The Syndicate

Sir, bussing exists.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:40 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:38 pm Sir, bussing exists.
kk, and what indicates that this is a bus?

What part of me even pushing for creature yesterday indicates that it's a bus? You can't just call something a bus without actually doing the legwork to provide reason. If it was as easy as that town cred wouldn't be a concept.

Sir, if you're not going to justify that its not a bus, then anyone is free to consider that you and creature is a possible world, and they may even justify that its a likely world by saying POE there's no other wolves for you to not buss anyway.

Your entire argument is just barely restrained OMGuS rn. If you really believe Sig/tutuu is non w/w then get me to 5 wolves please. Show me how you're going to achieve this.

I don't care about any disassociations unless I'm >90 percent confident on them otherwise there's no point for me in worldbuilding.

How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

No it literally does not make sense.
Here let me give you a sample of this world.

So first we assume Jack is scum. Then lets add Sabi.
Then mmm, well ooh how about Dennis.
Then okay so we need at least one in Seanzie and SPF, and then ooh one in Falcon and Porscha.

IDK abt you guys but Im not getting to Jack/Sabi/Seanzie/Falcon worlds.

Oh I forgot Wilgy, makes it easier.

Jack/Sabi/Wilgy/Dennis/Falcon

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:02 pm Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?

Porscha every day of the week.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:03 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:58 pm How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

No it literally does not make sense.
Here let me give you a sample of this world.

So first we assume Jack is scum. Then lets add Sabi.
Then mmm, well ooh how about Dennis.
Then okay so we need at least one in Seanzie and SPF, and then ooh one in Falcon and Porscha.

IDK abt you guys but Im not getting to Jack/Sabi/Seanzie/Falcon worlds.
I don't think that Sig and Tutuu are both town though?

I don't think this world can exist in this gamestate.

Tutuu being town would open Jack wolf more I agree. Sabi can effectively fit in most slots if I'm wrong about the Kate spew (and this is a concerning thought).

I really don't think Falcon makes sense as W still.

Was responding to Creature.

But yes my advice to all members of the POE is to get real and construct some teams. Because its not realistic to townread half the POE for laughs.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:03 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:03 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:02 pm Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?
Porscha every day of the week.
Why?

I've found that their persepctive of the game was very agreeable and made alot of sense. Think this is just wellthought Porscha, I like their articulation of feelings on you and Mac and SPF. Even think the whole catching up thing is a minor point in their favor.

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:05 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:58 pm How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.
If we are wolves then what the fuck are we doing? What's our plan?

Someone pointed the way sig handled Roxy yesterday was unlikely to come from wolf yesterday as it would make them look too bad.

I confess I started the day suspecting tutuu but lately tutuu reeked to me as someone fighting off the so far wolfsided status quo.

Perhaps I am missing something and maybe tutuu is just fucking with me but I know this following level zero reads ain't working so far.

Tutuu posted a crappy solve that was literally head empty, lets torch all of the towniest posters except Mac, that doesn't do anything.
SPF pointed the thing about sig I think, and I don't believe it. I think Sig has adopted positions that fit what I think a certain type of wolf does in this situation if that makes any sense. I don't think this particular TWTBAW holds any merit.

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:07 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:01 pm Jack/Sabi/Wilgy/Dennis/Falcon
Is that your town list or wolf list?

This was a hypothetical wolf list where I entertained you being town and having a good perspective of the game and making a world out of it.

► Show Spoiler

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:20 am also spf I think I can say with some confidence that sean is town here. i've played with evil sean once and I was able to see through it
sean this game has been able to very like... be direct in his 1 on 1s with people. when he wolfed I saw a lot more deflection. I don't think you should be open to other thoughts on it today at the very very least

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:12 am
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:35 pm B. If you hadn't noticed I have Creature as solid town, falcon as lean town, and Porscha as town, and Mac/SPF may have some deviations here but none of us are put bulldozing these players.
C. Actually I simply think town got off to a horrible start D1. I say this from the simple fact of the Baudib's wagon existence. I know you don't agree that Baudib was obvious town but as far as I'm concerned there was at minimum some number of town pursuing things that I would label inadvisable and there were definitely tensions that grew from the fact that Alison/Mac/Lucy/Baudib were telling people to "shut up and stop doing stupid things because we said so", and so these people never got around the fact that they think Mac's controlling the game in an evil direction simply from the fact he told them to stop wagoning their pet scumreads. That's a very nice story and all, but my point is that I don't actually current think you need that much control over the game to get a successful Moon use to cause an Alison chop. The recipe was right there, in D1, no one trusted Alison, and you want to know who pushed Alison and added to the boiling pot? Spoiler alert, its some of the people I'm suspecting.

