The Syndicate

sig, I still have to look at what you wrote again about MM. While I'm doing that, be a dear and look at what I wrote about my dear.

Elohcin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Elohcin wrote:@Epi - about the wilgy and MM Sir curse. I can see wilgy coming up with it b/c he is a bit zany. I don't see MM as that zany.
I don't regard the "Sir" curse as especially zany, but I do think MM can be about as zany as Wilgy.

However it wasn't just the Sir curse in context. LC's idea was that I personally would curse you (the teammate) for "triple WIFOM."

Spoiler: show
Long Con wrote:Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.
This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.
It was bizarre to see you say you could see Wilgy doing this over MM when the constant in question was you (i.e., the teammate).

Anyway...

The reason I asked about MM and Wilgy is that MM is alive and Wilgy is dead, and I consider them more or less equally zany.

In your post, you said:

Elohcin wrote:I'm not sure about MM, but wilgy for sure. Was he alive at that point? If so...I can try to do one of those ISO things on him today after the kids are done with school. Maybe it will further support my suspicions of Dom J/k. Or am I?!
This implies that you know Wilgy was bad.

The Hook-Handed Man – He may discover the identity of a dead player every night.
Mafias with this ability are generally eager to learn the role of the person they killed. And guess what?

14. Wilgy - killed by Count Olaf Night 3

That means Wilgy would be checked Night 4.

It's Day 5.

Tell me- did you throw Glorfindel's replacement under the bus?
You specifically asked about MM and Wilgy...that is why I a referred to those two people. I don't see how you think I that means I know wilgy is bad. I thought you were trying to imagine a scenario where either mm or wilgy was bad and I simply said I can see wilgy coming up with the Sir curse, but not mm. I guess I just don;t see mm as zany as wilgy. And I wasn't just talking about the Sir thing in and of itself. I was talking about what LC mentioned...the triple WIFOM thing.

I did not throw Sprit (glorf's replacement) under the bus. I am not the Hook-Handed man. Why would I throw a teammate under the bus like that? If I were bad, I would want to keep my teammates, not get rid of them.

I don't know why you would volunteer to do "one of those ISO things" on Wilgy. I have never seen you attempt one of those.

Why would you choose Wilgy over anybody else to analyze? There's a lot of dead people who have been killed by civilians. Any of those could be mafia. Wilgy: The guy you say is zanier than MM. What would you even hope to attain from reading his (super zany) posts? And how would that help you understand Dom? Wilgy mentioned Dom twice. Once when Dom had seven votes, and once to say "I don't trust Jack. I didn't trust Jack before the Dom thing."

You think Wilgy (or his team) "Sir cursed" you and that was "triple WIFOM?" Again, you're the constant in Long Con's theory. For that to be true, Wilgy would have to be your teammate.

I still like my theory about the dead checker though. That's just too many damn coincidences lined up in a row.

Elohcin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Damn it, Eloh hurry up with that laundry and bathing those kids!
I'm SUPERWOMAN!!! (who is still folding laundry).

ANd now I have to go work on plating dinner/preparing drinks, etc.

Epi, what did you want to hear from me? I am guessing you are back in the thread now since you just finished dinner.

I'll get to it. See you at the table.

Elohcin wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Here is my post from yesterday. Nothing has changed for me. It seems from what I have read today that others are seeing Epi as bad too. I'll likely vote for Eloh or Epi today.

Sorsha wrote:I feel like there's something up between Epi and Eloh, I commented on this last night too but I'll go through it again.

Epi called out Golden, Quin and Eloh as bad. Talked about wanting to lynch Eloh even. Then night happened. Quin and Golden aren't lynch options and so Epi backs off the Eloh suspicion today. Sorry I'm on my phone right now or I'd pull quotes for this.

But I think it's a weird situation.

I could vote for either Epi or Eloh and probably will.
The only thing up between Epi and Elo is a big 'ol d*ck But don;t worry, it won't be up for long.

