Return to “[END] Literal WWerecreatures Invade Syndicate Zoo: An SDN Crossover Game”
Hmm
I understand Falcon's perspective here. Zenge frames his actions in a very favorable light/ Falcon does not. I don't think either of them are reading each other properly here. Falcon's objection is that Zenge didn't follow through on his objection to the Miranda wagon quickly enough. I don't care about that. But I get why it's a thing that Day 1 Falcon seized upon. Zenge's objection stems from his own perspective about his actions, and does not seem to take into account what Falcon is actually objecting to.Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:05 pm Commencing Operation Appease Zenge. Here is a Falcon ISO.
Falcon is a pot stirrer. He says provocative things to put direct pressure on people. Here we see him getting a head start by doing that to Dennis.Spoiler: show
Here he does the same thing, targeting Wilgy.Spoiler: show
After wilgy responds jokingly to Falcon's initial pressure, Falcon comments on Zenge commenting on the Miranda wagon. This is actually a more reasonable post than the previous two, and is not purely provocative.Spoiler: show
This one is more provocative. This is the same thing Falcon did to Dennis and Wilgy earlier. He is casting a wide net, if nothing else.Spoiler: showThis one is followed up by a vote. Noted.Spoiler: show
The first escalation of The Conflict. This is not out of bounds for Falcon's shtick. He is squeezing Zenge to see what comes out. Maybe a bit more tightly than Dennis or Wilgy before. But that is likely more to do with the way Zenge reacted than him being singled out or anything.Spoiler: show
Another provocative statement, this time directed toward Santy.Spoiler: show
Some more back-and-forth with Santy. Falcon's tone is notably less antagonistic than with Zenge. But I can easily attribute that to Falcon matching the energy of those around him. He is still putting pressure on Santy here, his tone is just more reserved. I would also describe Santy's tone as more reserved than Zenge's.Spoiler: show
Falcon and Zenge continue to butt heads. I do not agree with Zenge's interpretation of Falcon's actions. It is very reasonable for Falcon to assume that Zenge's initial objection to the Miranda wagon was the timing of it. In fact, I struggle to identify a different interpretation.Spoiler: show
But Falcon's response is similarly nitpicky. "Is it strange or is it scummy?" is a reach. But that's still within Falcon's shtick here. This does not need to mean that Falcon is town. It just means that I am reading his words here as being intentionally provocative so as to get a strong reaction out of Zenge. Boy did he succeed at that.
I do not like this post, especially in light of Scotty's flip. This is not antagonistic or provocative Falcon. This is just Falcon shading a player and undermining SVS' town read on Scotty.Spoiler: show
I take this as an accusation that Zenge is suspicious for objecting too much to Falcon's initial pokes. I can see why Falcon might feel that way. Zenge is moving the goal posts a bit here. As I've said, it's not unreasonable for Falcon to have assumed that the entirety of Zenge's initial objection was the speed of the Miranda wagon. Zenge is only now (as far as their exchange goes) introducing new wrinkles to it. I do not think that needs to reflect poorly on Zenge. But I do think it undermines his argument against Falcon.Spoiler: show
We are now going in circles. Day 1 noise.Spoiler: show
I do not understand this objection to Zenge's posts.Spoiler: show
Oh. I see. When it's phrased that way, I get it. I don't agree with that interpretation of Zenge's posts though.Spoiler: show
Falcon announces his intention to move on from the Zenge argument. I am unclear on exactly how he feels about Zenge at this point.Spoiler: show
Falcon then directs a couple posts at/about Dennis and Mayo. Following through on his intention to move on.Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
No there is a lot of resistance, with arguments essentially down to: “this is just falcons being falcons”. I don’t even understand why falcons is even being townread by some Syndicate players
I still mentally think SVS = PSV + SAR for some reasonSloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:54 pmOh. Yes, I thought that was a SVS post.tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:50 pmalright cool, you probably misspelled and meant to type SAR not SVS in that context thenSloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:49 pmThis wasn’t meant to suggest that you are not town. Just that, in a world where one of you is mafia, the other is not.tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:47 pmis that it? only not partnered? u cant find me as town yet? despite never seeing my scum game and not having the fear?Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:40 pmWilgy.SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:41 am Did tutuu sub in? I went to go add them to my village lean pile but don't have them on my sheet. Who do I need to take off?
