyone suspicious of you then your play fucking sucks. I literally took notes and discussed all of my reads which have constantly changing based on new information. You had no approach to Jack whatsoever except to call him town early based on a on the Lily wagon so you're one to talk in terms of having a hedgy stance on Jack. There's no way in hell my approach as wolf would be to say that I thought Jack should be flipped but I townread him, that would be idiotic. You're acting like you're the lead wagon right into end of day, but im not going to fucking find you if you're town and your approach is this bullshit.
Your approach is wolfy because you're using non existent reasons to push me. Your pushing me off a meme and for not being around and I have yet to see a single valid reason from anyone on my wagon. And lo and behold when a wagon forms on me for no reason its almost always wolf driven. It happens every game I play I am very very used to it and I am very very used to its motivation and it very rarely comes from town and you are pulling the same thing that woofs always do on me. So no its not omgus, blaming a valid counter push on lol omgus is such a buzz word response when someone can legitimately just find your push on them scummy but run the buzz word roulette on me. But hey telling me I suck for how I play is a good way to get the "omgus" off you since that's how you want to play it. This response is never towny.

I never read Jack and the fact you push me for a meme and insist it was a legitimate read is so unbelievably weak.

See this is what I mean though. I very clearly outlined my reasons beyond the meme. And you're acting like I'm trying to push a ML on you when that's not what I want, like I don't want you to be wagoned if you're a villager, I've very clearly shown that I change my reads and adapt a lot but your first instinct is to just assume the worst. You're also acting like my only reason to scumread you is the Jack read and ignoring everything else I've talked about. I accept that your read on Jack was partially a meme or whatever, but that wasn't the crux of my initial issue. And how was I supposed to know that the meme had zero foundation in reality regardless? There was a wagon of literally 2 votes on you when you came at me.

You also try to pull arguments like "it happens every game" and make it into this big blanket thing rather than actually try to look for the motivation/reason behind it or try to engage with it - like, from my perspective, you're also wrongly pushing on a villager and I also get zero impression that you're actually interested in solving me. but despite how yes, I think it's very poor play, I don't necessarily think it's wolf indicative because you're just digging a grave for yourself if I flip. I tend to think this over-reaction comes from town.

Maybe AtE wasn't the right word, or it wasn't intentional, but being told I've been wolfsiding if I'm a villager touched that part of me.

I am getting deja vu of Jack yesterday with Wilgy today so maybe that is a hit. If so then It's probably Wilgy/Falcon or something and easy game.

It's fine. But like stuff like Mac saying "Sabi is mafia because this is not town Sabi" and people pushing Jack for not being the same as a past town game is obviously not going to register with me the same way, but I'm trying to gather logic and reasons and put stuff together. Jack dying made sense for the game so I wanted it even if I thought he was town. I thought I had solid stuff against Lily, I nearly changed my mind at one point after interacting with her and my switch caused Jack to AtE me in a way that made me waver back. I correctly had Cape as town day 1. And even if I'm wrong on Neon I'm not dead set on it like I had them as top town yesterday and tried to talk to them then they completely disappeared and I've been re-evaluating my reads every day and came to that conclusion today so even if it's a wrong conclusion I'm not someone who can't have their mind changed... all I ask is the same courtesy from other people.

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