Whose is it?

I still want to hear what Eloh has to say first.

However, for those of you think we're teammates, lynch her first. If you lynch me first, how will she know where to vote the next day?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:If I get lynched, I hope Golden gets 95% of the votes tomorrow for his narrow-minded appraisal.
Why is my appraisal narrow-minded?
Because it is.
Well put.

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:Oh, in the mean time, if you think I'm bad, as you've claimed since day one, why have you still never voted for me... why don't you just get a move on and put your money where your mouth is?
I think lots of people are bad. I can't lynch them all at once, now can I? I just posted something substantial about Eloh and I want to hear what she has to say. Voting you early without hearing the cases on other people and weighing the evidence that comes in is so...well, narrow-minded.
So I've been bad since day one, but others just keep getting in the way first. Yeah. Five days of suspecting me, but still never enough for a vote... despite saying things like this:

Epignosis wrote:You are evil. I am coming for you.

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:I see no reason to hope I get lynched AFTER you die instead of before it, if you actually think I'm bad...
Just out of spite for your poor Day 5 performance.
This from the guy who said this about me:

Epignosis wrote:Some civilian you are if you are one.
Well here's something for you to add to how calculating I've been:

I no longer think you're bad. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I know your precise role.
If you make one more post about knowing something about other players but refuse to explain why I'm gonna vote you out of spite.

You claim this is so people won't spend the day arguing with you but they are already doing it because you won't stop being a cagey smartass about everything.

Put your cards on the table already.

No.

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:God help us if people think I'm not putting any thought into this.
A lot of effort, sure. But the apparent "thought" all seems very false to me.
If you are a civilian, you are wasting your evening gathering the masses in my direction.

And if I get lynched, and you see my role, I want you to look back over my posts and see how you didn't do any damn thinking.
See, here's the thing epi. You keep saying things like this, treating me as a civilian who will see the error of my ways later. But yet you claim you still see me as bad?

Where did I say I still see you as bad? I said the opposite a little while ago. Did you miss it? Here.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Top suspects:
Epi (Golden is my spirit poster, obv buddies with Eloh, framing and reframing but he can't change what actually happened, distancing, gets rude/vague when losing arguments)

Eloh (obv buddies w/Epi, lots of nonsensical "Oh, me and Epi wouldn't do that if we are scum so therefore we aren't" and suspected by most the players I trust)

MM (Sig's case looks decent....but the follow up lynch is potentially me and I'm not teamed with the marmot. In fact, if MM is a Trouper, I can't be on his team, along with DDL and INH. Anyway, I feel an Epi/Eloh lynch tells us more and I suspect them more and their scum team would theoretically have more members left alive. If Epi and Eloh are dead tomorrow or one flips not mafia, I'm happy to string up MM next.)

Want more from Sorsha but she doesn't make the list yet.
I'm not on a team with my wife. We've been bad together before. We're better than this.

And I'm not losing any arguments.
Tell me again about how Dom lie detected Quin.

I'm not allowed to talk about that anymore.

Damn it, Eloh hurry up with that laundry and bathing those kids!

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:God help us if people think I'm not putting any thought into this.
A lot of effort, sure. But the apparent "thought" all seems very false to me.

If you are a civilian, you are wasting your evening gathering the masses in my direction.

And if I get lynched, and you see my role, I want you to look back over my posts and see how you didn't do any damn thinking.

Golden wrote:Hey, I could see a world in which Elo is bad and you are not. I could see a world in which you are bad and she is not. Saying 95% was 95% hyperbole.

I'm also seriously considering the possibility you are an indy. Something you said made me think...

But anyway, I'm setting out my case on you for now, and I think it's pretty good at showing what I mean by you being all angles and no thought.

No thought.

