The Syndicate

Also I'm in a game for the first time on a new site where literally everyone knows each other so obviously I'm going to have a disadvantage.

Anyway I may end up sheeping Seanzie on Wilgy after yesterday. But I don't appreciate being told I'm playing anti-town by someone who did nothing to push Jack and was absent when I was part of ensuring he was flipped despite a Jack trying to AtE me hard. I also don't appreciate now being AtE'd by 3 people just for voting them.

How the fuck is my approach to you wolfy? I'm literally trying to solve you but you're making it impossible to work with you. I'm asking you why you think you should be obvious town and you're just OMGUSing like you did with Anne day one. Like if your approach to mafia as town is to push back at everyone suspicious of you then your play fucking sucks. I literally took notes and discussed all of my reads which have constantly changing based on new information. You had no approach to Jack whatsoever except to call him town early based on a on the Lily wagon so you're one to talk in terms of having a hedgy stance on Jack. There's no way in hell my approach as wolf would be to say that I thought Jack should be flipped but I townread him, that would be idiotic. You're acting like you're the lead wagon right into end of day, but im not going to fucking find you if you're town and your approach is this bullshit.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:11 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:59 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:51 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:51 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:43 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:36 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:28 pm

I literally TRd Jack because and I quote "I like the Miz."

If you actually believe that I seriously town read Jack I have a bridge to sell you in London.

Like seriously go reach somewhere else. Wolf Neon is more capable than TRing a team mate because of a wrestling gimmick and now capable of distancing than... any of this. And town Neon does stupid shit like TR people early based on things like how much I like their avatars or how they respond to whatever stupid question I make up that day. Sometimes I even carry that read forever lol.

Who do you think is mafia?

Like, I don't know what "wolf!Neon" is capable of. I will say that I don't want to ignore Mac's dead on you and I'm not locked on your being mafia.I think the read on Jack could reasonably come from v!you, but I was weighing it in addition to a couple other things (a lot of people looking really good in relation to Jack, you falling off a bit, Jack/Sabi's respective treatments of you having some pingy moments). I felt like the Jack thing was pressed enough to seem like a real thing that came out of a meme, but the read was more of an overall thing. I'd rather not waste time with people defending themselves though, because when this happened in the past with Jack + Lucy it just came off as an attack at me, and I'm just trying to figure out the mafia. It's not helpful when a lot of people's pushes have seemed meta founded and I haven't been able to follow.

Asking me who the mafia is will rarely return the results you want. Unless i see something that pings me hard I have nothing to say.

I probably don't have something to say if I don't say it. Right now I'm looking at you and wilgy. I think Jack was at points savable yesterday and I think that woofs are in a bad position with Jack dying on this situation so I think at the very least 1 woofer would go all in on trying to save Jack.

In my experience people who treat my slot the way you are generally are woofs. I do not think your approach to me is fair or valid. I wonder because you are loud and leading town but you've been loud and leading town away from woofs and knowing that I'm town your leading them into town.

I was definitely not trying to save Jack though. The Creature wagon that popped up I believe was Wilgy/Falcon/+1, not sure the +1 or +2 actually? But that would've been the main attempt to save Jack.

I mean, I also would've played it very differently as mafia, and actually taken a strong stance against Jack to look good there, either bussed hard or tried to save him, rather than a limp fish "well Jack will prob flip town but he needs to die" type thing.

And like.. I think it was pretty obvious that Jack was trying to specifically appeal to me/pocket me. When I tried to switch onto him/started to come around on Lily being V D2, he basically pinged me and said he thought I was better than that.

And idk, I came into today thinking you were mafia but I'm not sure anymore. Can you elaborate on why you don't think it's fair? Like, the Jack flip basically turned my entire POE around, and the having been "loud and wrong" part is why I'm considering you in the first place, because I'm one of the people who had been loudly calling you town, and I'm struggling because I realize I've been wrong on my main reads this game. That said I don't think anything wrong I've done has majorly impeded things as I did accept Jack needed to die.

Hedgy hedging is rarely a town trait

This feels needlessly dismissive and doesn't even answer my question.

There is literally no question here. And you are scum.