SVS and DrTutuu are not partnered.
sorry if this is a bit egotistical but could u explain why?
im asking u specifically because i think syndicators who have a decent experience with me and never seen me wolf should find me as obv town insta
mac has the paranoia of my scumgame but even despite that he instantly found me here
You are both town.
i thought that u meant SVS SVS not SAR SVS and that read was independent of ur reply to SAR so thats why i found it odd (not that ur scumreading me, but that ur not townreading me)
(but yes everything is clear now)
How are you reading mayos? Same question for @tutuuZenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:08 pmYeah it’s not a read I was in favor ofpotentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:06 pmAwww ouchtutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:39 am i lied (for the last time i swear i need to do work)
colors ar epretty
seanzie
mac
neon
svs
dennis
lawpy
zenge
SAR (riding on PSV mafia)
sloonei
miranda
PSV
i originally colored PSV orange but then i thought naw fam fuck that PUSSY ASS SHIT u are getting the RED COLOR thats right boyyyy im seeing red im like a bull and ur like that matador u trynna finesse me but boiii u dont know who u dealing with RAF RAF RAF RAFA R FRAFARA BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLHORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN
Ok i’m good with village reading you. Consider me severely pocketed if you’re a wolf because this post is great.
Over at zelda forums iirc
Was the Syndicate read on falcons uniformly town? Because iirc, Neons was wolfreading falcons before townreading him (still confused what prompted the change)?santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:02 am Zenge, I think that anyone just blindly following you on hyperfocused mode while ignoring all the more likely to be correct townreads from people that know falcon more are more likely to be wolves. Like, I think that shows a lack lf nuance and them goimg for an easy vote qithout questioning much, just 'following zenge' is a good enough excuse.
Even if falcon is a wolf (unlikely) , I think you also have a Wolf voting with you tbh
Hmm that looks more like a problem of confirmation biasNateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:08 amLawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:41 amCould you show me where he twisted people’s words? There have been reports in past games of Zenges being stretchy but i’m not sure that’s what you’re referring to here.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:30 amAnd my problem wasn't really with the core of Zenge's argument, it was with him twisting people's words when he was pushing it. Does he do that as town?Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:54 amZenges vs falcons looked pretty straightforward to me. Zenges is tunneling on falcons because he asserts falcons is wolfing and found falcons’s responses to be very evasive. He pretty much took a hardline stance and doubled down on his falcons tunnel. That trajectory looks villagey to me.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:48 amMighty isn't outside of his town meta, his posts always read as carefully crafted. In the last game when he was wolfing I correctly called him out on day one, because he had a habit of picking apart other people's reads without actually offering his own perspective. I haven't seen him do the same thing here. He's relatively new and that's a "tell" that can be fixed, but I lean him town for now. The only thing that gives me pause is his Scotty vote looks bad, both in the wagon position and that his reasoning was pretty much just echoing other people's "role fishing" sus.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:17 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to know how you feel abouts slots other than Dennis, particularly the likes of Falcon, Marmot, Creature and Mightyrunner7.
I'll be back later, I expect receipts.
Creature is POE because there's no reason for him not to be, I wasn't interested in him yesterday because in my other Syndicate game he low-posted as town so the "volume tell" wasn't convincing for me. But his only votes prior to Scotty were a naked 2nd vote on miranda and a naked 2nd vote on me. He said his miranda vote was because he was least impressed by her on that page, but her only recent content was a day 0 test vote. And that's been about the extent of his solving energy.