God help us if people think I'm not putting any thought into this.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Top suspects:
Epi (Golden is my spirit poster, obv buddies with Eloh, framing and reframing but he can't change what actually happened, distancing, gets rude/vague when losing arguments)

Eloh (obv buddies w/Epi, lots of nonsensical "Oh, me and Epi wouldn't do that if we are scum so therefore we aren't" and suspected by most the players I trust)

MM (Sig's case looks decent....but the follow up lynch is potentially me and I'm not teamed with the marmot. In fact, if MM is a Trouper, I can't be on his team, along with DDL and INH. Anyway, I feel an Epi/Eloh lynch tells us more and I suspect them more and their scum team would theoretically have more members left alive. If Epi and Eloh are dead tomorrow or one flips not mafia, I'm happy to string up MM next.)

Want more from Sorsha but she doesn't make the list yet.

I'm not on a team with my wife. We've been bad together before. We're better than this.

And I'm not losing any arguments.

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:I don't tend to get recruited.
I'm not surprised. You'd probably end up lynching the people you're supposed to win with.
So you deleted the bit where I said what you said from my quote, and then said it again, just so you could have another snark at me?
Yep.

Just so everyone knows, there is a big smile on my face right now. I love playing this game with epi, even when I want him lynched.

Just about to do a more full description of my case on epi, so people can judge it for what it is.

Right back at you (even though I don't want you lynched).

And I'll be here to remind everyone how you're as arrogant as you are delusional.

I mean golly- that must be some serious angling going on there.

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:I don't tend to get recruited.
I'm not surprised. You'd probably end up lynching the people you're supposed to win with.
So you deleted the bit where I said what you said from my quote, and then said it again, just so you could have another snark at me?

Yep.

Golden wrote:I don't tend to get recruited.

I'm not surprised. You'd probably end up lynching the people you're supposed to win with.

Sorsha wrote:Here is my post from yesterday. Nothing has changed for me. It seems from what I have read today that others are seeing Epi as bad too. I'll likely vote for Eloh or Epi today.

Sorsha wrote:I feel like there's something up between Epi and Eloh, I commented on this last night too but I'll go through it again.

Epi called out Golden, Quin and Eloh as bad. Talked about wanting to lynch Eloh even. Then night happened. Quin and Golden aren't lynch options and so Epi backs off the Eloh suspicion today. Sorry I'm on my phone right now or I'd pull quotes for this.

But I think it's a weird situation.

I could vote for either Epi or Eloh and probably will.

Why should anything change for you? You haven't done anything here today.

sig wrote:
@DDL What do you think of my MM case? @EPI same to you.

I don't quite follow it. I'll have to try reading it again.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm cool with voting Epi or Elo. I don't trust them one bit. I agree completely with Golden about Epi's play this game consistently having an "angle".

Go back to being busy. You haven't even read the thread.

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:If I get lynched, I hope Golden gets 95% of the votes tomorrow for his narrow-minded appraisal.
Why is my appraisal narrow-minded?
Because it is.
Well put.

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:Oh, in the mean time, if you think I'm bad, as you've claimed since day one, why have you still never voted for me... why don't you just get a move on and put your money where your mouth is?
I think lots of people are bad. I can't lynch them all at once, now can I? I just posted something substantial about Eloh and I want to hear what she has to say. Voting you early without hearing the cases on other people and weighing the evidence that comes in is so...well, narrow-minded.
So I've been bad since day one, but others just keep getting in the way first. Yeah. Five days of suspecting me, but still never enough for a vote... despite saying things like this:

Epignosis wrote:You are evil. I am coming for you.

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:I see no reason to hope I get lynched AFTER you die instead of before it, if you actually think I'm bad...
Just out of spite for your poor Day 5 performance.
This from the guy who said this about me:

Epignosis wrote:Some civilian you are if you are one.

Well here's something for you to add to how calculating I've been:

I no longer think you're bad. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I know your precise role.

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I wish I knew the source material. I've got squirrels, meaty, beety, fixings, s'mores, stuffing, and nuts. I tried looking stuff up and got Lemony Snickey fan-fiction entitled, "I Kissed a Squirrel and I Liked it."