Yes there is. I asked you why you don't think it's fair. And I'm trying to find you if we're both town so I can solve this game but if you're going to act like this I will push on you and have zero regrets if you flip town.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:51 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:51 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:43 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:36 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:28 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:12 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:38 pm Alright

Reads

Because you want those

Mac town
Creature town
Jack lock town

Sabi is scum yall blind

So Neon is claiming the Jack read was a meme but seemed to carry it to the point where it made their list.

I literally TRd Jack because and I quote "I like the Miz."

If you actually believe that I seriously town read Jack I have a bridge to sell you in London.

Like seriously go reach somewhere else. Wolf Neon is more capable than TRing a team mate because of a wrestling gimmick and now capable of distancing than... any of this. And town Neon does stupid shit like TR people early based on things like how much I like their avatars or how they respond to whatever stupid question I make up that day. Sometimes I even carry that read forever lol.

Who do you think is mafia?

Like, I don't know what "wolf!Neon" is capable of. I will say that I don't want to ignore Mac's dead on you and I'm not locked on your being mafia.I think the read on Jack could reasonably come from v!you, but I was weighing it in addition to a couple other things (a lot of people looking really good in relation to Jack, you falling off a bit, Jack/Sabi's respective treatments of you having some pingy moments). I felt like the Jack thing was pressed enough to seem like a real thing that came out of a meme, but the read was more of an overall thing. I'd rather not waste time with people defending themselves though, because when this happened in the past with Jack + Lucy it just came off as an attack at me, and I'm just trying to figure out the mafia. It's not helpful when a lot of people's pushes have seemed meta founded and I haven't been able to follow.

Asking me who the mafia is will rarely return the results you want. Unless i see something that pings me hard I have nothing to say.

I probably don't have something to say if I don't say it. Right now I'm looking at you and wilgy. I think Jack was at points savable yesterday and I think that woofs are in a bad position with Jack dying on this situation so I think at the very least 1 woofer would go all in on trying to save Jack.

In my experience people who treat my slot the way you are generally are woofs. I do not think your approach to me is fair or valid. I wonder because you are loud and leading town but you've been loud and leading town away from woofs and knowing that I'm town your leading them into town.

I was definitely not trying to save Jack though. The Creature wagon that popped up I believe was Wilgy/Falcon/+1, not sure the +1 or +2 actually? But that would've been the main attempt to save Jack.

I mean, I also would've played it very differently as mafia, and actually taken a strong stance against Jack to look good there, either bussed hard or tried to save him, rather than a limp fish "well Jack will prob flip town but he needs to die" type thing.

And like.. I think it was pretty obvious that Jack was trying to specifically appeal to me/pocket me. When I tried to switch onto him/started to come around on Lily being V D2, he basically pinged me and said he thought I was better than that.

And idk, I came into today thinking you were mafia but I'm not sure anymore. Can you elaborate on why you don't think it's fair? Like, the Jack flip basically turned my entire POE around, and the having been "loud and wrong" part is why I'm considering you in the first place, because I'm one of the people who had been loudly calling you town, and I'm struggling because I realize I've been wrong on my main reads this game. That said I don't think anything wrong I've done has majorly impeded things as I did accept Jack needed to die.

Hedgy hedging is rarely a town trait

This feels needlessly dismissive and doesn't even answer my question.

That seems fine to me.

I guess if Porscha was making the kill to setup on Wilgy she'd be a little less obvious about it.

Oh I didn't realize EOD votes in OP

wow I landed on Jack EOD1, very pro

I thought NANOOK was saying he moved to a vanity wagon on Lucy? He was actually a joined on Creature that's actually weird.

anne wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:22 pm spew just means someone talking about someone in a way that infers they are a specific alignment. jack mentioned how horrible your ISO was to read like three times which to me means he probably actually tried to read it and just couldnt lol which i think is v indicative for you

That's a good point actually.

You can try to read a partner's ISO but he probably didn't need to roundabout bring attention to it.

Anne do you have the final vote from yesterday?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:49 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:43 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:39 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:09 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:07 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:54 pm

I'm having a hard time with some of your takes. Nook ended up pivoting off Jack when it mattered. How is that "without any wiggle room"?

did this happen the day Lily died?

i'm having a little trouble with the specifics in votes/remembering that when I can't pull it up and it's not posted frequently like on FoL, i'm more-so thinking Nanook was calling Jack mafia all day. it was part of why I was 98% sure that there was a mafia in NOOK/Jack, the dynamic seemed unpure.