Marmot was mostly missing, I remember an early wolf lean of Dennis and then EOD. I didn't really vibe with Marmot's EOD reads, for one thing they were wolfreading me and have carried that into today, and I know that's incorrect. But they were also speculating a Scotty/Santy world, which I thought would be odd positioning to take if they knew Scotty would flip town. But it could have also been a way to place Scotty in a plausible wolf team to justify a vote (which is what Marmot did shortly after).
Falcon/Zenge I have the most turbulence around. I've seen town Zenge make correct pushes that were laser-focused that I didn't understand at all, so I pay attention when he gets this locked in even if I don't completely get it. And I thought falcon was sketchy early on. But the way Z's pushed it has been really twisty, especially his interaction with other people about it when they disagree. And on falcon's end I know he has a scummy playstyle in general, he was misyeeted in the other game I played here. If they were both scum but different factions it'd explain everything tbh
It’s the responses to the Zenges vs falcons battle that appear like an attempt to shut down the discussion that look concerning, since it makes me think Zenges might be right and wolves are trying to get the heat off of falcons by diverting attention elsewhere
I see Sloonei pointed to a couple. I was also thinking of things like this, where he coopts a point Seanzie was making and uses it to support his own push:
Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:37 pmI think this is another point in the Falcon is very likely a wolf column.Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:32 pmI don't see what you're pushing here. I agree that I get no vibe of a SR on Neon, but I also don't really get a "townread" vibe. Instead Neon said you're acting funny, and someone who doesn't know you well, and likely assumes Neon does, took that to heart.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:24 pmpotentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:36 pm @Sloonei What do you think of Neon (I think) saying falcon feels OOC?potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:24 pm Anyway, I find the split on whether falcon is playing out of character or not to be an interesting one. sloonei says no, neon says yes. Other Syndicats, what's your opinion?potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:27 pmI'm thinking about it. Particularly interested in Neon agreeing he's not acting normal. Trying to source opinions from other Syndicats to see their opinions
@Seanzie It's reasonable to assume looking at the way PVS keeps referring back to Neon specifically, and the tone in general, that they're not SR her slot.
Or perhaps I'm wrong and PVS is trying to get a read on Neon based off their read on me? But it doesn't feel that way at all, it feels like PVS is TR Neon, or at the very least has her above null
They look like they're trying to make a meta-based push on you without having the meta to do so, so they're citing the sources of their meta. Nothing big about this.
This push on PSV is illogical in its foundation. Seanzie spelled it out perfectly.
I think Falcons’s responses to Zenges push on him is what’s driving the engine for the Zenges tunnel on Falcons and why he kept railing against you for apparently defending FalconsSloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:05 amI'm specifically referring to the initial disagreement between Falcon and Zenge. By "Day 1 noise" I meant something similar to what other people mean when they say "random voting stage". That is, I thought Falcon was just doing his typical game-opening play which would happen regardless of alignment. Zenge's reaction to it looked like a player who'd never seen Falcon before. That was why I chimed in to begin with, and I spent much of the rest of Day 1 trying to reiterate that point.
Falcon has been underwhelming since those opening moments.
Slooneis pls this is pretty much the problem i’m facing because that discussion is productive, and your thoughts that falcons behavior being in line with his meta are actually important, so i don’t understand how engaging in this isn’t productive for the thread.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:31 pmI do not plan to get involved in the arguments you are directing toward falcon. That is not a defensive impulse. It's just not something that I view as productive for me or the thread. All I will say is this: the specific things that you object to about his actions do not strike me as being out of the ordinary for falcon.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:25 pmAre you going to address the merits of my argument against Falcon, and his refusals to answer my question, or are you going to “disengage from this nonsense”?Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:15 pmYour posts read as more combative than they need to be.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:09 pm Your defense of Falcon is noted, Sloonei.
Make no mistake, I am reading and monitoring the rest of the game.
I also made note of the fact that in your defense of Falcon, you refused to actually talk about the merits of what I was saying and the complete lack of merits of what Falcon was saying.