I'm not searching for another damn thing.
Epi, with the idea that you are on her team in mind, this seems so... intentionally said in order to look extra-super-much like you're not on that team.
I don't care how I look.

The squirrel comment made me look to see if there was a character who had some special connection to squirrels. Then I recalled Dom had said some other weird things. It didn't occur to me until after I posted that that it was a curse.
I already know how you are framing your posts for us; you made it clear for everyone the first time. Repetition is good to really get it in peoples' heads though.
So was I not supposed to respond to what you said?
I thought maybe you'd go with "Y'know, I see how that would look that way, I understand your point of view."

Then you don't know me.

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:If I get lynched, I hope Golden gets 95% of the votes tomorrow for his narrow-minded appraisal.
Why is my appraisal narrow-minded?

Because it is.

Golden wrote:Oh, in the mean time, if you think I'm bad, as you've claimed since day one, why have you still never voted for me... why don't you just get a move on and put your money where your mouth is?

I think lots of people are bad. I can't lynch them all at once, now can I? I just posted something substantial about Eloh and I want to hear what she has to say. Voting you early without hearing the cases on other people and weighing the evidence that comes in is so...well, narrow-minded.

Golden wrote:I see no reason to hope I get lynched AFTER you die instead of before it, if you actually think I'm bad...

Just out of spite for your poor Day 5 performance.

If I get lynched, I hope Golden gets 95% of the votes tomorrow for his narrow-minded appraisal.

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I wish I knew the source material. I've got squirrels, meaty, beety, fixings, s'mores, stuffing, and nuts. I tried looking stuff up and got Lemony Snickey fan-fiction entitled, "I Kissed a Squirrel and I Liked it."

I'm not searching for another damn thing.
Epi, with the idea that you are on her team in mind, this seems so... intentionally said in order to look extra-super-much like you're not on that team.
I don't care how I look.
I couldn't agree less with you. The fact that you seem to care very much how you look is exactly why I've come around to thinking you are bad.

"The fact that you seem"

Great fact there.

Golden wrote:Everything is carefully framed,

Nope.

Golden wrote:everything is angled.

Wrong.

Golden wrote:You have been exceedingly careful about the way you look.

If there is one adjective I would not use to describe myself this time out, it's "careful."

Golden wrote: You want logic on your side,

Always.

Golden wrote: you want rationality on your side,

Yep.

Golden wrote: everything you have done is not to solve the game

Now you're just being mean.

Golden wrote: but to make yourself appear to be the voice of reason.

Imagine that.

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I wish I knew the source material. I've got squirrels, meaty, beety, fixings, s'mores, stuffing, and nuts. I tried looking stuff up and got Lemony Snickey fan-fiction entitled, "I Kissed a Squirrel and I Liked it."

I'm not searching for another damn thing.
Epi, with the idea that you are on her team in mind, this seems so... intentionally said in order to look extra-super-much like you're not on that team.
I don't care how I look.

The squirrel comment made me look to see if there was a character who had some special connection to squirrels. Then I recalled Dom had said some other weird things. It didn't occur to me until after I posted that that it was a curse.
I already know how you are framing your posts for us; you made it clear for everyone the first time. Repetition is good to really get it in peoples' heads though.

So was I not supposed to respond to what you said?

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I wish I knew the source material. I've got squirrels, meaty, beety, fixings, s'mores, stuffing, and nuts. I tried looking stuff up and got Lemony Snickey fan-fiction entitled, "I Kissed a Squirrel and I Liked it."

I'm not searching for another damn thing.
Epi, with the idea that you are on her team in mind, this seems so... intentionally said in order to look extra-super-much like you're not on that team.

I don't care how I look.

The squirrel comment made me look to see if there was a character who had some special connection to squirrels. Then I recalled Dom had said some other weird things. It didn't occur to me until after I posted that that it was a curse.

