The Syndicate

I think not flipping you now is game-losing for town because I'm a villager and I'm always going to go for you tomorrow if you don't flip today, unless we hit a mafia that's not you, and I highly doubt Neon is mafia. Porscha could be a hit, but you stopped pushing there. Basically you're either mafia or you're town and your worldview is not making sense to me.

Let me ask you, Wilgy, what are you most proud of your play this game? What do you regret the most?

Also I thought you said I (or anyone for the matter) could be a Ruri teammate? So not sure where your thought process in the "if Neon is town" is coming

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:10 pm 'If I am wrong on Neon'

I think really means that it has to be Ruri + a misclear that has been placed.

If I miscleared a slot, I think it's most likely between Falc/Porscha leaning on Porscha. Porscha was hedgey as all hell towards Jack and I don't have anything that inherently clears them.

Creature I still think isn't a Jack teammate. Obs doesn't have teammates. Nook isn't fulfilling a win con (or at least wasn't when they started shielding me).

I.. can't tell if you're dumbtelling or not. I don't get how someone legitimately wouldn't realize Creature is mason by now..?

I don't know if it's a playstyle difference. Or maybe I'm more towny than I think I seem, because ironically I've been suspicious of Lily and Schia both townreading too when I pushed them and they were both villagers. But part of it is the gamestate.

I mean I think it would be completely reasonable to suspect me from the perspective of v!you. Like, I've also been a loud wrong voice, yes. And I'm a villager, so to me, how does this game make sense if we're both villagers? Part of the reason why I'm suspicious of you is some of your suspects seem tactical. Your avoidance of pushing me or NANOOK beyond light "hmm maybe" shade, when we've arguably been your 2 biggest defenders at points, namely. I think if you were a villager you'd be more suspicious of both of us.

Wilgy/Ruri unlikely paired.
annoyingly I can't completely outrule Porscha/Ruri

opening Ruri's ISO isn't much of anything but she feels generally fine to me, and makes less sense in a gamestate leading to a lot of MLs than Wilgy/Porscha do, who have steered.

i'm not voting outside of Wilgy/Porscha anyway and don't see myself moving off Wilgy.

my POE is probably like Wilgy/Porscha/Ruri.

coming into today Ruri's name would've been yours but I think today and yesterday I've townread you a lot. i'm still struggling with your role not really fitting in with the setup but, at the point where i'm letting it go. plus i think the wolf team has to be fairly deep to get to this point.

I've also looked at the Jack stuff on Falcon over and over and the track and I'm generally fine just removing him.

Voting Neon is also ignoring the whole Anne wagon, which I refuse to believe came about purely.

I think Porscha was a big factor in it, but Wilgy/Porcha/NANOOK always has 1-2.

Anne was mostly treated as town and would be a valuable ML for mafia as I'm sure they debated night killing her.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:25 am

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:45 pm @DrWilgy

Re: Neon is there anyway you can do me a favor and check my ISO because I had a ton of interactions with them and I struggle to see their reaction to my push coming from a wolf. It really seemed like they believed their self.

Also try coming up with a solve with a POE of Ruri/Falcon/Porscha/NANOOK because if you're a villager this is the only thing I can work on in my head. Ruri/NANOOK don't work.

Obs. You realize that Wilgy is only pushing for my misexe because I have been pushing wolf Wilgy 3 days in a row NKing me would be career sepuku because I have exactly one thing to follow in death and I'm the easiest target to misexe because I'm inherently going to behave "wolfy" always.

Wilgy is a fucking fantastic player he can worm his way out of a misexe by appearing towny I've been told nothing but good things about his game. I'm not. Look at my wolf games, I'm not a loud wolf I'm quiet I'm methodical but I'm afraid to make noise. I'm making lots of noise here.

Every dead player wants Wilgy dead for 3 days straight. Do you believe in confidence? Because when something appears this wolfy it just IS this wolfy more often than not. I'll apologize profusely if I'm wrong but I don't think I'm wrong Iam very very confident.