Instead you dismissed my wolf read by saying “you know Falcon better” and tried to say “he’s just antagonistic”, and followed that up with “let’s talk about something else…”
If Falcon does flip wolf, you’re 100% next for the way you handled this.
Your repeated misattributed quotations suggest to me that you are projecting a certain reading onto my posts which does not exist. I am simply trying to provide context about how falcon usually engages with the thread early on in games.
Could you please clarify what you’re referring to as Day 1 noise here?Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:24 pmTruthfully, I do not have anything to say about the content itself. It is Day 1 noise to me, and that is fine. The game needs Day 1 noise. This is more a product of how I go about the game than anything else. These sorts of arguments are not helpful to me as arguments. It is useful as content, though. I find it helpful in that it has established a baseline reading for both you and falcon. It can also be useful later on as things develop.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:03 pm @Sloonei
I’d like you to for once, give your thoughts on the merits of the argument here.
I said “This is how I imagine wolves would approach the game and so I’m looking for people who are doing that”. Falcon responded to that specifically by saying this isn’t a “towny mindset”.
I asked Flacon how that’s not a towny mindset, and Falcon REFUSED to answer and tried to deflect and change the subject.
I asked AGAIN, and Falcon responded by falling back to the complaint that I wasn’t asking the people voting for Miranda questions. WHICH IS NOT AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION.
I want you Sloonei, to talk about the actual content here. Not some hand waving about how “this just seems like flacon to you”.
I want you to respond with thoughts about the actual content here.
But it was never my hope or intention to get involved in a discussion of the merits of your point of view or his. If you must know my thoughts on the content, they are as follows: you two are engaged in a Generic Day 1 Argument. I encourage you to continue to the extent that you feel is necessary in order to be satisfied with your read on falcon. But do not expect me to participate in it. I'll flesh out my reads on you two in my own ways.
Slooneis i’m referring to this exchangeSloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:05 pmI would prefer to see how both of you respond to other things in this thread.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:03 pmThis is not about picking a fight or provoking a reaction.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:50 pm"What he does" is pick a fight with a player or a couple of players very early in the game. He'll provoke them and do his darndest to get a big reaction out of folks regardless of whether or not he's right, or is making "logical" sense. My understanding of the play is that he does it to create action.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:42 pmOkay, let’s circle back to “This is what he does”.
Because that’s a very generic dismissal of my read and my push. You’re using the fact that you have familiarity with Falcon to completely dismiss my very valid reasons for finding this player to be a wolf.
So with regards to your “This is what he does”, please, I’d like you to be as thorough as possible in your explanation.
How his play develops from there might vary from game to game. But this is the typical opening move from falcon.
I asked him a very simple question, very concisely, twice. The first time he realized he didn’t have a good answer because he was full of it and tried to just walk away from the conversation. The second time he tried to obfuscate and redirect attention, still refusing to admit he was wrong or answer the question.
Coupled with everything else he’s done on thread, this is a wolf.
I’m not letting this go.
I mentioned about this earlier:
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:47 amIt’s the trajectory that makes me wary, it looks like you’re trying to diplomatically resolve the zenges vs falcons battle by trying to nudge attention away from falcons. Wolf!Jays pulled off this similarly by nudging me diplomatically towards villagers in a recent game we played.Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:29 amWhat you're seeing there is just similar playstyles. There has been a running meme on the Syndicate for years that Jay and I are the same person. I alluded to it in my very first post of this game. That "diplomatic role" that's giving you pause is just a facet of how I (and Jay) play the game. It is not alignment-indicative.Lawpy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:52 pm Slooneis looks to be playing a sort of a diplomatic role here which i’m thinking. I know wolf!Jays did the same which admittedly blindsided me so i’m a little wary when i see diplomatic stances/posting styles. It’s looking like a subtle nudge towards (or away) from his players of interest
Oh whoops sorry, i’m still looking for a vote tracker here though. Besides end of day screenshots of pollsMacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:19 am @Lawpy you have to vote in the poll. The vote tags are just for calling out and tracking votes.