The day Lily died, Nook stayed on Jack, and Nook also knew Jack was in no danger. The day Jack died, Nook found a reason to get off Jack's wagon at a time where it really could have gone either way.

what I remember is it was 6-3 around EOD time. I think the closest it got was 6-4. I was watching the votes at this point because I was going to vote for Jack rather than my vanity wagon if Creature was in any sort of real danger, so I didn't really see it as "could go either way" or I may have viewed it differently. i kind of feel like bussing Jack all day only to pivot that EOD in a way that didn't really impact anything would be a lame W/W strategy, though.

I don't remember the exact VC, but there was a time when it was something like

Jack (3): Seanzie, Creature, Nanook

Creature (3): Jack, Falcon, Wilgy

Possibly Jack (4) or something, within the last hour of D4. There was some support for further Jack votes in thread, but Nook got off Jack around this point, and I think shortly after Lucy got on Jack, which then lead to a few others to get on Jack. At that point, it definitely could have gone either way, Wilgy was in the thread pushing for Creature, I think maybe you were in the thread pushing for creature, and some people were saying they'd vote Jack, but weren't voting.

It was around the last 5-10 minutes of EOD (after I was post-capped) that I was following the vote, and at this point Jack had 6 (I think Anne hopped on) and it wasn't particularly close, so this is what I was weighing in - I just checked and you're correct about NOOK switching but I stand by believing it wouldn't have impacted anything at this point which is why I wasn't factoring it in.

I was not in the thread pushing for Creature though - I've had Creature as probably my most unwavering townread since early. I said a few times that I thought Jack would flip town, but I also believed that flipping Jack was the right thing to do because he needed to be resolved, so if I thought Creature was going to be in danger at any point I would've voted Jack (I was post-capped on Falcon so this is me saying take my word for it), but it is consistent with what I talked about all day and wanting the end vote to be in Jack/NANOOK.

I'll take your word on you not being the one I was thinking about vocalizing a creature scum-read at a critical time..

However I still have a hard time following your logic. Regardless of what the VC was 5 minutes before EoD, that wasn't the gamestate when Nook moved, so I don't see why you would judge Nook's movements based on a later gamestate. The 6 votes on Jack came, at least partially, from me strongly sensing that Town!Creature was going to go over, and strongly pushing the thread to vote Jack, all which happened after Nook moved.

So, knowing now the gamestate how it was when Nook moved, what do you think of them?

mm okay I see your point re: the move. I still sort of feel like it's unlikely that a wolf takes a hard stance onto a partner for most of the day only to waver later. I guess I'm viewing it as NANOOK/you/Creature all being the crux of the momentum against Jack, but I would not outrule the possibility of him being mafia and it's something I've mulled over today back and forth because I was scumreading him yesterday, but viewing him/Jack as different.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can you explain your mindset behind moving at this point?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:24 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:12 pm Vote: Jack

To be great like Mac I must channel my inner Mac

Also he probably doesn't die if he's wrong about all of his other reads so Seanzie/Jack likely has one.

@obscurity

Fucking why?

Look at my exchanges with Sabi and tell me we're paired. She was my very first suspect and I pointed out scummy thing they said that nobody else did. I'm in my town meta. Some of the votes on me are nonsense gut reads but I expect better from your slot.

This AtE specifically is a lot of why I was struggling with him in the first place.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:43 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:36 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:28 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:12 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:38 pm Alright

Reads

Because you want those

Mac town
Creature town
Jack lock town

Sabi is scum yall blind

So Neon is claiming the Jack read was a meme but seemed to carry it to the point where it made their list.

I literally TRd Jack because and I quote "I like the Miz."

If you actually believe that I seriously town read Jack I have a bridge to sell you in London.

Like seriously go reach somewhere else. Wolf Neon is more capable than TRing a team mate because of a wrestling gimmick and now capable of distancing than... any of this. And town Neon does stupid shit like TR people early based on things like how much I like their avatars or how they respond to whatever stupid question I make up that day. Sometimes I even carry that read forever lol.