The obvious counterargument is "but what about Mac's D2, he told everyone to vote for Alison for however long" to which I will simply state that I understand the concern but actually here's how to read Mac, so we segue into:

A. The first point about reading Mac, is that you can get a good idea just entirely based on Mac's stated reads, not their accuracy, but his stated explanations and read development. Mac's great at spinning BS and bussing, but the point is that he's not great at faking reasonable reads or for that matter reevaluating. I'm not going to bother explaining why I think Mac's D1 reads are reasonable since you obviously don't think they are and I will only come off as even more a snob. However, Mac's ... breakdown D2 is as far as I'm concerned a v!Mac. Do you think w!Mac bothers faking vulnerability? Not well, not in any way thats grounded. He stated clearly why he suddenly pivoted onto Alison, and thats because of a breakdown in confidence of worldview. Why was there a breadown in confidence of worldview? Because certain of his scumreads were showing town entitlement, these were Falcon and (Dr.Wilgy? I cant remember and I might be biased) and he had never expressed townreading Alison that confidently. Then he switches to actually I change my mind, I haven't a clue, and actually don't kill Alison. This is a massive amount of flexibility and whether you like it or not, its not easy to pull of convincingly as wolf, nor does it give him any benefit of wolf when everyone will be going "bro wtf was that". I am not going to talk about Mac's D3 and attempt to justify that its genuine frustration on Mac's part, but that is what I think.

In any case, it is much easier for me to say "oh I townread Mac", because I can follow basically all of his stated thought processes while others have not.

X. I strongly believe in my own ability to read Mac to speculate on the w/w nature of the interactions you cited. Besides the fact that I think most preflip claimed w/w interactions are in general weak, I do think SPF could have come to a similar assessment as I have, and this is just based on SPF being a stronger player and they've already echoed my general thrust that the reason Mac is town is that "actually Mac is polarized". And lastly, the point where Mac doubles around and asks SPF "so why don't you scumread me" is emblematic of Mac's townplay in that he will ask pointed questions out of the blue to the people he townreads for paranoia reasons. Theoretically SPF can be a wolf in all of this but these are not interactions w/w with Mac. Mac as a wolf would've likely theatred more with SPF as a partner, this interaction is pretty tame.

Why did I do this to myself.
yuuuuuge mindmeld on this and I appreciate how you analyzed spf in it too since I always feel in the dark on her. I think at worst it's w/t with spf as the wolf but maybe I was too worried about my inability to read her that I moved her down due to The Fear. i'm still pensive on her but your read gives me more confidence to do this

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:17 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:07 am im at this now

creature, sig, bereft, dennis, falcon
weren't you sr'ing jack before?

How do spoilers work. Augh

Sabi, plz.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:38 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:35 pmSabi, plz.
What.

I don't have time and everyone expects me to have confidence and high energy when I just don't have that in general. No one wants to fairly engage with me because they keep using Kate posting for my slot so why do I need to do anything. I rather just roll over and save myself time and energy lol

I understand but I also think that you could attempt to engage with other people more. I haven't really engaged with you because the reads you have shared didn't seem much of note to me. If you think this is a high bar I'm asking, then fine.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:40 pm Alison
6
40%
Voters: falcon45ca, Neon, Jackofhearts2005, tutuu, sig, Dennis

theres no way thats the wolfteam

omfg

lmao
lmao

I have thought for a while now that Sabi is town for Sabi reasons but I don't know how to put that read over in a way that's charitable.

It would not be charitable of me to state that my view of your towngame especially of late now that you're semiretired is to just complain about not having time and make some basic reads and that go nowhere and then screech at everyone POE'ing you then do the thing where you don't care if you get voted off and all in all it is not pleasant. Hopefully you still can't figure out who I am.

My view of your wolfgame is clearly that it is not this, in particular, it is actually effective.

Moreover, I think you were not lying when you said you had nobody to give you a recap.

I unironically still think my posts from #2057 to #2060 on the subject of sig still hold merit. And I think it would be bad to suggest that Sig couldn't have been TMI'ing Roxy yesterday as wolf because he'd look bad for it. That's literally exactly how some wolves behave, make a stink about how they're being ignored even while they push the correct reads but not actually making much of an impact at all.

Oh so that's why the wolves have been running interference all day.
So you're saying its beneficial for the wolves to get the Zealot run up with votes at the end of the day, correct?

What happened to everyone?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:36 am
Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:35 am What happened to everyone?
Nighttime in the US most likely?

That didn't stop people yesterday.

I'm at the point where I have to seriously consider SPF being a wolf especially if Kate/Tutuu aren't.

I don't remember how I'm supposed to read SPF properly.

Its rather irritating that in all of this I have not been able to just lock falcon as town and move on.

