The Syndicate

I’m not real strong on that DrWilgy feel tbh

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:42 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:31 pm The reason Jack is mafia is because, even given he was in RVS mode later than everyone else, he decided to troll the game with every single post. When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect. This is a very common mafia technique and we should lunch him.

If you are not voting Jack or if you are voting with Jack you should feel less than stellar about yourself.
I don't think what you're saying here happened.

Where is Jack trolling? Where did he take heat for trolling? Where did he roll with it?

Read any of his posts.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:49 pm

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.

This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm
I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?

This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:07 pm Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.

This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings.

This is lolcatting,

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:06 pm well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:24 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:03 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:49 pm

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.
This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm
I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?
This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:07 pm Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.
This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:06 pm well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.

Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:59 pm
sig wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:10 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:52 pm
sig wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:44 pm They were just mafia together though so the odds are in our favor they’re not both mafia.
I mean, you could say this about anybody. There is the same chance that Roxy rolled mafia that you rolled mafia that Seanzie rolled mafia, and so on and so forth.
Something something statistical smart sounding. (I engaged in Tactical study prep during those classes so psh who knows) it sounds smart and right though so I’m sticking to it
Man I just got schooled by something that sounded smart and also related to statistics!

I'm just a freshman so no statistics for me yet, but I'm just saying that the chances of two people rolling mafia two games in a row is the same chances as player A and player B rolling maf in game one and player C and player D in game 2. Every mafia combination has the same chances as another so we can't just say "I rolled mafia last game so I'm civ this game". Also there's the chance the roles weren't randomized in one the games but meh. I've wrote way too much on this topic anyways.

In general, when people use poor logic such as this (Player x and Player Y were just mafia so what are the odds they are again?) they’re likely to be scum.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:03 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:24 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:03 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:49 pm

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.
This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm
I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?
This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:07 pm Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.
This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:06 pm well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.
Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.
I literally just told you that The argument that "Jack is only focusing serous attention Alison" makes sense to me, so we won't make progress in our conversation by hashing out points we agree on.

What I disagree with you about is your claim that Jack was only trolling (you now seem to concede that Jack did have some content), and that " When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect." I am still waiting to see where this happened, because I did not get this feeling at all, and it was the main issue I had with your post - this is a very specific thing you're claiming, and I don't see it and I am waiting on you to prove to me that you DID see something that you interpreted in that way.

I don’t agree that he actually has any non-trolling content other than perhaps his comment that Alison and I are not w/w. I don’t think any of his posts about Alison are genuine either. Basically I’m just seeing his entire gameplay as spouting nonsense nonstop.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:06 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:52 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:44 pm Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers
Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.

It's not nearly as bright as you might expect
I think this is mafia Falcon.

I believe there were multiple people calling Falcon town, and I’d like to see them come here and explain themselves.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:08 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:03 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:24 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:03 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:49 pm

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.
This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm
I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?
This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:07 pm Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.
This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:06 pm well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.
Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.
I literally just told you that The argument that "Jack is only focusing serous attention Alison" makes sense to me, so we won't make progress in our conversation by hashing out points we agree on.

What I disagree with you about is your claim that Jack was only trolling (you now seem to concede that Jack did have some content), and that " When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect." I am still waiting to see where this happened, because I did not get this feeling at all, and it was the main issue I had with your post - this is a very specific thing you're claiming, and I don't see it and I am waiting on you to prove to me that you DID see something that you interpreted in that way.
I don’t agree that he actually has any non-trolling content other than perhaps his comment that Alison and I are not w/w. I don’t think any of his posts about Alison are genuine either. Basically I’m just seeing his entire gameplay as spouting nonsense nonstop.

As someone who was voting Kate via sheep, I agree that Creature’s hop on felt pretty wolfy atm, but I don’t think it means anything. Mindmeld +1.2 Villa points for Mac

I quoted the wrong post derp that should have been in response to Mac^^^

Clearing not seeing eye to eye with Seanzie but I don’t think he’s arguing in bad faith. I might even make him my top town atp.

Seanzie, there’s no actual point in the game where Jack moves out of troll mode and into srs mode, he came in late, said a lot of nonsense, took heat from Alison, I voted him, and then he peaced out. That’s his whole game.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:19 pm

I don't really think we should elim Alison either, but if I did have to argue this, I'd say that even though Alison has recently been an often early yeet, that hasn't always been the case, and I think there are plenty of situations where wolf!Alison could go deep and endgame. Wolf!Falcon is not as good deep and will not endgame nearly as well as wolf!Alison.

If we were to agree they were both exactly rand I’d keep Alison over Falcon easily because she’s taking hard aggro stances that are forcing NAI responses from the thread.