This was all it took for you to vote sprityo after he replaced in for Glorfindel:

Elohcin wrote:
DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.
I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

Two minutes later:

Elohcin wrote:ooo, I just broke a three-way tie. I had no clue.

Elohcin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:What if I said I wanted to lynch Eloh instead?
I don't think that's a good idea, Sir.

Snow Dog wrote:I agree that Eloh has not said much and followd votes. Is that not because she is busy in RL, Rob?
I think I can answer for myself. Yes. We moved. My kids all had the stomach bug one after another. I had the stomach bug after them. I continued to unpack. I did a wedding cake order. Then we had my brother and his lovely family visit. Life has finally settled though. Today is my first day of winter break with no responsibilities outside or the normal mom/wife duties (and the wifely duties were taken care of this morning ). I am here to answer questions etc. I do believe I have done a pretty steller job keeping up during all my business. I suspected sprit/glorf correctly. I suspected Quin and now others seem to think he is bad too. I am not sure what I think of him anymore really. But at least it shows I wasn't off my rocker. I am catching up/reading through today's posts now. We'll see if I have anything to add.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.
Dude, I've been busy!! I haven't been able to take the full thread into account. BUT...I was right about Sprit and got no stinkin' credit for it. At this point, I have been using my experience of playing with these folks to decide if I think they may be good or bad. Now that I have time for Mafia...I can try to use the thread activity to understand what's what.

After last night's posts from Sir Epi, I am not sure of his position. I think he may be indy like whoever else it was that suggested it. I don;t see him acting like this as a civ or a baddie. His baddie game is a bit more calculated than this. His civ game is a more rational than he's been lately. Or....it could have just been the .

Elohcin wrote:@Epi - about the wilgy and MM Sir curse. I can see wilgy coming up with it b/c he is a bit zany. I don't see MM as that zany.

I don't regard the "Sir" curse as especially zany, but I do think MM can be about as zany as Wilgy.

However it wasn't just the Sir curse in context. LC's idea was that I personally would curse you (the teammate) for "triple WIFOM."

Spoiler: show

It was bizarre to see you say you could see Wilgy doing this over MM when the constant in question was you (i.e., the teammate).

Anyway...

The reason I asked about MM and Wilgy is that MM is alive and Wilgy is dead, and I consider them more or less equally zany.

In your post, you said:

Elohcin wrote:I'm not sure about MM, but wilgy for sure. Was he alive at that point? If so...I can try to do one of those ISO things on him today after the kids are done with school. Maybe it will further support my suspicions of Dom J/k. Or am I?!

This implies that you know Wilgy was bad.

The Hook-Handed Man – He may discover the identity of a dead player every night.

Mafias with this ability are generally eager to learn the role of the person they killed. And guess what?

14. Wilgy - killed by Count Olaf Night 3

That means Wilgy would be checked Night 4.

It's Day 5.

Tell me- did you throw Glorfindel's replacement under the bus?

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)
Unwillingness to back off you? I haven't said one word about you since Day began. What do you call that?
An angle. What, do you think I'm good now?
I didn't say I think you're good. But it's incorrect to say I have been unwilling to back off of you.
No, it just means you want to interpret things in your own favour again. I was talking about your read of me, not the number of posts you make.

Irony.

You're the one who is unwilling to consider that my (dynamic) opinion of Eloh is one of a civilian who is trying to figure her out. You're the one who has already voted for me. You're the one who thinks he already has my role pegged and has to get 2/3rds majority. I think you're just pissed because I ran you through the wringer and I won't apologize for doing that.

You're the rigid one. Not me. I haven't voted for you and haven't made up my mind where my vote will go. You're the one rocking the 95% sureness (but 100% wrongness).

Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)
Unwillingness to back off you? I haven't said one word about you since Day began. What do you call that?
An angle. What, do you think I'm good now?