Who do you think is mafia?

Like, I don't know what "wolf!Neon" is capable of. I will say that I don't want to ignore Mac's dead on you and I'm not locked on your being mafia.I think the read on Jack could reasonably come from v!you, but I was weighing it in addition to a couple other things (a lot of people looking really good in relation to Jack, you falling off a bit, Jack/Sabi's respective treatments of you having some pingy moments). I felt like the Jack thing was pressed enough to seem like a real thing that came out of a meme, but the read was more of an overall thing. I'd rather not waste time with people defending themselves though, because when this happened in the past with Jack + Lucy it just came off as an attack at me, and I'm just trying to figure out the mafia. It's not helpful when a lot of people's pushes have seemed meta founded and I haven't been able to follow.

Asking me who the mafia is will rarely return the results you want. Unless i see something that pings me hard I have nothing to say.

I probably don't have something to say if I don't say it. Right now I'm looking at you and wilgy. I think Jack was at points savable yesterday and I think that woofs are in a bad position with Jack dying on this situation so I think at the very least 1 woofer would go all in on trying to save Jack.

In my experience people who treat my slot the way you are generally are woofs. I do not think your approach to me is fair or valid. I wonder because you are loud and leading town but you've been loud and leading town away from woofs and knowing that I'm town your leading them into town.

I was definitely not trying to save Jack though. The Creature wagon that popped up I believe was Wilgy/Falcon/+1, not sure the +1 or +2 actually? But that would've been the main attempt to save Jack.

I mean, I also would've played it very differently as mafia, and actually taken a strong stance against Jack to look good there, either bussed hard or tried to save him, rather than a limp fish "well Jack will prob flip town but he needs to die" type thing.

And like.. I think it was pretty obvious that Jack was trying to specifically appeal to me/pocket me. When I tried to switch onto him/started to come around on Lily being V D2, he basically pinged me and said he thought I was better than that.

And idk, I came into today thinking you were mafia but I'm not sure anymore. Can you elaborate on why you don't think it's fair? Like, the Jack flip basically turned my entire POE around, and the having been "loud and wrong" part is why I'm considering you in the first place, because I'm one of the people who had been loudly calling you town, and I'm struggling because I realize I've been wrong on my main reads this game. That said I don't think anything wrong I've done has majorly impeded things as I did accept Jack needed to die.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:39 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:09 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:07 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:54 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:44 pm I was reading NANOOK as unpaired with Jack, mostly because he pushed Jack without any wiggle room and Jack had a lamesauce reason to clear NANOOK, but possible I'm off-base here, I don't find him very villagery outside of that. The motion detect thing is kind of weird. But I dunno.

I'm having a hard time with some of your takes. Nook ended up pivoting off Jack when it mattered. How is that "without any wiggle room"?

did this happen the day Lily died?

i'm having a little trouble with the specifics in votes/remembering that when I can't pull it up and it's not posted frequently like on FoL, i'm more-so thinking Nanook was calling Jack mafia all day. it was part of why I was 98% sure that there was a mafia in NOOK/Jack, the dynamic seemed unpure.

The day Lily died, Nook stayed on Jack, and Nook also knew Jack was in no danger. The day Jack died, Nook found a reason to get off Jack's wagon at a time where it really could have gone either way.

what I remember is it was 6-3 around EOD time. I think the closest it got was 6-4. I was watching the votes at this point because I was going to vote for Jack rather than my vanity wagon if Creature was in any sort of real danger, so I didn't really see it as "could go either way" or I may have viewed it differently. i kind of feel like bussing Jack all day only to pivot that EOD in a way that didn't really impact anything would be a lame W/W strategy, though.

I don't remember the exact VC, but there was a time when it was something like

Jack (3): Seanzie, Creature, Nanook

Creature (3): Jack, Falcon, Wilgy

Possibly Jack (4) or something, within the last hour of D4. There was some support for further Jack votes in thread, but Nook got off Jack around this point, and I think shortly after Lucy got on Jack, which then lead to a few others to get on Jack. At that point, it definitely could have gone either way, Wilgy was in the thread pushing for Creature, I think maybe you were in the thread pushing for creature, and some people were saying they'd vote Jack, but weren't voting.