Yes those posts are nonsense.

Mac, can you elaborate on why Alison is OK but her suspicions are based on horseshit/opportunistic? Like I kinda feel you but talk me through it.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:38 pm [VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

wolf claim

I’m down to vote Rondo independent of whatever he claimed (that I missed?) but I suppose we should let him clarify first.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:49 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:10 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:06 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:52 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:44 pm Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers
Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.

It's not nearly as bright as you might expect
I think this is mafia Falcon.
I believe there were multiple people calling Falcon town, and I’d like to see them come here and explain themselves.

This just drips w/ "why can't I get him lynched??" energy.

I mean, you don't even have a good reason at all that I've seen posted for why I'm wolf...something about my first post being the wolfiest you've ever seen is probably the post w/ the most substance you've had regarding my slot...and I don't know about anybody else, but that's pretty pretty weak.

Cuz' you were asked why, and I don't recall ever seeing an explanation.

Other people are more villagery.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:51 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:04 pm Hot take: Alison/Roxy is w/w.

Do I believe it? I don't know. But it is a hot take.
I love how seanzie hates me yet has the same reads as me at the same points in thread

This is pretty clearly not a serious read and you trying to pretend he has the same worldview as you is blatant mischaracterization. And of all things for you to comment on, this would appear to be a superfluous post.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:54 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:11 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:42 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:39 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:34 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:32 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:29 pm

Yeah, but it's D1...weird reason to SR him IMO
The same can be said to literally any wolfread rn. Gotta start somewhere.
No, that's not true. Lots of legit reasons to SR a player can & do emerge D1, but to SR a player just cuz you feel they have 0 wolves in a list of 3 is utter crap
Once again, no it isn’t. Pushing wrong world views is exactly what scum do.
@MacDougall
Baudib wasn't saying Wilgy had a wrong worldview he was managing the reads quality of the player he replied to. He made no comment on Wilgy.
Well, why don't we ask him? Cuz' given the context of that convo, coupled w/ the fact that Baudi has expressed Wilgy as a SR, then I think it's perfectly natural to assume that Baudi was saying that Wilgy had a bad world view because he's scum.

@Baudib1 what say you? Did you mean or do you believe that Wilgy has a wrong world view and that he's scum?

I dislike Wilgy for other reasons but I don’t have an opinion on his wolf leans list. But if someone lists wolf reads that you think are blatantly wrong, that is indeed a good reason to scumread them. This shouldn’t have to be explained frankly.

Conserving posts and will not respond to stupid questions that have obvious answers.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:14 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:31 pm Mac, can you elaborate on why Alison is OK but her suspicions are based on horseshit/opportunistic? Like I kinda feel you but talk me through it.
You misread. I'm saying suspicions towards her are those things.

ok

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:15 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:27 pm You town Tutuu mafia.
can I ask you to elaborate on both?
I literally said I don't know and then you asked me for gun to head. Now you want me to elaborate on reads you clearly asked me to snap based on feel. Therefore the answer is fucking obviously vibes isn't it. Jesus.

Rondo and falcon are both asking a lot of questions that are basically pointless. Could throw splinter into that category as well.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:17 pm Alison

Voters: sig, Dennis, Jackofhearts2005, Neon

This wagon is so bad we could prob nuke everyone in it

agree

Yes, Rondo is holding the game hostage by talking about literally everything but the Oracle issue.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:32 pm after that unclaim i can get to work making better wagons, firstly by abolishing literally every current wagon with 3 or above votes

I would just go about your business, no one is going to think Rondo is the Oracle. I agree that the current wagons are spectacularly bad.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:50 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 pm Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy

That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this
Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.

Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all

Bruh u cannot get me lynched.

First off it was me Creature and Alison and the town Oracle said she wanted to nuke the wagons so if you don’t think it can be a town POV take it up with our PR. Wilgy became a wagon because Lucy asked for it.

SPF:
I’ve never had any interest I pushing Seanzie

I get that you think you’re onto something with the Creature read and you may be correct but in a vacuum I think his play has been > rand villagery and I would probably be easier for him to like… not be like that. You could be right though, this isn’t something I’d hard press on D3 or something.

I think Jack is Uber wolfy
just decided to shade Alison and then make up reasons why as he went along. If you read his posts chronologically it might be easier to see this.

I agree with or have no opinion on the rest of your reads.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:00 pm Timezones are hard. Hard claim not quite gay?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:03 pm Lol we have 24 hours. Goodnight ya’ll.

Seanzie is going to come in and say these posts are super towny and not at all trolling

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:15 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:53 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:50 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 pm Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy

That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this
Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.

Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all
Bruh u cannot get me lynched.

First off it was me Creature and Alison and the town Oracle said she wanted to nuke the wagons so if you don’t think it can be a town POV take it up with our PR. Wilgy became a wagon because Lucy asked for it.
Going back to when you first said you were pocketed by Alison. Can you explain your thought process there in detail?

I think at that time there were 3-4 people saying I was town for ~ no reason and she was the only one who seemed towny to me.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:22 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:15 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:53 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:50 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 pm Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy

That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this
Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.

Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all
Bruh u cannot get me lynched.

First off it was me Creature and Alison and the town Oracle said she wanted to nuke the wagons so if you don’t think it can be a town POV take it up with our PR. Wilgy became a wagon because Lucy asked for it.
Going back to when you first said you were pocketed by Alison. Can you explain your thought process there in detail?
I think at that time there were 3-4 people saying I was town for ~ no reason and she was the only one who seemed towny to me.
Yes why?

TMI probably

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:46 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:26 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:22 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:15 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:53 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:50 pm

Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.

Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all
Bruh u cannot get me lynched.

First off it was me Creature and Alison and the town Oracle said she wanted to nuke the wagons so if you don’t think it can be a town POV take it up with our PR. Wilgy became a wagon because Lucy asked for it.
Going back to when you first said you were pocketed by Alison. Can you explain your thought process there in detail?
I think at that time there were 3-4 people saying I was town for ~ no reason and she was the only one who seemed towny to me.
Yes why?
TMI probably
Haha yeah I'm a wolf too but what's the real answer

C’mon bruh I know ur not a potato brain. I wasn’t serious that I was pocketed, I was expressing the fact that there were multiple people calling me town and it was likely at least 1 was TMIng but I felt that Alison’s read was genuine. I can’t really respond to more of these unimportant questions because I’m running out of posts and some nitwits are going to try to Lunch me tomorrow.

Like 10 times in this game this has happened:

Player A: the sky is blue
Baudib1: agree, it looks pretty fucking blue imo.
Wolfy McWolferson: it is impossible for any town to think the sky is blue, Vote Baudib1!

There’s only so much nonsense I can take.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:09 pm Here's the patented Mac rub.

A lot of people are less playing mafia with a town process and more throwing out thought bubbles and have perspectives that make my lip curl up and make me wish they were playing a different mafia game I'm not in. I begrudge nobody for suspecting or hating the play of these folks.

Wilgy
Jack
Neon
Tutuu
Seanzie
Falcon
Creature

Then there are people who are just like ... not doing much of anything and aren't really redeemable but for whatever reason it seems like there's a moratorium on suspecting them.

Roxy
Finger
Kate

Then there are some players who aren't doing much but they kinda town.

Bereft
Porscha
Dennis

And then there's everyone else. We shall call them "folks who appear to be playing a game of mafia and not a game of scrabble". I like all of them and if you are voting them ur a nerd.

If your name is in the top group and you are town please have a strong coffee, freshly evaluate the game and make some posts that are designed purposefully to be read and understood by a belligerent old townie person so I can stop hating your existence.

Thanks.

Good post 9/10 would read again.

I’d save Seanzie, Creature and maybe Tutuuu from the first group.

Roxy, Finger and Kate and everyone else can be removed with haste. Unfortunately that’s too many so some of them are town.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:23 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:07 am I like both the Alison and creature votes but would prefer Allison I think. We still have 24ish hours tjough so no rush
who are the mafia on each wagon?

Alison: sig, Dennis, Jackofhearts2005, Neon
Baudib1: tutuu, Seanzie, falcon45ca
Creature: RondoDimBuckle, lucy, MacDougall, staypositivefriend

Minor Wagons: Bereft, Baudib1, Creature, Alison, Wilgy

No Voters: fingersplints, Kate, Porscha, Roxy

The Alison wagon is sketchy AF.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:22 am I am back. lucy reminded me my posts are limited so I'll try to be more economical with them.

I think Dennis, sig, and falcon are all town.

Roxy's tilting is not town-indicative. You can certainly believe it is NAI if you want (I don't, the contradictions were convenient) but townreading someone who has documented temper issues (lucy had to talk with them about keeping cool in mafia games apparently) for blowing their top is silly.

Kate has done exactly what I said she would do and slid by without scrutiny. Everyone seems to POE her but nobody seems to want to pull the trigger.

I see SPF's case on Creature. I do not get any bad vibes from him personally but I think her points make sense. I am still more convinced on Roxy/Jack/Kate though.

Don't have any strong takes otherwise. Can elaborate reads if requested.