I didn't say I think you're good. But it's incorrect to say I have been unwilling to back off of you.

Golden wrote:
sig wrote:MP vote for MM.

I'm building a case on him as we speak and it's huge it's great the best case this game has seen so far. There is no doubt in my mind MM is a member of the Troupe, if I'm wrong then I'd still bet he is bad, just bad for the other team.

linki: What no stop. Vote for MM.
Can't wait to hear your case, but I'm about 95% certain epi/eloh are a member of the other group. I think Epi is Esme as well and needs 2/3rds of the votes. But if it's you are right about MM and he goes down today, then you just continue your good play.

I hear the good-quality hanging rope is on sale for 5% off.

Elohcin wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Job interview today. Not gonna post until this afternoon.
good luck! What are you interviewing for?

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.
No. That's something MM or Wilgy would enjoy doing.
I'm not sure about MM, but wilgy for sure. Was he alive at that point? If so...I can try to do one of those ISO things on him today after the kids are done with school. Maybe it will further support my suspicions of Dom J/k. Or am I?!

What exactly could you see Wilgy enjoy doing?

Why could you see Wilgy doing it but you aren't sure about MM? What sets the two apart in your mind?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm still alive, huh...

This makes three people now who haven't posted today: Sorsha, Spacedaisy, and zebra. None of them are silenced by Mr. Poe.

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.
No.
I'm not even a Lie Detector and I'm calling it on this one. How would such a play not be enjoyable - especially if successful? Maybe tell the truth this time. Just admitting you would enjoy doing that isn't an admission that you did do it. The Epi doth protest too much, methinks.

No. It isn't creative. I would be having fun creating the curses and challenging people's ability to coherently communicate.

Long Con wrote:I've got another one, just for fun. This one, I feel is more of a doozy.

How does an information role sub back into a game after he dies? Maybe Dom 1.0 failed to send in a Lie Detect on both night 1 and 2. That's a way, and I don't think that happened. I don't think Dom, even if he didn't have the most time to post, would miss two extraordinarily powerful night power submissions in a row. He wasn't that out of the game.

Finding out someone lied, or finding out they told the truth, about something specifically chosen to be relevatory (not a word?) about their alignment... is important information, and it is information that Dom 2.0 could not un-know. He could agree to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, but it doesn't erase it.

If Dom 1.0 got info that was totally irrelevant to the game, giving him the ability to sub in on any team that needed it, then I move that this irrelevant knowledge be made public. Even if that knowledge is "Dom 1.0 didn't send in a PM either night", it's still something Dom knows and the rest of us don't know. The only way to maintain game integrity is to share it. Or lay out a point of view that shows me another way it could be, because I don't see it.

So... here's the way that I believe it happened. It's a way that avoids all this "awkwardness" and unbalanced knowledge. Dom was Count Olaf, and his secret is that, not only does he trick role checkers into thinking he's a Civ, but he has the 'Seemer' ability to fool the lynch as well. Dom appeared to be Josephine, and was not.

How do you let a baddie sub back into a game? Literally the only way is to put him back on his team. A dead baddie is able to fill the hole in the team that is an absent player.

Dom, I can see that there has been some stuff that irked you since you came back, and I don't want to upset you, I'm not trying to throw bullshit at you. The only reason I'm saying this is because it's the most logical way to explain how you were possibly able to sub in after being lynched as an information role. If I'm right, I'm sorry to have to be right like this, but, like a dead info role, I can't unknow what I think I know.

So there you go, depending on how right I am tonight, the Guardians and the Troupe both want me dead now. I doubt I would have lucked my way all the way through the game anyway. Good night!

I said that first.

Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)

Unwillingness to back off you? I haven't said one word about you since Day began. What do you call that?

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No. That's something MM or Wilgy would enjoy doing.

Long Con wrote:Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.
This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.