It was around the last 5-10 minutes of EOD (after I was post-capped) that I was following the vote, and at this point Jack had 6 (I think Anne hopped on) and it wasn't particularly close, so this is what I was weighing in - I just checked and you're correct about NOOK switching but I stand by believing it wouldn't have impacted anything at this point which is why I wasn't factoring it in.

I was not in the thread pushing for Creature though - I've had Creature as probably my most unwavering townread since early. I said a few times that I thought Jack would flip town, but I also believed that flipping Jack was the right thing to do because he needed to be resolved, so if I thought Creature was going to be in danger at any point I would've voted Jack (I was post-capped on Falcon so this is me saying take my word for it), but it is consistent with what I talked about all day and wanting the end vote to be in Jack/NANOOK.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:28 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:12 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:38 pm Alright

Reads

Because you want those

Mac town
Creature town
Jack lock town

Sabi is scum yall blind

So Neon is claiming the Jack read was a meme but seemed to carry it to the point where it made their list.

I literally TRd Jack because and I quote "I like the Miz."

If you actually believe that I seriously town read Jack I have a bridge to sell you in London.

Like seriously go reach somewhere else. Wolf Neon is more capable than TRing a team mate because of a wrestling gimmick and now capable of distancing than... any of this. And town Neon does stupid shit like TR people early based on things like how much I like their avatars or how they respond to whatever stupid question I make up that day. Sometimes I even carry that read forever lol.

Who do you think is mafia?

Like, I don't know what "wolf!Neon" is capable of. I will say that I don't want to ignore Mac's dead on you and I'm not locked on your being mafia.I think the read on Jack could reasonably come from v!you, but I was weighing it in addition to a couple other things (a lot of people looking really good in relation to Jack, you falling off a bit, Jack/Sabi's respective treatments of you having some pingy moments). I felt like the Jack thing was pressed enough to seem like a real thing that came out of a meme, but the read was more of an overall thing. I'd rather not waste time with people defending themselves though, because when this happened in the past with Jack + Lucy it just came off as an attack at me, and I'm just trying to figure out the mafia. It's not helpful when a lot of people's pushes have seemed meta founded and I haven't been able to follow.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:07 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:54 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:44 pm I was reading NANOOK as unpaired with Jack, mostly because he pushed Jack without any wiggle room and Jack had a lamesauce reason to clear NANOOK, but possible I'm off-base here, I don't find him very villagery outside of that. The motion detect thing is kind of weird. But I dunno.

I'm having a hard time with some of your takes. Nook ended up pivoting off Jack when it mattered. How is that "without any wiggle room"?

did this happen the day Lily died?

i'm having a little trouble with the specifics in votes/remembering that when I can't pull it up and it's not posted frequently like on FoL, i'm more-so thinking Nanook was calling Jack mafia all day. it was part of why I was 98% sure that there was a mafia in NOOK/Jack, the dynamic seemed unpure.

The day Lily died, Nook stayed on Jack, and Nook also knew Jack was in no danger. The day Jack died, Nook found a reason to get off Jack's wagon at a time where it really could have gone either way.

what I remember is it was 6-3 around EOD time. I think the closest it got was 6-4. I was watching the votes at this point because I was going to vote for Jack rather than my vanity wagon if Creature was in any sort of real danger, so I didn't really see it as "could go either way" or I may have viewed it differently. i kind of feel like bussing Jack all day only to pivot that EOD in a way that didn't really impact anything would be a lame W/W strategy, though.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:54 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:44 pm I was reading NANOOK as unpaired with Jack, mostly because he pushed Jack without any wiggle room and Jack had a lamesauce reason to clear NANOOK, but possible I'm off-base here, I don't find him very villagery outside of that. The motion detect thing is kind of weird. But I dunno.

I'm having a hard time with some of your takes. Nook ended up pivoting off Jack when it mattered. How is that "without any wiggle room"?

did this happen the day Lily died?

i'm having a little trouble with the specifics in votes/remembering that when I can't pull it up and it's not posted frequently like on FoL, i'm more-so thinking Nanook was calling Jack mafia all day. it was part of why I was 98% sure that there was a mafia in NOOK/Jack, the dynamic seemed unpure.