I also think Creature is just mafia based on tacit approval from @Seanzie that Creature is not being obvtown, too bad @Lucy has been out of commission forever to affirm this opinion.

So lets go on an adventure and read Creature's iso.

Also, are postcaps even enforced? No, right?

If Sig and Creature are partnered, then I don't see any point in tutuu calling them out immediately.

I gave up on the Creature/Read ISOs idea. See you all later.

I had a sig case, and would not like to be ignored in all of this considering I was the first voter on the current wagon.

Creature's been in contention ever since D1. Who were their voters?

It doesn't matter.

None of it matters. Suppose they're both wolf. Now its just, which of them do the wolves not want us to hang.

Seanzie has claimed Creature is not zealot out of thin air.

In hindsight Jack's argument that Creature is not the zealot due to not having been bussed is so awful. Like I did say that Creature's been in contention for forever.
Sig has been in contention approximately never, and it reached its zenith when I convinced Seanzie to vote sig with me and probably somebody else in Mac/SPF.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:31 pm let's just say i have a bad feeling

You get to say you have a bad feeling when you actually engage with the game.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:32 pm also statistically creature isn't zealot

What probability do you have assigned to it. Do it properly, with Bayes Rule and everything.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:33 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:30 pm In hindsight Jack's argument that Creature is not the zealot due to not having been bussed is so awful. Like I did say that Creature's been in contention for forever.
Sig has been in contention approximately never, and it reached its zenith when I convinced Seanzie to vote sig with me and probably somebody else in Mac/SPF.
Regardless of Jack's argument, I just don't see any reasonable worlds where Creature is the zealot.

Based on what?

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:35 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:33 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:32 pm also statistically creature isn't zealot
What probability do you have assigned to it. Do it properly, with Bayes Rule and everything.
1/20 at least

So pretty good odds.

I'm just glad the activity spike means that I'm more confident that 1 of Sig/Creature is the correct vote.

Sig's entire demeanor is wolfy tho. I went back to check whether I still believe Sig/Dennis are unpartnered and is just the most pockety stuff.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:52 pm bereft changed his vote between creature and sig 20000 times man ive been watching. just watch this little fucking weasel change it at the last second and get the hammer. its lylo. i already gave u a rough time i wont do it again but man i cant trust u. i cant trust any of u.

:P

The other option is that Dennis is zealot and sig and Jack have been antispewing them, In that world Creature is town and idfk what the rest of team is doing.
Otherwise I don't see Dennis being wolf with sig.

Thank you for ruining whatever chance I had of being selfresolved before it even matters.

But in all seriousness I don't know, SPF/Falcon ?

Porscha/Falcon, and Tutuu was mostly right the entire time?

Nothing makes sense.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:03 pm Does Falcon/Seanzie fit there? I still don't fully believe Seanzie is townreading Falcon so strong that it remains unwavering. Falcon hasn't done shit today.

Them being wolf together would not be my first guess but hypothetically sure?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:05 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:30 pm In hindsight Jack's argument that Creature is not the zealot due to not having been bussed is so awful. Like I did say that Creature's been in contention for forever.
Sig has been in contention approximately never, and it reached its zenith when I convinced Seanzie to vote sig with me and probably somebody else in Mac/SPF.
In contention and never came close to being voted off EOD at all.

I stand by my statement about voting Sig over Creature for players in the POE being a scum claim.

Whats the point of going the full mile into bussing when there's been ML bait the last 3 days in a row.

I am not compromising on a Sabi townread, so go find someone else to replace them.

I'm currently in favor of worlds where Falcon is a wolf and namely this means Wilgy probably is just not one.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:15 pm oh god seanzie might be wolf

Wait why, cuz then I do a switcheroo and replace falcon with Seanze and Wilgy still isnt a wolf.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:16 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:08 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:03 pm Does Falcon/Seanzie fit there? I still don't fully believe Seanzie is townreading Falcon so strong that it remains unwavering. Falcon hasn't done shit today.
Them being wolf together would not be my first guess but hypothetically sure?
I'm assuming Falcon isn't mafia if Seanzie is town because if that's the case Seanzie's ego will take a more thorough pounding than ur mum does every night from the milkman.

Great to know.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:18 pm seanzie is pushing mech info

I am well aware and I thought this was a reason to townread them at a glance.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:25 pm wait no, seanzie probably town

Okay good because I have them as unpartnered with Wilgy/SPF/Falcon and was not going to have a fun time fitting Seanzie onto a team.

"(I’m also not super invested at this moment so like maybe I’m totally wrong)

"

I regret my life choices.

I absolutely hate tutuu/Kate/Wilgy/Creature worlds. The interactions in that is awful. Makes zero sense.

"Also I asked YOU in wolf chat to write me that post idk why you're trying to bring our other teammate spf into this" wtf

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