Search found 1563 matches

by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:44 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Delta, why didn't you vote Day 7? I froze up because I wasnt sure if voting Davos was the right move but thought Windward towntold near EOD so I was stuck kinda. decision paralysis I guess & it's silly, I shouldnt have, but it caught me because i thought their final posts EOD were townie Pretty...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:40 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Delta, why didn't you vote Day 7? I froze up because I wasnt sure if voting Davos was the right move but thought Windward towntold near EOD so I was stuck kinda. decision paralysis I guess & it's silly, I shouldnt have, but it caught me because i thought their final posts EOD were townie Pretty...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:35 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Epignosis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:34 pm Delta, why didn't you vote Day 7?
I froze up because I wasnt sure if voting Davos was the right move but thought Windward towntold near EOD so I was stuck kinda. decision paralysis I guess

& it's silly, I shouldnt have, but it caught me because i thought their final posts EOD were townie
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:17 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

DrWilgy wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:15 pm
WindwardAway wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:06 pm I *still* think Davos's vote didn't count, regardless of what the OP says about ties
You can get on my case for it, it's fine, but I don't believe that was randomized
Sure would be a shame if ties were arbiter controlled right? :dark:
:blink:
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:05 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Ties will not result in no-elimination ?? Ohhhhh Idk how I missed that 😅 ok then, so you think the vote randed? did you think ties were a no vote? !_! No, but I thought there would be some kind of host message about the vote randing if it was a rand Isn't there usually something about that? eh I as...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:59 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I dunno I'm focusing too much on puppet mech I'm unsure about considering the time I've had in this has been so limited On a broader scale, I do think final landlord lies within you two but like. If Davos was tied to a dead mafia, I dont know where that really leaves me? I dont think it's both of y...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:57 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

OH shit it did rand as well I thought it was a 3:2 vote or something

fuck okay now I'm following why Wilgy mentioned stalling nvm
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:56 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

WindwardAway wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:56 pm
Delta wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:27 pm
Scotty wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:43 pm Ties will not result in no-elimination
??
Ohhhhh
Idk how I missed that 😅 ok then, so you think the vote randed?
did you think ties were a no vote? !_!
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:52 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I dunno I'm focusing too much on puppet mech I'm unsure about considering the time I've had in this has been so limited On a broader scale, I do think final landlord lies within you two but like. If Davos was tied to a dead mafia, I dont know where that really leaves me? I dont think it's both of y...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:45 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I dunno I'm focusing too much on puppet mech I'm unsure about considering the time I've had in this has been so limited On a broader scale, I do think final landlord lies within you two but like. If Davos was tied to a dead mafia, I dont know where that really leaves me? I dont think it's both of y...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:40 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

The issue with Davos = Brad is it would only be him or one of you, and I think if it's him he outright doesnt use the puppet after death if he isnt achieving anything with it.
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:37 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I dunno I'm focusing too much on puppet mech I'm unsure about considering the time I've had in this has been so limited On a broader scale, I do think final landlord lies within you two but like. If Davos was tied to a dead mafia, I dont know where that really leaves me? I dont think it's both of yo...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:34 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

DrWilgy wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:30 pm
Delta wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:29 pm
DrWilgy wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:28 pm
Delta wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:27 pm
Scotty wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:43 pm Ties will not result in no-elimination
??
oh goddammit
LMAO

I was worried you were getting into mech hinting territory which is why I said to drop it but

if not, why would that be a stall play if it doesnt work?
No, I'm just exhausted lol.
:consoling:
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:29 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

DrWilgy wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:28 pm
Delta wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:27 pm
Scotty wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:43 pm Ties will not result in no-elimination
??
oh goddammit
LMAO

I was worried you were getting into mech hinting territory which is why I said to drop it but

if not, why would that be a stall play if it doesnt work?
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:27 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Scotty wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:43 pm Ties will not result in no-elimination
??
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:23 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Landlord WWA COULD have moved off Davis thinking a tie between themselves would cause a no yeet. WWA only doubling down on the "Davos doesn't count" in regards to my behavior when that didn't work unexpectedly. Opener says ties arent no votes, so I'm not sure how that would really work I'...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:22 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I didn't think sock rules had standardization. Most of the times socks are utilized as aliases for meta-less games. Makes sense Going off how Davos voted though, it seems their votes were either all town or at least all non-Landlord votes I dont think they break that chain by voting WWA, especially...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:21 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Landlord WWA COULD have moved off Davis thinking a tie between themselves would cause a no yeet. WWA only doubling down on the "Davos doesn't count" in regards to my behavior when that didn't work unexpectedly. Opener says ties arent no votes, so I'm not sure how that would really work I'...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:19 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I didn't think sock rules had standardization. Most of the times socks are utilized as aliases for meta-less games. Makes sense Going off how Davos voted though, it seems their votes were either all town or at least all non-Landlord votes I dont think they break that chain by voting WWA, especially...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:18 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Landlord WWA COULD have moved off Davis thinking a tie between themselves would cause a no yeet. WWA only doubling down on the "Davos doesn't count" in regards to my behavior when that didn't work unexpectedly. Opener says ties arent no votes, so I'm not sure how that would really work
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:17 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I dunno It feels. Odd I guess to assume the Puppet doesnt die with the host. Puppets dying independently of the host makes some sense since it's kinda like. Taking the sock off your hand I guess? But it shouldnt then rip your arm off and walk around sentient on its own if you die. That's how I view ...
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:10 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

DrWilgy wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:09 pm
Delta wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:08 pm blink blink to Wilgy selfing uh

lol?
It's just because there was no unvote.