Yeah sure. If they have any results or W/E they should out it at this point through because that's basically a death sentence check if they're town PR.

But I feel like Creature's treatment around Jack was extremely unpaired.

Lol if Creature got outed by an error.. that's not a red check though, but that increases odds of being mafia, no?

You have a positive motion on Creature?

Can you pull the quotes you think look the worst for Wilgy?

*shrug*

Aside from the meme Jack read, their treatment around Jack is kind of limp. It's hard to say because they were basically absent the day he got chopped though.

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:38 pm Alright

Reads

Because you want those

Mac town
Creature town
Jack lock town

Sabi is scum yall blind

So Neon is claiming the Jack read was a meme but seemed to carry it to the point where it made their list.

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 4:05 pm Yeah but I also imagine there is no good reason for a wolf nook to even bring up his mistake either
He is just outting his role entirely

That's a fair point. I'm just a bit skeptical of stuff he claims regardless after what he pulled previously. But it's sloppy enough it likely comes from town, in addition to the other things in his favor.

I will try to neatly pull up the stuff I feel looks bad for Neon at some point.

I don't have the background with him to say "it's NOOK so it's plenty believable," but sure. I am leaning on him unpaired with Jack regardless, just something to consider.

I definitely believe Ruri at this point FWIW, with the Jack flip too.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:52 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:50 pm I didn't even realize you moved your vote. I was watching votes EOD though and yeah, it wouldn't have mattered.

I guess NANOOK calling out Jack for looking bad after his reaction test was a plus point too, though I'm not sure how much stake to put into that since there was already a lot of momentum against Jack.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:09 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:08 am Jack probably mafia lol, probably with one of falcon/schia/ruri

This is really just falcon/schia imo, I think ruri had a pretty town reaction

Can you elaborate on this? Do you still believe one of Falcon/Schia is mafia?

He was setting up to push a world where all three are town and I am too, which is...not a super viable approach if we're all three town, I think? Might be straight tmi, idk, but I tend to think it means I included a partner

Alright, will look at that though I think Jack did TMI a couple things.

So you have a no motion on Creature? Do you have any other checks?

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:53 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:44 pm I was reading NANOOK as unpaired with Jack, mostly because he pushed Jack without any wiggle room and Jack had a lamesauce reason to clear NANOOK, but possible I'm off-base here, I don't find him very villagery outside of that. The motion detect thing is kind of weird. But I dunno.

What makes it the motion detection weird?

I don't get how you confuse Creature and Wilgy.

I didn't even realize you moved your vote. I was watching votes EOD though and yeah, it wouldn't have mattered.

I guess NANOOK calling out Jack for looking bad after his reaction test was a plus point too, though I'm not sure how much stake to put into that since there was already a lot of momentum against Jack.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:09 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:08 am Jack probably mafia lol, probably with one of falcon/schia/ruri

This is really just falcon/schia imo, I think ruri had a pretty town reaction

Can you elaborate on this? Do you still believe one of Falcon/Schia is mafia?

I was reading NANOOK as unpaired with Jack, mostly because he pushed Jack without any wiggle room and Jack had a lamesauce reason to clear NANOOK, but possible I'm off-base here, I don't find him very villagery outside of that. The motion detect thing is kind of weird. But I dunno.

okay thoughts on Wilgy ISO...

-don't like that he was part of the initial push/momentum against Cape

-IRT Jack, I don't find his approach that bad. it feels like, while he is townreading Jack, he is also clearing a lot of people who may be potential counterwagons.. so he may have not been part of the Jack push, but he does in a way inadvertently stop other things from taking off

-generally feel like he is trying to ~solve the game~ in a way that would be challenging to fake? which i didn't see from Neon.

i'm not seeing the smoking gun here, really, but would like to hear from people with a better idea of his meta/wolf range.

that was more of a "i have been wrong about a lot this game, let me get paranoid that [thinking you're town] is one more thing i'm wrong on" thought

would still like people to look into Neon. i was thinking Neon/Porscha is possible, but Neon i felt more strongly about. that said, i have no experience with them or idea of their meta.

feel weird about Wilgy not showing up yet..

i guess i should ISO him.