It may fit, but it isn't true.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?
Does anyone have a good reason to believe epi is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe that eloh is civilian?
I thought I did but confidence is fast eroding. Feels like Epi starts with conclusions like "Eloh is town" or "Quin and MarDom are scumbuddies" and then backs into the conclusions, making poor assumptions like "the scum wouldn't post restrict themselves so Eloh can't be on that scum team" or "Dom 1 lie detected Quin even though there were no useful lie detect posts prior to Day 1 and then Dom was MIA all of Night 2."

Additionally, his attacks on Quin and Golden do not ring true to me and he put forth the argument that ultimately got Snow Dog lynched.

(Epi will likely argue semantics about all of this but I'm not gonna play that game. I'm busy playing a different one.)

Eloh? No. No reason so far for me to believe she is town.

That's not what I did. I listed the premises that have to be true for a conclusion to be correct. That's quite different from believing the premises myself.

Golden wrote:I've not yet been persuaded to believe that Dom lded quin and is now lying about it.

I said at the start and I still believe that drawing conclusions about what Dom may or may not have done in a first life, that he can't answer to, that the host has deemed not to affect balance and asked us not to ask Dom about - this is very dangerous conduct.

Despite the host asking that we ask Dom no questions about his first life, epi pushes Dom on why his opinions have changed since his first life. This is inherently asking Dom to comment on his first life. I don't like it one bit. I don't think civilian epi tries to pressure people in places where he knows they can't give straight answers.

Epis been all about angles this game. The more I see of him the less I trust him. There is a dinstinct lack of open mindedness.

I agree with jack that quin and ddl aren't teamies. I think quin has defended his accusations well and I won't vote there.

I have liked doms responses today too. Candid, in the circumstances.

I don't intend to vote either today.

After DF posted, I revised my question to Dom.

I am still free to talk about Dom #1 because Dom #1 was a player who got lynched. And I will continue to do so because it is a piece of the puzzle.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:4/10.

Not a great look.

Still, I feel Dom's reactions have been pretty genuine.

@Epi

No. I'm confident you know exactly what I'm saying.

linki

Sorry it doesn't help you.
Let me help you out.

I don't know what your picture is saying.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Does anyone believe our civilian lie detector had anything on Quin before he went down?

What does your little picture demonstrate?

Use your words.
You're a smart fella who is experienced in playing fill in the implication. I'm sure you'll figure it out.
Does it have something to do with him not posting at all Night 2?
Ding ding ding.

Yeah, lie detectors only work on Night 2. Good show.

I'm going to bed.

I can already see that I'm voting one of Dom or Quin coming up. I don't see how both of them are civilians.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:4/10.

Not a great look.

Still, I feel Dom's reactions have been pretty genuine.

@Epi

No. I'm confident you know exactly what I'm saying.

linki

Sorry it doesn't help you.

Let me help you out.

I don't know what your picture is saying.

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Dead civilians in red. Civilians I don't think could explain why Dom is more suspicious of Eloh than Quin are crossed out. Feel free to object. could be

CIVVIES (13) Need both mafia teams dead to win.
Violet Baudelaire – Violet is a brilliant inventor. She will create a new device every night and send it to a player of her choice. Marco didn't do shit.

Klaus Baudelaire – Klaus loves to read, and is constantly learning. Twice in the game Klaus can send in a role and discover which player has that role. Marco didn't do shit.

Sunny Baudelaire – Sunny may be small, but her teeth are razor sharp. To defend her siblings, Sunny will kill every even night. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Mr. Poe – Mr. Poe is the executor of the Baudelaire estate, but even though he means well, he is unbelievably incompetent. Every night Mr. Poe will try to help a player. There is a 1/3 chance that player will be blocked, a 1/3 chance they will be silenced, and a 1/3 chance they will be killed. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Dr. Montgomery Montgomery – Uncle Monty is one of the few kind, reasonable people in this story. He will protect a player every night by hiding them in his Reptile Room.

