The Syndicate

[VOTE: ender ] aubergine lmao I literally just woke up

I'm so dumb idk why me in bed being asleep is what it took to process this

all day I've been like "there's a reason enders checks are so fake, I just can't remember"

it's cause making checks like that is ideal cause it opens him to any available option

like if he red checks not me in that situation his argument moves from just tess is a wolf to I'm a wolf AND with his check which is harder to convince people on

I feel so dumb for taking so long to put this into words as to why his stuff about "I wouldn't give these checks as a wolf" is bullshit

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:24 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:22 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:21 am Do I?

Really?

All I need to do is build a team where you're confident they win if you sac yourself.

if there's a more sacrificial wolf than me I just tell them to claim and what to claim

Obviously not.

Obviously because I'm not a wolf

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:21 am Do I?

Really?

All I need to do is build a team where you're confident they win if you sac yourself.

if there's a more sacrificial wolf than me I just tell them to claim and what to claim

Regardless of all this you still imo need to build a team with me where I'm the most sacrificial wolf

Which just isn't a thing

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:16 am Tbh if you got tracked you actually out both claims which is one goal of your play.

Not hitting Parity cop doesn't matter because you out cop via cc.

Parity cop doesn't claim if I get into a CC with the tracker before that

I really don't think anyone should disbelieve my claim considering that fact tbh

the conditions for a wolf claim to work here are just

Not gonna happen

Hit the parity cop in my difference

Wasn't tracked once despite being PoE

Y'know

All of it

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:06 am Tess, did you actually just claim as roleblocker.

my Wilgy check was n1 and he got blocked n2, so nope

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:54 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:52 am Mafia are put in a pretty bad position if Tess is mafia and doesn't net the parity cop in her difference check claim.

You agree with this, Ender?

There's also the fact that if I got tracked either night I could simply be CC'd by the tracker

It's an awful claim

btw too with my position in the game overall, I think it's a reasonable assumption that it was pretty likely I had been tracked at some point

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:55 am If they lose it does put her team in a worse position, however Tess isn't one that would go into a CC claim thinking she'll lose.

I mean I still am worried I'm gonna die today tbh

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:52 am Mafia are put in a pretty bad position if Tess is mafia and doesn't net the parity cop in her difference check claim.

You agree with this, Ender?

There's also the fact that if I got tracked either night I could simply be CC'd by the tracker

It's an awful claim

I kinda think the reason for Ender's cc on me was just cause he thought it would be fun, lmao

lmao yeah sure sure

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:40 am "I would never play like this as wolf" both PR ccs expound, gladly talking about how they wouldn't do it.

mines actually true tho

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:37 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:36 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:35 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:32 am I don't put any weight on the "I could do better as wolf" argument.

I believe in logic. I don't think either of you decided to make a weird and unnecessary decision as a wolf because YOLO. There is a solid rational justification for whatever it is, and I intend to find it.

it's not just "I could do better as a wolf"

It's that if I'm a wolf claiming like this it was PLANNED

And that I have zero reason to affect my game in that way

This wine is delicious.

do you deny that the way I've played lines up to the game a cop would play?

Well, you're not a cop so yes.

But you are putting the perfect model image of a cop into play to make everyone think you are.

then it's not 'wine'

it's true that to be a wolf I deteriorated my game in order to claim cop--that doesn't make sense

It only does as a cop

cause I am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:35 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:32 am I don't put any weight on the "I could do better as wolf" argument.

I believe in logic. I don't think either of you decided to make a weird and unnecessary decision as a wolf because YOLO. There is a solid rational justification for whatever it is, and I intend to find it.

it's not just "I could do better as a wolf"

It's that if I'm a wolf claiming like this it was PLANNED

And that I have zero reason to affect my game in that way

This wine is delicious.

do you deny that the way I've played lines up to the game a cop would play?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:32 am I don't put any weight on the "I could do better as wolf" argument.