Guaranteed at least 1 mafia on me - case is nonsense and has been shot down by IC lucy, SPF and Mac. In normal circumstances that would mean the wagon disintegrates. That it has not suggests foul play. Jack is my top suspect there, Neon #2.

Let’s consolidate on Jack. I get the meta arguments for Creature being mafia but no one can realistically defend Jack’s play or his push on you.

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:23 am
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:53 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:50 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 pm Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy

That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this
Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.

Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all
Bruh u cannot get me lynched.

First off it was me Creature and Alison and the town Oracle said she wanted to nuke the wagons so if you don’t think it can be a town POV take it up with our PR. Wilgy became a wagon because Lucy asked for it.
You know PRs can be wrong right?

Ooooh nice, a bonafide wolfy post.

This exchange is about me saying that the wagons (me, Creature, Alison) with 3+ votes were bad and Falcon saying he doesn't see it as a town mindset, and me pointing out that the assertion came from Lucy (IC), which proves it is indeed a town mindset.
So your takeaway from that exchange is to double down and try to discredit me and Lucy and not to agree that Falcon's "i don't see that as a town mindset at all" is not provably false?Interesting.

Neon is wolfy for this ^ post and her vote on Alison.

Jack is an obvwolf for posting 100% nonsense and trolls and wolfily pushing Alison, which makes me think Alison is probably at least partially correct in pushing Kate/Roxy.

Wilgy is an obvwolf for asking pointless questions and adding zero original thought to the thread.

Oh and Rondo can be town because I think the way he handled the not-unclaiming Oracle un'cc was actually pretty towny if you're an experienced player, and that's probably a bad reason but I think it makes sense.

I kinda want Mac, Lucy, SPF and Alison to get on the same page and lead the town and then I'll convince them to vote for Jack.

If you’re keeping score at home, none of Neon’s responses were towny but like her reads might be TWTBAW?

Idk I’m just gonna vote whoever Lucy wants in all likelihood.

Tutuu, I demand you ISO Jack and quote one post that you think has genuine thought. If you think Alison is likely torn you should probably think his posts are a steaming pile of garbage (they are) and that he will flip wolf (he will).

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:06 am I decided to fact check myself because I often internally confuse games I played with Alison and Anne internally and mix them up.

Now that I've done that I've concluded the game I was thinking of was indeed with Alison and so I feel comfortable in saying a great majority of my problem with Alison this game stems from her treatment of Roxy and how it has internally pinged me as a recreation of the way I was treated by Alison in King of the Hill mafia. It's possible that maybe I would've been treated similarly if Alison was in fact town in that game but I haven't felt like Alison's attempts to engage Roxy were done to solve Roxy or find common ground or understanding I've felt that Alison's approach to Roxy was designed to illicit a negative emotional response that she could than paint as a wolfy response in a very similar way to how I felt Alison was attempting to illicit a negative response instead of try to understand or engage or solve me in King of the Hill.

I do not think that approach is towny. If I'm wrong I'd love for people to help me see where my thoughts are diverging from reality.

I think it’s very possible it could be standard T/T spat and/or NAI for either as I think there’s a serious playstyle conflict between the two and Alison’s response to Roxy’s AtE is somewhat policy driven.

In a vacuum I don’t think many (if any) mafia take this aggro an approach to early game.

I think we actually need 2 good wagons because the GF cannot be chopped.

So we have a lot of work to do to get to two good wagons.
@lucy @MacDougall @Alison

Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:16 am
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:15 am Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.
Amazing response. I spend the last hour reading through your ISO and giving a considered approach and you meme at me in response. Interesting. Not town.

I can’t really respond to your thoughts because you misinterpreted everything, including the fact that I said you were town.

I’ll take one small thing, which is that Falcon did not hit the nail on the head when he said my mindset isn’t town because I pointed out I was echoing the opinion of our IC, who is town. So take that under consideration and blow up the rest of your post because you’re being (perhaps willfully) obtuse.

I am not going to bother responding to any more of your nonsense.

Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.

@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

Dennis:
Thanks for your thoughts and thanks for not voting Alison.

I’m inferring that Neon is an experienced player so I find it hard to believe she believes some of these arguments she’s making about Alison. Alison’s casing of Roxy was pretty tame, it’s hard to imagine Neon hasn’t seen worse than every single game of mafia ever.
It doesn’t seem to me that she is considering alignments and just trying to highlight the worst of people.

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)
I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:15 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:13 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)
I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?
Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.
Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:21 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:18 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:15 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:13 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)
I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?
Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.
Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.
Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.
You are frustrating.