Marmot is a better vote than sloonei I feel.
Could you show me where he twisted people’s words? There have been reports in past games of Zenges being stretchy but i’m not sure that’s what you’re referring to here.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:30 amAnd my problem wasn't really with the core of Zenge's argument, it was with him twisting people's words when he was pushing it. Does he do that as town?Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:54 amZenges vs falcons looked pretty straightforward to me. Zenges is tunneling on falcons because he asserts falcons is wolfing and found falcons’s responses to be very evasive. He pretty much took a hardline stance and doubled down on his falcons tunnel. That trajectory looks villagey to me.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:48 amMighty isn't outside of his town meta, his posts always read as carefully crafted. In the last game when he was wolfing I correctly called him out on day one, because he had a habit of picking apart other people's reads without actually offering his own perspective. I haven't seen him do the same thing here. He's relatively new and that's a "tell" that can be fixed, but I lean him town for now. The only thing that gives me pause is his Scotty vote looks bad, both in the wagon position and that his reasoning was pretty much just echoing other people's "role fishing" sus.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:17 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to know how you feel abouts slots other than Dennis, particularly the likes of Falcon, Marmot, Creature and Mightyrunner7.
I'll be back later, I expect receipts.
Creature is POE because there's no reason for him not to be, I wasn't interested in him yesterday because in my other Syndicate game he low-posted as town so the "volume tell" wasn't convincing for me. But his only votes prior to Scotty were a naked 2nd vote on miranda and a naked 2nd vote on me. He said his miranda vote was because he was least impressed by her on that page, but her only recent content was a day 0 test vote. And that's been about the extent of his solving energy.
Marmot was mostly missing, I remember an early wolf lean of Dennis and then EOD. I didn't really vibe with Marmot's EOD reads, for one thing they were wolfreading me and have carried that into today, and I know that's incorrect. But they were also speculating a Scotty/Santy world, which I thought would be odd positioning to take if they knew Scotty would flip town. But it could have also been a way to place Scotty in a plausible wolf team to justify a vote (which is what Marmot did shortly after).
Falcon/Zenge I have the most turbulence around. I've seen town Zenge make correct pushes that were laser-focused that I didn't understand at all, so I pay attention when he gets this locked in even if I don't completely get it. And I thought falcon was sketchy early on. But the way Z's pushed it has been really twisty, especially his interaction with other people about it when they disagree. And on falcon's end I know he has a scummy playstyle in general, he was misyeeted in the other game I played here. If they were both scum but different factions it'd explain everything tbh
It’s the responses to the Zenges vs falcons battle that appear like an attempt to shut down the discussion that look concerning, since it makes me think Zenges might be right and wolves are trying to get the heat off of falcons by diverting attention elsewhere
Zenges was pretty clear and consistent in his push on falcons, and falcons responded evasively. Apart from a falcons meta that received mixed messages from Syndicate players, i’m not sure how this exchange makes falcons look villagey.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:24 amSo this all depends on falcon being a wolf? Sloonei is then suspicious for trying to divert attention, and Mayo is then suspicious for defending Sloonei?Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:54 amZenges vs falcons looked pretty straightforward to me. Zenges is tunneling on falcons because he asserts falcons is wolfing and found falcons’s responses to be very evasive. He pretty much took a hardline stance and doubled down on his falcons tunnel. That trajectory looks villagey to me.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:48 amMighty isn't outside of his town meta, his posts always read as carefully crafted. In the last game when he was wolfing I correctly called him out on day one, because he had a habit of picking apart other people's reads without actually offering his own perspective. I haven't seen him do the same thing here. He's relatively new and that's a "tell" that can be fixed, but I lean him town for now. The only thing that gives me pause is his Scotty vote looks bad, both in the wagon position and that his reasoning was pretty much just echoing other people's "role fishing" sus.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:17 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to know how you feel abouts slots other than Dennis, particularly the likes of Falcon, Marmot, Creature and Mightyrunner7.
I'll be back later, I expect receipts.