I believe in logic. I don't think either of you decided to make a weird and unnecessary decision as a wolf because YOLO. There is a solid rational justification for whatever it is, and I intend to find it.

it's not just "I could do better as a wolf"

It's that if I'm a wolf claiming like this it was PLANNED

And that I have zero reason to affect my game in that way

that was after subbing in like day 4 to a role madness guillo game with a wolf team in shambles, btw. My WiM couldn't have been lower. Alison saw Mac talk about it in our GC

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:29 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:27 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:24 am I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

I mean, even if you're caught up in something relating to the claims this day phase, my entire play this game lines up to being a cop, including claiming outright SoD

Like

The possibility of me being a wolf here is that I pulled scum reads on purpose day 2 and some day 1 just to claim cop, because you should KNOW I can do better even with like 5% than I did those days as a wolf

It's my duty as your CC to point out "I could do better as wolf" is a WIFOM-y statement that often comes from wolves.

I mean it's literally true

The wolf game I played before constant vigilance I didn't really want to play but I posted like a single wall that I spent 30 minutes reading to make that got the entire lobby to town read me

I'm a smooth talker baybee

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:29 am Quick question: why out the red check immediately? Most cops wait until the middle of the day to generate spew, yeah?

cause it's not a red check, it's a difference. I don't really think I need to wait to give a difference and I wanted them to fight/people to weigh in lol

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:26 am I suppose I should say that if either of you is VT doing the stupidest FPS ever now would be a good time to fess up.

oh, I was hoping you'd give me a bit longer

I'm not rescinding it's a joke

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:24 am I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

I mean, even if you're caught up in something relating to the claims this day phase, my entire play this game lines up to being a cop, including claiming outright SoD

Like

The possibility of me being a wolf here is that I pulled scum reads on purpose day 2 and some day 1 just to claim cop, because you should KNOW I can do better even with like 5% than I did those days as a wolf

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:24 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:19 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:15 am Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

Well I know it's not to divert heat off me so you can scratch that argument if you intend tp convince me.

I don't think the PRs argument makes sense, if the real parity cop wasn't in the difference check they would immediately CC and Tess would get voted out and Parity Cop dies in the night, and we still have one more misexe before FX. It's not really worth it for the mafia to do that.

If you are town then...

Tess likes to really deep wolf so it's a bit odd.

Can't be to defend Wilgy because Wilgy is uncced tracker.

Only reason she would is if she was worried about PRs getting 3 checks while being unknown.

But that's kinda weak idk.

LMAO yeah I know it's weak bruh

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:12 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:09 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:07 am Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

You and I both know I respect you too much to believe that CCing you is ever going to be easier than CCing Wilgy lmao.

and I mean regarding this

People jumped onto Wilgy sure--I'd have to look at who that was--but imo he was still towny day 1. Like idk much about him but I liked his day 1 a decent bit and I don't think the expectation for Wilgy is just go "oop" and flop over and die. The reads on Wilgy can easily just be seen as a temporary drop off imo. Dizzy town read him, I did day 1, Alison did, etc. But the reads on me probably were gonna stick more. I mean, I don't know--this is easily a thought someone has though

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:11 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:07 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:05 am My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

I agree I don't really get it, but I don't really think you can explain why I'd kill nanook either

1. You had a reason to PR read Nanook. Idk why but I can't say for sure. I know I knew he wasn't PR but that's just WIFOM at this point.

2. Nanook and me find each other fairly reliably as t/t, especially after I've figured him D1. (For anyone calling this TMI I can link multiple quotes where Nanook himself says I have a very reliable read on him. It has been wrong occasionally, Smilies being the most egregious example, but I have a high hit rate on my Nanook read.)

3. Tess. You 100% make off-the-bat kills N1. Your kill on me when I was hard-sussed D1 in Ice-cream is a great example of this. Also the Nanook Kill is good WIFOM if both you AND Alison are scum together, as neither of you feel likely to make the kill.

1 doesn't particularly matter but I've seen nanook play PR and it's not that hard to tell. He literally claimed cop day 1 before cause he thinks open-PR'ing or whatever would be good, idc really, but

2 is ridiculous. I don't know what you having a good read on him should matter for anything--it's his read on you that would matter. Has he seen you wolf, even?