Sure but you can’t actually articulate how or why I’m wrong.
Let’s say we agree that Alison’s wolf equity is non-zero (I would in fact agree), it’s impossible that you don’t fundamentally understand why she’s not a D1 yeet. If you want to fear kill her on D3, by all means.

I know that you know this.

To all towns:
Fundamentally the stagnation on high activity poster wagons (me/Allison) and the noted lack of interest in the jack wagon even while strong town voices (me, Mac, Alison, Lucy) are making cases on him should be triggering your wolfdar.
If Jack were pure there is enough town coverage for wolves to slip in among us (there aren’t multiple wolves very often in me, Mac/Alison/Lucy) to push for a Jack yeet if he’s town.

glgl

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:27 pm
Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:31 pm Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.

@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.
okay

can you sell me on a jack vote without using meta?

His posts are howling and lack any genuine solving.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:43 pm i swear to god that i saw a post from neon earlier where she asked me for my opinion on whether alison is playing like she played in king of the hill mafia and i can't find it and i feel like i'm having a stroke

but @Neon , assuming you did actually ask me that question,i don't really remember the specifics of how alison treated you in KOTH well enough to make a direct meta comparison

but one thing i will say is that while alison tends to be very confident and assertive as both alignments, i've noticed that she tends to be more stubborn and less willing to change her mind about certain reads as mafia, including the KOTH game. so, when i'm trying to read alison, there are a few primary things i'm looking at:

A. her results. this is one of the best metrics to read alison by. if alison kills or pushes on wolves within the first dayphase or two, she is usually a villager. if she doesn't, she is usually a wolf. there are exceptions to this rule, and it all needs to be taken contextually, but results are probably the best way to get an accurate read on a player like alison

B. her agenda (or, her flexibility). alison as a wolf has a very specific idea for how she wants games to play out, which means that she tends to be less open minded as scum and much less likely to change reads without being specifically prompted to. i think this is a good metric to read most players by, but it particularly fits for alison's playstyle

so, it's too early to judge alison by A, but if i'm judging her by B, i think she looks OK enough. i thought it was kind of towny that she randomly said that kate is a hard villager who townslipped when i don't see an obvious incentive for her to randomly change her mind like that as mafia

if alison is lining up kate for a mischop as mafia then i don't get why she would suddenly shift her positioning when kate was still being widely POE'd. if alison was lining up kate for a bus then i doubt alison would change her mind in such a jarring and blatant way. alison shifting her positioning in an unstrategic way is the biggest towntell she's had all day today

im not really confident in my ability to read alison but i thought it might be helpful to show how im thinking about her rn

Good post and the point about her change of mind on Kate is excellent. I’m not self-pressing on Alison so can you and Lucy figure out a better target?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm
What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?
i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves

I would guess you are probably correct.

I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.

Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.

Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.

Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:56 pm The thing giving me pause about my gamestate, and humouring flipping my evaluation upside down, is Alison and Baudib shielding Creature in case that wasn't obvious.

Firstly, I still think SPF's case on Creature has been the most thorough and well reasoned argument anyone has made the entire phase. On top of that SPF has been possibly the towniest person in the game. In spite of that, she's been largely ignored in favour of this repetitive argument that's like the universe vs. Alison. I also just don't think Creature has been towny.

Is there a world in which Alison, Baudib, SPF and Creature are all town.

SPF and Mac would need to be wrong about Creature. Corrected by two players who are largely suspected by a huge swathe of players. I guess it's plausible in that way.

The question one moustache is ... is Creature really towny enough for Alison and Baudib to be this defensive of him? Or is their defense shielding a partner? Or is it TMI?

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @falcon45ca What do you three think of Creature?

I’ll burn my last post on this because it’s worth it and I know you will consider it instead of just nodding and continue on just saying things…

I made this case before but I don’t doubt that Creature has W equity and you/SPF’s meta-driven reasons for sussing him are ~ fine. I’ll still argue that in this player list, Creature is super likely to be more valuable as town and is not a particularly dangerous late wolf IME (some notable exceptions to the contrary).

Still I would argue, as I would argue in the case of Alison, he has been fairly townsided and not trying to actively muck up the game state by saying nonsensical things the way ~ 5-8 other people are. Like you yourself literally had to make a post explaining why listening to the town IC on D1 is a reasonable idea; you cannot argue that Creature at a bare minimum operates at a level of competency far above this line.
***********
To all the people giving Lucy grief: It’s D1 in a fairly large game, trust me your reads probably aren’t great and there’s a high likelihood that you’ve agreed with and internalized Wolf-spread agenda. You should at least consider what she is saying since you know her motives are pure.

Let’s try to play better, this D1 was a dumpster fire.

I’ll be voting with the Lucy/SPF group.

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