I thought of it overnight and I do want to hear Wilgy out for his solve and stuff, but I don't see myself voting elsewhere regardless. Anne should've never died, we had our shot for 2 days to hit a wolf outside of him (he had his shot! He wanted both Anne and Schia. He also wanted Cape and didn't want Jack. That's a lot of misses), and ignoring the dead would be stupid. If it's wrong, then whatever, I'll have to figure out/reflect, but this needs to be resolved before LYLO.

I also did look at your wolf games and believe you're town here, that's not the crux of why but I've been fighting it for awhile.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:35 pm Oh mother clucker.

I lost like half my ISO review that took place during the earlier thread by multi tabbing.

The ISO went from TRing Neon to observing some early potential Sabi/Neon links that I don't think teammate of both Sabi/Neon makes.

Again, I find it super odd that the OMGUS pushed you back to TRing Neon.

Well no, it's not the OMGUS. It was the way they handled their conversation/responses. I believe that a mafia could use all the logic in the world to show they're town (and someone could argue it with this logic), but sometimes there are just.. little moments? That make someone a villager, and that's that. I ignored this with Lily even though I'd felt it at a couple points, so I don't want to ignore it with Neon. It was the like.. frustration they had with me, and the arguments they used - that I wasn't listening to people like Mac, and other people they played with, who knew they were town. That they were used to wolves treating them like I was/that indignation.. I felt like everything as a whole, how they handled me, how they felt they were arguing they were just playing the game/just pushing me and not ATEing, etc, that made me find them.

If they're a wolf here, then they know I'm town and they have none of the "deep wolf paranoia" either. Like I really just believed the way they were talking about how they thought I was a deep wolf and they had caught people like me before and no one was listening, I don't know if I'm describing this properly, but I just don't see myself voting them after our interaction. If I'm wrong then it's something I can reflect on in the future, but people should've talked to me more when I was pushing them at the time instead of bringing it back now, tbh.

I got much more heated than I wish I did against Neon. It wasn't a great night. But... that would be a pretty insane team by any standards

Ruri and Porscha would be the 2 people with no clearing spew but eh?

Creature I thought commented Empowerer wouldn't make sense unless it was to empower doc

NANOOK and Jack just felt like 2 people like... reacting? Like Jack's reaction feels like a reaction to new information idk it just didn't read as paired there

@DrWilgy

Re: Neon is there anyway you can do me a favor and check my ISO because I had a ton of interactions with them and I struggle to see their reaction to my push coming from a wolf. It really seemed like they believed their self.

Also try coming up with a solve with a POE of Ruri/Falcon/Porscha/NANOOK because if you're a villager this is the only thing I can work on in my head. Ruri/NANOOK don't work.

Meh if anything that interaction reminds me NANOOK is town.

Falcons seemed decent today though.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:49 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:42 pm why dont we all flash wagon pyxxy then

hy do you insist on acting scummy?

First you spend tons of posts pushing Ruri, then drop it completely. Then you're pushing Schia. Now you're pushing me.

Note, I'm saying pushing. Not investigating, not really creating a case against because your only effort was in the Ruri case and when that didn't take hold you gave up on it really easier. Nor did you make those posts easy to digest for the rest of town. There's nothing wrong with having an investigative style that relies on re-reading and quoting as you go. But it was never made to convince anyone in a meaningful way. It was fluff to try and distract town.

You are honestly working your way out of my null reads into my bad vibes section. Your actions today and honestly a bit of yesterday too especially at EOD make no sense for a towny. Falcon is a great example of did weird shit but things that could clearly have a town benefit.

Yesterday you begged for a flash wagon and you got one. Today you're doing the same thing again.

Why are you so afraid of a Wigly flip, Porscha?

This was Pyxxy's last legacy thingy too

Why did you switch your read on Porscha?

I'm just exhausted of thinking of scenarios. Every time I do I've reached the wrong conclusion. The Schia flip hit me really really hard. I made a whole chart in my notebook and thought I was doing dissociations properly. But I already talked today about why I think you/Porscha is viable. If that's wrong and it's some WTF team like Ruri/Falcon then idk wtf is this game.

How does empower work? I thought it made an action take precedence?