I guess in my mind mafia would try to at least look good and set up for end game considering we have a lot of mischops? It's possible there's like history with these people/site culture/etc that makes this assessment wrong on my end. I want to consider it tomorrow and re-ISO him. Obviously my reads haven't been the best this game and I'm okay deferring to others today for the ultimate decision.

Well you are all smarter than me so I am kind of okay with a Wilgy wagon but I'd like Neon talked about too.

If the level 1 answer is it I don't have to do much anyway.

Chop on a town*

We are objectively in a good position right now, there's only been one actual chop on a mafia, both masons are alive, there's a ton of people spewed clear. This game should not be very difficult to figure out.

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:07 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:06 pm

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:05 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:57 pm

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:33 pm schia is clear from jack spew lolz

is that your only thought going into today?

why are you alive?

why wouldn't I be alive? no one is really clearing me

You've been "clear" since the stuff with Sabi, and multiple people, including mafia Jack, have expressed knowing you're a superstar from reputation. Yet you're still alive.

i dont have a reputation on TS aside from mac and jack and creature, everyone else here ive barely ever played with

At least one person who was on the mafia team knows your rep and that's what matters. You don't have to play defense to me but you should at least consider why you're alive. And more than that I want to know more of your viewpoint.

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:06 pm i dont think neon is clear or townie but i hesitate to go against mac's read when he was giving me such a hard time

Can you expand on this? Do you think Mac would have the same read on Neon now as he did day 2? And who do you think is mafia

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:05 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:57 pm

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:33 pm schia is clear from jack spew lolz

is that your only thought going into today?

why are you alive?

why wouldn't I be alive? no one is really clearing me

You've been "clear" since the stuff with Sabi, and multiple people, including mafia Jack, have expressed knowing you're a superstar from reputation. Yet you're still alive.

Maybe I should just sheep Mac. He's been right about everything so far.

I think Neon/Anne has at least 1. Will consider who I vote and think they should both talk about the other.

anne wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:33 pm schia is clear from jack spew lolz

is that your only thought going into today?

why are you alive?

Here are the best points against Neon:

1. They have kind of fallen off. I wanted to discuss stuff with them yesterday and they disappeared.

2. They gave a lazy townread on Jack early game for nothingsauce reasons and barely reviewed it

3. They made a read on Anne that was like, "I could see Anne killing Mac to seal the townread" which feels *easily* like that Neon herself could've done with Mac

4. No clearing interactions with Jack or Sabi. Sabi asking Neon why Anne was voting them early was super weird. This is also important because Jack and Sabi seemed to mostly be talking/appealing to villagers

5. Jack kept them in nulls then never looked at them again.

live* though

(they also could've thought lucy was mason)

but i do need to consider that maybe they don't die if they're all wrong, so will give my dues to wilgy/anne.

nanook/seanzie/falcoon/schia/creature all town.

but lucy thought it was me/anne/wilgy, and jack flipped mafia so

1. their 3/3 was off already after jack flip and had to be revalled

2. i know they were wrong on me

so i'm a bit hesitant to follow that. part of why i thought they'd like, though, was i thought they were town mafia would want alive to keep pushing bad reads.. so them dying is either because

1. they were right on something

2. mafia wanted to kill them to push the stuff they were wrong on

so i am a little suspicious of you if wilgy is town here.

they were also spewed clear but creature seemed like the far more obvious kill to me, that was only a conclusion i came to overnight?

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:16 pm Like wilgy HARD defends jack. Are you not taking it to heart cuz you think wilgy wa susut getting snowed by jack or what? It looks really bad imo

i think that's level 1 /shrug

i think wilgy had a read he believed in

i mean, jack did nothing to defend sabi, i don't think mafia's strategy is to hard defend each other

i'll look at him again but i think mafia bussed/distanced/stayed out of it personally (i do think the push on jack was widely town-driven *to start*)

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:15 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:13 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:11 pm Hold up go read all of wilgy posts 2 pages before eod and tell me that is town

go read Neon.

Neon didnt exist yesterday did she?

no but her early stuff is paired and she had super bad associative stuff with both Jack and Sabi.

yeah the lucy kill is causing me to pause fwiw i thought it was Creature dying

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:11 pm Hold up go read all of wilgy posts 2 pages before eod and tell me that is town

go read Neon.