As for 3, I don't SPK day 1 if I can avoid it specifically because I don't want to, like, get scum read for not being SPK'd. But my kills are still pretty good imo. In constant vigilance my n1 was probably THE best kill we could make, disregarding even that it was Alexa. She was town read by everyone, scum read me, and scum read my partner who I took to lylo. It was just straight up the best kill. I killed you in my mantischora game becuase

1: you were the only person with meta on me. Killing you meant I could do whatever I wanted with the game
2: you were playing with me in another game I was town in at the same time where I was much more towny, and I didn't want you to be able to cross game read

I'm not scared of nanook at all. He's an easy ML. No one listens to his reads. etc etc

sigh

then some shit like "Ender thought it would be more fun to cc me"--it doesn't really particularly matter

I don't think his decision has no possible wolf motivation

It could be the above

It could simply be because he figured he can say "I would just cc Wilgy"

etc--it doesn't really matter to me

This is the same reason you would have believed Lag's claim in the PerC game Alison (unsure if you actually did as you were an SK), just because you can't directly find motivation for a decision you don't have all the knowledge about. In the case it probably being to look townier/look for the SK

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:07 am Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:05 am My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

I agree I don't really get it, but I don't really think you can explain why I'd kill nanook either

considering the validity of Alison saying Gavial could be a wolf for doing nothing but pushing townies in the world Alison is town

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:38 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:36 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:36 am

Wisp wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:33 am @EnderWiggin
page 2, you pushed on me because you believed I was shutting down town reads
do you think dismissing reads makes someone a wolf without context
Either way my abrasive nature probably scuffed my responses, since my attention was never to shut down reads, its only to express that I don't agree with them
and I didn't, I still think that Nanook as a wolf, would play the way he did

A wolf's goal is to keep the POE wide.

I've run into several wolves whose early play was to try and be reasonable townies who spent most of their time causing doubt in other people's reads rather than making their own. This is to keep the POE wide and undermine town solving. It can be quite an effective subversive tactic if not addressed early.

I thought that's what you were doing.

do I do that?

Not really? if you're gonna play the solvy card you create your own POEs and just try and push town in a direction.

I don't think I've seen you play solve-wrecking in the way I thought Wisp was doing.

Maybe I should try that

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:36 am

Wisp wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:33 am @EnderWiggin
page 2, you pushed on me because you believed I was shutting down town reads
do you think dismissing reads makes someone a wolf without context
Either way my abrasive nature probably scuffed my responses, since my attention was never to shut down reads, its only to express that I don't agree with them
and I didn't, I still think that Nanook as a wolf, would play the way he did

A wolf's goal is to keep the POE wide.

I've run into several wolves whose early play was to try and be reasonable townies who spent most of their time causing doubt in other people's reads rather than making their own. This is to keep the POE wide and undermine town solving. It can be quite an effective subversive tactic if not addressed early.

I thought that's what you were doing.

do I do that?

I am with Mizery



(bit of self meta there)

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:25 am Just going to put it out there:
Anyone who spends time going "No way I'd be paired with x" isn't going to get anywhere with me just because self-meta is a slippery slope.

Prove your innocence with your solving of the gamestate and alignments.

I'm not with Ender (sorry for self meta)

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:19 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:16 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:15 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:11 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:04 am fun fact btw: i am spewed not w/w with anyone but wilgy, falcon and tess. Wilgy is tracker, does anyone think it's me/tess/falcon?

why aren't you with Ender

I am voting him and not you when I could easily get you killed if I was scum with ender

I don't think you can really hold a town perspective considering I could just not claim if you were town and push you instead, with people like gavial etc wanting you dead

I mean, maybe, but also you bussing isn't that unlikely because you need town cred anyways as a wolf

It's an unnecessary bus because there would be zero accountability if I sided with Ender. I already scumread you and townread him from yesterday, and people like Gavial are always willing to vote there to help me out.