Creature is POE because there's no reason for him not to be, I wasn't interested in him yesterday because in my other Syndicate game he low-posted as town so the "volume tell" wasn't convincing for me. But his only votes prior to Scotty were a naked 2nd vote on miranda and a naked 2nd vote on me. He said his miranda vote was because he was least impressed by her on that page, but her only recent content was a day 0 test vote. And that's been about the extent of his solving energy.
Marmot was mostly missing, I remember an early wolf lean of Dennis and then EOD. I didn't really vibe with Marmot's EOD reads, for one thing they were wolfreading me and have carried that into today, and I know that's incorrect. But they were also speculating a Scotty/Santy world, which I thought would be odd positioning to take if they knew Scotty would flip town. But it could have also been a way to place Scotty in a plausible wolf team to justify a vote (which is what Marmot did shortly after).
Falcon/Zenge I have the most turbulence around. I've seen town Zenge make correct pushes that were laser-focused that I didn't understand at all, so I pay attention when he gets this locked in even if I don't completely get it. And I thought falcon was sketchy early on. But the way Z's pushed it has been really twisty, especially his interaction with other people about it when they disagree. And on falcon's end I know he has a scummy playstyle in general, he was misyeeted in the other game I played here. If they were both scum but different factions it'd explain everything tbh
It’s the responses to the Zenges vs falcons battle that appear like an attempt to shut down the discussion that look concerning, since it makes me think Zenges might be right and wolves are trying to get the heat off of falcons by diverting attention elsewhere
Zenges vs falcons looked pretty straightforward to me. Zenges is tunneling on falcons because he asserts falcons is wolfing and found falcons’s responses to be very evasive. He pretty much took a hardline stance and doubled down on his falcons tunnel. That trajectory looks villagey to me.NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:48 amMighty isn't outside of his town meta, his posts always read as carefully crafted. In the last game when he was wolfing I correctly called him out on day one, because he had a habit of picking apart other people's reads without actually offering his own perspective. I haven't seen him do the same thing here. He's relatively new and that's a "tell" that can be fixed, but I lean him town for now. The only thing that gives me pause is his Scotty vote looks bad, both in the wagon position and that his reasoning was pretty much just echoing other people's "role fishing" sus.MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:17 pm @NateTheLesser I would like to know how you feel abouts slots other than Dennis, particularly the likes of Falcon, Marmot, Creature and Mightyrunner7.
I'll be back later, I expect receipts.
Creature is POE because there's no reason for him not to be, I wasn't interested in him yesterday because in my other Syndicate game he low-posted as town so the "volume tell" wasn't convincing for me. But his only votes prior to Scotty were a naked 2nd vote on miranda and a naked 2nd vote on me. He said his miranda vote was because he was least impressed by her on that page, but her only recent content was a day 0 test vote. And that's been about the extent of his solving energy.
Marmot was mostly missing, I remember an early wolf lean of Dennis and then EOD. I didn't really vibe with Marmot's EOD reads, for one thing they were wolfreading me and have carried that into today, and I know that's incorrect. But they were also speculating a Scotty/Santy world, which I thought would be odd positioning to take if they knew Scotty would flip town. But it could have also been a way to place Scotty in a plausible wolf team to justify a vote (which is what Marmot did shortly after).