Night 4 Notes:

First of all, Creature and Mac GOAT. And whoever other townies were pushing there. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was such bus energy, simply because I thought Jack seemed towny + I townread Wilgy (main other person sticking up for him?) but I was not very surprised by the flip because something about thread momentum felt like that may be a hit.

I was around EOD mostly because I planned to vote Jack if there was ever a risk of Creature going over him, but it stayed distinct enough difference.

Second of all, I think it’s pretty clear from the way Jack interacted with me that he was largely trying to pocket me and coming at me to try to sway my vote, but anyway.

What I know:

2 mafia in [Anne, Creature, Wilgy, Falcon, Lucy, NANOOK, Neon, Porscha, Pyxxy, Ruri, Schiavetto, Seanzie]

Creature spewed hard town (probably dead). Wilgy still very town.
I townread Lucy’s EOD.
POE: Anne/Falcon/NANOOK/Neon/Porscha/Pyxxy/Ruri/Schiavetto/Seanzie
Ruri; Probably doctor?
NANOOK; Would *lean* unpaired with Jack
Porscha/Pyxxy/Schia were all town leans.
If this laziness is correct, would mean 2 in Anne/Falcon/Neon/Seanzie
If Anne is town and right on Seanzie/Jack *difference* check that’d make the last 2 exactly Falcon/Neon
*is this possible*?
~
Note: Could see Falcon/Seanzie/NANOOK TMI reads from Jack.

*Neon made a weak-sauce townread on Jack early on

Can sorta see Anne townread stuff as white knight on a villager?

Could also maybe see w!Anne take a stronger stance against Jack, but eh.

Maybe falcon is okay? P#1065

~~~

What if Creature, Wilgy, Anne, Seanzie, Falcon, and NANOOK are all okay?
Leaves Lucy, Porscha, Schiavetta, Pyxxy, Neon, Ruri
Think Schia/Jack seemed unpaired.

Neon would make sense as mafia.

Lucy seems a bit spewed from Jack as well. Plus the way Jack is pushing Sabi+Lucy, I highly doubt it’s 2 partners.

Creature cleared.
Lucy cleared.

Wilgy looks good from p#1080. Not sure what it says for Anne.

Porscha, Schiavetta, Pyxxy, Neon, Anne

Anne probably fine.

[Porscha/Schiavetto/Pyxxy/Neon]

First 2 seemed towny but if all my townreads are right that leaves me exactly at [Pyxxy/Neon].. Is that possible?

Jack seems to take a soft stance against Sabi when pressure builds. I think his treatment of Anne contrasts and reads more like white knighting.

I think Jack had a weaksauce read on NANOOK V that is unlikely paired.

Probably wouldn’t clear Ruri as it’s not out of the question Jack helps her with a claim (?) based on the weird-ish treatment around it.

p#1709 looks moderately unpaired with Seanzie.

Could see one of Falcon/Schiavetto/Porcha faired with Jack just for the way the ping came as an afterthought, though I wouldn’t necessary put a lot of stake into that.

Possibility of Neon+Ruri?

Neon does have some “Ruri looks good because of the game” brush off posts.

Neon I think has the least clearing in relation to Jack.

—

-Note that Scotty does vote Neon at one point D1.



Neon ISO:
-Gives Jack towncred for an easy/nothingsauce reason

-In retrospect, not hard to see Neon approach to Sabi as a bus? Especially when Neon isn’t one of the people Sabi snaps at in return.

-Lots of fluff

So I don’t feel like “lock Neon scum” from this ISO and I definitely want to consider Mac’s POE after Jack flip too, but also would need a good argument for why Seanzie would be paired with jack, and that was awhile ago

Also Neon sort of had a weird comment to Anne about how they’d kill Mac if they were Anne “to lock in the townread” which could’ve been what Neon did to Mac - plus in general just see the most partner potential between Jack/Neon here.

–

p#111 interaction from Sabi toward Neon feels pingy.

Maybe lack of general partner interactions from Sabi could make sense?

Sabi treatment of Pyxxy/Schia seems a bit unpaired.