Wilgy I don't know. I'm honestly just tired of the game. I don't want to be here and all of my attempts to figure things out on My own have been wrong. I don't really know what to do here. I may just pull a creature and not vote at all. But I don't feel like I can try to communicate with you without looking and feeling stupid because it will automatically make me feel like you're town and I feel like I'm stuck in a cycle of this shit. You should have died days ago. I don't have the answer to this game and I'm doing the things the people who mafia decided to kill in my place would've wanted.

oh Pyxxy was also vying for Porsha but that's just 1 strike against Porscha, Wilgy it's been like everyone now

My point being, I've also been reading Wilgy as super towny this game based on his posting, but this issue has become something beyond my read. I don't doubt that your read has high accuracy, but we are dealing with a gamestate where multiple strange kills have been made when someone like me (or even you, despite your wagon, you are a JOAT claim), or even someone easy/quiet like Ruri, would make more sense as a kill. Instead they are killing people who are specifically vying for Wilgy. The 2 people we just MLed were specifically vying for Wilgy. So - I can't ignore that anymore. I initially thought it could be a frame and whatnot but I don't think people usually listen much to the dead, and I think if Wilgy wasn't mafia, mafia could be making kills that easily resulted in him being lunched by now.

I've defended Wilgy for 2 days and watched the people who want Wilgy dead slowly die. At this point I'm not even following my own instinct it's like he's red checked.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:18 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:17 pm I mean if you're calling Wilgy/Falcon unpaired though I agree?

Well, that, but im actually just calling them both town lol

If I were forced to kill one I'd kill falcon, track be dammed

If you and Wilgy are both town I will do the gross thing Mac said he'd do.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:17 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:16 pm Wilgy was calling Lucy town like hard town since early though so he wouldn't be able to vote there

Then presumably he would've been on Jack since a vote for creature is tantamount to being willing to sacrifice jack

The creature wagon was the wagon mafia was trying to push over so no.

I mean if you're calling Wilgy/Falcon unpaired though I agree?

Wilgy was calling Lucy town like hard town since early though so he wouldn't be able to vote there

anne [6]: Creature, pyxxy, Porscha, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, DrWilgy, Seanzie
NANOOK [4]: obscurity, Ruri, anne, falcon45ca
DrWilgy [2]: Neon, Schiavetto

anne [6]: Creature, pyxxy, Porscha, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, DrWilgy, Seanzie

Porscha do you think this wagon is pure? Because you seem reluctant to push either Wilgy or NANOOK, idk. If you're a villager there is 0% chance Wilgy/NANOOK doesn't have at least one (I would bet high stakes on this anyway)

like my point of view is, I've tried twice to hit wolves on my own with lily and schia. i was wrong both times. when i take things into my own hands, like defending jack (and now, likely, wilgy), i've been nothing but a hinderance to the town. when i was questioning, days ago, why i hadn't been night killed, and jack made that comment that was like "no offense obscurity, but you're not a superstar like anne and mac" i know he didn't mean it harshly, but it drove a fire in me.. i want to be good. and i wanted to show i was good by burying wolves and that didn't didn't work. so, at this point, i think the best thing i can do to "be good" is to stop listening to my own instinct, that was maybe right on cape and anne but wrong on my scumreads, and instead listen to the will of the dead people. i'll continue to try to make myself obvious town as well, but, if that part doesn't work, i can at least leave a legacy that respects the wills of the dead.

so yeah, i'm pretty set in Wilgy at a minimum dying. but that doesn't mean i would instantly shoot at you if he's town, because if he's town it means everyone has been wrong.

if Wilgy flips town i'll probably just listen to his legacy.. all the dead people wanted Wilgy so I have no other legacy to follow there. but i don't think he'll flip town at this point..

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:28 am

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:25 am NANOOK I get what you're thinking, you have a read and it's right despite all the dead thinking otherwise but I've thought this for 2 days now and at this point mafia are making their kill selections for a reason. I do not see a plausible world where Wilgy is town and mafia is somehow keeping the people alive protecting him. If the kills were different Wilgy would've been dead days ago. I am letting go of this pet read and I think you should too.

Whether I do or not is unlikely to change the outcome of today, tbh, and im obviously not posting enough and don't have the thread pull atp to sway people off anyways, so

I feel like we are small enough that any opinion, especially if it's of a villager when we're at 2 vs 6 and have someone who is mostly sheeping, could potentially change things but we'll see.