Josephine Anwhistle – Aunt Josephine is afraid of nearly everything, but she's never afraid to correct someone's grammar. She will select a statement each night and discover whether it is true or false.

Hector – Hector is a friendly handyman. He may use his flying machine to stop one lynch and switch another.

Jerome Squalor – Jerome is a decent guy, but he's a total pushover at first. Every other day Jerome's vote will increase by 1.

Isadora Quagmire – BTSC with Duncan.

Duncan Quagmire – BTSC with Isadora. These two roles might have explained the Dom-Quin-Eloh relationship, but Dom and Quin have been bickering like hell. Crossing it out.

Hal – Hal works in the Library of Records. He will search the records to role check a player every night.

Justice Strauss – In the event of a tie, Justice Strauss' vote will be the tie breaker.

Kit Snicket - SECRET
Oooo, I like this angle. I'm gonna play too.

But see, I'm not too worried about Eloh vs Quin in Dom's eyes. I'm taking him at his word that Eloh seems more scummy because he's still going around saying that Quin's bad. Or else he's now scum and just views Eloh as an easier target cause she was runner up yesterday.

*takes out an eraser and a pen and marks up the above quote*

I can't see squat in this quote though. Posting.

I'm well aware what civilian roles Dom could be based on the fact that they're probably alive. That wasn't the point of the exercise.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Does anyone believe our civilian lie detector had anything on Quin before he went down?

What does your little picture demonstrate?

Use your words.
You're a smart fella who is experienced in playing fill in the implication. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

No. Your picture means nothing to me. Use your words.

When judging Dom, I would like people to consider Marco's lack of activity. Which civilian could Dom be?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Does anyone believe our civilian lie detector had anything on Quin before he went down?

What does your little picture demonstrate?

Use your words.

Dead civilians in red. Civilians I don't think could explain why Dom is more suspicious of Eloh than Quin are crossed out. Feel free to object.

CIVVIES (13) Need both mafia teams dead to win.
Violet Baudelaire – Violet is a brilliant inventor. She will create a new device every night and send it to a player of her choice. Marco didn't do shit.

Klaus Baudelaire – Klaus loves to read, and is constantly learning. Twice in the game Klaus can send in a role and discover which player has that role. Marco didn't do shit.

Sunny Baudelaire – Sunny may be small, but her teeth are razor sharp. To defend her siblings, Sunny will kill every even night. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Mr. Poe – Mr. Poe is the executor of the Baudelaire estate, but even though he means well, he is unbelievably incompetent. Every night Mr. Poe will try to help a player. There is a 1/3 chance that player will be blocked, a 1/3 chance they will be silenced, and a 1/3 chance they will be killed. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Dr. Montgomery Montgomery – Uncle Monty is one of the few kind, reasonable people in this story. He will protect a player every night by hiding them in his Reptile Room.

Josephine Anwhistle – Aunt Josephine is afraid of nearly everything, but she's never afraid to correct someone's grammar. She will select a statement each night and discover whether it is true or false.

Hector – Hector is a friendly handyman. He may use his flying machine to stop one lynch and switch another. This doesn't explain the Dom-Quin-Eloh relationship

Jerome Squalor – Jerome is a decent guy, but he's a total pushover at first. Every other day Jerome's vote will increase by 1. No evidence of this guy, and he doesn't explain anything.

Isadora Quagmire – BTSC with Duncan.

Duncan Quagmire – BTSC with Isadora. These two roles might have explained the Dom-Quin-Eloh relationship, but Dom and Quin have been bickering like hell. Crossing it out.

Hal – Hal works in the Library of Records. He will search the records to role check a player every night.

Justice Strauss – In the event of a tie, Justice Strauss' vote will be the tie breaker.

Kit Snicket - SECRET

Now I am going to look for civilian reasons to explain this behavior.

Dom One goes down screaming about Quin Day 3.

Quin votes Eloh Day 4.

Dom Two votes Eloh Day 5.

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