Falcon/Zenge I have the most turbulence around. I've seen town Zenge make correct pushes that were laser-focused that I didn't understand at all, so I pay attention when he gets this locked in even if I don't completely get it. And I thought falcon was sketchy early on. But the way Z's pushed it has been really twisty, especially his interaction with other people about it when they disagree. And on falcon's end I know he has a scummy playstyle in general, he was misyeeted in the other game I played here. If they were both scum but different factions it'd explain everything tbh
It’s the trajectory that makes me wary, it looks like you’re trying to diplomatically resolve the zenges vs falcons battle by trying to nudge attention away from falcons. Wolf!Jays pulled off this similarly by nudging me diplomatically towards villagers in a recent game we played.Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:29 amWhat you're seeing there is just similar playstyles. There has been a running meme on the Syndicate for years that Jay and I are the same person. I alluded to it in my very first post of this game. That "diplomatic role" that's giving you pause is just a facet of how I (and Jay) play the game. It is not alignment-indicative.Lawpy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:52 pm Slooneis looks to be playing a sort of a diplomatic role here which i’m thinking. I know wolf!Jays did the same which admittedly blindsided me so i’m a little wary when i see diplomatic stances/posting styles. It’s looking like a subtle nudge towards (or away) from his players of interest
It’s his defense of Slooneis that raises eyebrowsNateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:00 amWhy Mayo? I don't really remember what his response to the Zenge/falcon stuff was.Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:56 amI think i’m more interested in slooneis and mayos from the way they responded to your falcons pushZenge wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:55 pmCan I interest you in a Falcon vote?santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:54 pm Someone summarize me the cases on Scotty and Creature?
Without seeing anything I think its more likely that Creature is a hit because in my mind they tend to obtown more and have more votes from people of the same community
Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:55 pmGet out of here with your calm and reasoning.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 pmI think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:00 pm You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.
I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.
Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.
I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.
I still expect an answer here.
You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.
Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.
I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.
Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.
Ty i appreciate the effort. I’m going to mull over this a bitDennis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:00 amalrighty @Lawpy I don't care enough anymoreDennis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:52 pmI'm not ignoring you I swear, I'm gonna go find the posts one secondLawpy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:43 pmInteresting point about mighty because i have him in neutralsDennis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:57 pmAhfalcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:49 pmDennis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:20 pmWhen did you say this because I don't think you haveSportPonies wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:49 am
Stop twisting my words. I said you’re being weird. Not for asking. You’re just being weird. In general.SportPonies wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 amI already said I thought her tone was sus. I don’t just snapvote someone I like for funsies unless it’s dubz
Why you bein weird?
First time was here I believe, couple other times afterward
I was gonna say ponies felt scummy because that post felt like OMGUS but I guess I missed that
(in response to your previous post):
Seanzie is townlean because an interesting pattern I've noticed is that he doesn't say "I'd elim this." nearly as often, or at all, as scum than he does town
One thing that caught my eye was the sudden swooning over mightyrunner? Like sure they looked towny I guess, but there was like 3 to 5 people who all townread them and it felt like there had to be a wolf in there trying to hide amongst the crowd
Could you refresh me who exactly townread him?
I could only find 2, coincidentally scotty and AM, both dead townies but I swear there was more
Could you kindly direct me where? I’m mostly caught up but dyas post on slooneis was indirect - in agreement with PSV/pshelty’s reasoning mainlyMacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:10 pmHave you read your predecessors ISO? You have the benefit of knowing that it was pure town thought so it would be well advised to at least review it and put some stuck in their reads as Dya is an s-tier town player.
I try to respect my predecessor’s views but I’m not finding the slooneis iso you’re mentioning.
Explain gently why you’re townreading mighty and nates plspotentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 7:50 pm Town lean:
Zenge
SAR
Santy
mighty
Nate
????
Lawpy
Less of a town lean:
Miranda
Mayo
Genny
Hmm, i actually agree with this reasoning here. Going to thinkSloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:01 pm I can read some of Marmot's posts from End of Day 1 as a mafia member looking for a place to park their vote, rather than a town player making an earnest effort to solve. Here are a couple about Scotty in particular that stood out:
The first one feels more convoluted than it needs to be, as though Marmot's seeking out his own justification to place a vote on a wagon that's already taking off. The second is full of language that suggests Marmot has no faith in the Scotty wagon, but is resigned to joining it anyway. I also feel like his justification for choosing Scotty over Creature is weak.Spoiler: show
I could support this.MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:23 pm[VOTE: Marmot] aubergineMarmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:00 pmGTH wolfsantygrass wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:58 pmMarmot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:57 pmsantygrass wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:55 pm You really think I forget about a game this hard when a partner would be leading huh
Don't make me say the words again.