eh maybe, I'll consider it.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:15 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:11 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:04 am fun fact btw: i am spewed not w/w with anyone but wilgy, falcon and tess. Wilgy is tracker, does anyone think it's me/tess/falcon?

why aren't you with Ender

I am voting him and not you when I could easily get you killed if I was scum with ender

I don't think you can really hold a town perspective considering I could just not claim if you were town and push you instead, with people like gavial etc wanting you dead

I mean, maybe, but also you bussing isn't that unlikely because you need town cred anyways as a wolf

the most important poet to be or not to be with

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:04 am fun fact btw: i am spewed not w/w with anyone but wilgy, falcon and tess. Wilgy is tracker, does anyone think it's me/tess/falcon?

why aren't you with Ender

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:55 pm

tessepia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:53 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:53 pm man the ender series was good, thank god it was written by hatsune miku instead of some weirdo that posts homophobic propaganda

yeah now I want to read it again

Have you read the shadow books

yeah, i enjoyed the weird alien colony sequels more than shadow though

idk if I read that one

I liked the book where they were all living on earth fighting wars against each other doe, the ones after were okay

My favorite in the series is xenocide though

not actually but I'd like to think he would

I bet nanook would town read me for this conversation if he was alive

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:53 pm man the ender series was good, thank god it was written by hatsune miku instead of some weirdo that posts homophobic propaganda

yeah now I want to read it again

Have you read the shadow books

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:52 pm I think bean is smart in a different way than I am

maybe but he's still a vibe

maybe bean @Alison

though Graff can work

Who am I

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:46 pm which ender's game character do you think I am tess

I haven't read it for like 5 years, but let me see

Mizery wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:45 pm tess who tf is bonzo and why r u getting naked with ender in a shower

Ender Wiggin's bully

They got naked in the shower cause idk he Bonzo ganked em in the bathroom

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:42 pm

tessepia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:40 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:40 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:38 pm Anyway [VOTE: EnderWigging] aubergine

Am I

Wigging

You out?

=P

this is just like when Bonzo got naked with Ender in the shower

Am i a vicious bully who gets murdered by a 6 year old now

I'll be Bonzo, I'm in the cc after all

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:40 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:38 pm Anyway [VOTE: EnderWigging] aubergine

Am I

Wigging

You out?

=P

this is just like when Bonzo got naked with Ender in the shower

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:32 pm It's on town to find other town, even town that don't act like town.

Unless someone is actively trying to be flipped (which LC wasn't) then for them to be flipped town players have to make a mistake.

I will always believe it's the duty of the people on town side to get it right.

what about if I say part of my vote on him was annoyance all he was doing was AtE'ing a lot

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:34 pm

tessepia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:30 pm I think wolf Alison would do more to try and, say, save face, here. Like she's just saying "yeah I killed a town lol fk him," rather than kinda trying to wash her hands of it. Mehh, I didn't like how she wanted to 'fall on the sword,' but I think her attitude about BK is towny atm

if im ever going to lock town!Alison, reasoning like this wouldn't even a blip in my thoughts as to why

I never said it was lock town, lmao, I'm just thinkin

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:32 pm

tessepia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:27 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:25 pm @tessepia
would you consider yourself a good PR hunter?

I'd say I'm decent. Not amazing but I think I hit PR's more often than not as a wolf. That being said I think going for kills like Nanook are really bad who is ONLY a good kill if a PR, and bad otherwise, especially night 1.

man that whole coincidence thing has me thinking
but man you creating a thunderdome as a wolf, and outting both our PRs
logically speaking most town always votes the CCer

it seems completely redundant, because if you already big brained the PRs, you just kill one and roleblock the other
not to mention your wolf game consists of you actually pushing narratives, here, I can see semblances of it, trying to kill Dizzy
off weak reasoning, but wolf you probably doesn't need to do a lot if town is already gutting themselves, but ya there isn't much of you trying to control the game
and you playing this way would put you in the limelight, when you don't really need to be?

I mean, yeah. I just kill one of them if I think they're a PR lmao