I had realized where my read of WWA was wrong.
?_?

how so?

I'm p sure the Davos flip indicates that one of you is final landlord lol
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:08 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

blink blink to Wilgy selfing uh

lol?
by Delta
Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:08 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

I don't see why the idea of Brad being Davos should be so easily discounted. After all, it has been shown twice that socks don't die at the same time as their owners. Doing the bare minimum to avoid spewing is something I would easily see Brad doing. Still, if there is a remaining landlord, that wo...
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:23 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

DrWilgy wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:16 pm So they were town and wolf aligned but didn't count?
possibly? At least I think so

They were tied to people that were parts of town/wolf but werent separate players themselves, hence 'by proxy'
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:09 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Night 7]

To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us. Brad being Davos makes enough sense. I do think Wilgy is likely the remaining Arbiter though Ah shit, I forgot that the sock p...
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:13 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

Epignosis wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:17 pm Delta's most likely Landlord.

Wilgy is on the other team.
I dont think I can be off mech?

Davos flipped Landlord-aligned & I really disagree with the idea that the person controlling Davos is dead here lol
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:11 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 3]

of our thread, I feel most confident in LC / Abbi / Sloonei / Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/ TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon / Sig . if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident. From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilg...
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:10 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped t...
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:01 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

that was

the one townread I had off kills

MAN.
by Delta
Sun Feb 18, 2024 11:56 am
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 8]

S~V~S wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:59 pm Sig has died
:solitary:
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:48 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

The main drawback on voting Davos is that I dont think the puppet counts for parity, and that there isnt some sort of lover mech with Davos & their player, assuming they're attached to someone so even if they are a wolf puppet, do we gain anything? I hope so but I have doubts as well ;_; Scrappy...
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:48 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

Ignoring the sock we’re at 4-1-1 If we misvote today and have 1 night kill then we’ve still got a final phase. Also the flip side with my Wilgy read is he could still be mafia just landlord. So there’s that I'm still finding it unwise to ignore the sock. I'm kinda at this point as well even though ...
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:18 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

This is all completely ignoring the nutella kill fwiw I don't know that it's worth reading into anymore, cause it's all wifom at this point. Whoever made the kill obviously made a good choice because there is still no consensus today. I think for the sake of not going in circles I should probably d...
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:06 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

If I take my two roles for the wolf that makes that NK, it takes out.. sig & myself I guess? Which doesnt break down much, but I dont think sig made that NK at least given the spot he's in It's just annoying trying to work out who made that kill anyway because it could be one on either side of t...
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:01 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

Decoding the NK gives me such a headache because I keep going in circles because of it ;_;
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:14 am
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

Wow, the ping worked xD Any thoughts on who you'll be voting today yet? Good timing \o/ havent had the chance to check in until now I saw the kill so ?_? unsure, I do want to run through things a bit first, because to me the kill either 1.) indicates one/both of you/Wilgy are mafia, or 2.) indicate...
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:01 am
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

WindwardAway wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:58 am @Delta whatever happened to the rest of the Western wolf ISOs?
i'll get back to these \o/
by Delta
Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:00 am
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 7]

hihi o/

sorry for absense yesterday, have been p busy, will be here on and off from now until eod ;_;
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:00 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

leetic wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:59 pm
WindwardAway wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:59 pm I do see the second D4 vote now, btw, and Davos dug a hole (which makes sense since scrappy could too)
That's proof that they count: Scrappy's hole killed them
i miss scrappy can we trade out the puppets
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:00 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

what actually is stopping us from voting davos btw Nothing tbh But if it's a player listed as playing in the game, then whatever Davos is likely doesn't count toward parity, so we'd get their flip but it probably equates to a no-lunch If they're a wolf, they have to count as that vote could help co...
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:57 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

what actually is stopping us from voting davos btw Nothing tbh But if it's a player listed as playing in the game, then whatever Davos is likely doesn't count toward parity, so we'd get their flip but it probably equates to a no-lunch If they're a wolf, they have to count as that vote could help co...
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:55 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

Epignosis wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:55 pm Y'all spoke that bitch into existence.
oops
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:54 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

like i understand theyre probably self resolving but like

what is the worst that could happen voting davos
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:54 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

what actually is stopping us from voting davos btw
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:53 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

Davos wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:52 pm Arrr

[VOTE: Nutella ] aubergine
oh dear
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:51 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

I felt confident earlier that we would win this game, regardless of whether I get yeeted today or not, because I was shutting out any paranoia about uneven wolf distributions. So I wasn't concerned at all with it, and I figured I had it coming after I pushed Nook way harder than anyone else yesterd...
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:49 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

WindwardAway wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:48 pm I thought I had a gotcha on Radishes earlier today and then sorta dropped it but kept it in the back of my mind.
I think his exit is townier than not, but it's all WIFOM in the end. And Wilgy has done enough that I don't want to vote him anymore.
what was the gotcha?
by Delta
Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:44 pm
Forum: Previous Sit Downs
Topic: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]
Replies: 3227
Views: 47496

Re: Game of Champions- Merged Thread [Day 6]

WindwardAway wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:43 pm My gut tells me a wolf wouldn't self-vote here, but considering the self-votes don't count I'm just gonna assume it isn't anything worth factoring in
even without the self vote he's still v much dead with current wagon composition

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