Quick GTH what is your read on Creature
But also I don't won't to chop him today for :hand_wave: irl stuff or something
I think i’m more interested in slooneis and mayos from the way they responded to your falcons pushZenge wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:55 pmCan I interest you in a Falcon vote?santygrass wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:54 pm Someone summarize me the cases on Scotty and Creature?
Without seeing anything I think its more likely that Creature is a hit because in my mind they tend to obtown more and have more votes from people of the same community
This is a weird reversal from NatesNateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:21 pmBecause I was still on Zenge and the read's stale, but I don't know where I want to push yet.
Give me the elevator pitch on Scotty since you're there.
Is this still true now? I have them as neutrals
I think @santygrass linked the screenshot of final D1 votespyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:11 pm votecount with ~5 hours until EOD
Animal Midwife - 0 votes, Voters: None
Creature - 2 votes, Voters: Mayo the Mayo, falcon45ca
Dennis - 2 votes, Voters: Animal Midwife, Scotty
DrWilgy - 0 votes, Voters: None
dyachei - 0 votes, Voters: None
falcon45ca - 1 votes, Voters: Zenge
genny - 0 votes, Voters: None
Kate - 0 votes, Voters: None
Marmot - 0 votes, Voters: None
Mayo the Mayo - 0 votes, Voters: None
mightyrunner7 - 0 votes, Voters: None
miranda920 - 3 votes, Voters: santygrass, DrWilgy, SportPonies
NateTheLesser - 1 votes, Voters: Creature
Neon - 0 votes, Voters: None
potentialsheltervet - 0 votes, Voters: None
pyxxy - 1 votes, Voters: genny
S~V~S - 0 votes, Voters: None
santygrass - 0 votes, Voters: None
SARdoghandler - 0 votes, Voters: None
Scotty - 2 votes, Voters: Neon, Sloonei
Seanzie - 0 votes, Voters: None
Sloonei - 0 votes, Voters: None
SportPonies - 2 votes, Voters: pyxxy, Seanzie
Zenge - 1 votes, Voters: NateTheLesser
No vote / Unvote - 0 votes, Voters: None
Sleep / No Elimination 0
Not voting atm:
Dennis
dyachei
Kate
Marmot
mightyrunner7
miranda920
potentialsheltervet
S~V~S
SARdoghandler
Interesting point about mighty because i have him in neutralsDennis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:57 pmAhfalcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:49 pmDennis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:20 pmWhen did you say this because I don't think you haveSportPonies wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:49 amStop twisting my words. I said you’re being weird. Not for asking. You’re just being weird. In general.Zenge wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:47 amI asked you why you were voting for Miranda and you freaked out and said I was being weird for daring to ask “why”?SportPonies wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:45 amAre you intentionally pretending you don’t know the definition of defensive?
That’s defensive.SportPonies wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 amI already said I thought her tone was sus. I don’t just snapvote someone I like for funsies unless it’s dubzZenge wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:04 amWhy are you even voting for Miranda? What’s your endgame here?SportPonies wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:48 am If I unvoted right now it could be a three way tie :heckyeah:
Why you bein weird?
First time was here I believe, couple other times afterward
I was gonna say ponies felt scummy because that post felt like OMGUS but I guess I missed that
(in response to your previous post):
Seanzie is townlean because an interesting pattern I've noticed is that he doesn't say "I'd elim this." nearly as often, or at all, as scum than he does town
One thing that caught my eye was the sudden swooning over mightyrunner? Like sure they looked towny I guess, but there was like 3 to 5 people who all townread them and it felt like there had to be a wolf in there trying to hide amongst the crowd
That argument doesn’t look distracting to me and the peacemaker role is what’s actually making me waryMayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:55 pmGet out of here with your calm and reasoning.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 pmI think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:00 pm You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.
I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.
Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.
I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.
I still expect an answer here.
You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.
Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.
I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.
Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.