Oh I guess Pyxxy could've also been killed because of the track which may be a slight pro point for NANOOK town too

Also I really do just think it's Wilgy/Porscha. Their reactions kind of solidified that although I haven't looked more closely and I've been wrong a lot this game but for once this read is taking into account the dead.

NANOOK I get what you're thinking, you have a read and it's right despite all the dead thinking otherwise but I've thought this for 2 days now and at this point mafia are making their kill selections for a reason. I do not see a plausible world where Wilgy is town and mafia is somehow keeping the people alive protecting him. If the kills were different Wilgy would've been dead days ago. I am letting go of this pet read and I think you should too.

Neons never been here for EOD I don't think so I just assumed time zone. Even when Neon herself was getting wagoned at fluctuating points she wasn't here

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:05 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:59 pm But Wilgy is literally pushing to kill Neon here. He ain't killing someone he's trying to push on and who he ended on last EOD

Well, the D6 poll shows he did EOD on Neon...thoughts?

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Like it wouldn't make sense for w!Wilgy to kill Neon when he was set up to start pushing them again coming into today

I've been engaged all game and evaluating. You've seemed to have waken up a bit today but I've already been here and explored angles, including Neon. Im hard locked into Wilgy/Porcha/ NANOOK POE and I think it's just Wilgy/Porcha.

But Wilgy is literally pushing to kill Neon here. He ain't killing someone he's trying to push on and who he ended on last EOD

Well their wagon died but it was large at certain points, tapered about. I think it got to 4 or 5 at one point yesterday

I think Pyxxy made more sense as a kill than Neon in a Wilgy wolf world because Pyxxy was never getting voted and Pyxxy was against Wilgy without being loud enough to be damning.

Good enough I had to speak up against it.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:50 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:48 pm Yes we've established that I'm alive because I've been a loud voice defending mafia. Basically the 5th wolf. That's why I'm literally carrying out the strongest part of the will of all the recent dead people. Neon being mafia makes no sense here. Neon was Mac's strongest townread and no one dead wanted Neon to die. Pyxxy literally died going at Porscha why would you ignore that Wilgy?

This line of thinking completely ignores that Neon has been a loud voice against Wilgy...they parked and left the RD, why does Wilgy leave them alive?



Your whole premise here is negated by that fact

Because Neon is a wagon. And Neons only been loud since yesterday. All these people who died were clear enough not to be a wagon. Neon is MLable. Mafia needs that here

But I mean sure we can kill me then we'll have 6 towns in the graveyard who want Wilgy dead

If I were to die at this moment my legacy would be Wilgy/Porscha with a small side of scrutinize NANOOK for weird claim and everyone else is fine. Falcon seems super town today. I would never touch Ruri either after Schia's flip and the clear doc dodge night kill.

Which you ignore.

I've defended Wilgy more than I ever defended Jack and that's why Wilgy is just outed.

Yes we've established that I'm alive because I've been a loud voice defending mafia. Basically the 5th wolf. That's why I'm literally carrying out the strongest part of the will of all the recent dead people. Neon being mafia makes no sense here. Neon was Mac's strongest townread and no one dead wanted Neon to die. Pyxxy literally died going at Porscha why would you ignore that Wilgy?

(Those are the 5 people, all recent deaths, who wanted Wilgy dead)

Sure but I'm town. Plus they didn't just have Wilgy POE. They wanted his neck. Anne and Pyxxy had me town. Schia had me town. Seanzie had me tinfoil territory but town. Lucy had me POE but wanted to kill Wilgy first.

Nice of you to soft defend him though, it is doing nothing but confirm my suspicions.

I've explained why I came to Neon hard town after pushing on them, but I can talk about it more tomorrow.

Living this long also sucks I did not know the games lasted this long or i wouldn't have played but that's not anyone else's fault.

I think you're outed and you can imagine I've replied to everything you say with "idontbelieveyou.gif". You left me alive thinking I'd keep defending you but I'm not a fool and I'm not letting another villager die for my own idioticy. Make the wagons between me and you if you want, I literally do not intend to spend another day alive with you alive. Yes this is dramatic but I'm mad at myself for how I've played.